Hey guys,... first time poster here, but no stranger to forums by any means :) ...

I'm mostly a pistol guy, but have a few rifles and other misc. long guns... but I've always wanted an AR/M4 style rifle ..

I've been researching for a while now and reading till the screen starts to get all blurry and fuzzy.... I'm starting to get an idea of where I want to go with this build and I'm hoping you guys can sort of keep me from going off the path .... be gentle


So what is the purpose of this rifle:

My initial thoughts are of accuracy and reliability - Even though this wouldn't be a duty weapon or anything, I'd still like to keep the quality "high" as I can with in the budget.

Budget: I'd really like to stay around 1000.00,. but the more I look at things, it'd probably have to be more like around 1500.00 (With out optics)

Looks like now is the time to buy with all of the Black Friday sales going on, and a few manufacturers that have caught my eye have been Aero and PSA ( I'm Really diggin' the Aero stuff for some reason..?)


Looks like there's a max of 2000 characters on first post, so I've give more details and thoughts on next post...

Thanks in advance,
Rick

So a couple of questions,..

1 - Is it cheaper to buy "Stripped" lower and upper pieces,.. or are package deals more cost effective?... say like a Complete upper and Lower? ... or even a complete rifle knowing that I may have to change things on it to get it where I want it to be?

2. - Accuracy - From what I've read, I'm leaning towards an 18" SS Match Grade barrel (Fluted)...say from like Wilson combat or White Oak (Or other suggestions?).... I know this will be one of the pricier pieces, but I don't think I can skimp on this if it's accuracy I'm after(?) - And maybe I'll have to purchase the Match barrel after the fact if it's cheaper to get a complete upper initially,.. then swap the barrel out later down the road a ways?

3. - Cosmetics and Rails: Not really sure on this one,... I'm sort of diggin the look of the black lower/upper with FDE stock and gripps and rail... I know most of that is personal preference, but not sure on rail length and options on that stuff.. ?



That's about it right now... here are some of the things that I "like", but don't know if they'll fit into my build or not... maybe you guys can chime in on them?

Complete Lower: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lowers/complete-lowers/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-ctr-edition-fde-no-magazine.html

Stripped Lower: http://aeroprecisionusa.com/aspx/store/productdetail.aspx?pid=8

BCG:  Fail Zero AR-15 Basic EXO Coated Bolt Carrier Group and Hammer


Thanks again!
Rick

If you can find a complete upper and or lower that is exactly what you want, that will be cheaper. Building usually only saves money over buying completed guns, upper or lowers, then changing out or upgrading half of the stuff. Even then it usually doesn't save money, because that stuff can be resold on the EE or kept as spares.

If you know what you want it is almost always cheaper to build the rifle. Aside from profit markup there is a Federal excise tax on firearms that increases the retail price.
Your $1000 to $1500 dollar budget gives you a very wide range of choices in parts. If your budget was $500 not so much.
The most expensive individual part on your rifle will probably be the barrel and or rail if you want one.

You say that you want accuracy and reliability and mention a match barrel. Keep in mind that tight chamber/throat dimensions improve accuracy and  usually reduce reliability. More generous throat dimensions and more loose part fitment improve reliability and the ability to operate in less than ideal conditions.
So accuracy and reliability are at odds to a degree.

You could easily spend less than $200 on a complete lower assembly and decent money on a barrel and rail and should be well below your $1000.
It all depends on what you want and deals you find.

Thanks for the replies guys!... as usual I spent a lot of the day doing more research(Homework :) ) .... and ended up talking to Chris at Aero,... he was EXTREMELY helpful and patient with me. ...

So here's where I'm leaning at this point:

Complete Lower Assembly with this special addition Lower and and Magpul CRT stock and pistol grip in FDE ( Even though thats not an option on their sight, Chris said they could basically put together any combination of items in a package deal and save some money.  )

http://aeroprecisionusa.com/aspx/store/productdetail.aspx?pid=174

Complete M4E1 upper (Black Anodized) with 13" Enhanced handguard w/ Key Mod in FDE , 16" stainless barrel in Wylde .223 (I'll plan on swapping out the barrel for a MatchGrade one at a later date...)

Something like this: http://aeroprecisionusa.com/aspx/store/productdetail.aspx?pid=318

Here's the actual upper:  http://aeroprecisionusa.com/aspx/store/productdetail.aspx?pid=252


So how's that looking thus far?..

I understand the give and take of accuracy vs. reliability,.. I think in the end I'd rather lean towards accuracy over all,... don't see me tracking through the desert or rainforest with this thing ;)

So what are the next things to focus on?... BCG, Charging handle....?..

The two main items are the barrel and BCG. They make up a good portion of the accuracy.
Another can be the trigger group if you lean towards target shooting.
Everything else is details.

Maybe if you can get all of your parts on sale, with free shipping it is cheaper. But that will take a long time, and require a decent amount of patience. Plus you have the expense of the tools. I say most of the time it's cheaper to buy complete rifles or at least complete uppers/lowers.

A good trigger.

If you swap barrels, a build will be cheaper than buying. But that is only part of the expense of match grade accuracy. Have you priced match grade ammo versus milsurp? It's about 3X as expensive unless you are loading your own. Most above average shooters can get combat accuracy out to 400-500 meters with a 14-16" barrel and military grade ammo. To get much better requires a lot of time and money in addition to the right barrel.

I agree that a good trigger (SSAE for me) is a high priority upgrade, along with a good optic, and a sling.

3 important pieces:

Barrel
Optic
Trigger

1 somewhat important piece:

BCG

The rest while still important, are more personal preference...

I like my CMC 3.5 straight bow trigger the best, but the Geissele's are really popular here.

Rooster - I honestly did overlook the "Ammo" factor on this,... I would say I probably will just shoot "good" factory ammo for the most part and pick up some match grade "when it counts" :) .... But I still want the rifle to shoot to the best of it's abilities (or better than mine ..  ) regardless of the ammo if that makes any sense (?) At some point I would like to get into loading my own,.. but I don't see that happening for a while yet..

I haven't even started looking at optics yet,.. I know that those can potentially cost more than the rifle depending... I'll probably get something mid-range'ish to start out with and the upgrade as funds come available .... seems like for 200-300 you can get into something "Decent" (?)

Trigger - I've been reading up on those as well,... still doing my homework and trying to decide.

BCG - Leaning towards a good one but with a chrome/nickle type finish (my one vain purchase for the rifle... I think that just looks cool!  )  .... searching around I found this one, but haven't researched it yet... :

http://primeweaponry.com/collections/ar15-m16-bolt-carrier-group/products/nib-ice-nitride-qpq-hybrid

Hoping Aero has some smokin' deals going on Monday :)

Most people forget, especially starting out, that quality ammo is as important as the gun for accuracy.

If you want a really good barrel, I'd recommend looking around. In addition to the good barrels you already mentioned, AR Performance makes really good barrels, I have one in my 6.8. I also have Green Mountain and Vodoo 16" barrels on 556 ARs. Both can shoot 1 MOA with XM855 about half of the time. I have a CMMG 20" fluted heavy barrel. It is sub MOA with 65 gr Sierra game king and 26 grains of Varget.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy from ARP, Green Mountain, Vodoo, or CMMG again. Those barrels combined with milsurp or hand loads shoot really well. I'd go with the best deal I could find in the profile/length I was looking for.

ARP fluted 18"Melonite barrel

Vodoo 18" lightweight

Green Mountain 18" 1/8 twist (not fluted)

CMMG 18" $209

Two other companies with great reps on this website are Rainier and  Noveske. I've always wanted one, but couldn't justify the expense.

Ok thanks again for the info on the Barrels!,.. too many out there, that kind of makes things difficult to decide :)

Good news is that I pulled the trigger on that Lower and upper from Aero P.,... plus my wife's Uncle who is also my Boss want's me to build him one as well... So I ended up getting one of their complete Lower's for 180.00 also. .... I guess I'm about to get real educated on building AR's here pretty quck! haha!

I was really hoping that Aero would have had their 13" Key-Mod handguard on sale today,.... they had the 12's on sale but not the 13's,.. I think 12" is just too short for an 18" barrel (?) .. maybe around Christmas they'll have something.. (?)

Gas tube Length? - I see where they offer both a Mid and a Rifle length for the 18" barrel's ... I've read up a bit on this, but I'm still not sure which is the best way to go,.. Rifle = less recoil (?)... Mid.. ??

Rick

If you go with mid length, and want a FF tube/rail, that will help keep it lighter. Personally, I'd go with rifle length for 18".

I'm not an expert on the pro/con of each gas length, maybe someone who knows more will chime in.

Still sort of leaning towards WOA or Wilson Combat,... from what I understand they both use the same blanks,.. (?) ..  Sent an email to John at WOA today,.. we'll see what he has to say :)

Sort of a side note - who's got one of the best Deals going on complete upper for a Budget build?

John at WOA suggest their SPR barrel in a Mid length gas which is .275.00.. plus another 100 for the fluting...
http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17567&cat=250&page=2

Probably going to go this route unless someone can point me to something of better quality for the same or less $$$ :)

Ok Guys,... she's just about done,...  Still trying to decided if I want a Black or FDE Hand Guard,.. and what size (13 or 15") ... my boys are saying FDE, so that's where I'm leaning at this point...

I still need some BUIS's ... thinking MagPul on those, but prefer something different for the front sight (?).. more traditional for 1/3 Co-witness type set up (?) ..

But here's the list as it's pictured:

AP - M4E1 Enhanced Upper
AP - Special Edition 2nd Amendment Lower (Complete)
WOA - 18" SPR (Stainless Match Grade) w/SDM Fluting (& Stainless LowPro Gas Block and Tube)
WMD - M16 BCG Polished (NiB X)
BCM - Mod 4 Charging Handle
MagPul CTR Stock and Grip


So that's about it in a Nut Shell,... so now on to the IMPORTANT stuff,... PICTURES!!! haha!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/WERNER1/Guns/Edit2_zps7ce6a233.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/WERNER1/Guns/Edit1_zps76f4a634.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/WERNER1/Guns/Edit4_zpscf1de728.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/WERNER1/Guns/Edit5_zps28e8e525.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/WERNER1/Guns/Edit3_zps9a7d8cad.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/WERNER1/Guns/IMAG1337_zpsa848619f.jpg


That's about it for now,... I'll post some more pics when I get the handguard and sights in...

Thanks
Rick

Looks like a great build.