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Posted: 9/19/2014 8:40:07 AM EDT
Are these still legal to buy/possess ??  I've seen a guy at the flea market trying to sell them but I thought they deemed them illegal this last spring ??  Did some searching on the web and far as I can tell it's a no-no.
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 8:44:43 AM EDT
[#1]
They might be considered firearms in their own right, but firearms aren't illegal.        
 
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 8:48:05 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
They might be considered firearms in their own right, but firearms aren't illegal.          
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But wouldn't that make it a firearm with no serial # or manufacture info and therefor illegal to possess or sell ??
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 8:51:05 AM EDT
[#3]

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Quoted:





But wouldn't that make it a firearm with no serial # or manufacture info and therefor illegal to possess or sell ??
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Quoted:



Quoted:

They might be considered firearms in their own right, but firearms aren't illegal.          


But wouldn't that make it a firearm with no serial # or manufacture info and therefor illegal to possess or sell ??
It would mean the manufacturer was in violation of the law.  IIRC their are regulations about removing serial numbers and requirements for manufacturers to have serial numbers, but I don't believe you would be in violation.



My 80% build has no serial number or manufacturers information.





 
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 9:12:37 AM EDT
[#4]
What I'm taking from what I've read is that they were legal at one time  as a 80% and then the ATF or some branch decided this spring that weren't and deemed them a 100% lower with a insert making it a firearm without a serial # or man. info.
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 9:19:27 AM EDT
[#5]
I personally would not have a problem buying one from a guy's table at the flea market. Who knows how many are out there already. It really isn't any different than a regular 80% poly lower. I would recommend a forged or billet 80% though. Where are you in FL?
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 11:21:06 AM EDT
[#6]
They are still legal.  Check out eparmorys website for details and the court case going on.

Don't waste money buying one though.  

Problems I ran into.

Magwell slightly oversized only holds bolt back on standard bolt catch with metal mags.  Gen 3 pmags are a no go without customizing a bolt catch.

Hammer and trigger pin nubs are off side to side.  Caliper each then made a jig with a 3x5 index card using best side.

Rear takedown pin hole off by a couple thousand of an inch.  Had remove some material to work with upper still needs a punch to remove takedown pin.

Rear takedown pin would not sit flush without removing material on exterior near the edge of the pin head.

All detent holes needed cleaned up and enlarged to even accept the detents/springs.

Buffertube threads real rough.  Took way to long to start the buffer tube without cross threading the polymer even after cleanup.

Removing biscuit from FCG area only went to 1.19".  Found that out when trying to install trigger/safety should have checked before then so back into the vise to get .1249" for it to work without altering trigger.

Company produced first without atf determination letter.  Not a big fan of waiting in legal limbo for a couple months.
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 3:51:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Everything Cknugget said about these is confirmed.  I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.
Link Posted: 10/11/2014 8:48:33 PM EDT
[#8]
These jigs seem to imply it is easy....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiHdV5slQps
Link Posted: 10/11/2014 9:00:37 PM EDT
[#9]
I would buy one if they are cheap enough.

Would make a great light weight 22 build
Link Posted: 10/12/2014 11:47:56 PM EDT
[#10]

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Quoted:


These jigs seem to imply it is easy....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiHdV5slQps
View Quote
If you have good basic mechanical skills, it is.



 
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 12:11:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:  Are these still legal to buy/possess ??  I've seen a guy at the flea market trying to sell them but I thought they deemed them illegal this last spring ??  Did some searching on the web and far as I can tell it's a no-no.
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They're certainly legal to posses, if you're not a "prohibited person", ie, got caught beating your SO, or are a convicted felon, dependent on illegal drugs, etc.  They were deemed to be a firearm, and illegally produced w/o a serial number.  The court case is ongoing.

Legal to buy?  That's a grey area @ best.  I shipped mine to a SOT to be turned into a machinegun for research purposes, so I'll never get it back.  (Hint, hint to someone.  )

You can legally buy a non-serialized firearm produced prior to 1968 from anyone w/in your state.  BATFE is claiming that these plastic pieces are unserialized Title 1 "others", produced in violation of the GCA 1968.  EP Armory is disputing that in court.  The court has provided no guidance to those of us w/ EP Armory "80%" lowers - BATFE has only said they are not coming after non-prohibited persons who possess these.

Given you didn't produce a firearm w/o a serial number, and neither did the guy @ the flea market, I don't think BATFE is interested in nailing the customer base except when they can go after a felon or a wife-beater.  So I doubt they're going after the guy @ the flea market, and they're certainly not going to come after you for buying one.
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 12:53:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They're certainly legal to posses, if you're not a "prohibited person", ie, got caught beating your SO, or are a convicted felon, dependent on illegal drugs, etc.  They were deemed to be a firearm, and illegally produced w/o a serial number.  The court case is ongoing.

Legal to buy?  That's a grey area @ best.  I shipped mine to a SOT to be turned into a machinegun for research purposes, so I'll never get it back.  (Hint, hint to someone.  )

You can legally buy a non-serialized firearm produced prior to 1968 from anyone w/in your state.  BATFE is claiming that these plastic pieces are unserialized Title 1 "others", produced in violation of the GCA 1968.  EP Armory is disputing that in court.  The court has provided no guidance to those of us w/ EP Armory "80%" lowers - BATFE has only said they are not coming after non-prohibited persons who possess these.

Given you didn't produce a firearm w/o a serial number, and neither did the guy @ the flea market, I don't think BATFE is interested in nailing the customer base except when they can go after a felon or a wife-beater.  So I doubt they're going after the guy @ the flea market, and they're certainly not going to come after you for buying one.
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Quoted:
Quoted:  Are these still legal to buy/possess ??  I've seen a guy at the flea market trying to sell them but I thought they deemed them illegal this last spring ??  Did some searching on the web and far as I can tell it's a no-no.


They're certainly legal to posses, if you're not a "prohibited person", ie, got caught beating your SO, or are a convicted felon, dependent on illegal drugs, etc.  They were deemed to be a firearm, and illegally produced w/o a serial number.  The court case is ongoing.

Legal to buy?  That's a grey area @ best.  I shipped mine to a SOT to be turned into a machinegun for research purposes, so I'll never get it back.  (Hint, hint to someone.  )

You can legally buy a non-serialized firearm produced prior to 1968 from anyone w/in your state.  BATFE is claiming that these plastic pieces are unserialized Title 1 "others", produced in violation of the GCA 1968.  EP Armory is disputing that in court.  The court has provided no guidance to those of us w/ EP Armory "80%" lowers - BATFE has only said they are not coming after non-prohibited persons who possess these.

Given you didn't produce a firearm w/o a serial number, and neither did the guy @ the flea market, I don't think BATFE is interested in nailing the customer base except when they can go after a felon or a wife-beater.  So I doubt they're going after the guy @ the flea market, and they're certainly not going to come after you for buying one.

To my fellow prisoners - BATFE may not care, but CA DOJ would probably jump at the chance to care the hell out of you for it.
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 1:19:09 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:  To my fellow prisoners - BATFE may not care, but CA DOJ would probably jump at the chance to care the hell out of you for it.
View Quote


Can y'all still do this?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/658247_custom_lower_with_grip_built_into_lower_around_magwell_.html&page=1#i6631389



JLP is a new user w/ mad skillz.  
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 12:30:39 PM EDT
[#14]
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:  To my fellow prisoners - BATFE may not care, but CA DOJ would probably jump at the chance to care the hell out of you for it.


Can y'all still do this?
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/658247_custom_lower_with_grip_built_into_lower_around_magwell_.html&page=1#i6631389
JLP is a new user w/ mad skillz.  


Neat! Hey, I still have the Mahogany bowl I made on a lathe in 9th grade woodshop!! It's 35 years and still holding walnuts and without a single FTF, EVER. Maybe there's hope for us out here.
In actual fact it IS still kosher to do an 80 here, but they're really really hoping we'll think it's not, and failing that, hoping we know we're super bad and evil if we do. It's like a rugby scrum of hyper-parental control-freaks holding an entire state, Stockholm style. Legislature passed a bill requiring completed 80's to be serialized and registered, but inexplicably, J.Moonbeam's veto pen was working quite well this election season. (Can you say "Swing-Voter appeal"?) That said, I wouldn't be caught dead with anything that could be traced back to a bisquit-thingy. AG Kam loves things subject to interpretation, so they can be interpreted in the most restrictive way possible. I'll stick with aluminum for now.
Thanx for the heads-up on JLP's Assault Tree.
Link Posted: 10/13/2014 1:06:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  Neat! Hey, I still have the Mahogany bowl I made on a lathe in 9th grade woodshop!! It's 35 years and still holding walnuts and without a single FTF, EVER. Maybe there's hope for us out here.
In actual fact it IS still kosher to do an 80 here, but they're really really hoping we'll think it's not, and failing that, hoping we know we're super bad and evil if we do. It's like a rugby scrum of hyper-parental control-freaks holding an entire state, Stockholm style. Legislature passed a bill requiring completed 80's to be serialized and registered, but inexplicably, J.Moonbeam's veto pen was working quite well this election season. (Can you say "Swing-Voter appeal"?) That said, I wouldn't be caught dead with anything that could be traced back to a bisquit-thingy. AG Kam loves things subject to interpretation, so they can be interpreted in the most restrictive way possible. I'll stick with aluminum for now.
Thanx for the heads-up on JLP's Assault Tree.
View Quote


Pine's been done before, but it didn't hold up well.  I'm hoping JLP will @ least mill out the FCS & throw a single shot .22"LR upper on it as a pistol.  JLP used a much harder wood than Orion's Hammer.
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