I'm currently having a discussion with a friend.  He insists that an FFL licensed for manufacturing cannot legally engrave or place markings on an 80% lower, either finished or unfinished, because that would count as manufacturing.  I think that kind of cosmetic alteration would be considered by the ATF as a gunsmithing operation, not manufacturing.  If engraving markings, images, etc counts as manufacturing, then wouldn't applying surface coatings like Cerakote also count as "manufacturing"?  He insists that only someone not licensed for manufacturing of receivers can legally put markings on an 80% receiver.

He posted a link to the atf-ruling-2015-1-manufacturing-and-gunsmithing.pdf on the ATF website as proof, but I don't see any specific wording in there that would indicate the ATF regards applying cosmetic markings as manufacturing.

Who's right?  Or are we both wrong?  Or something in between?  Does anybody have definite, specific information about how the ATF would regard such things that would settle this?

the only time a 80% is considered manufactured by the atf, is if the trigger control pocket is cut out, engravings, or other cosmetic changes other then that do NOT constitute manufactoruing of a ar lower.

https://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-10.htm

You can have them engrave anything you'd like on your 80%. Finished or not. I just had an 80% I completed engraved by a local dealer.

You ninja has a big erection.

Pretty sure that's a Samurai. And @Climbhigher23, that is friggin' awesome!

your engraver did well.  so did you for choosing that.  

What that ruling states is that if the licensed manufacturer does the work for an individual and returns it to said individual there is no transfer taking place and therefore no manufacturing taking place.

If the manufacturer does the work and then transfers the firearm to an individual, then there is manufacturing taking place and the manufacturer would have to mark the firearm with the appropriate markings

So what this boils down to is the following. As an 80% anyone can engrave on it, its not a firearm by any definition, and engravings would not make it a firearm.

As a finished 80% only licensed gunsmiths/ manufacturers can engrave the lower, as it is now a legal firearm. This does not involve manufacturing though as long as no transfer is taking place.

The only time engraving would count as manufacturing is if there is a transfer taking place.

For example, your local gun store wants to have a collection of firearms specially marked to sell in a special event, then they would have to have a licensed manufacturer do the work as the ATF says it is above the classification of "gunsmithing"

That ruling and the one it clarifies are specifically in regard for what a licensed gunsmith is able to do, and where the line is drawn when those actions become manufacturing and a manufacturing license is required. It has nothing to do with what a licensed manufacturer is able to do

That is nice, did you create the design or get it somewhere?

Also, was it laser etched or machined?

I gave my engraver a basic design and a few images and he manipulated it to what he thought would work/fit best with engraving. It is laser engraved. I used google drawing to create the template I wanted and show what/where I wanted text.

Thank you fivonut.  This is what I needed.  Engraving an 80% receiver is definitely not "manufacturing".

Manufacturing

ATF’s long-standing position is that any activities that result in the making of firearms for sale or distribution, to include installing parts in or on firearm frames and receivers, and processes that primarily enhance a firearm’s durability, constitute firearms manufacturing that may require a manufacturer’s license.  In contrast, some activities are not firearms manufacturing processes, and do not require a manufacturer’s license.  For example, ATF Ruling 2009-1 (approved January 12, 2009) explained that performing a cosmetic process or activity, such as camouflaging or engraving, that primarily adds to or changes the appearance or decoration of a firearm is not manufacturing.  Likewise, ATF Ruling 2009-2 (approved January 12, 2009) stated that installing “drop-in” replacement parts in or on existing, fully assembled firearms does not result in any alteration to the original firearms.  Persons engaged in the business of these activities that do not constitute firearms manufacturing need only obtain a dealer’s license.

Although installing parts in or on firearms, and applying special coatings and treatments to firearms are manufacturing activities, the definition of “manufacturer” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(10) and 27 CFR 478.11 also requires that a person be “engaged in the business” before the manufacturer’s license requirement of section 923(a) applies.  Thus, a person who manufactures a firearm will require a manufacturer’s license if he/she devotes time, attention, and labor to such manufacture as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured.  If the person is performing such services only for a customer on firearms provided by that customer, and is not selling or distributing the firearms manufactured, the person would be a “dealer” as defined by 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11)(B) and 27 CFR 478.11, requiring a dealer’s license, assuming the person is “engaged in the business” as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(D) and 27 CFR 478.11 (i.e., “gunsmithing”).

beautiful work!

Looks like it was done with a fiber laser co2 engraved. Who did it? C4Precision?

Yessir! I highly recommend their work!