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Quoted: Lost foam and other casting methods are best for high production *after* you get the core dimensions right. Using it for prototyping would involve a lot of hand labor I would think. The idea is that the 3d printer can take the necessity of having a highly skilled pattern maker in the process. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Wow. I wonder how hard it would be to go a few steps further with an aluminum casting using a lost foam method....... Lost foam and other casting methods are best for high production *after* you get the core dimensions right. Using it for prototyping would involve a lot of hand labor I would think. The idea is that the 3d printer can take the necessity of having a highly skilled pattern maker in the process. |
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Mike, might want to sign up for a corporate sponsor membership. Advertising here w/o paying isn't allowed.
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Glad to see other people are still working with Boris' ideas. Other projects took over my spare time back around Christmas, so I've not tinkered with my molds in a long time. Took me a while to catch up with all the new posts in this thread.
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However, I would bet a trip to your local hardware store, with a pair of calipers to measure the thickness of some steel or brass rods and wire would yield much cheaper results. Use the pins in your lower to cast the mold, and then you already have the holes set into your mold to align them when you cast the new lowers. View Quote I've had moderate success doing precisely this, though I had to order quite a lot of the pieces from Fastenal, the local hardware stores tending not to stock the size pins I needed. Using the right size pins makes molding the front and rear takedown plunger channels a breeze, though actually aligning the channels in a casting has been a bit hit and miss, as I have limited room in my current mold box in which to embed the pins in rubber for alignment. Fortunately the correct size pins (3/32") happen to fit quite nicely through 1/4" clevis pins, themselves the correct size for for the takedown pin holes. Still, it's awkward to align these inside a mold box. My next mold box will hold most of the pins rigidly without relying on molding rubber, either using inserts (wood or metal) or else drilling through the sides of the mold box itself. (The point to using inserts would be to simplify the positioning of the various holes - I'd hope and expect that the inserts would give enough purchase in the mold rubber to position the pins without my having to be as precise in drilling as I would be if I ran the pins through the sides of the box.) I'll be working on that once I run out of platinum-based rubber, at which point I'll switch to tin-base and give Task 21 a try. |
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or else drilling through the sides of the mold box itself. View Quote Although, I'm also trying to make a more rigid mold than a rubber, as well. Once I get the insert pieces done the way I want for things like the FCG pocket, magwell, rear extension threads, etc. then I'm looking towards casting the exterior in two halves. By not using rubber, I figure that I will have to add the cost of release agent to my cost per piece, but what's an extra nickel or so on top of the 2 dollar per piece resin cost? |
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This is pushing so many buttons for me. Might have to try this at some point in time, just to say I've done it.
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I ordered some of the steel reinforcement peices for ar15mold. I was supposed to get a discount code for them but after sending them a couple of emails I gave up and just ordered them at the $6 each price.
Once I get them I plan to cast several lowers... purple, orange, a couple black, and a few other colors... maybe a FDE and OD for good measure. |
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I finally caught up on all of the posts. I'm amazed at the work and ingenuity being put into this project.
I am disappointed that I can't see the pictures that were posted by FP3D starting on page 14. While this sort of thing is way out of my area of expertise, I can't help but wonder if something like LiquiGlide or Ultra-Ever Dry might be helpful. (Be sure to watch the ketchup bottle video.) http://liquiglide.com/ http://www.industrialproducts.com/waterproofing-ultra-ever-dry.html (available on Amazon) https://www.wired.com/2016/07/super-slippery-coatings-good-way-ketchup-bottles/ http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-NeverWet-18-oz-NeverWet-Multi-Purpose-Spray-Kit-274232/204216476 Would this help with pouring and elimination of air bubbles? Would it help with details in the cast part, particularly the threads? Would it help with the removal of the cast part and/or preserving the mold? |
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Just had a sudden thought. Ran it by sample, but he's not sure it will work.
Trinity Ordnance has Sabre Defense (Cav Arms Mk 2/GWACS) lowers for $60. Some of them are cracked. Sold as is, Trinity Ordnance sells the cracked ones for $20. I bought one for Fruity Ghost purposes, thinking I'd finish splitting it lengthwise, and cast 2 halves. I was idly thinking about Effort Bloomberg, thinking I could get a perfect working magwell for $20. Then I realized - we could cut Sabre Defense lowers up into sections, and cast each section separately, then glue the parts back together. Super glue holds up to 12 ga 3" 00 recoil. So - for $20, you get a cracked lower. Cut it one of several ways: Cut the magwell/LRBHO/mag catch module off completely, and cast separately. Cast the FCS pocket separately. Cast the rear pocket/buffer tube boss/PG mount separately. Or - split the two halves open. Perhaps make it much easier to cast the LRBHO & mag catch. For those unfamiliar, GWACS bought the Cav Arms Manufacturing molds & machinery & now operates out of Jenks, OK: http://www.gwacsarmory.com/ It's the only plastic lower that is ARFCOM approved. I have done work for Trinity Ordnance in the past, do not currently have any affiliation w/ them other than friendship & a lust for $20 lowers. Thoughts? |
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If the shipping and local transfer fees weren't so much I would have bought several from them.
I really want to try making a modernized fruity ghost cav arms lower this winter. Will probably make the mold using one of my billet lowers, a magpul FCS, and maybe a magpul MOE K2 Or similar grip that goes up the curve of the lower receiver where these fruity ghost lowers typically break. If you can cast it as one piece then you can use an aluminum tube for the buffer tube and make a decent metal reinforcement for rear of the receiver or use plenty of fiberglass. |
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Please forgive me if I missed it, but this (incredibly awesome) thread is huge.
Has anyone found a product name and source for replacement plastic/resin for the AR15mold system so we can keep costs down after the initial purchase? I want to use it first before making my own pattern from a "normal" lower. TIA |
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Yeah I figured it out.....sorta. It's a very similar resin that should be compatible with their molds so long as you use a mold release product.
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What's the product name? And is the mold release something that you spray onto the mold before pouring, or is it mixed into the resin?
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1901886_Space_Shuttle_Student_Project_thread_2016_17___UPDATE_11_18_pg20_Rasping_the_day_away.html&page=20#i63198133
Hide paste & burlap - anyone wanna give it a go? |
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What's the product name? And is the mold release something that you spray onto the mold before pouring, or is it mixed into the resin? View Quote Mold release is a spray on before pouring kind of thing. |
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1901886_Space_Shuttle_Student_Project_thread_2016_17___UPDATE_11_18_pg20_Rasping_the_day_away.html&page=20#i63198133 Hide paste & burlap - anyone wanna give it a go? View Quote Hell someone made a lower out of a 2x6 pine stud....it only lasted a few rounds but it worked and didn't kill or injure the shooter. Can see how that wouldn't work for at least 1 or 2 shots. |
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I don't remember. It's posted in here somewhere. It's a smooth-on product, task series IIRC. It's also possible that it might have been in another thread about ar15molds. Mold release is a spray on before pouring kind of thing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What's the product name? And is the mold release something that you spray onto the mold before pouring, or is it mixed into the resin? Mold release is a spray on before pouring kind of thing. Task 21. I don't think it was posted previously in this discussion, but in that other separate discussion about the ar15mold products. While you're ordering that, do yourself the favor of bundling another Smooth-on product called Universal Mold Release (UMR). Trust me on that one! ETA: Do NOT use Task 21 with the fruity ghost method's silicone mold, unless you wish to be severely disappointed! The recommendation is only here as a replacement for the ar15mold resin. Task 21 will not cure properly in the silicone molds created in the OP of this discussion. |
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Quoted: Hell someone made a lower out of a 2x6 pine stud....it only lasted a few rounds but it worked and didn't kill or injure the shooter. Can see how that wouldn't work for at least 1 or 2 shots. View Quote http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8035 |
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If you can cast it as one piece then you can use an aluminum tube for the buffer tube and make a decent metal reinforcement for rear of the receiver or use plenty of fiberglass. View Quote Why not use an actual buffer tube? Buffer tubes are cheap (especially compared to the cost of pouring a Cav-15-sized mold), and using a real one saves on the trouble of matching dimensions to your buffer. Location is critical, but maybe a few pins can solve that. (Or maybe I'm failing to think in negative space again. :-) ) |
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Task 21. I don't think it was posted previously in this discussion, but in that other separate discussion about the ar15mold products. While you're ordering that, do yourself the favor of bundling another Smooth-on product called Universal Mold Release (UMR). Trust me on that one! ETA: Do NOT use Task 21 with the fruity ghost method's silicone mold, unless you wish to be severely disappointed! The recommendation is only here as a replacement for the ar15mold resin. Task 21 will not cure properly in the silicone molds created in the OP of this discussion. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What's the product name? And is the mold release something that you spray onto the mold before pouring, or is it mixed into the resin? Mold release is a spray on before pouring kind of thing. Task 21. I don't think it was posted previously in this discussion, but in that other separate discussion about the ar15mold products. While you're ordering that, do yourself the favor of bundling another Smooth-on product called Universal Mold Release (UMR). Trust me on that one! ETA: Do NOT use Task 21 with the fruity ghost method's silicone mold, unless you wish to be severely disappointed! The recommendation is only here as a replacement for the ar15mold resin. Task 21 will not cure properly in the silicone molds created in the OP of this discussion. Thanks!! I will be buying the AR15mold kit to create patterns for sand casting aluminum and bronze lowers. They will have to be cut apart and scaled up (mostly length wise) so I want to do this as easily as possible at first. I was big into this a couple years ago (I think on weapons guild) but was trying 0% lowers then and had a lot of shrinkage issues in the mag well due to the thickness there. If I do correct cores, shrinkage won't be a problem. After I get that going I want to do the Fruity Ghost method so lowers come out looking "right". Yes, I know that cast lowers aren't as desirable as most other stuff, but it's fun. Plus if I could crank out a couple bronze lowers it would help fund my 601 build. |
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Why not use an actual buffer tube? Buffer tubes are cheap (especially compared to the cost of pouring a Cav-15-sized mold), and using a real one saves on the trouble of matching dimensions to your buffer. Location is critical, but maybe a few pins can solve that. (Or maybe I'm failing to think in negative space again. :-) ) View Quote more just trying to figure out a way to do this as "cheaply" as possible. Aluminum tube is pretty cheap compared to buying buffer tubes. I will likely buy a few buffer tubes to test it out but eventually I want to do it from tubing. One advantage of the buffer tubes is the protrusion on the bottom for the stock to lock into place would help "lock" the mold in place around the tube. The downside is this will necessitate pouring the upper upside down or vertically to make sure no air gets trapped in there |
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Quoted: Thanks!!
I will be buying the AR15mold kit to create patterns for sand casting aluminum and bronze lowers. They will have to be cut apart and scaled up (mostly length wise) so I want to do this as easily as possible at first. I was big into this a couple years ago (I think on weapons guild) but was trying 0% lowers then and had a lot of shrinkage issues in the mag well due to the thickness there. If I do correct cores, shrinkage won't be a problem. After I get that going I want to do the Fruity Ghost method so lowers come out looking "right". Yes, I know that cast lowers aren't as desirable as most other stuff, but it's fun. Plus if I could crank out a couple bronze lowers it would help fund my 601 build. View Quote You're going to crank out 80% bronze lowers, right? |
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You're going to crank out 80% bronze lowers, right? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Thanks!!
I will be buying the AR15mold kit to create patterns for sand casting aluminum and bronze lowers. They will have to be cut apart and scaled up (mostly length wise) so I want to do this as easily as possible at first. I was big into this a couple years ago (I think on weapons guild) but was trying 0% lowers then and had a lot of shrinkage issues in the mag well due to the thickness there. If I do correct cores, shrinkage won't be a problem. After I get that going I want to do the Fruity Ghost method so lowers come out looking "right". Yes, I know that cast lowers aren't as desirable as most other stuff, but it's fun. Plus if I could crank out a couple bronze lowers it would help fund my 601 build. You're going to crank out 80% bronze lowers, right? He'd have to modify the ar15mold in order to make 80% wax castings for sand casting aluminum or bronze lowers. That'd be a pretty cool product though. Actually I'd kinda like to have a pretty polished bell brass lower, that could be pretty cool, especially for doing something like a Navy themed engraved lower. |
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He'd have to modify the ar15mold in order to make 80% wax castings for sand casting aluminum or bronze lowers. That'd be a pretty cool product though. Actually I'd kinda like to have a pretty polished bell brass lower, that could be pretty cool, especially for doing something like a Navy themed engraved lower. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted: Thanks!!
I will be buying the AR15mold kit to create patterns for sand casting aluminum and bronze lowers. They will have to be cut apart and scaled up (mostly length wise) so I want to do this as easily as possible at first. I was big into this a couple years ago (I think on weapons guild) but was trying 0% lowers then and had a lot of shrinkage issues in the mag well due to the thickness there. If I do correct cores, shrinkage won't be a problem. After I get that going I want to do the Fruity Ghost method so lowers come out looking "right". Yes, I know that cast lowers aren't as desirable as most other stuff, but it's fun. Plus if I could crank out a couple bronze lowers it would help fund my 601 build. You're going to crank out 80% bronze lowers, right? He'd have to modify the ar15mold in order to make 80% wax castings for sand casting aluminum or bronze lowers. That'd be a pretty cool product though. Actually I'd kinda like to have a pretty polished bell brass lower, that could be pretty cool, especially for doing something like a Navy themed engraved lower. Those modifications would be pretty important if, as he states, he intends to sell bronze lowers for profit. If you make a lower, and down the road, your buddy wants to buy it, no harm, no foul. If you set out to make lowers for profit, you'll need a manufacturing FFL or crank out 80% lowers. |
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He might. Most of us don't, and some folks aren't real clear on the legal issues surrounding making one's own lowers. ETA: Googling shows he does. Look forward to the bronze lowers. |
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I forget that sometimes 80% receivers can sell better than 100% in certain circumstances. It would be easy to modify the core (basically leave it out) so the fcg pocket is solid if I can get the rest of the pattern correct.But that is for another thread. I don't want to take anything away from this awesome one that Boris has started. I'd like to see more guys rolling their own.
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I forget that sometimes 80% receivers can sell better than 100% in certain circumstances. It would be easy to modify the core (basically leave it out) so the fcg pocket is solid if I can get the rest of the pattern correct.But that is for another thread. I don't want to take anything away from this awesome one that Boris has started. I'd like to see more guys rolling their own. View Quote Lot of 80%-ers around here... I'd much rather have a brass 80% than a 100% since if I was going to do it, I'd want totally custom engraving on it and having an 80% lower engraved is a lot less hassle. I don't think you can really take much away from Boris... his whole project is just full to bursting with awesomeness. If anything more discussion is just going to make it bigger and better. |
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You're right about Boris. I also don't want to talk about what I may or may not sell until I can make sure I'm following the forum rules
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Quoted: I forget that sometimes 80% receivers can sell better than 100% in certain circumstances. It would be easy to modify the core (basically leave it out) so the fcg pocket is solid if I can get the rest of the pattern correct.But that is for another thread. I don't want to take anything away from this awesome one that Boris has started. I'd like to see more guys rolling their own. View Quote I didn't twig that you were a manufacturer, and sometimes folks don't realize they can't just complete a lower & flip it. Dealership status on here isn't an insignificant cost. |
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Sweet thread... need to see if there is a pre-christmas gun buyback and cast some lowers.
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I placed my order with Smooth-On today.
This should be a blast for the whole family - I can have them working on this project while I watch tv and sip some hard cider, errr VODKA, I mean VODKA....sorry Boris. Now I just have to dig through the thread to find out how much Moldstar is needed for a "normal" Lego-type mold and how much Smoothcast to mix for one lower. |
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Quoted:Now I just have to dig through the thread to find out how much Moldstar is needed for a "normal" Lego-type mold and how much Smoothcast to mix for one lower.
View Quote Seriously, don't use Legos. Great for getting the point across, or for people with no tools at all, but a real mess to work with. Much better to scratch build a mold box. |
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Seriously, don't use Legos. Great for getting the point across, or for people with no tools at all, but a real mess to work with. Much better to scratch build a mold box. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:Now I just have to dig through the thread to find out how much Moldstar is needed for a "normal" Lego-type mold and how much Smoothcast to mix for one lower. Seriously, don't use Legos. Great for getting the point across, or for people with no tools at all, but a real mess to work with. Much better to scratch build a mold box. Even if you can build a Lego mold box @ 70mph on I-45. The problem is that the mold compound leaks between the bricks. |
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Roger on the legos. The reason I had considered it was that my son has a S*** load of them and we could easily guess the dimensions using it. In fact, I may have him build one so I can snag the dimensions from it now that I think about it....
But yeah, I'll probably grab some 1/4 plexi or something like that and build a legit take down box while I'm waiting for my Smooth On order. Thanks for the advice. |
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Do we need mold release for Boris' project? I did not order any with my Moldstar 30 and Smoothcast 300.
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Do we need mold release for Boris' project? I did not order any with my Moldstar 30 and Smoothcast 300. View Quote I use it, but I'm not sure it's essential. Everything I know about molding and casting - and I admit that's not much - I learned in this thread. Have had to set my own casting project aside for a while, but I'm happy to see there's still a steady stream of people picking up Borris' ideas and running with them. |
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Just got a UPS notice that my order will be here tomorrow. (tee hee)
Right after that I realized I don't have a molding box yet. Can somebody post or send me dimensions so I can run to Lowe's and get building? TIA |
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Right after that I realized I don't have a molding box yet. Can somebody post or send me dimensions so I can run to Lowe's and get building? TIA View Quote The aluminum mold box Boris sent me which I used for most of my later molds has interior dimensions of 1-15/16" x 5-1/8" x 8-1/4". The receiver is molded upside down, so the mold box has a raised floor forward of the receiver extension so as to reduce the amount of rubber required. My next mold will probably be pinned in numerous places through the walls of the mold box, but if I were planning to use pins but not planning to put them through the walls, I might be inclined to build a larger box so as to have more working space. The downside of a larger box is more rubber used. |
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Awesome, thanks.
My stuff is here but with the first day of (rifle) deer season I wasn't ready for the project like I wanted to be. Hoping to make progress tomorrow. |
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I will be buying the AR15mold kit to create patterns for sand casting aluminum and bronze lowers. They will have to be cut apart and scaled up (mostly length wise) so I want to do this as easily as possible at first. I was big into this a couple years ago (I think on weapons guild) but was trying 0% lowers then and had a lot of shrinkage issues in the mag well due to the thickness there. If I do correct cores, shrinkage won't be a problem. After I get that going I want to do the Fruity Ghost method so lowers come out looking "right". Yes, I know that cast lowers aren't as desirable as most other stuff, but it's fun. Plus if I could crank out a couple bronze lowers it would help fund my 601 build. View Quote Cast isn't as desirable when doing it with aluminum or steel. It is actually the preferred method of manufacture if it's bronze/brass. Copper alloys are not the same as steel alloys. They "temper" the opposite of steel. They will actually harden more if allowed to cool slowly, such as with the heat trapped in a mold. Copper alloys anneal, or soften when quenched. My ancient history studies are coming out, now. Bronze Age weapons were cast in molds and only needed cosmetic polishing and the edge sharpened when they came out of those molds, due to how bronze tempers when cast. Civilization's transition into the iron age required learning to forge and temper, as well as getting the carbon content into it. Iron was known to the ancients, but discovering the "technology" of this opposite reaction to cooling, how to process it by adding carbon, and understanding the requirement to forge it rather than casting it took time to figure out. Sorry for going so OT here, but at least I kept it tech related, right? |
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Cast isn't as desirable when doing it with aluminum or steel. It is actually the preferred method of manufacture if it's bronze/brass. Copper alloys are not the same as steel alloys. They "temper" the opposite of steel. They will actually harden more if allowed to cool slowly, such as with the heat trapped in a mold. Copper alloys anneal, or soften when quenched. My ancient history studies are coming out, now. Bronze Age weapons were cast in molds and only needed cosmetic polishing and the edge sharpened when they came out of those molds, due to how bronze tempers when cast. Civilization's transition into the iron age required learning to forge and temper, as well as getting the carbon content into it. Iron was known to the ancients, but discovering the "technology" of this opposite reaction to cooling, how to process it by adding carbon, and understanding the requirement to forge it rather than casting it took time to figure out. Sorry for going so OT here, but at least I kept it tech related, right? View Quote The big draw to aluminum vs bronze is temperature. Aluminum is easy to melt and cast. With bronze, you have to get that mofo HOT. Eventually I'll make some bronze uppers and lowers and it will certainly be sweet but in the mean time I'l be having fun. |
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