User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/25/2014 10:52:13 PM EDT
[#1]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/25/2014 11:13:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Dont fix it if it aint broke originated from shit like this. Id grab original comp, try to re-cross thread it back to normal, and if that doesnt work, slap yourself
 even if it stays cross threaded by 1 thread it still may be ok if bore safely clears the bore of the comp. But without seeing it I cant make that call for you. You can probably find somewhere that will re-thread the barrel tho
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/25/2014 11:33:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Check with ADCO in our industry section. You will need to ship him the upper.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 12:55:17 AM EDT
[#4]
i dont think its anything with the muzzle because I shot it with the cross threaded flash hider and with no muzzle device just exposed threads and it shot in the exact same spot for both
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 1:07:39 AM EDT
[#5]
I vote that you tweaked your barrel at the upper receiver, slipping the index pin out of its slot...got too much torque at the flash hider end, causing the chamber end to turn.
The upper clamshell block is used for mounting/removing barrel from upper receiver. Do not secure the upper in the block and torque on the flash hider. Good idea to secure the barrel at the end around the front sight housing. You will probably need to remount the barrel into the upper receiver 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 1:35:04 AM EDT
[#6]
does this mean I need a new barrel or upper receiver or just take it all apart and re torque everything down to specs
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 9:39:52 AM EDT
[#7]
take everything apart, see if index pin/index pin slot are damaged. if it has slipped, take apart and put back together correctly, if it is damaged, then thats a different story. It doesn't take a gorilla to screw up the aluminum barrel/upper interface if things aren't toleranced well.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 10:39:43 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
take everything apart, see if index pin/index pin slot are damaged. if it has slipped, take apart and put back together correctly, if it is damaged, then thats a different story. It doesn't take a gorilla to screw up the aluminum barrel/upper interface if things aren't toleranced well. While it is apart, find someone to clean up/re-thread the muzzle to get rid of the cross thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 11:49:39 AM EDT
[#9]
I will take it apart as soon as I get home from work and see what she looks like. And my die to re thread the muzzle is supposed to come in today so well see what happens but thanks for the help guys
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 12:24:02 PM EDT
[#10]
You have to take off the barrel and check it because in torquing down the A2 flash hider with it cross threaded you have done something to where the barrel mounts to the upper receiver for it to be shooting 8" off. In the long run you'll end up with more serious problems. Also, take a look at the feed ramp line up in the upper receiver with the barrel. If that line up isn't darn near perfect you know that the barrel isn't in right anymore. Take it off, check it out, put the barrel nut back on and torque it to spec IF it all looks OK.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 12:48:21 PM EDT
[#11]
for future reference...
this is why you don't use a receiver vice to do barrel or flash hider work, you want to clamp THE BARREL. always use barrel vice jaws. use leather in the jaws to prevent marring the finish. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 12:58:00 PM EDT
[#12]
What profile is the barrel? I'm wundering if you bent the barrel. If you were yanking on the wrench handle applying all that pressure in one direction on an unsupported barrel...
I use barrel vice blocks. That is what is shown in the Colt armorers manual: that is how I do it! |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 1:25:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Barrel is a gov profile barrel. I learned my lesson and ordered all the correct equipment for my next build. But its not an adventure until something goes wrong right?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 3:39:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Ok took it all apart and everything looked fine except for the feed ramps but I could hardly tell they didn't line up its barely noticeable. Put it back together torqued it all to specs and took it to the range. its shooting in the same exact spot maybe just an inch lower this time but still way off. So I have no idea whats going on
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 4:52:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Any damage to the crown? It really sounds like it to me, especially now after you took it down and retorqued everything. If not then you may have canted your FSB.... what's the barrel length?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 5:11:11 PM EDT
[#16]
For future reference, if the crush washer is too flat to come straight off, you can unscrew it like a muzzle device. Don't force it off with a screwdriver (although you probably already know this last part
)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 5:26:58 PM EDT
[#17]
I cross threaded the stock screw in my Mossberg 500. I ended up having to make rethread the son of a bitch. You can't do that with barrel steel though. I'd say send it and get it re-crowned/threaded but if you are dealing with a 16" barrel, they are going to have to remove some length I would imagine.
F word. ETA: I would cut my losses now and go with a new barrel off EE. Just don't pay more than 200 for one. Otherwise you could just buy an upper from PSA and remove the FN. Sell the old one on EE with full disclosure. You would probably get about 100 bucks for it, it's fine for those who would want to turn it down to a shorter length. :P |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 6:45:20 PM EDT
[#18]
The reason I don't think its a crown issue is I'm still getting good consistent groups out of it...its just not going where I want it to go. If it was a crown issue I would be getting inconsistent groups right?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 7:21:09 PM EDT
[#19]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/654834_Red_Barn_Armory_Barrel.html
first link in this thread for a cheap barrel. never mind OoS |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 7:21:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The reason I don't think its a crown issue is I'm still getting good consistent groups out of it...its just not going where I want it to go. If it was a crown issue I would be getting inconsistent groups right? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 7:26:59 PM EDT
[#21]
I can adjust using my flip ups but I have to move them as far right as they will go and as far down as they will go to zero it and although it will work I know it is not right and I am not comfortable with that
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 7:27:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The reason I don't think its a crown issue is I'm still getting good consistent groups out of it...its just not going where I want it to go. If it was a crown issue I would be getting inconsistent groups right? that sounds more like you may have dicked up the pin. as retarded as this may sound, a barrel "whips" when firing (read up on barrel harmonics). if you twisted the barrel in the receiver (it wouldn't take much) it would change the "whip". think of a baseball pitcher who hurt his arm, he now throws sidearm his pitch will still be accurate it just isn't going to go to the same exact spot as his regular overhand pitch. edit to add - yes, damage to crown would open up groups. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 7:32:58 PM EDT
[#23]
so how do I fix the issue. new barrel?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 7:34:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can adjust using my flip ups but I have to move them as far right as they will go and as far down as they will go to zero it and although it will work I know it is not right and I am not comfortable with that ETA: Get yourself a 1/2x28 die and chase the threads on the barrel. Then install a new flash hider before going much further...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 7:35:55 PM EDT
[#25]
That is my thought. I would think the upper receiver would fail before the barrel but I just want to get some second opinions before I start buying parts
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 10:07:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Take the barrel back off and roll it back and forth on a flat surface to see if you can tell if it's bent. Like checking a pool cue for straightness. If you have a lathe you can chuck it up and check also, but I would assume that if you had a lathe I wouldn't have to tell you that.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 10:13:03 PM EDT
[#27]
I know you feel bad for screwing up but sometimes this is how we learn, as a techie, I learned years ago a simple fact, " if it works! don't fuck with it." Then learned how to use the right tools and procedures to fix my fuck ups. In the maintenance world, if you screw up and fix it before anyone finds out, did you screw up!
Reaction rods are excellent, but for muzzle devices, I'd suggest going with the padded barrel tools, that clamp around the barrel near the muzzle, then stick this unit in a big vice and do what you need to do, if you had screwed up the muzzle crown you could see that, and I also would ask, if you reset your sights once you put the original muzzle device back on. I see people do that oops quite often, a simple bore sighting through the barrel should show you where your problem is. I have found bent barrels before, mostly in the military. Some troops don't take very good care of their firearms and then blame someone else or the armorer for faults. And lot's of them can't shoot worth a damm anyway lol. Let us know what you find once you fix it, and add this to your skill set with the BRD. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/26/2014 10:22:46 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm curious as to what's wrong also. I'm wondering if the barrel did get just a wee bit bent.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/27/2014 7:27:23 AM EDT
[#29]
I don't feel bad for screwing up I'm just smacking myself because I have a very strong if it's working don't mess with it policy but oh well I'm getting some really good advice on here and my relationship with this rifle will rival the one I have with my girlfriend so it's all good. I have retreaded the muzzle and the new device fits snuggly however I'm leaving it off until I can find the exact issue. My next step is to order a new upper. If that solves the problem them great. If it doesn't then I just have a new upper for my next build. It makes it a really easy excuse I build another so it's. Win win
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/27/2014 12:40:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Take the barrel back off and roll it back and forth on a flat surface to see if you can tell if it's bent. Like checking a pool cue for straightness. If you have a lathe you can chuck it up and check also, but I would assume that if you had a lathe I wouldn't have to tell you that. So, just to get this straight, you think that he, by cross threading his flash hider, (which we will call idk 35 foot pounds of force to round up to the high side) bent his barrel??? Man, I dont even know what to say other than research the metallurgy of steel |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/27/2014 2:29:51 PM EDT
[#31]
Disassemble the barrel from the upper and redo it. This time make sure you get it torqued (with a accurate torque wrench!) above the minumum military spec or the min of whatever company made the barrel nut.
Sounds like something loose around that area though. A muzzle brake wouldn't change that. No offense, but are you sure you know what you're doing? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/27/2014 9:55:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While it is apart, find someone to clean up/re-thread the muzzle to get rid of the cross thread. John Thomas at Retro Arms Works, first rate very quick turnaround. Vince |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2014 12:02:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Cleaned the threads myself and I have taken it apart and put it back together twice. Using an accurate torque wrench I got it to line up at 40#. there is no rattle or noticeable movement in the gun other than just a little bit of play between the upper and the lower. ill keep y'all updated when the new upper comes in.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2014 12:06:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cleaned the threads myself and I have taken it apart and put it back together twice. Using an accurate torque wrench I got it to line up at 40#. there is no rattle or noticeable movement in the gun other than just a little bit of play between the upper and the lower. ill keep y'all updated when the new upper comes in. You put the muzzle device to 40 foot lbs or the barrel nut? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2014 3:27:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Barrel nut. I'm leaving the muzzle device off until I figure out what the problem is
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2014 3:37:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Barrel nut. I'm leaving the muzzle device off until I figure out what the problem is |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2014 10:55:08 AM EDT
[#37]
Muzzle device isn't the problem it shot in the exact same place with and without the muzzle device
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2014 6:58:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Adco
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2014 7:22:57 AM EDT
[#39]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2014 1:00:05 PM EDT
[#40]
John Thomas is asesome if it needs work. Use him.
However, does it zero? If you can atill zero the weapon, do it and move on. I didnt see if you actually tried to zero or not. POI change isnt uncommon after a tear down (or %#*# up) the question is, is it so far out the adjustments dont work? If it can be zerod, again move along.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2014 2:53:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
John Thomas is asesome if it needs work. Use him. However, does it zero? If you can atill zero the weapon, do it and move on. I didnt see if you actually tried to zero or not. POI change isnt uncommon after a tear down (or %#*# up) the question is, is it so far out the adjustments dont work? If it can be zerod, again move along.... Send it off to John Thomas at www.retroarmswork.com he will fix it right for you and if you want, he'll assemble it and test fire to ensure it's grouping well and zero'd properly.. ETA:Adco is a great company as well but John is simply amazing, his turn around times are insanely fast, and he will take the time to call you to tell you it's coming along. ADCO costs way too much and they take forever.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2014 7:36:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, just to get this straight, you think that he, by cross threading his flash hider, (which we will call idk 35 foot pounds of force to round up to the high side) bent his barrel??? Man, I dont even know what to say other than research the metallurgy of steel Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Take the barrel back off and roll it back and forth on a flat surface to see if you can tell if it's bent. Like checking a pool cue for straightness. If you have a lathe you can chuck it up and check also, but I would assume that if you had a lathe I wouldn't have to tell you that. So, just to get this straight, you think that he, by cross threading his flash hider, (which we will call idk 35 foot pounds of force to round up to the high side) bent his barrel??? Man, I dont even know what to say other than research the metallurgy of steel Changing a muzzle device useing a receiver block. 16 or 20 inches of barrel sticking out un supported. I asked him the profile, he said .gov, ie; light under the handguards. IMO, if he had used a T-handle wrench to change it, no problem. Nobody uses a T-handle, so imagine yanking on that thin .gov barrel all in one direction, on what, a 20" handled wrench? I think the barrel could bend. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2014 7:38:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
John Thomas is asesome if it needs work. Use him. However, does it zero? If you can atill zero the weapon, do it and move on. I didnt see if you actually tried to zero or not. POI change isnt uncommon after a tear down (or %#*# up) the question is, is it so far out the adjustments dont work? If it can be zerod, again move along.... This. Did the OP not already learn: IF IT AIN"T BROKE DON'T FIX IT! |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2014 7:43:47 PM EDT
[#44]
I'm curious to learn what the final outcome of this turned out to be. I hope the OP posts an update to let us all know.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2014 11:09:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Update: vI can zero the rifle but I have to adjust the front and rear sights to their extremes which I am not ok with. It is to the point that when I shoulder the rifle I need to remove my cheek from the stock to get a clear sight picture (sure optics would work) but the poi is out of my comfort zone. So I ordered a new upper from Anderson and just my luck the upper is botched and my bcg hangs up about halfway in and my charging handle won't fit either. So I'm calling them on my lunch break to see what they can do for me.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2014 11:13:05 AM EDT
[#46]
Stripped upper*. I understand that I can ship it off to have it fixed but the whole reason I am doing this build is to further educate myself on the process, gain experience, learn from my mistakes, and have fun with it. I am really appreciative of all the help though. This forum is a lifesaver
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2014 11:39:41 AM EDT
[#47]
I'm curious what sights you're using, and where are they mounted? (Flip up gas block, A2, or rail mount?)
Could you have shifted the alignment of your sights/handguard/rail setup? Tell us more specs about the upper in question... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2014 2:29:16 PM EDT
[#48]
The sights I'm using are Troy flip ups mounted on my free float handguard rail. Don't think it is the sights, we popped my buddy's eotech on it that was zeroed for his rifle(I understand all rifles are different and the zero is different) but it was shooting in the same place as the flip ups so I don't think that's the problem. Also eliminating my original thought of the handguard being cross threaded/bent etc. the upper is the palmetto state standard upper
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2014 2:44:45 PM EDT
[#49]
Are you seeing any uneven wear on the bolt, face of the carrier, or face of the barrel extension? Something that might indicate the receiver bent?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2014 2:58:14 PM EDT
[#50]
No signs or marks on anything. But after I noticed the change I've only put about 30 rounds through it
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
