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Posted: 5/23/2016 7:15:56 PM EDT
[#1]
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 7:41:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down. That's kind of what I'm hoping to read, thank you Sir. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 8:20:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's kind of what I'm hoping to read, thank you Sir. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down. That's kind of what I'm hoping to read, thank you Sir. Yes, the clam shells are better... Reaction Rods and similar style tools can cause the indexing pin to shear in half and can also damage the indexing pin slot in the upper receiver. People will come along shortly to tell me and wagonwheel1 that we are wrong. 
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Posted: 5/23/2016 9:02:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, the clam shells are better... Reaction Rods and similar style tools can cause the indexing pin to shear in half and can also damage the indexing pin slot in the upper receiver. People will come along shortly to tell me and wagonwheel1 that we are wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down. That's kind of what I'm hoping to read, thank you Sir. Yes, the clam shells are better... Reaction Rods and similar style tools can cause the indexing pin to shear in half and can also damage the indexing pin slot in the upper receiver. People will come along shortly to tell me and wagonwheel1 that we are wrong. This. Others will be along to say we're wrong and say you can clamp all sorts of things to tighten it... |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 8:17:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Whats wrong with clamping the barrel?
Thats what I usually do 
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Posted: 5/24/2016 9:14:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down. I'd say that clamping the barrel is the 'best" way....it requires the least "extra" stuff to buy. But, clam-shells are good, as are reaction rods. They all work, and they all load the various parts the same, just in different ways. EDIT: When the nut is turned, there is a drag on the barrel extension flange from friction between the nut and the flange, and there is a drag on the upper receiver caused by the friction between the threads of the nut and the upper. It does not matter which you hold still, the friction and the drag are the same. The only thing different is which side of the slot in the upper receiver the index pin bears on... Short answer they are all the same.... |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 11:09:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say that clamping the barrel is the 'best" way....it requires the least "extra" stuff to buy. But, clam-shells are good, as are reaction rods. They all work, and they all load the various parts the same, just in different ways. EDIT: When the nut is turned, there is a drag on the barrel extension flange from friction between the nut and the flange, and there is a drag on the upper receiver caused by the friction between the threads of the nut and the upper. It does not matter which you hold still, the friction and the drag are the same. The only thing different is which side of the slot in the upper receiver the index pin bears on... Short answer they are all the same.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down. I'd say that clamping the barrel is the 'best" way....it requires the least "extra" stuff to buy. But, clam-shells are good, as are reaction rods. They all work, and they all load the various parts the same, just in different ways. EDIT: When the nut is turned, there is a drag on the barrel extension flange from friction between the nut and the flange, and there is a drag on the upper receiver caused by the friction between the threads of the nut and the upper. It does not matter which you hold still, the friction and the drag are the same. The only thing different is which side of the slot in the upper receiver the index pin bears on... Short answer they are all the same.... If all the methods were the same you would see just as many sheared index pins (if not more) from people using clam shell upper receiver vise blocks. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 7:11:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If all the methods were the same you would see just as many sheared index pins (if not more) from people using clam shell upper receiver vise blocks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down. I'd say that clamping the barrel is the 'best" way....it requires the least "extra" stuff to buy. But, clam-shells are good, as are reaction rods. They all work, and they all load the various parts the same, just in different ways. EDIT: When the nut is turned, there is a drag on the barrel extension flange from friction between the nut and the flange, and there is a drag on the upper receiver caused by the friction between the threads of the nut and the upper. It does not matter which you hold still, the friction and the drag are the same. The only thing different is which side of the slot in the upper receiver the index pin bears on... Short answer they are all the same.... If all the methods were the same you would see just as many sheared index pins (if not more) from people using clam shell upper receiver vise blocks. Well that's certainly an inconvenient truth. Until the advent of the reaction rod, sheared index pins were a rather rare occurrence. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 8:25:42 PM EDT
[#9]
I made my own barrel blocks from some scrap oak 10 years ago...still working to this day and have used them to assemble and disassemble probably close to a thousand uppers at this point.
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Posted: 5/24/2016 8:25:42 PM EDT
[#10]
double tap....again...WTF mouse!
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Posted: 5/24/2016 9:32:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well that's certainly an inconvenient truth. Until the advent of the reaction rod, sheared index pins were a rather rare occurrence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down. I'd say that clamping the barrel is the 'best" way....it requires the least "extra" stuff to buy. But, clam-shells are good, as are reaction rods. They all work, and they all load the various parts the same, just in different ways. EDIT: When the nut is turned, there is a drag on the barrel extension flange from friction between the nut and the flange, and there is a drag on the upper receiver caused by the friction between the threads of the nut and the upper. It does not matter which you hold still, the friction and the drag are the same. The only thing different is which side of the slot in the upper receiver the index pin bears on... Short answer they are all the same.... If all the methods were the same you would see just as many sheared index pins (if not more) from people using clam shell upper receiver vise blocks. Well that's certainly an inconvenient truth. Until the advent of the reaction rod, sheared index pins were a rather rare occurrence. Rather rare indeed. I do find it odd though that K1rodeoboater has had such good luck with barrel blocks since they stress the index pin in the same way that the Reaction Rod does but with the added possibility of potentially loosening the barrel extension. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 9:41:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rather rare indeed. I do find it odd though that K1rodeoboater has had such good luck with barrel blocks since they stress the index pin in the same way that the Reaction Rod does but with the added possibility of potentially loosening the barrel extension. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 10:50:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
luck, skill, or just a ton of experience but I've only ever sheared 2 pins off. Never had a barrel extension come loose. Have also used a clamshell for a long time too, no real issues there except mucking up the finish on a few uppers if I didn't put blue painters tape on certain areas. Got a plastiXrevolution block too now and I actually like it the most for flat tops. For A1/A2 uppers I usually go with the barrel blocks first and clamshell second....or whichever one I can find first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Rather rare indeed. I do find it odd though that K1rodeoboater has had such good luck with barrel blocks since they stress the index pin in the same way that the Reaction Rod does but with the added possibility of potentially loosening the barrel extension. luck, skill, or just a ton of experience but I've only ever sheared 2 pins off. Never had a barrel extension come loose. Have also used a clamshell for a long time too, no real issues there except mucking up the finish on a few uppers if I didn't put blue painters tape on certain areas. Got a plastiXrevolution block too now and I actually like it the most for flat tops. For A1/A2 uppers I usually go with the barrel blocks first and clamshell second....or whichever one I can find first. Interesting, do you remember what method you were using for the two pins you sheared? Was that with the barrel blocks? I have nothing against the PlastiXrevolution vise blocks, I think they're great. Never really had any finish damage using clam shell vise blocks either, nothing that can't be buffed out with CLP at least. I do think it's best to hold both the upper and barrel at the same time as with the Geissele Super Reaction Rod and Windham Weaponry barreling jig. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 11:48:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting, do you remember what method you were using for the two pins you sheared? Was that with the barrel blocks? I have nothing against the PlastiXrevolution vise blocks, I think they're great. Never really had any finish damage using clam shell vise blocks either, nothing that can't be buffed out with CLP at least. I do think it's best to hold both the upper and barrel at the same time as with the Geissele Super Reaction Rod and Windham Weaponry barreling jig. Would have been the barrel blocks or the clamshell. IDK if it matters but both barrels were surplus colt barrels, one was a M16A1 barrel the other was a 14.5" M4 barrel. Yeah the finish damage was just a few rub marks. After it happened a few times I just started taping the uppers in a few spots to prevent it. CLP did hide it pretty well but if you sprayed it down with carb cleaner you'd see them again. If you wanted to be super uber paranoid about barreling you could rig something up with 3 vises side by side. Use a reaction rod, a clamshell, and barrel blocks all at the same time. My general rule of thumb has been... Barrel blocks with for muzzle devices -- always Clamshell, and now receiver block, for barreling Barrel block for barreling odd shaped receivers that won't work in the clamshell Seems to have worked well for me. Smooth and steady pressure on the torque wrench, and absolutely no jerking/bouncing/cheater bars. If it doesn't come loose easily I bust out a torch and apply heat. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 12:49:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would have been the barrel blocks or the clamshell. IDK if it matters but both barrels were surplus colt barrels, one was a M16A1 barrel the other was a 14.5" M4 barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting, do you remember what method you were using for the two pins you sheared? Was that with the barrel blocks? I have nothing against the PlastiXrevolution vise blocks, I think they're great. Never really had any finish damage using clam shell vise blocks either, nothing that can't be buffed out with CLP at least. I do think it's best to hold both the upper and barrel at the same time as with the Geissele Super Reaction Rod and Windham Weaponry barreling jig. Would have been the barrel blocks or the clamshell. IDK if it matters but both barrels were surplus colt barrels, one was a M16A1 barrel the other was a 14.5" M4 barrel. Bill Geissele has said that the indexing pins can shear if they are of poor quality (not to spec) but I wouldn't expect Colt to be using index pins that were not made to spec. I have seen an index pin shear on a Bravo Company barrel as well when a Reaction Rod was used on it. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 1:05:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bill Geissele has said that the indexing pins can shear if they are of poor quality (not to spec) but I wouldn't expect Colt to be using index pins that were not made to spec. I have seen an index pin shear on a Bravo Company barrel as well when a Reaction Rod was used on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting, do you remember what method you were using for the two pins you sheared? Was that with the barrel blocks? I have nothing against the PlastiXrevolution vise blocks, I think they're great. Never really had any finish damage using clam shell vise blocks either, nothing that can't be buffed out with CLP at least. I do think it's best to hold both the upper and barrel at the same time as with the Geissele Super Reaction Rod and Windham Weaponry barreling jig. Would have been the barrel blocks or the clamshell. IDK if it matters but both barrels were surplus colt barrels, one was a M16A1 barrel the other was a 14.5" M4 barrel. Bill Geissele has said that the indexing pins can shear if they are of poor quality (not to spec) but I wouldn't expect Colt to be using index pins that were not made to spec. I have seen an index pin shear on a Bravo Company barrel as well when a Reaction Rod was used on it. And yet he sheared 2 pins using a clamshell or barrel block. I keep toying around with the idea of making a vise that holds a clamshell, reaction rod and barrel blocks in a lined up fassion. This way all three pieces are held in place just to end this argument once and for all. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 1:08:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you wanted to be super uber paranoid about barreling you could rig something up with 3 vises side by side. Use a reaction rod, a clamshell, and barrel blocks all at the same time. I've thought about doing that but it would be to much OCD even for me.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 1:17:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And yet he sheared 2 pins using a clamshell or barrel block. I keep toying around with the idea of making a vise that holds a clamshell, reaction rod and barrel blocks in a lined up fassion. This way all three pieces are held in place just to end this argument once and for all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting, do you remember what method you were using for the two pins you sheared? Was that with the barrel blocks? I have nothing against the PlastiXrevolution vise blocks, I think they're great. Never really had any finish damage using clam shell vise blocks either, nothing that can't be buffed out with CLP at least. I do think it's best to hold both the upper and barrel at the same time as with the Geissele Super Reaction Rod and Windham Weaponry barreling jig. Would have been the barrel blocks or the clamshell. IDK if it matters but both barrels were surplus colt barrels, one was a M16A1 barrel the other was a 14.5" M4 barrel. Bill Geissele has said that the indexing pins can shear if they are of poor quality (not to spec) but I wouldn't expect Colt to be using index pins that were not made to spec. I have seen an index pin shear on a Bravo Company barrel as well when a Reaction Rod was used on it. And yet he sheared 2 pins using a clamshell or barrel block. I keep toying around with the idea of making a vise that holds a clamshell, reaction rod and barrel blocks in a lined up fassion. This way all three pieces are held in place just to end this argument once and for all. I don't really think it is necessary to hold the upper, barrel and barrel extension but this idea is very much like your screen name.
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Posted: 5/25/2016 7:19:51 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet he sheared 2 pins using a clamshell or barrel block. I keep toying around with the idea of making a vise that holds a clamshell, reaction rod and barrel blocks in a lined up fassion. This way all three pieces are held in place just to end this argument once and for all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Interesting, do you remember what method you were using for the two pins you sheared? Was that with the barrel blocks? I have nothing against the PlastiXrevolution vise blocks, I think they're great. Never really had any finish damage using clam shell vise blocks either, nothing that can't be buffed out with CLP at least. I do think it's best to hold both the upper and barrel at the same time as with the Geissele Super Reaction Rod and Windham Weaponry barreling jig. Would have been the barrel blocks or the clamshell. IDK if it matters but both barrels were surplus colt barrels, one was a M16A1 barrel the other was a 14.5" M4 barrel. Bill Geissele has said that the indexing pins can shear if they are of poor quality (not to spec) but I wouldn't expect Colt to be using index pins that were not made to spec. I have seen an index pin shear on a Bravo Company barrel as well when a Reaction Rod was used on it. And yet he sheared 2 pins using a clamshell or barrel block. I keep toying around with the idea of making a vise that holds a clamshell, reaction rod and barrel blocks in a lined up fassion. This way all three pieces are held in place just to end this argument once and for all. <shrugs> shit happens. I haven't kept tabs on the "OMG I broke my index pin" threads, but I could see how using a reaction rod to install and remove a muzzle device could increase the stress on the index pin and upper receiver vs using barrel blocks. How much more that I don't know...I'm not a rocket surgeon physicist so it's above my pay grade. If they're doing it during a barrel install then maybe they're using a cheater bar, bouncing/jarring the torque wrench, or maybe they had crap luck and got a barrel with a softer barrel pin or a receiver with a small void. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 9:51:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<shrugs> shit happens. I haven't kept tabs on the "OMG I broke my index pin" threads, but I could see how using a reaction rod to install and remove a muzzle device could increase the stress on the index pin and upper receiver vs using barrel blocks. How much more that I don't know...I'm not a rocket surgeon physicist so it's above my pay grade. If they're doing it during a barrel install then maybe they're using a cheater bar, bouncing/jarring the torque wrench, or maybe they had crap luck and got a barrel with a softer barrel pin or a receiver with a small void. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting, do you remember what method you were using for the two pins you sheared? Was that with the barrel blocks? I have nothing against the PlastiXrevolution vise blocks, I think they're great. Never really had any finish damage using clam shell vise blocks either, nothing that can't be buffed out with CLP at least. I do think it's best to hold both the upper and barrel at the same time as with the Geissele Super Reaction Rod and Windham Weaponry barreling jig. Would have been the barrel blocks or the clamshell. IDK if it matters but both barrels were surplus colt barrels, one was a M16A1 barrel the other was a 14.5" M4 barrel. Bill Geissele has said that the indexing pins can shear if they are of poor quality (not to spec) but I wouldn't expect Colt to be using index pins that were not made to spec. I have seen an index pin shear on a Bravo Company barrel as well when a Reaction Rod was used on it. And yet he sheared 2 pins using a clamshell or barrel block. I keep toying around with the idea of making a vise that holds a clamshell, reaction rod and barrel blocks in a lined up fassion. This way all three pieces are held in place just to end this argument once and for all. <shrugs> shit happens. I haven't kept tabs on the "OMG I broke my index pin" threads, but I could see how using a reaction rod to install and remove a muzzle device could increase the stress on the index pin and upper receiver vs using barrel blocks. How much more that I don't know...I'm not a rocket surgeon physicist so it's above my pay grade. If they're doing it during a barrel install then maybe they're using a cheater bar, bouncing/jarring the torque wrench, or maybe they had crap luck and got a barrel with a softer barrel pin or a receiver with a small void. If a Reaction Rod is used to install or remove a muzzle device it would have no effect on the upper receiver or the index pin, you could potentially tighten or loosen the barrel extension if it was not torqued to spec. Barrel blocks are the best way to deal with muzzle devises and upper receiver vise blocks would be the worst. |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 12:44:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If all the methods were the same you would see just as many sheared index pins (if not more) from people using clam shell upper receiver vise blocks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down. I'd say that clamping the barrel is the 'best" way....it requires the least "extra" stuff to buy. But, clam-shells are good, as are reaction rods. They all work, and they all load the various parts the same, just in different ways. EDIT: When the nut is turned, there is a drag on the barrel extension flange from friction between the nut and the flange, and there is a drag on the upper receiver caused by the friction between the threads of the nut and the upper. It does not matter which you hold still, the friction and the drag are the same. The only thing different is which side of the slot in the upper receiver the index pin bears on... Short answer they are all the same.... If all the methods were the same you would see just as many sheared index pins (if not more) from people using clam shell upper receiver vise blocks. If the upper is held stationary, the nut will drag the barrel around, until it is stopped by the index pin. If the barrel is held stationary the nut will drag the upper around, until it is stopped by the index pin. If the extension is held stationary the nut will drag the upper around, until it is stopped by the index pin. Someone will have to show some actual data to prove that one is 'better' (or inferior) than another.... |
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Posted: 5/25/2016 2:02:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the upper is held stationary, the nut will drag the barrel around, until it is stopped by the index pin. If the barrel is held stationary the nut will drag the upper around, until it is stopped by the index pin. If the extension is held stationary the nut will drag the upper around, until it is stopped by the index pin. Someone will have to show some actual data to prove that one is 'better' (or inferior) than another.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll take the heat. The clam shell is still the best option for installing barrels .... hands down. I'd say that clamping the barrel is the 'best" way....it requires the least "extra" stuff to buy. But, clam-shells are good, as are reaction rods. They all work, and they all load the various parts the same, just in different ways. EDIT: When the nut is turned, there is a drag on the barrel extension flange from friction between the nut and the flange, and there is a drag on the upper receiver caused by the friction between the threads of the nut and the upper. It does not matter which you hold still, the friction and the drag are the same. The only thing different is which side of the slot in the upper receiver the index pin bears on... Short answer they are all the same.... If all the methods were the same you would see just as many sheared index pins (if not more) from people using clam shell upper receiver vise blocks. If the upper is held stationary, the nut will drag the barrel around, until it is stopped by the index pin. If the barrel is held stationary the nut will drag the upper around, until it is stopped by the index pin. If the extension is held stationary the nut will drag the upper around, until it is stopped by the index pin. Someone will have to show some actual data to prove that one is 'better' (or inferior) than another.... This is all correct. As far as posting "actual data" to prove one method better than the other it has already been done in my opinion by all of the posts about sheared index pins caused by the use of the Reaction Rod since it has been available. The clam shell vise blocks have been around a hell of a lot longer than the Reaction Rod and in much greater numbers but with very few sheared index pins being reported. I'm not saying that index pins don't/can't shear with the clam shell upper receiver vise blocks but if this does happen with as much regularity as with the Reaction Rod why is no one posting about it? |
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Posted: 5/26/2016 7:00:16 AM EDT
[#23]
Last I heard, the index pin only shears off if it's not up to spec.
So all these $100 barrels people are buying up these days might break, but in theory the decent barrels won't. |
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