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Posted: 4/4/2015 2:19:02 PM EDT
[#1]
.308 uses the same fire control group as an ar15 so they're the same depths. I believe it's 1.249" for the main pocket.
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Posted: 4/7/2015 7:46:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
click click (he finishes an 80% 308 lower ITT) http://www.hellfirearmory.com/image/data/AR-10%20Receiver/AR10-prints.jpg What size bits for the trigger group? Thanks got the jig and ready to put it together! |
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Posted: 4/7/2015 8:40:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What size bits for the trigger group? Thanks got the jig and ready to put it together! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
click click (he finishes an 80% 308 lower ITT) http://www.hellfirearmory.com/image/data/AR-10%20Receiver/AR10-prints.jpg What size bits for the trigger group? Thanks got the jig and ready to put it together! it says right on that drawing |
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Posted: 4/8/2015 10:00:21 PM EDT
[#5]
1/2 inch and a .690?
I know the 3/8 and 5/32..... I do not own an end milling bit is there a substitute? |
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Posted: 4/8/2015 10:02:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1/2 inch and a .690? I know the 3/8 and 5/32..... I do not own an end milling bit is there a substitute? I think I see a .43 also? |
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Posted: 4/8/2015 10:07:14 PM EDT
[#7]
1/2 inch and a .690?
I know the 3/8 and 5/32..... I do not own an end milling bit is there a substitute? .690 is the fcg pocket width. The radii in the corners should be .218, which dictates a 7/16 cutter, preferably one with a 1.25" or longer LOC so you can do a full depth finish cut. On the .308 AR, you can get away with a 7/16 cutter for the rear shelf as well. You'll need a 5/16 cutter for the trigger slot. And no, there is nothing you can effectively "substitute" for an end mill. Not like they're very expensive anyway; you should be able to score both in HSS for $20. |
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Posted: 4/9/2015 10:01:34 AM EDT
[#8]
What "jig" are you using? Both my jigs (ar15 from Tactical Machining and .308 from Ares Armor) have ALL the info on the jig for cutting depth and EM size and both sets of instructions have drill bit size.
I would do some more research through reading and YouTube before you get going. This might be a case of "Cart before the Horse" EM's are pretty important. They are not terribly expensive. Get good quality tooling. Checks the sizes as some companies are not very well made. PasoGunner |
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Posted: 4/9/2015 10:33:52 AM EDT
[#9]
CAUTION
The QD10 side hole are different from most others. Trust me here. I once tried a TM10 jig on the QD10. Call Quentin and get the QD10 jig. The pocket is the same. but the hold placement is diff. I do happen to have a qd10 jig if you need one. Also if you don't have an endmill. How do I know you even have a mill? or Drill press. Please use the search feature because this has been discussed numerous times and all the info is there. You don't want to buy another 80 to replace if you don't understand how to start this. Its super easy. As mentioned youtube is your best resource here |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 7:34:29 PM EDT
[#10]
I have a drill press which has been used on an ak parts kit for drill outs and what not. I have not really milled anything except some trigger guard tools for the ak build.
I guess they dont sell milling tools at HD or lowes how about harbor freight? Or do I need to look for a local supply shop or even online? I have watched a few ar15 deals on youtube and yes I do have the qd jig is it supposed to be drilled through just one side for the pins as it only has races or whatever they are called on one side of the receiver? Not finding much on google other than ar10 stuff. |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 7:46:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Drilling from one side is fine as long as you go slow and step drill. I use MSC direct or Amazon for tooling.
Ares armor has a tooling kit. Don't know if it will work with QD jig. What's different with the QD setup anyway? |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 9:59:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.690 is the fcg pocket width. The radii in the corners should be .218, which dictates a 7/16 cutter, preferably one with a 1.25" or longer LOC so you can do a full depth finish cut. On the .308 AR, you can get away with a 7/16 cutter for the rear shelf as well. You'll need a 5/16 cutter for the trigger slot. And no, there is nothing you can effectively "substitute" for an end mill. Not like they're very expensive anyway; you should be able to score both in HSS for $20. Quote HistoryQuoted:
1/2 inch and a .690?
I know the 3/8 and 5/32..... I do not own an end milling bit is there a substitute? .690 is the fcg pocket width. The radii in the corners should be .218, which dictates a 7/16 cutter, preferably one with a 1.25" or longer LOC so you can do a full depth finish cut. On the .308 AR, you can get away with a 7/16 cutter for the rear shelf as well. You'll need a 5/16 cutter for the trigger slot. And no, there is nothing you can effectively "substitute" for an end mill. Not like they're very expensive anyway; you should be able to score both in HSS for $20. what is HSS? |
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Posted: 4/11/2015 10:00:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what is HSS? You need to find someone local to you to work with you on this project. HSS is high speed steel. Seriously, find someone local to help you. |
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Posted: 4/12/2015 1:36:54 AM EDT
[#14]
I get how to read the specs now and the depths are on the specs with my qd lower. I found hss end mills in the sizes with 1.5 inch loc/lof on amazon for 25 shipped. h I have done step drilling and made a few jigs out of 1/4 inch hardend steel before with the drill press which is a 5 speed. I have a vise on it but considering a better one for this build they have one that will make this easier at harbor freight locally. I already have cutting oil and alot of different clamps.
I am not worried about fabrication side of this build just didnt really check out the process other than basics prior to this point. The AK kits seem harder as the rivett.s are a pain in the butt when you are starting out. Not in a rush though trying to do this right the first time. Thanks for the help and I think I get it all now just wish the qd jib had a 3rd top with starter points on it like some of the others I have seen now. We'll figure it out. |
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Posted: 4/12/2015 10:43:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get how to read the specs now and the depths are on the specs with my qd lower. I found hss end mills in the sizes with 1.5 inch loc/lof on amazon for 25 shipped. h I have done step drilling and made a few jigs out of 1/4 inch hardend steel before with the drill press which is a 5 speed. I have a vise on it but considering a better one for this build they have one that will make this easier at harbor freight locally. I already have cutting oil and alot of different clamps. I am not worried about fabrication side of this build just didnt really check out the process other than basics prior to this point. The AK kits seem harder as the rivett.s are a pain in the butt when you are starting out. Not in a rush though trying to do this right the first time. Thanks for the help and I think I get it all now just wish the qd jib had a 3rd top with starter points on it like some of the others I have seen now. We'll figure it out. You may have better success using this http://www.80percentarms.com/products/308-easy-jig along with a decent drill press (and the optional router w/ end mill)... otherwise, a bench-top mini mill or larger is suggested and it will give you the results you are looking for...Just keep in mind that doing your own 80% lower does require some basic machining skills, good equipment, tools, bits, etc. So planning to do just one lower is a Investment of considerable cost...Good luck. A good mill can do this below... 
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Posted: 4/15/2015 11:25:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Got my end mills but kind of worried as the QD jig doesnt have pilot holes like some of the others I have seen. What speed should I set my press to? Can I make small pilot holes within the first top plate to get started and then go at it with the end mill bits.
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Posted: 4/16/2015 2:01:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Well I use centering end mills. So u can plunge a very small amount then get moving. There are lots of charts for milling aluminum with speeds out there. That being said without proper hold down of the jig, proper feeding speed it's almost impossible to say for sure. Have you contacted Randy Spade at Vader Tactical. He has a tutorial out there that is one of the best Google Vader Spade 80% lower. Please be careful. One wrong move and you could ruin the lower, your press, jig and a bunch of fingers in a blink of an eye!
PasoGunner |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 11:38:18 AM EDT
[#18]
you can plunge drill/mill with your endmill.
You don't need to pre drill. If you want then just do so inside the jig limits. Kinda like coloring within the lines. Easy stuff. If you do drill first try three 1/2 holes in the fcg at 1" deep. This gives you wiggle room for the depth. End mills you want 3/8 shank 3/8 mill 1" LOC 2 or 3 flute. Go slow with the 2 flute. The 4 flute doesn't move the chips out as well. Amazon doesn't have the ideal endmills...that I have found. |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 12:20:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I use centering end mills. So u can plunge a very small amount then get moving. There are lots of charts for milling aluminum with speeds out there. That being said without proper hold down of the jig, proper feeding speed it's almost impossible to say for sure. Have you contacted Randy Spade at Vader Tactical. He has a tutorial out there that is one of the best Google Vader Spade 80% lower. Please be careful. One wrong move and you could ruin the lower, your press, jig and a bunch of fingers in a blink of an eye! PasoGunner Also grabbed a drill press milling vise from HF. |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 1:36:36 PM EDT
[#20]
you can plunge drill/mill with your endmill. Only if it's a center cutting end mill. Many aren't, especially 3/8 and larger. End mills you want 3/8 shank 3/8 mill 1" LOC 2 or 3 flute. Go slow with the 2 flute. The 4 flute doesn't move the chips out as well. Amazon doesn't have the ideal endmills...that I have found. Spec for the radii in the AR FCG pocket is .218, ergo a 7/16 (0.4375) cutter. Depth of pocket is 1.249, so a 1" LOC is insufficient for a full depth finishing pass. 4 flute cutters with the correct relief and helix for aluminum will leave a nicer finish than 2 or 3 flute at the speeds a drill press is capable of. They're also less prone to chatter than a 2 flute. In short, no, a 1" LOC 3/8" 2 or 3 flute is NOT what he wants. A 7/16", 1.5"-2" LOC 3 or 4 flute is what he needs (more than 4 flutes won't work well, since he cannot apply the pressure and feed rate needed to use those with a drill press and cross slide vise). Kind of a moot point anyway, since he already bought whatever he bought. |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 1:49:53 PM EDT
[#21]
OP: you should buy a couple blocks of aluminum of the right kind that are larger than the lower, put them in the vice, and practice making chips. You need to learn on something cheaper than your lower.
I use BOELUBE for cutting aluminum. Good stuff. |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 2:06:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Great advice RyJones if OP has never milled any aluminum practice is a great idea. He could always get a cheap forged lower on sale to practice on instead of ruining the Quebtin Defense lower
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Posted: 4/16/2015 2:14:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only if it's a center cutting end mill. Many aren't, especially 3/8 and larger. I find more availability in center cutting in 3/8" Spec for the radii in the AR FCG pocket is .218, ergo a 7/16 (0.4375) cutter. Depth of pocket is 1.249, so a 1" LOC is insufficient for a full depth finishing pass. 4 flute cutters with the correct relief and helix for aluminum will leave a nicer finish than 2 or 3 flute at the speeds a drill press is capable of. They're also less prone to chatter than a 2 flute. In short, no, a 1" LOC 3/8" 2 or 3 flute is NOT what he wants. A 7/16", 1.5"-2" LOC 3 or 4 flute is what he needs (more than 4 flutes won't work well, since he cannot apply the pressure and feed rate needed to use those with a drill press and cross slide vise). Kind of a moot point anyway, since he already bought whatever he bought. Quote HistoryQuoted:
you can plunge drill/mill with your endmill. Only if it's a center cutting end mill. Many aren't, especially 3/8 and larger. I find more availability in center cutting in 3/8" End mills you want 3/8 shank 3/8 mill 1" LOC 2 or 3 flute. Go slow with the 2 flute. The 4 flute doesn't move the chips out as well. Amazon doesn't have the ideal endmills...that I have found. Spec for the radii in the AR FCG pocket is .218, ergo a 7/16 (0.4375) cutter. Depth of pocket is 1.249, so a 1" LOC is insufficient for a full depth finishing pass. 4 flute cutters with the correct relief and helix for aluminum will leave a nicer finish than 2 or 3 flute at the speeds a drill press is capable of. They're also less prone to chatter than a 2 flute. In short, no, a 1" LOC 3/8" 2 or 3 flute is NOT what he wants. A 7/16", 1.5"-2" LOC 3 or 4 flute is what he needs (more than 4 flutes won't work well, since he cannot apply the pressure and feed rate needed to use those with a drill press and cross slide vise). Kind of a moot point anyway, since he already bought whatever he bought. I gave my recommendation to one who has limited knowledge. I don't think OP really want to take large bits like that on his first one. So yes 1" LOC and using the jig will be perfect. Another over 1" LOC will be introducing the op to a possibility of hitting his cutter of the edge of the jig. This is just advice to aid the first time person. Finish will be more than fine from 2 or 3 flute. I stand by my wording |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 2:28:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Buy the "random length" of this: aluminum. you should be able to cut about six or eight FCG pockets in one block and gain a lot of experience.
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Posted: 4/16/2015 2:43:36 PM EDT
[#25]
I gave my recommendation to one who has limited knowledge. I don't think OP really want to take large bits like that on his first one. So yes 1" LOC and using the jig will be perfect. Another over 1" LOC will be introducing the op to a possibility of hitting his cutter of the edge of the jig. This is just advice to aid the first time person. Finish will be more than fine from 2 or 3 flute.
I stand by my wording Sounds like common core; "Ffirst we're gonna deliberately restrict your understanding of the subject, then we'll teach you a really convoluted way to arrive at an answer (not the answer). Then we'll tell ya you done good even if you're not quite right, and we'll send you off into the world to figure shit out on your own with the limited information we offered you. Good luck!" Personally, I'd rather instruct someone on the right way to do something out of the gate, even if the learning curve is a little steeper. If you coddle folks and treat them as though they won't be able to accomplish the more difficult tasks, the bar is just plain lower. We already have a generation defined by lazy idiots because we tried to make everything easier for them. |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 3:57:33 PM EDT
[#26]
ok guy. agree to disagree. carry on
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Posted: 4/16/2015 9:38:46 PM EDT
[#27]
I bought the 4 fluted 2 in it is working great just going slow. I did a bit today to try it out gotta go supper slow glad I opted for the milling vise it is a must.
I did have trouble with the side holes, tried the 5/32 with some regular bit and it wouldnt penetrate at all. I am guessing I need a cobalt bit for these? |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 10:08:33 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought the 4 fluted 2 in it is working great just going slow. I did a bit today to try it out gotta go supper slow glad I opted for the milling vise it is a must. I did have trouble with the side holes, tried the 5/32 with some regular bit and it wouldnt penetrate at all. I am guessing I need a cobalt bit for these? Strange, is the bit dull perhaps? Or maybe even a left-handed bit? |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 10:17:42 PM EDT
[#29]
I am guessing I need a cobalt bit for these? No. Even the cheapest of twist drills have no problem in aluminum (although hard anodizing can take some pressure to break through) Having said that, cobalt bits are harder, so will be less prone to walking and flexing. |
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Posted: 4/16/2015 10:34:18 PM EDT
[#30]
must be the anodizing couldnt imagine it being this hard either way I am getting a new bit tomorrow.
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:48:46 AM EDT
[#31]
Buy quality American, European, or Japanese made drill bits, end-mills, (or tools) it is worth the slightly higher cost in the long
run when doing a scratch build/80% build for example...the Chinese made parts are generally useless or of Inferior quality... I am aware that finding non Chinese made parts, drills, end-mills, and tools can sometimes be a real challenge and when you do they can and often do cost more than the Chinese made versions, but IMHO are worth the extra cost. The upside is you also help keep American jobs here were they belong. |
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Posted: 4/17/2015 9:32:49 PM EDT
[#32]
I must say that bit sure was dull.....I checked it out this morning and it was all rounded off. Needless to say the new carbide hhs bits I got from milwaukee went right through it like it was tin foil.
The FCG is about half done just didnt have time to finish up yet looking smooth and I am really enjoying learning about milling! |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 10:47:48 AM EDT
[#33]
Ive always used RIfleConnection stuff.
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