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Page AR-15 » Build It Yourself
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Posted: 1/27/2015 4:23:55 PM EDT
I purchased a Spikes Tactical barrel that stated tithe following:  "All Chambers are Individually Checked for Head Spacing Before and After Plating."  This is my first build, so my question is, do I also need the headspace Go/NoGo gauges?  Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/27/2015 4:43:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Headspace?  What's that?



Mine is running fine... just threw it together like Legos.
Link Posted: 1/27/2015 5:12:31 PM EDT
[#2]
I like Spikes, but I would never the less check Go and No-go.
Bolts have tolerances and do vary by a couple of thousandths.
Link Posted: 1/27/2015 7:04:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Spike's statement says more about the quality and consistency of their plating process than about whether you need to test headspace with your bolt.  And I think you do need to check it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2015 10:01:25 PM EDT
[#4]
It's always best practice to check headspace when installing a new barrel, just my .02
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 2:05:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Yes, check it. And do it before you install the barrel, just in case you have an issue and need to return it.
Also, you do not need to dis-assemble the bolt if you do it before barrel installation. And of course use the
bolt you are going to use in that rifle.

Other threads have stated that these are good and inexpensive gages (set of three - Go, No-Go, Field - about $60 ???):

http://www.mansonreamers.com
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 8:48:54 AM EDT
[#6]
My Forster gages require bolt disassembly for loose or installed barrels.
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 11:31:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Headspacing is a combination of the barrel, extension, and bolt. You can change headspacing by changing the bolt.

Even if the barrel passed headspace check with Spike's bolt, it may not pass with yours.

Check it anyway.
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 5:43:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My Forster gages require bolt disassembly for loose or installed barrels.
View Quote

5-10 minutes of effort is worth being able to return an out-of-spec barrel.  A lot of places won't take a return for any part that's been installed...
Link Posted: 1/31/2015 1:33:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Check to be sure,Peace of mind is nice with head space questions. No guessing.
Quoted:
I purchased a Spikes Tactical barrel that stated tithe following:  "All Chambers are Individually Checked for Head Spacing Before and After Plating."  This is my first build, so my question is, do I also need the headspace Go/NoGo gauges?  Thanks.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/31/2015 1:54:15 AM EDT
[#10]
When in doubt...

No.  Screw that.

You're building an upper?

With a barrel and a bolt from two different sources?

Check it.  Period.  End of story.

Link Posted: 1/31/2015 3:07:59 AM EDT
[#11]
You do not need to remove the ejector and extractor with the Forster gauges if you are just checking headspace.  However you do need to follow the rule of just light thumb pressure and no more when trying to close the bolt.  Now, it would be different if you were cutting the chamber with a reamer to match the depth to the GO gauge, then you would need to strip the bolt to get the exact feel for when the bolt is about to close so you don't ream too much.   I keep all my rifles in the GO and NOGO range with Forster .223 gauges for best accuracy and safety.    With the many manufacturers of bolts (including imports from Taiwan) the headspace can vary a lot from one brand to another.    Then there is the legal liability of building your upper.  If something should go wrong and it blows up, will the manufacturer or you be liable if you didn't check headspace?  What if someone gets injured.   It could likely be ammo related, but if you didn't check headspace,  the ammo manufacturer may not be liable?
Link Posted: 1/31/2015 9:33:00 AM EDT
[#12]
Thanks for all of your replays/insight; a set of go/no go guages has been ordered.
Link Posted: 1/31/2015 5:52:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
When in doubt...

No.  Screw that.

You're building an upper?

With a barrel and a bolt from two different sources?

Check it.  Period.  End of story.

View Quote

Link Posted: 2/2/2015 2:27:02 AM EDT
[#14]
I milled a clearance  slot for my gauges for the extractor..
Link Posted: 2/2/2015 4:51:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Headspace is set when the barrel manufacturer puts the extension on the barrel. And can not be changed. As long as you have a new barrel and new bolt BOTH from reputable manufacturers 99.9% of the time you are GTG. New bolt old barrel, old bolt new barrel I would check, but nothing wrong with erroring on the safe side. Most gunsmiths have the gauges and can check it for little to nothing.

Edit, unless you take off and put on a new extension.
Link Posted: 2/2/2015 6:08:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted: Headspace is set when the barrel manufacturer puts the extension on the barrel.
View Quote

Yes and no. When barrel's are machined, and the barrel extension is installed; only the barrel portion of a chamber's headspace is set.

Which the specification from the inside edge of the barrel extension's lugs to the 0.330" datum line is 1.6206" with an allowable tolerance of 0.000". As for the bolt, from the rear edge of the bolt's lugs to the bolt-face, the specification is 0.156" with an allowable tolerance of -0.003".

Headspace is then determined when the bolt's measurement of 0.156" is subtracted from the barrel's measurement of 1.6206. This will equal a headspace measuring 1.4646". This is the military specification for minimum headspace of a new barrel that has been high pressure tested (HPT).



Link Posted: 2/2/2015 8:12:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Headspace is set when the barrel manufacturer puts the extension on the barrel. And can not be changed. As long as you have a new barrel and new bolt BOTH from reputable manufacturers 99.9% of the time you are GTG. New bolt old barrel, old bolt new barrel I would check, but nothing wrong with erroring on the safe side. Most gunsmiths have the gauges and can check it for little to nothing.

Edit, unless you take off and put on a new extension.
View Quote
Of course nobody's going to change the headspace of a new barrel.  But what we're talking about is testing the headspace with the builder's combination of a specific bolt and a specific barrel.  It didn't used to be such an issue, but it's different today than when I did my first build in the mid-80s.  When there were only a couple of sources for bolts and for barrels, it wasn't such a big deal, but now, with dozens and dozens of manufacturers making both bolts and barrels, it's no longer such a sure thing.

A Forster GO and NO GO gauge cost about $30 each, and will let you know that the combination of bolt and barrel that you are testing has at least a minimum chamber headspace (GO) and does not have more than the maximum chamber headspace (NO GO).  The NO GO gauge is essential because a NEW part should not get you anywhere near maximum headspace.  Likewise, the tolerances in a combination of a new bolt and barrel could "stack" in the wrong direction and give you too little headspace.

While some people think it's a hassle to disassemble a bolt for a headspace check, it's not something you're going to do daily.  It takes 5 or 10 minutes to tear down the bolt, do the test, put everything back together, and clean up.  In exchange for KNOWING my bolt and barrel combination are safe, I'll gladly spend that much time.  And I'll point out that in some cases, you WILL find unsafe combinations.  My first 300 Blackout barrel wasn't properly chambered - it would not pass a GO gauge check, meaning that the chamber wasn't deep enough.  I tested the barrel with multiple bolts just to be sure, and it wouldn't pass with any bolt.  Since I tested it before I installed the barrel, it wasn't a problem to return that barrel for replacement (some vendors won't take back a barrel that's been installed, even if it's never been fired).  As it turns out, this barrel was from a batch that the manufacturer had "problems" with, and my vendor returned the whole batch.    Yeah, it was really worth my time to do that test.

Link Posted: 2/2/2015 1:17:29 PM EDT
[#18]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Headspace is set when the barrel manufacturer puts the extension on the barrel. And can not be changed. As long as you have a new barrel and new bolt BOTH from reputable manufacturers 99.9% of the time you are GTG. New bolt old barrel, old bolt new barrel I would check, but nothing wrong with erroring on the safe side. Most gunsmiths have the gauges and can check it for little to nothing.





Edit, unless you take off and put on a new extension.---still incomplete info because there is not bolt to measure back to.
View Quote
Please pay attention to the million and five headspace threads in the last 6 months where we explain how headspace measures back to the bolt face.  And if you do not have the bolt you will you use on the build you cannot possibly have an accurate headspace accounting.  Will you be GTG? Who knows.  But you will for sure stress your brand new components you spent your hard earned money for and put premature wear on them, not getting your monies worth, if your headspace is out of tolerance.  And the number grows, the end of 2014 I had seen 3 barrels/bolt combo's out of tolerance, add one more to that as of last weekend.  All too tight, thus putting additional stress on the unit.   So yes guys can do it your way.  But it is a very non-thorough slip shod way of doing things.   YMMV, mine does not.  


 
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