Hey everyone I've lurked on the forums for sometime and just recently decided to make an account because I'm getting ready to join the ar world. Well actually I've never owned my own firearms  but I'm getting ready to leave Massachusetts and move to Maine after i finish this year of college. So basically I already have a full build list I'm just having trouble deciding on barrel length and manufacturer. At first I wanted to get an 18 inch Rainier Ultramatch barrel in .223 wylde but then I wanted a 16 inch and now I'm not even sure what manufacturer to go with. I'm back and forth on the length issue so I was hoping someone here could help me make a decision on length and manufacturer. There is no limit on budget so I'm willing to pay a lot if the barrel warrants the price. I'd like a very accurate barrel that is why I initially had chosen the Rainier Ultramatch. Some other things to note are I do not want a pencil barrel but I don't want anything to heavy either I hear the .750 is a good compromise in thickness and weight. I'd like my ar to be accurate and also a good combat rifle if the time ever comes that I need to protect myself and my family, so barrel life is also up there in what I'm looking for. Speaking of barrel life I'm not exactly sure on the whole meloniting or chromelining or whatever lwrc does to their barrels how do these linings/coatings compare to each other etc? Anyways Thank you for having this website up it has helped quite a lot with the rest of my choices for parts as I've been lurking the forums. Hopefully someone can help me out, cheers everyone and take care.

edit: Pretty sure this is the right place to post this, if it is not I am very sorry.

Might look @ White Oak.  Pencil is fine if you're not bump firing or doing mag dumps.

You cannot go wrong with a Green Mountain barrel, best bang for the buck. Green Mountain is a barrel manufacturer most barrel sales outfits are not manufacturers just resellers.


Vince

Thanks backbencher and vinny I'll look into both anyone else have any input? Aswell as maybe helping me understand the different coatings/linings? I know that chromelining is the mil spec but are the other coatings out there like melonite etc any better? Thanks again everyone!

I second the Green Mountain suggestion, but also like AR15Performance.

The GM 16" midlength has been a great performer for both my son and I, it was my very first barrel that I bought and later sold it as part of an AR...and I regret letting it go.

I also have been using some ARP barrels as of late and have been very happy with them.

The GM is chambered in 5.56, chrome lined, and phosphate finished...whereas the ARP is chambered in .223 Wylde (still shoots 5.56), and is melonite treated inside and out.

Personally I would go with the .223 Wylde and melonite finish, but I have no issue with a quality conventional 5.56 chromed barrel either.

+1

Green Mountain makes damn fine barrels, sells them at a fair price, and ships them in a timely manner.  They're the go to barrel for 10/22 builders, and looks like they're edging their way ahead in the AR market.

I would think your intended use would go a long way in determining what barrel length/barrel to go with.  I know you said home defense in which most cases accuracy is not terribly important due to short range most incidents take place.  If you plan to take up shooting and doing a lot plinking, do you have any idea what ranges you want to work with?  I am assuming you won't use this for hunting.  Finally, what are you going to do for optics?  If you plan to do iron sites and/or a red dot, unless you become extremely proficient,  you don't need a sub MOA barrel because your optics would limit your accuracy more than the barrel.  If ultimately you want to do a lot of shooting and mag dumping, I would say a 4150 CMV would suite you well from any of the manufacturers already named.

This all started because my step fathers been trying to get me to shoot, however i don't go up to see my mom in Maine very often because I'm busy with my studies. Trying to get into medical school and getting the best possible grades so I've been taking summer courses as well as regular term courses but that will hopefully change after this year because I plan on moving up there as I stated in my first post. As for range I believe my mom and step father shoot on their own land which i believe is at least 100 yards if not more in some places I'll call them later and get a more accurate number. I'd like to be able to make shots out to 600 yards but I'm not going to make that the biggest issue because I doubt I'll find anywhere to shoot out to that distance so i guess 0-300ish would be better numbers to go with. As for an optic my step father offered to give me a Leupold mark 8 1.1-8 which is apparently quite pricey so I'm a little iffy on accepting it, is it a good optic and does the price and is it actually worth the price Leupold puts on it? If so how about for close range, of course a smaller sight would be better but is it still reliable and quick into action at closer ranges? Also how far will 8x magnification get me out to, with being a new shooter i don't really have any confidence in my ability to shoot accurately despite how nice of a barrel I may or may not have. thanks again everyone take care.

Your step father loves you dearly.  Take the Leupold.  Put a good bbl under that glass.

ARPerformance.com

Now I see why you want a good barrel.  The Leo is a sweat optic.  Out to 300 yards you won't have any trouble with that scope.  As far as your barrel choice goes and as I am sure you are aware, SS barrels will generally be more accurate but won't last as long as CMV.  Still there are many CMVs that are guaranteed sub MOA which will be more than enough to shoot at 300 to 600 yards if you do your part.  It is still tough to decide on which barrel just because you don't know yet what kind of shooting you will like best.  I personally like long range shooting but most of my buddies prefer quick acquestition at shorter range.  I would probably lean towards CMV for you since you may find like you like shooting several thousand rounds a year.  Since I am a SS guy, I would defer to the others on here on what is the best choice for an accurate CMV.

Alright, thanks everyone for the help I'll take every barrel brand into consideration. Take care all!

So I've decided to go with a 16 inch barrel over an 18 inch barrel. I just went shooting for the first time this weekend and i gotta say I don't know why I didn't do it sooner. I didn't get to shoot an ar but I did get to shoot a bunch of different guns and it was crazy fun! I can't wait to get out of Massachusetts, but until then I'll begin buying parts excluding the lower and other not mass compliant items. Still undecided on a specific barrel but I've decided on a 1:8 twist rate. Once I have enough parts to get something together I'll probably start build thread. Thanks everyone, I'm still looking at the barrel companies hopefully I'll be able to decide soon! Take care.

Glad to hear you had a good time.  Good luck with the build.

Dude you are overthinking all of this.

The people here can and will get into a very heated discussion on every single aspect of these rifles.  Now we can go through the whole rigmarole of trying to find the correct barrel for YOUR specific needs; topics which include: metallurgical properties, lined vs unlined, barrel length, barrel contour, muzzle velocity, muzzle break pull off, crowning, gas system length, service life, chamberings, throating, gas port sizing, etc..  Anyone of these topics is yet another jumping off point for an in detailed discussion in itself.  Eventually someone will bring up the topic of getting in to reloading, which will again require a revisiting of all the previous topics.

The truth is, we have a disease here.  Just like a smoker with emphysema who can't quit their habit, we troll arfcom splitting hairs on topics that are only relevant to maybe less than 0.1% of shooters (1 in 1000, which i believe is EXTREMELY generous) .  A lot of us here have read too much on these subjects, but most of the time it just brings up more questions.  I am a scientist and my company does R&D on ultralight weight clad rifle barrels, shit that makes all your ultramatch pencil barrels feel like a fat elephant sitting on the end of your rifle.  We talk about barrel harmonics and the behavior of shockwaves as they meet the interface between our two barrel alloys.

So believe me when I say that unless you are in that <0.1%, you don't need to be spending tons of cash on your barrel and worrying about some of the things you've mentioned and probably will mention once you do more research (which it seems like you're into).

Given what I've said, and the fact you don't have any guns, here's my suggestion:

Since there is "no limit on budget", buy a bolt action rifle in .308 for that leupold.  That will definitely get you out to 600+ yards, and even at short distances (100-200 yards) it's really fun seeing how small you can get your groups.  That will help you become a better shooter.  Then buy an AR from Colt or some other reputable manufacturer.

Thank you for the suggestion beetlebuu, however my stepfather already has a .308 bolt action as well as a mosin nagant in 7.62 x54r i shot them both over the weekend. They where both hella fun to shoot. Maybe I'll change my mind when I do start buying, however I wont be buying an ar from colt or any manufacturer I'd rather build it myself, for one if I'm smart about my purchases I can get everything I need from the firearm for less money and probably get a better preforming gun. All that garage gun talk over on the ar15 reddit page was pretty hilarious, and it seems that the majority seemed to think that the person who started it all was up himself. Plus I'd rather have the satisfaction of building something myself, I've kinda sorta fell back a little on the whole precision shooting aspect which is why I've decided on going with a 16 inch instead of an 18 inch. I'm sure once i get better at shooting I'll be able to shoot nice groups even with a little less velocity and barrel length. Maybe shooting my step dad's savage some more will make me lean to a 308 rifle more but for now I think I'm sold on an ar 15.

Well I totally understand if you're dead set on building one, it is very satisfying.  Just know that once you go down this path it is hard to stop!  I have a couple observations when it comes to barrels though.

16" is a bullcrap length.  It falls in that "not quite a carbine, not quite a rifle" length.  the 223 was designed to shoot out of a 20 inch barrel.  All the powder is burnt up at 20 inches, and muzzle velocity begins to peak there as well, after 20 inches you get severely diminishing returns as far as MV goes.  Under 20 inches and you start blowing unburnt powder out the muzzle and velocity starts to go down.  The 223 and m16 were developed for each other and it's not optimal to deviate from what the engineers originally intended.  223 is unique in the fact that it NEEDS to be above a certain velocity for the bullet to work as it was designed, so shortening the barrel can really eat into the effective range of that round.  4" is really not that much when you think about it and the weight can be offset by getting a slightly lighter contour. I'm glad you dropped the idea of the 18 inch as I don't find that to be a viable option at all, especially when you're 2 inches away from the full 20.

Now a better length would be 10.5 to 14.5 inches, which is definitely carbine territory.  Time and popularity have shown that if you are going to start trading muzzle velocity for length these are the numbers to stick to.  Hell, the m4 uses a 14.5 inch barrel and the MK18 i believe uses a 10.3.  I'm just not a fan of 16 inch barrels and I just think they're popular because they are the shortest non-NFA length you can buy.  Unfortunately unless you're willing to spend the time and money to get into the NFA game, you're limited to a pinned and welded 14.5 inch.  While people have shown that with the proper setup and excellent marksmanship skills, the AR platform can shoot out to +/- 800 yards, I personally don't consider it to be a long range precision tool.  I know there are better rifles suited to that job. That being said, it is cool to push the limits of your gear and I definitely plan a 20" precision rig down the road.

I'll keep that in mind, the barrel is likely to be one of the last parts I buy as I'm still not entirely sure what I want out of it yet except for the twist rate. I'd sure love to jsut buy an LWRC barrel because they just look absolutely gorgeous with the way the fluting is done but I don't feel like buying a piston upper or a whole LWRC rifle for just a barrel. So I'll keep the length issue in mind for now.

After determining what my purposes for a new build are, I usually start a with the bullet I want to shoot, and the barrel that will shoot that bullet.  After all, the whole purpose and design of a rifle is to push that bullet out the muzzle.  Everything else is secondary. The building/thinking process goes something like this:

1) What is the purpose of my new rifle (portability/maneuverability, quiet)
So now i'm looking at a suppressed sbr or bullpup.

2) What shooting platform do I want to use (AR15)
AR15 is by far the easiest to assemble with a lot of options to get what I need.  This eliminates the bullpup idea

3) What bullet (208 gr .308 A-Max)
if it's going to be quiet it has to be slow (subsonic), and if it's going to be slow it better be big.  There are a few other large caliber offerings but this one is has better availability and is a proven performer in a short barreled ar15

4) What cartridge effectively shoots that bullet out of a short barrel. (300 blk)
300 blk is ideally suited to this task.  I could have gone with a subsonic .308 Win load out of a short barreled ar10 but that would be at least a 12 in barrel.  

5) what barrel is best suited for shooting 208gr A-Max from a 300 blk cartridge.
Barrel considerations go here!

In summary, the barrel is the heart of your build start there first and finish the upper, almost any lower will do for your purposes and you can get that anytime.  Plus the lower is the only thing that is a hassle to buy if getting your hands on one is difficult in the state you're in.

Its not that its difficult to get a lower here I just don't feel like applying for an FID and then a LTC-A when I'll be leaving the state in less than a year to maybe a year total time so the upper was going to be what i worked with first since i don't need a license as i understand to buy anything except the lower. I was going to get an upper first forward assist rail etc... while i decide on a barrel. But maybe I'll figure out which barrel I want before I even buy any other parts. I actually already have a list of everything I want although that is subject to change as time goes on and newer products come out or better deals show up. Thanks again, take care!

Wow didn't know it was such a hassle to own firearms up there!



This is true!  Deals and fads come and go; they shouldn't really have an effect on the general purpose of your rifle.  Definitely snag things up when you see great deals, but always ask yourself: "Does this suit my goal?"  Unless my company or someone else comes up with some big break through, I don't see barrel technology changing anytime soon.  In the mean time decide what kind of bullets you want to shoot, it's easy to say .223, but it goes deeper than that.  Luckily you're not reloading so that eliminates a lot of your options.  Cost will probably be your biggest factor.

in commercial .223/5.56 you have a number of choices from 45 grain varminting bullets to 77 grain open tip match.  Narrow down what you'll be shooting most.  55 gr mil-surplus are the most plentiful and cheapest then the 62 gr SS109 steel penetrators.  Federal Gold Medal Match is the benchmark which rifles are tested against but that runs over $1/round.  A lot of people say the .223 wylde in a 1:8 twist will let you shoot absolutely everything, but I don't have a lot of experience with that.  I honestly don't think it matters.  You need to be a great marksman before things like this begin to factor in (that whole <0.1% i was talking about earlier).  I shoot a 1:7 twist 5.56 chambered barrel.  I mostly use surplus 5.56 (55 gr); it doesn't shoot great but its CHEAP!  When I switch to match grade bullets I see the groups tighten up.  I also have to re-zero the rifle for the new round if I want to do anything more serious than plinking.  Re-zeroing the rifle for that ammo change is relatively easy, but it is a waste of time and ammo.  I'm also more conservative shooting that stuff because of the price; who buys an AR to shoot at the pace of a bolt gun?  Next rifle will be 1:9 since 90% of my shooting is with the 55gr stuff.  I'll leave the precision work for my .308 bolt gun.

Yeah I don't know it isn't that bad in Massachusetts at least we don't have to deal with bullet buttons and stuff like that. However the two "evil" feature rule is kind of annoying to say the least. I live in a green city so I'd probably have no trouble getting an FID I just don't see the point if I'll be moving out of here soon anyways. Thanks for all the help again I'll be sure to put it to good use.

Quick question about ARP or i guess any barrel manufacturer, I assume when a barrel is specified as "lightweight contour" that it is a pencil barrel is this true? I like the prices on ARP's website and a couple people have recommended them in the thread. But in general is lightweight contour a pencil barrel, because my first thought is that it is indeed a pencil barrel. Also how does the lightweight contour compare to the socom contour they offer? Thanks to anyone that answers and sorry if this is already specified somewhere on the website.

 +1 to this.  My first build was a 5.56 with a 20", 1in8 twist, govt profile barrel from Green Mountain.  That turned out to be an excellent choice - low cost, chrome lined, not too heavy and very accurate.  I firmly believe the little .223 cartridge needs all the barrel length it can get to come up to optimum velocity.  Shorter barrels give up too much due its relatively low expansion ratio.  - CW

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m16-m16a2-5-56mm-20-barrel-with-extension-1-8-twist/

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This isn't going to be my only ar and I think I will be using a green mountain in a future spr/precision type build  after seeing that group. But for my current build I'm going more for a lighter(hopefully) fighting type rifle, at first precision shooting was what i wanted  but after going shooting for the first time over the weekend  shooting two bolt action rifles has made me feel more inclined to buy one of those and then later down the line build a precision ar15. I think I'm going to go with a 16 inch or shorter barrel for my first build but I'll definitely take green mountain into consideration for a precision type build that I will do in the future. Honestly I'm sort of stuck on the 16 inch barrel because i don't want to have to deal with nfa type stuff, of course i could go with a 14.5 with a pin and welded flash hider or muzzle break. But I'd like to be able to test different breaks or flash hiders so I think I'm going to have to go with the 16 inch barrel. In fact I already have one in mind, I'm looking at the AR Performance 5.56/.223 Wylde 16" Socom barrel fluted however it isn't on their website and every other website I've found it on it is out of stock, will this specific barrel be for sale again any time soon or no? Thank again everyone, take care!

Very nice shooting.  What were you using for optics?

The ARP is not a pencil barrel, just a lighter weight than their SOCOM, which is fairly heavy.

Most pencil barrels will be at .62" or so, and the Green Mountain is about .72".

Hmm maybe I will go with the one up on ARP right now then...although maybe I should wait and see if they ever start selling the socom contour in 16 inch again...I'll think about it  anyways,but thanks!

Lightweight contour are not necessarily pencil barrels, in fact both the terms are relatively subjective as there is no real definition to either term.  Usually pencil barrels are at the lightest end of the spectrum where a lot of people start calling the contour ultralight. then you have the lightweight barrels a bit heavier.  Socom contour just refers to the fact that it has the cutout on the barrel for mounting a m203 launcher, which for 99.9+% of people is irrelevant.

I see, however thats what ARP had it lsited as. It was a heavier barrel with 5/8-24 threading. Thanks for giving me the actual definition of the socom profile though i appreciate it!

One last question before i let this thread die, I know for sure now that I'm getting an ARP barrel for my first build. So there is really only two choices, and only one is for sale right now. Either I wait for the socom profile to come back which is 2 2 oz or just  2 lbs if its fluted and have 5/8-24 muzzle threading so I'd have to get a .308 muzzle device or i can go with the scout contour for the barrel with 1/2-28 muzzle threads and it only weighs 1 lb 11 0z. Now I'm not going to be anal about weight I exercise a lot I'm in pretty good shape so if the guns a little on the heavy side I'll probably be okay. But on ARP it says "Like all barrels with 1/2-28 threaded muzzles they will not be as accurate as a barrel with a target crown or 5/8-24 thread." Is this true? And will the lighter barrel do okay for mag dumps? If shit ever gets bad  and I'm going to be fighting a lot I want a barrel I can count on if my life or the life of my family/friends becomes in danger. So thanks to anyone that answers or just stops by to check the thread. I'm very happy with all the help I've already gotten the community here is great! Take care everyone.


quick edit. The socom and scout both have .750 gas blocks. The socom is .800 before the gas block and .720 after the gas block, the scout is .700 before and after the gas block.

I would get the scout barrel...I have the 18" fluted SPR barrel and its very limited as far as muzzle devices unless I use a 7.62 comp/brake.

The heavier barrel really won't provide any advantage unless you're running full auto, the 0.70" scout barrel is more than adequate.

Sounds good, that answers one question. Does the 5/8-24 threads do what arp says though? Or not so much?

I really couldn't say.

The effect is big, if you're shooting benchrest.  Essentially the gasses are held close to the projo as it exits the chamber, thus having the opportunity to impart a VERY  slight wobble.  The bigger-diameter thread pattern allows the gasses to move away from the projo uopn exit from the muzzle and not interfere with its flight stability.  So, if you intend to compete at VERY long ranges you'll care, but otherwise it's more about the barrel quality, free-floating, trigger quality, and the nut behind the trigger than it is about a muzze-device thread pattern.  I'm guessing it would make less than a 1/4 moa difference.

The option you have, if you care, is when shooting for accuracy simply remove your muzzle device.  Don't use your crush washer, just use a shim kit so that it's clocked right when hand tight.  This will give you the best of both and only take a minute to go back and forth.

Thanks! I'll probably just go with the scout then since it will save a little bit of weight.

Or running supressed