Not a huge gun aficionado so please bear with me.  My knowledge is lacking, but my interest is now piqued so I'll learn fast.  Not a fan of the way things are going; I'll keep the political rant at that.   I want a couple of rifles that I could use if the $hit hits the fan scenario; and tbh some plinking at the range :).
So, not knowing a ton, I did a bit of research and many people say to go AK.  Went to the local shop and they suggested a VZ-2008/CZ-58(clone/rebuild).  While that does hold certain advantages with ammos costs and fear factor of the 7.62; I do have a certain erection factor for the AR15.  What can I say; growing up as a kid/young adult the AR15/M16 was the gun to have.  Also, it seems that many of the reliability issues have been sorted with current designs, ammo, maintenance etc...  While I WILL HAVE something that fires a 7.62 round at some point.  I am determined to build an AR15.  That said, I do have a budget of about $650-800 for the gun minus optics.  The higher end build will need to justify the expense in rationale for either accuracy, longevity etc...  I'm a bit of a cheapskate and tbh not well oiled in shooting so many of the expensive options would probably be over my ability.  I am looking for good bang for the $ and reliability.
So in that mind, what my limited research brought me to that Cheaper than dirt website and a completion kit I like.  But it seems that CTD in some threads I've seen here is looked down upon.  Poor service, or quality I'm not sure.  I'm very noob so please forgive.  The combo I was looking at is this.... http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/8-DTI-RKT100MOEDE
it seemed to have several upgrades that were desirable without breaking the bank. Given a lower pricing, that should leave me plenty of room for nice optics and several spare clips and a pile of ammo to practice with.  

If others have better suggestions I would be very interested in those choices and rationale as to why the suggestion is better.

oh goodie....an AR vs. AK thread in the tech forum.

this should end well.  

Nope not gonna happen... he already has chosen a AR.



 

And a CTD link.

Yes, sorry if the title is misleading.   This concerns AR build only for.

But he admitted to being a cheapskate, that screams AK, no?
chris

MOE garbage?  Is MOE=magpull...... bad?   Sorry for ignorance but in my limited research many people were talking up the magpull upgrades.  If its garbage then I don't want it, but that kit did seem to have better furniture than the base kits, at least to me.

S&W Sport for cheap skate AR's they work well and everyone i've encountered has been good to go.

If you are planning on building on a budget OP then look to PSA and keep an eye out for sales.

I may get that vz2008 too.  But I will build a budget ar15.  Just need bang for the $ to make sense for me.

Also, Cheapskate may have come off wrong.  I just have several hobbies and in certain forums unless you are willing to spend top $ on EVERYTHING people label you a cheapskate.

What I want is GOOD BANG FOR THE$.  If something is junk I don't want it.  Yet, I will NOT be shooting for competition etc...  I don't need a 2k rifle IMO.  I was thinking if I built it myself I could upgrade some things and still stay in my budget, plus get better acquainted with the mechanics etc... of the rifle.  If I was buying something pre built given my budget I'd get the Del-Ton Sport that is about $601.xx at CTD.  I figured that by building I'd upgrade to the Chrome barrel, some better furniture, etc.....  I've read good reviews of that Del-Ton sport; so I figured building one that is somewhat better would get me near mid range quality on the lower end budget??????    At some point, maybe I would want the better more $$ rifle, but for now the cheaper budget will have to do...

Hope that helps some.

*Magpul.

There's only one "L".  Not that there's a banner on every page of arfcom or anything.

Seriously, this topic has no place in a tech forum.  That said, if you want bang for the buck, AK is the way to go.  It won't be as accurate as an AR, but it's cheaper to shoot.  I have lots of both.  Each has its uses.

From what I understand, CTD gets a bad rap because they went from selling gun stuff to saying they wouldn't after Sandy Hook and the bad PR hit them, then flipped back over when they realized they'd lose too much business.

Palmetto State sells something similar to the del-ton kit for just $440. That plus even the "pricey" forged lowers like Spikes gets you a working rifle for $550 easy.  If you later (or immediately) want to upgrade a little for increased durability, I'dd suggest replacing the barrel with a Daniel Defense CHF barrel, which runs about $289.  Pricey yes, but you never hear bad about them.

Edit: To be honest, I never noticed much difference between a MOE handguard and regular GI.  It's nicer, yes, but there's a much larger difference in feel - and price- between those and a free float tube/handguard that you could easily swap out for down the line

thx for the lesson.  I realize posts from noobs are irritating to the gurus such as yourself.  Where should I post such trivial asshat questions that wouldn't offend you?

As far as AK's go, is it the ammo costs that people covet?  For a good AK I'm not sure where to go etc...  That said, even if I got an AK or VZ2008; I do want to build an AR that fits in my stated budget.  I may be a bit "cheap" but I do like variety.  Even considering a .308 or 7.62x39 AR down the road if I like shooting as much as I think I will.

I do have a few guns.  Rugar 9mm, Rugar 10/22, 22 pistol, Older 12 gauge etc...  Having been busy with work, life, family, kids etc...  I just haven't gotten much time in shooting in the past 10yrs.  That will change in time.

Sorry, NO Magpul makes a fine product for its intended purpose.  I have many of their other products.  Its just that the noobs gravitate towards their products like its a must have item, well its not. But its not going to make your SHTF rifle shoot any better than the standard... it just looks better. I'm just trying to save you 40 bucks on your first build and you can use that extra 40 to buy a few extra magpul mags. extra mags are way more important than MOE furniture in SHTF scenario..



 

GD.  I don't go there, and this topic is perfect for that section of the site.  

Thx for the advice.  SHTF is the fallback scenario.  I guess TBH mostly it will be a nice plinker and all around practice rifle.  Something I want to look and feel good.  $40 isn't bad for me if it feels and seems nicer.  If it's purely looks and no better feel, then I'll save the $.  I do appreciate a better feel though, higher quality feel if that makes sense.  But given my total lack of experience I really have no basis for comparison, just looks and reviews I've read :O

That's cool that you are thinking about it from several viewpoints. Go ahead and get the CTD one then.... Delton makes a fine rifle.  I have two. Ones a plinker and the other I shoot Highpower with. I also have PSA kits.  All are super values, especially if you are starting out.



 

thx :).  Yeah, maybe I relayed my intent wrong, sometime I my communication skills suck :(.  

Having several expensive hobbies; what I've found is that the beginner shit to me is just junk.  Modifying Cars(Vettes, F-bodies, Mustangs etc..), Computer overclocking, RC aircraft, etc...   Not saying that AR stuff is the same, but several hobbies with same results of beginner stuff, ie entry level I quickly get tired of.  That is my basis of upgrading somewhat reasonably price wise off of that base price level.  I've found it "cheaper" to buy right, than buy cheap.   I do like NICE stuff, but if I get into this hobby that hardcore, I'd be doing a 2k rifle at that point lol.  But, the drive for this whole learning curve is that SHTF scenario, and while yes an AK is probably better, the AR does hold that appeal to me for whatever reason.  An AK or VZ2008 WILL FIND it's way home at some point :).  At this stage in the hobby for me, quantity is more than quality as I just don't have the ability to appreciate the differences other than price.  I don't think I'd be able to use the extra "ability" of a 2k rifle at this point, and funds are not what they used to be :(.  That said, what drew me to that CTD combo was the chrome moly lined heavier  barrel vs the normal $600-700 AR built; the upgraded furniture, and the upper seemed to be plated or something that I read will help feeds, and if you wanted to run cheap eastern bloc ammo, it may feed better?

/thread

It's amazing how times change. Once upon a time you could get an AK for $350 and couldn't touch an AR for less than $700.  Now there are a ton of AR kits for $450. Throw in a PSA blem for $50.  I haven't checked AK prices lately but you won't find any for $350.

I've had good luck with Palmetto State Armory. I got a lower build kit I used on an 80% and it worked great. I bought but have not built, a couple of their blem lowers.  One had an area the size of my little finger nail where the finish a looked like painted steel does with it gets a bit of rust under the paint. The other one looked find.

Even though it probably doesn't matter much, I'd say spend the extra money on a chrome lined barrel.  I'm not one to baby my guns. Knowing that the bore can't rust is nice when you pull it out of the safe and realize you haven't cleaned it in a long time.

You mentioned ammo, you should think about reloading.  You won't save any money. But you will shoot a lot more.

Ended up with

Del-Ton Mid length upper assembly-they had a sale on their site, which tbh wasn't but a few bucks cheaper than some other retailers, but I guess I like buying direct on that for whatever reason.
http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Barrel_Assembly_p/dt1023.htm

Anderson stripped lower
Spike's Tactical AR-15 Lower Parts Kit LPK SLPK101
ATI AR-15 Strikeforce Stock and Pistol Grip with Scorpion Recoil System and Buffer Tube Desert Tan A.2.20.1053
Magpul AR-15 MOE Mid Length Drop In Handguard Polymer Flat Dark Earth MAG418-FDE
Magpul MBUS AR15 Rear Sight Gen 2 Back Up Flip Up Rear Sight Polymer Flat Dark Earth MAG248-FDE
Magpul PMAG Gen 2 AR-15 Magazine .223 Rem/5.56 NATO 30 Rounds Flat Dark Earth Polymer x 6 and 2 of the black ones

now I gather a bit that Magpul is cheap bling for noobs, which is what I am lol.  I read some that people turn their noses up at that gear.  I get it.  If I get to be super into the hobby, I may form that conclusion too.  But for the $700 or so I'll have invested in this rifle, it seems like a decent trade off between somewhat better gear vs an off the shelf AR in the $600-700 range; at least from what I've seen at the local shops/retailers.  The cheaper built rifles I've handled were ok, but the cheap spec collapsible stocks were pretty loose and I'm 6'4" and I didn't get a good feel from them.  Further, I guess I like the bling of the flat dark earth look.

Anywho, thx for the previous advice all :).  Looking forward to my build as the parts arrive :).  Now I need to research the best places for ammo, targets etc... hehe!

I have no issue with magpul grips or stocks, but I'm not a fan of their handgaurds... save up an extra $100-150 and get a nice freefloat rail system.  Here's a sweet rail for a decent price:  https://www.primaryarms.com/Diamondhead_VRS_T_13_5_Free_Floating_Versa_Base_p/2231.htm

Even though you say this is a SHTF rifle, you will find that you end up taking this baby out for fun more and more often, so if you want the best accuracy out of your rifle go with a freefloat rail setup.

Lastly, AR building isn't a hobby, its an addiction.  One is never enough, and all the items you upgrade over time will be parts for the next build!

Enjoy!

Agreed.  I had an AK that I got cheap last year, it was over $500 plus shipping plus local fee.  $600 and it was NOTHING special.  As far as ammo, yes maybe a bit cheaper, but not that much.  And as far as building one, you can't get decent parts kit for under $400 plus a barrel, plus a receiver.  I'm working on an AR build and I'm thinking I can get it done for about the $500 and have something that I can actually hit the side of a barn with:)

If you don't know what you are doing, It is hard to find a good AK without paying a lot of money (read: Arsenal). It is much easier to shop for an AR, and you can build or upgrade an AR using somewhat basic tools and just some minor gunsmithing.

I think what you selected is just fine. I'm not a Magpul fanboy, but I've never been disappointed in any of their products. Had you not already purchased, I was going to suggest checking out the Adams blems on sale at Buds for $599 shipped. I think you will be very happy with what you selected. Good luck and let us know how it turns out (pictures please!)

That's like saying it's hard to find a good AR with out paying a lot of money (read: Daniel Defense)


I'm assuming you've never owned an AK much less shot one?

its not the same.... Most AKs here in the US are frankenguns. You have to know what to look for when buying an AK built from a parts kit, unless you know who put it together. Many don't even shoot straight "out of the box".

I could say the same about ARs. Hell, unless you get a carry handle or one with a rear sight,  most ARs don't even come with a sight(s) . Unlike the AK. I've never bought an AR that has shot where I was aiming "out of the box".



With that being said, I'm no more an AK fan than and AR . But at least get your facts straight, or stop trolling.

Deleted

I am not talking about sights, I am talking about cant.  I like both, I am just saying it is harder to know if you are getting quality or not in an AK. I think you are trying to be difficult. Have you ever owned or shot an AK? And how am I trolling? I think you are....

Stay away from CTD. Go to the outdoor forums. I use to have the same burning question and my answer is neither of your choices. I went with a firearm the would take my glock mags that way if i had to quickly grab a mag for either my glock pistol or the rifle (a sub 2000 or an AR lower that takes glock mags)it would work in both. People will argue "not enough stopping power" or tell you carry a pile of weapons. I had to weight the fact if its survival I want something light, because i will be taking food water and survival gear, and will fit in my bug out bag. People think you will be battling hoards of people. You just want to avoid as many people as possible stay away from crowds. The more people you run into the better chance of something happening to you. I dont know what senerio you think might happen i just gave you a senerio of you having to get out of dodge.

Buy both. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses

Lol that's what I did.  Got two ar builds planned.  Still waiting on parts.  Picked up a century npap m70 at LGS for $550.   Put a cheap side scope mount and red dot and can plink cans at 40 yards; which was all the space I had at a family quarry.   I like it but pretty sure I'll prefer the AR overall.   Still really like the ak,  but fell it will have a slightly different role which is just fine :)


 

Ar>ak

If something breaks or gets worn out on the AR it's easy to fix and find the parts. Military and Leo use it and they are common.
AK would be a pain in the ass if you had to find a replacement part in a SHTF situation.

I came here to say this basically, with military and LE using AR's/M4's ammo, mags, parts, (and possibly select fire lowers!) Should be pretty easy to get ahold of in total chaos SHTF situations. And I love AK's but you can't deny this benefit to the AR, plus more accurate, lighter recoil etc.

wasr 10 - 500, off the shelf basic a2 ar15 - 600-800 depending on lower material
poly is cheaper

both have good surplus of ammo
both are great platforms
flip a coin

This thread really needs to be in GD. Too much non-technical crap here. That being said. I bought my first AK, in the 70's.
I have lost count of how many I have owned over the years. Given my age, I'd venture to say I might have a little more experience with them.
Personally I've had AK's that have shot right out of the box. Yes they were Chinese. I've never messed with the Wasr, or century crap.
Want a decent AK, then take a Mac-90, and de-ban it with the correct amount of 922R, US parts.
Want a decent AR, then build one with the parts you want.
Simple as that.

 

Sorry, AK quality is near garbage compared to what you could buy around 2000-2003...  Esp. for less than $600.   AK market has been through a continual cycle of what is newly released is considered subpar and then 5 years later the same item is considered premium by comparison to what is available in the present.  The only problem is that after 25 years of this, its just slightly better garbage from 5 years ago.

 

 
 

photos work / can see and looking good

PSA for a go!

It's a new user thing.  Don't worry about it....it'll go away in time.