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Posted: 12/16/2014 6:08:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I'm 18 and want to build my own AR but ran into the problem of being under 21 at my local gun shop and was wondering if its legal to buy an AR 15 lower off a of a private gun broker user and would that be considered a private sale? Generally no. At least not unless they are a resident of your state and you can complete the transaction FTF. Not all states permit that either, I don't know about whether MI permits FTF sales or not. Some states don't permit sales of 18-21 for private sales either, although Texas does and I'm assuming that since your asking MI may be the same. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 6:10:22 PM EDT
[#2]
If you buy a lower online and it needs to be shipped, it has to be shipped to a FLL dealer. You will run into the same age restrictions when you go to pick it up.
If you buy one FTF, things may be different, I don't know. ETA: nevermind, if it is a private sale on gunbroker I don't know how that would work. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 6:10:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Oh... one possible "loophole" you might consider is machining your own lower from an 80% blank. Since they are non-firearms before completion you can buy one at any age and have it shipped directly to you. It will cost you more that way, especially if you have to buy a jig and some tools... but it is an option for those 18-20.
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Posted: 12/16/2014 6:18:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh... one possible "loophole" you might consider is machining your own lower from an 80% blank. Since they are non-firearms before completion you can buy one at any age and have it shipped directly to you. It will cost you more that way, especially if you have to buy a jig and some tools... but it is an option for those 18-20. you think I could have my local gun shop drill it out for me? |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 6:31:42 PM EDT
[#5]
NO they can not
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Posted: 12/16/2014 6:36:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Check Michigan laws. Then ask mom & dad for one for Christmas
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Posted: 12/16/2014 6:48:44 PM EDT
[#7]
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Check Michigan laws. Then ask mom & dad for one for Christmas Yes, that is the route that needs to be taken. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 7:26:01 PM EDT
[#8]
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Yes, that is the route that needs to be taken. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Check Michigan laws. Then ask mom & dad for one for Christmas Yes, that is the route that needs to be taken. Just asked Santa (mom) for an anderson Lower thanks guys |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 8:18:46 PM EDT
[#9]
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Just asked Santa (mom) for an anderson Lower thanks guys Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Check Michigan laws. Then ask mom & dad for one for Christmas Yes, that is the route that needs to be taken. Just asked Santa (mom) for an anderson Lower thanks guys Good luck buddy. Better treat mama right. AR-15's are the devil! So is foosball. Everything's the devil to you mama! |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 9:36:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Does MI have some commie rule where you have to be 21 to buy long guns?
Last I checked you only had to be 21 to buy handguns Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 10:24:42 PM EDT
[#11]
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Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 10:46:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Oh... one possible "loophole" you might consider is machining your own lower from an 80% blank. Since they are non-firearms before completion you can buy one at any age and have it shipped directly to you. It will cost you more that way, especially if you have to buy a jig and some tools... but it is an option for those 18-20. This. There is no federal statute prohibiting an 18-20 year old from manufacturing any title I firearm, including handguns. And those <18 can legally manufacture a rifle or shotgun, as there is no minimum age to possess or privately purchase either. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 11:24:36 PM EDT
[#13]
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Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 2:39:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Would it be legal for him to buy a complete lower?
I get so confused with the gun laws as they pertain to lowers, and AR rifles vs AR pistols and the whole thing with the stock.... But if he buys a complete lower with a rifle stock on it, it's technically a rifle lower isn't it? |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 3:21:34 AM EDT
[#15]
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Would it be legal for him to buy a complete lower? I get so confused with the gun laws as they pertain to lowers, and AR rifles vs AR pistols and the whole thing with the stock.... But if he buys a complete lower with a rifle stock on it, it's technically a rifle lower isn't it? No, it's not a rifle until 16"+ barreled upper has been installed with the stock in place. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:46:15 AM EDT
[#16]
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They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down This x1000! |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 9:02:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Other because it could be built as a rifle or a pistol. Since it could be built as a pistol you have to be 21 in order to purchase it. There isn't to many FFL holders that would risk the loss of their license in order to make $20-30 bucks on a receiver transfer.
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Posted: 12/17/2014 11:59:18 AM EDT
[#18]
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Other because it could be built as a rifle or a pistol. Since it could be built as a pistol you have to be 21 in order to purchase it. There isn't to many FFL holders that would risk the loss of their license in order to make $20-30 bucks on a receiver transfer. You do not have to be 21 to purchase a handgun (or anything else besides complete rifles or shotguns). You have to be 21 for an FFL to sell or transfer one to you, which is not the same thing. It's perfectly legal (federally) to make or buy handguns and receivers and most NFA firearms in private in-state sales - the prohibition on FFL transfers just prevents you from doing it at retail or buying from out of state sellers. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:08:25 PM EDT
[#19]
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They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down When I bought my Spike's lower they transferred it to me as an "Other"; does this mean that I could at some point if I decided to change it to something other than a rifle I could? I too get confused with the laws. I'm not saying I'd ever change it because I'd just build another one from a new lower. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:46:45 PM EDT
[#20]
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When I bought my Spike's lower they transferred it to me as an "Other"; does this mean that I could at some point if I decided to change it to something other than a rifle I could? I too get confused with the laws. I'm not saying I'd ever change it because I'd just build another one from a new lower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down When I bought my Spike's lower they transferred it to me as an "Other"; does this mean that I could at some point if I decided to change it to something other than a rifle I could? I too get confused with the laws. I'm not saying I'd ever change it because I'd just build another one from a new lower. From what I remember, which ain't much anymore, you can go rifle to pistol but not pistol to rifle. Check over in the pistol section, they have plenty of info if your interested. On a different note, as said before owning a handgun or stripped lower is not outlawed at state level, you just can't have it transferred by an FFL. Check your state laws, even with your parents giving it to you. Colorado just, almost, banned anybody under 21 from purchasing a handgun or lower by requiring all FTF sales to go through a FFL. I believe they exempted family from giving to family and loaning a weapon to somebody. Everything was also grandfathered in as well. I don't have that problem, yet, so I'm not 100%. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 3:50:33 PM EDT
[#21]
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Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down This x1000! THIS if its not legal for you to purchase the firearm you want to purchase, it's NOT legal. knowingly subverting an existing law because you want to purchase a firearm which would be otherwise illegal for you to purchase is still breaking the law. it's a really good way to get your ass thrown in jail and possibly losing the right to own a legal firearm in the future. in my opinion, it isnt' worth it. (although, I have to say that I believe that it is legal for a minor to purchase a rifle or shotgun if a parent or guardian is present) |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 4:32:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THIS if its not legal for you to purchase the firearm you want to purchase, it's NOT legal. knowingly subverting an existing law because you want to purchase a firearm which would be otherwise illegal for you to purchase is still breaking the law. it's a really good way to get your ass thrown in jail and possibly losing the right to own a legal firearm in the future. in my opinion, it isnt' worth it. (although, I have to say that I believe that it is legal for a minor to purchase a rifle or shotgun if a parent or guardian is present) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down This x1000! THIS if its not legal for you to purchase the firearm you want to purchase, it's NOT legal. knowingly subverting an existing law because you want to purchase a firearm which would be otherwise illegal for you to purchase is still breaking the law. it's a really good way to get your ass thrown in jail and possibly losing the right to own a legal firearm in the future. in my opinion, it isnt' worth it. (although, I have to say that I believe that it is legal for a minor to purchase a rifle or shotgun if a parent or guardian is present) FFL purchase and FTF purchase are different unless state law has a say. Often, in states allowing FTF sales, you're perfectly free to purchase a handgun at 18-20 FTF. As OP decided, gift from mom or dad is the way to go. That said, being under 21 (or anyone not concerned with figuring out whether they may get raped in the b-hole crossing in a commie state), it may be prudent for the lower to be definitively registered as a rifle. You could do this by going to an FFL after the rifle is built and having your parents transfer it to you as a rifle. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 4:54:06 PM EDT
[#23]
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you think I could have my local gun shop drill it out for me? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh... one possible "loophole" you might consider is machining your own lower from an 80% blank. Since they are non-firearms before completion you can buy one at any age and have it shipped directly to you. It will cost you more that way, especially if you have to buy a jig and some tools... but it is an option for those 18-20. you think I could have my local gun shop drill it out for me? No! You have to do it yourself. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 4:55:43 PM EDT
[#24]
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They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down A gun shop that employs someone like that will have a big problem next time BATFE comes to inspect their bound book! |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 4:59:31 PM EDT
[#25]
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(although, I have to say that I believe that it is legal for a minor to purchase a rifle or shotgun if a parent or guardian is present) If there is a parent or guardian requirement for 18-20 year olds for buying long guns it may just be in your state. No such law requiring parent or guardian here in TX, nor federal if I'm not mistaken. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 5:03:08 PM EDT
[#26]
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As OP decided, gift from mom or dad is the way to go. That said, being under 21 (or anyone not concerned with figuring out whether they may get raped in the b-hole crossing in a commie state), it may be prudent for the lower to be definitively registered as a rifle. You could do this by going to an FFL after the rifle is built and having your parents transfer it to you as a rifle. What is this "registered" thing you are talking about? 4473 isn't supposed to be registration... FWIW, for rifles there is no issue provided you don't put a < 16" barrel on it (without an SBR tax stamp). It is really only pistols that you need to be concerned with, especially if you possess no short barrel uppers. You can't install a buttstock on a pistol lower and then later put a pistol upper on it. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 6:47:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if its not legal for you to purchase the firearm you want to purchase, it's NOT legal. knowingly subverting an existing law because you want to purchase a firearm which would be otherwise illegal for you to purchase is still breaking the law. it's a really good way to get your ass thrown in jail and possibly losing the right to own a legal firearm in the future. in my opinion, it isnt' worth it. (although, I have to say that I believe that it is legal for a minor to purchase a rifle or shotgun if a parent or guardian is present) As noted above, and elsewhere many times before, it is not illegal for an 18-20 year old to purchase, possess or build a handgun or a receiver, or whatever. It is illegal for an FFL to do the transfer to them. It is a prohibition against the FFL, not the transferee. By not using an FFL, so long as state law does not require one for some reason, no law has been subverted, because the under 21 law does not apply to private persons... just to federal firearms licensees. 18-20 is, in this context, an "underage adult" not a "minor" |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:09:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You do not have to be 21 to purchase a handgun (or anything else besides complete rifles or shotguns). You have to be 21 for an FFL to sell or transfer one to you, which is not the same thing. It's perfectly legal (federally) to make or buy handguns and receivers and most NFA firearms in private in-state sales - the prohibition on FFL transfers just prevents you from doing it at retail or buying from out of state sellers. I guess if that is how you want to think about it. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:25:31 PM EDT
[#29]
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From what I remember, which ain't much anymore, you can go rifle to pistol but not pistol to rifle. Check over in the pistol section, they have plenty of info if your interested. Thanks. I remember hearing that too. I'm in NJ so an AR pistol is a no, no as far as I know. |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 8:40:21 PM EDT
[#30]
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From what I remember, which ain't much anymore, you can go rifle to pistol but not pistol to rifle. Check over in the pistol section, they have plenty of info if your interested. On a different note, as said before owning a handgun or stripped lower is not outlawed at state level, you just can't have it transferred by an FFL. Check your state laws, even with your parents giving it to you. Colorado just, almost, banned anybody under 21 from purchasing a handgun or lower by requiring all FTF sales to go through a FFL. I believe they exempted family from giving to family and loaning a weapon to somebody. Everything was also grandfathered in as well. I don't have that problem, yet, so I'm not 100%. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stripped lower are normally papered as long guns, unless you ask for to be papered as a handgun Stripped lowers are transferred as "other," since they are not a complete firearm. They are transferred as what ever the idiot at the gun shop puts down When I bought my Spike's lower they transferred it to me as an "Other"; does this mean that I could at some point if I decided to change it to something other than a rifle I could? I too get confused with the laws. I'm not saying I'd ever change it because I'd just build another one from a new lower. From what I remember, which ain't much anymore, you can go rifle to pistol but not pistol to rifle. Check over in the pistol section, they have plenty of info if your interested. On a different note, as said before owning a handgun or stripped lower is not outlawed at state level, you just can't have it transferred by an FFL. Check your state laws, even with your parents giving it to you. Colorado just, almost, banned anybody under 21 from purchasing a handgun or lower by requiring all FTF sales to go through a FFL. I believe they exempted family from giving to family and loaning a weapon to somebody. Everything was also grandfathered in as well. I don't have that problem, yet, so I'm not 100%. Got the transition backward....you can build a pistol into a rifle and back to a pistol.......but if FIRST built as a rifle it is always a rifle..... |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 9:44:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is this "registered" thing you are talking about? 4473 isn't supposed to be registration... FWIW, for rifles there is no issue provided you don't put a < 16" barrel on it (without an SBR tax stamp). It is really only pistols that you need to be concerned with, especially if you possess no short barrel uppers. You can't install a buttstock on a pistol lower and then later put a pistol upper on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As OP decided, gift from mom or dad is the way to go. That said, being under 21 (or anyone not concerned with figuring out whether they may get raped in the b-hole crossing in a commie state), it may be prudent for the lower to be definitively registered as a rifle. You could do this by going to an FFL after the rifle is built and having your parents transfer it to you as a rifle. What is this "registered" thing you are talking about? 4473 isn't supposed to be registration... FWIW, for rifles there is no issue provided you don't put a < 16" barrel on it (without an SBR tax stamp). It is really only pistols that you need to be concerned with, especially if you possess no short barrel uppers. You can't install a buttstock on a pistol lower and then later put a pistol upper on it. Sure, "the transaction record" if we want to be specific. I personally like them to explicitly list what it is. Example, if I ended up with an AR rifle in NY, in a NY legal configuration, that if for some reason they went back to the 4473 I would want it to say rifle. Let's just say I wouldn't want to be a legal test case, no matter how unlikely it may be, for the guy in NY with an AR in a rifle config that was originally a pistol. Currently surrounded by NY and MA so I'm super concerned about anything that may end up with "pistol" associated with it. |
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