What is the general consensus about polymer lowers? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What is the general consensus about polymer lowers? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 3/18/2014 5:46:38 PM EDT

[#1]

I haven't abused one...yet.

These seem nicely made and well thought out.

http://www.tnarmsco.com/

Posted: 3/18/2014 5:58:14 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:

Per chance do you work for the new Cav Arms? Most are aware that Cav Arms receivers are the usual exception. However, when speaking of polymer receivers most are referring to the Plum Crazy, New Frontier, Ati, etc. Drive on.

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I worked for Cavalry Arms Corp, the original manufacturers of the CAV–15, from 2001 to 2010 when it closed down.

I worked for Cavalry Manufactuing LLC (only makes AR15 furniture and non regulated parts) until August of 2012.

The CAV-15 MKII was sold to GWACS Armory at the end of 2011. They're one of my Sponsors and I demo their product at events and to dealers because of my familiarity with it and above average shooting skills.

The CAV-15 MKII was out of production for almost 2 years between Cav Arms corp closing and GWACS becoming operational. In that time, other polymer brands did considerable damage to the general concept. I've encountered dealers who won't even consider CAV-15 MKIIs because they had such terrible experiences with other brands. I still run into a lot of people that think CAV-15s are completely discontinued or who's only experience with polymer lowers is other brands. That's why I feel a clear distinction must be made.

I believe in the product and I've been there for every step of it's development. I don't care if people buy them or not, but I would like to see them held in a different regard by the shooting community.

Posted: 3/18/2014 6:03:37 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

I worked for Cavalry Arms Corp, the original manufacturers of the CAV–15, from 2001 to 2010 when it closed down.

I worked for Cavalry Manufactuing LLC (only makes AR15 furniture and non regulated parts) until August of 2012.

The CAV-15 MKII was sold to GWACS Armory at the end of 2011. They're one of my Sponsors and I demo their product at events and to dealers because of my familiarity with it and above average shooting skills.

The CAV-15 MKII was out of production for almost 2 years between Cav Arms corp closing and GWACS becoming operational. In that time, other polymer brands did considerable damage to the general concept. I've encountered dealers who won't even consider CAV-15 MKIIs because they had such terrible experiences with other brands. I still run into a lot of people that think CAV-15s are completely discontinued or who's only experience with polymer lowers is other brands. That's why I feel a clear distinction must be made.

I believe in the product and I've been there for every step of it's development. I don't care if people buy them or not, but I would like to see them held in a different regard by the shooting community.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Per chance do you work for the new Cav Arms? Most are aware that Cav Arms receivers are the usual exception. However, when speaking of polymer receivers most are referring to the Plum Crazy, New Frontier, Ati, etc. Drive on.

I worked for Cavalry Arms Corp, the original manufacturers of the CAV–15, from 2001 to 2010 when it closed down.

I worked for Cavalry Manufactuing LLC (only makes AR15 furniture and non regulated parts) until August of 2012.

The CAV-15 MKII was sold to GWACS Armory at the end of 2011. They're one of my Sponsors and I demo their product at events and to dealers because of my familiarity with it and above average shooting skills.

The CAV-15 MKII was out of production for almost 2 years between Cav Arms corp closing and GWACS becoming operational. In that time, other polymer brands did considerable damage to the general concept. I've encountered dealers who won't even consider CAV-15 MKIIs because they had such terrible experiences with other brands. I still run into a lot of people that think CAV-15s are completely discontinued or who's only experience with polymer lowers is other brands. That's why I feel a clear distinction must be made.

I believe in the product and I've been there for every step of it's development. I don't care if people buy them or not, but I would like to see them held in a different regard by the shooting community.

It's about the only poly lower I would consider if I were going for a super-light build. I have seen a few CAV15 failures over the years, mostly along the parting line in the mag well, and usually due to the owner letting the upper swing on the pivot pin, but nowhere near the fallout of many of the other poly offerings.

Posted: 3/18/2014 6:03:52 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:

I worked for Cavalry Arms Corp, the original manufacturers of the CAV–15, from 2001 to 2010 when it closed down.

I worked for Cavalry Manufactuing LLC (only makes AR15 furniture and non regulated parts) until August of 2012.

The CAV-15 MKII was sold to GWACS Armory at the end of 2011. They're one of my Sponsors and I demo their product at events and to dealers because of my familiarity with it and above average shooting skills.

The CAV-15 MKII was out of production for almost 2 years between Cav Arms corp closing and GWACS becoming operational. In that time, other polymer brands did considerable damage to the general concept. I've encountered dealers who won't even consider CAV-15 MKIIs because they had such terrible experiences with other brands. I still run into a lot of people that think CAV-15s are completely discontinued or who's only experience with polymer lowers is other brands. That's why I feel a clear distinction must be made.

I believe in the product and I've been there for every step of it's development. I don't care if people buy them or not, but I would like to see them held in a different regard by the shooting community.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Per chance do you work for the new Cav Arms? Most are aware that Cav Arms receivers are the usual exception. However, when speaking of polymer receivers most are referring to the Plum Crazy, New Frontier, Ati, etc. Drive on.

I worked for Cavalry Arms Corp, the original manufacturers of the CAV–15, from 2001 to 2010 when it closed down.

I worked for Cavalry Manufactuing LLC (only makes AR15 furniture and non regulated parts) until August of 2012.

The CAV-15 MKII was sold to GWACS Armory at the end of 2011. They're one of my Sponsors and I demo their product at events and to dealers because of my familiarity with it and above average shooting skills.

The CAV-15 MKII was out of production for almost 2 years between Cav Arms corp closing and GWACS becoming operational. In that time, other polymer brands did considerable damage to the general concept. I've encountered dealers who won't even consider CAV-15 MKIIs because they had such terrible experiences with other brands. I still run into a lot of people that think CAV-15s are completely discontinued or who's only experience with polymer lowers is other brands. That's why I feel a clear distinction must be made.

I believe in the product and I've been there for every step of it's development. I don't care if people buy them or not, but I would like to see them held in a different regard by the shooting community.

I hear you. Thanks for the clarification.

Posted: 3/18/2014 6:17:09 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:

It's about the only poly lower I would consider if I were going for a super-light build. I have seen a few CAV15 failures over the years, mostly along the parting line in the mag well, and usually due to the owner letting the upper swing on the pivot pin, but nowhere near the fallout of many of the other poly offerings.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Per chance do you work for the new Cav Arms? Most are aware that Cav Arms receivers are the usual exception. However, when speaking of polymer receivers most are referring to the Plum Crazy, New Frontier, Ati, etc. Drive on.

I worked for Cavalry Arms Corp, the original manufacturers of the CAV–15, from 2001 to 2010 when it closed down.

I worked for Cavalry Manufactuing LLC (only makes AR15 furniture and non regulated parts) until August of 2012.

The CAV-15 MKII was sold to GWACS Armory at the end of 2011. They're one of my Sponsors and I demo their product at events and to dealers because of my familiarity with it and above average shooting skills.

The CAV-15 MKII was out of production for almost 2 years between Cav Arms corp closing and GWACS becoming operational. In that time, other polymer brands did considerable damage to the general concept. I've encountered dealers who won't even consider CAV-15 MKIIs because they had such terrible experiences with other brands. I still run into a lot of people that think CAV-15s are completely discontinued or who's only experience with polymer lowers is other brands. That's why I feel a clear distinction must be made.

I believe in the product and I've been there for every step of it's development. I don't care if people buy them or not, but I would like to see them held in a different regard by the shooting community.

It's about the only poly lower I would consider if I were going for a super-light build. I have seen a few CAV15 failures over the years, mostly along the parting line in the mag well, and usually due to the owner letting the upper swing on the pivot pin, but nowhere near the fallout of many of the other poly offerings.

Honestly GWACS has better quality control than we did at Cav Arms. This is largely due to GWACS being set up to run smaller batches with more attention to detail. The infrastructure at Cav Arms forced us to run a years worth all at once in a couple weeks time. GWACS has really refined the manufacturing process from what it was.

Posted: 3/18/2014 10:42:17 PM EDT

[#6]

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I think I have made a decision, I'm gonna go with this http://www.80percentarms.com/products/80-lower-receiver-type-iii-hard-anodized-billet-ar-15

I already have the drill press, and a cross slide vise, the only problem I foresee is my drill press lowest rpm is 530...that may be to fast for some of the steps with bigger bits.

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I ran my 1/2" drill at about 630 rpm. The 370 setting was too slow for it. You should be perfectly fine. I'd find a good drill/tap lube. My favorite is Rapid Tap by Relton. Comes in a yellow can or squeeze bottle and stays on the tool so you don't have to re lube as often as using WD40 or something like it.

Posted: 3/21/2014 8:23:15 PM EDT

[#7]

absolutely no reason for me to have a synthetic lower but if I felt the need I would get a cav arms lower.

its the only one that was designed as a synthetic lower not a synthetic lower that just copies an alum lower,IMHO

Posted: 3/22/2014 9:35:10 AM EDT

[#8]

Are the Cav Arms lowers RDIAS compatible?

Posted: 3/22/2014 9:49:57 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
absolutely no reason for me to have a synthetic lower but if I felt the need I would get a cav arms lower.
its the only one that was designed as a synthetic lower not a synthetic lower that just copies an alum lower,IMHO

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+1

If engineered correctly from the ground up, incorporating polymer into an AR lower is doable.

And I agree, cav arms is probably the only one I have seen that I would trust. I just can't get past the looks.

Posted: 3/22/2014 11:43:12 AM EDT

[#10]

Quick question, not pertaining to any side of the fence, but does a polymer lower weigh less then a aluminum?

I went to a gun show the other day, and a women was peddling these polymer frontier lowers wearing a recycle shirt . I picked one up and she came up to me and ased "have you seen those youtube videos demonstrating how strong the magwel is compared to a aluminum lower?", "Yes, I have, those videos are crap, have you seen real world examples of these pieces of shit exploding at the take down pins and buffer tube sections?". She took her crap and walked away like a snob knowing deep down she was peddling crap and trying to make a buck off some sap. She even tried to give it some military endorsement with some empty claims saying an army battalion bought a handful of them.

But really, are they lighter? If not, then why would a polymer lower ever be considered?

Posted: 3/22/2014 11:45:48 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
Quick question, not pertaining to any side of the fence, but does a polymer lower weigh less then a aluminum?

I went to a gun show the other day, and women was peddling these lowers. I picked one up and she came up to me and said "have you seen those youtube videos demonstrating how strong the magwel is compared to a aluminum lower?", "Yes, I have, those videos are crap, have you seen real world explains of these pieces of shit exploding at the take down pins and buffer tube sections?". She took her crap and walked away.

But really, are they lighter? If not, then why would a polymer lower ever be considered?

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The super-light ones are the weak non-reinforced ones.
The ones that are reinforced weigh nearly as much as aluminum.

Poly lowers are cheap, and in 80% form, they are easier to machine, but other than that, there is no real advantage.

Posted: 3/22/2014 1:31:41 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:

Are the Cav Arms lowers RDIAS compatible?

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I was wondering the same thing.

I'm guessing not since they likely left as much material as possible for strength.

Posted: 3/22/2014 2:14:48 PM EDT

[#13]

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I was wondering the same thing.

I'm guessing not since they likely left as much material as possible for strength.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Are the Cav Arms lowers RDIAS compatible?

I was wondering the same thing.

I'm guessing not since they likely left as much material as possible for strength.

They used to be, but I haven't bought one in ten years, so they might have changed the internal design since.

Through the 2nd or 3rd gen models that I bought, they just required a little trimming with an xacto knife, or a bit of small filing to let the DIAS body fit, and would fit a lightning link as well. I even turned one into a post-sample registered receiver MG that still runs fine to this day.

Posted: 3/22/2014 3:30:06 PM EDT

[#14]

I built a EP 80% lower and it felt like crap and the pins would slide in and out on some holes and others would be to tight. Once I put in the grip screw it cracked long the back. Not even going to return it just hang it on a wall as a reminder of why not to buy another one

Posted: 3/22/2014 5:08:41 PM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:
I built a EP 80% lower and it felt like crap and the pins would slide in and out on some holes and others would be to tight. Once I put in the grip screw it cracked long the back. Not even going to return it just hang it on a wall as a reminder of why not to buy another one

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BATFE may come visit & pick it up for you.

Apparently someone forgot to send a sample into Tech Branch before they started selling 'em.

Posted: 3/22/2014 5:22:09 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

They used to be, but I haven't bought one in ten years, so they might have changed the internal design since.

Through the 2nd or 3rd gen models that I bought, they just required a little trimming with an xacto knife, or a bit of small filing to let the DIAS body fit, and would fit a lightning link as well. I even turned one into a post-sample registered receiver MG that still runs fine to this day.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Are the Cav Arms lowers RDIAS compatible?

I was wondering the same thing.

I'm guessing not since they likely left as much material as possible for strength.

They used to be, but I haven't bought one in ten years, so they might have changed the internal design since.

Through the 2nd or 3rd gen models that I bought, they just required a little trimming with an xacto knife, or a bit of small filing to let the DIAS body fit, and would fit a lightning link as well. I even turned one into a post-sample registered receiver MG that still runs fine to this day.

Thanks Circuits.
I checked some video and images and the 3rd gen look to be low shelf.
They are local to me so I will be picking one up this week if I can get by there.

Posted: 3/22/2014 7:59:19 PM EDT

[#17]

I would never get a poly lower but someone wanting to experiment a little might. The only other reason I see a need for this is to piss off anti-gun folk because why not? Jokes aside they're probably only ever suited for .22lr

Posted: 3/22/2014 8:17:14 PM EDT

[#18]

On a lark, I've put over 5000 rounds through a New Frontier polymer lower. About 1500 5.56 and 5.45, and the rest 22lr, with no issues.

I've also got over 10000 rounds full auto 9mm through the Cavalry Arms lower I converted to a post-sample machinegun.

Not saying polymer lowers are the equal of any aluminum lower, but they certainly haven't given me the problems people have seen with the plum crazy lowers... Cavarms and New Frontier are OK in my book. I have no personal experience with plum crazy or ATI or the slew of other finished and 80% polymer lowers.

Posted: 3/23/2014 3:05:14 AM EDT

[#19]

so as a rep of a manufacturer, I can come into a tech forum on AR-15.com and crap on peoples experiences and opinions, with no recourse, if I have 10K posts. If I tried this with 100 posts, I'd get banned. Beautiful.

Posted: 3/23/2014 7:08:43 AM EDT

[#20]

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so as a rep of a manufacturer, I can come into a tech forum on AR-15.com and crap on peoples experiences and opinions, with no recourse, if I have 10K posts. If I tried this with 100 posts, I'd get banned. Beautiful.

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He's not a rep, and he was contributing actual information on the topic at hand.

Unlike what you're doing.

Posted: 3/23/2014 7:22:31 AM EDT

[#21]

No one likes a shill. Perhaps SinistralRifleman you could acknowledge your relationship with the manufacturer before making your claims. You may have had great experience with poly lowers but please don't try to tell me they are BETTER than aluminum. I think the Daniel Defense torture test was a little bit tougher than your poly stock could have handled. Dishonesty does not become you.

and to stay more on topic...I would consider poly on a .22 such as MP 15-22.

Posted: 3/23/2014 7:26:08 AM EDT

[#22]

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No one likes a shill. Perhaps SinistralRifleman you could acknowledge your relationship with the manufacturer before making your claims. You may have had great experience with poly lowers but please don't try to tell me they are BETTER than aluminum. I think the Daniel Defense torture test was a little bit tougher than your poly stock could have handled. Dishonesty does not become you.

and to stay more on topic...I would consider poly on a .22 such as MP 15-22.

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Most folks know who he worked for. His comments couldn't have been a problem because AFAIK, no one hit the report button.

Now we're done discussing that.

Posted: 3/23/2014 8:09:41 AM EDT

[#23]

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Are the Cav Arms lowers RDIAS compatible?

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For the 99.999% of us who will never run full auto, it doesn't matter.

Posted: 3/23/2014 8:18:08 AM EDT

[#24]

My video I posted in my first reply says "I'm with GWACS Armory" (they're one of my sponsors) my match sponsors are listed on my blog that I also linked to. I don't know how I can be anymore transparent than that.

Posted: 3/23/2014 9:59:41 AM EDT

[#25]

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BATFE may come visit & pick it up for you.

Apparently someone forgot to send a sample into Tech Branch before they started selling 'em.

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Quoted:
I built a EP 80% lower and it felt like crap and the pins would slide in and out on some holes and others would be to tight. Once I put in the grip screw it cracked long the back. Not even going to return it just hang it on a wall as a reminder of why not to buy another one

BATFE may come visit & pick it up for you.

Apparently someone forgot to send a sample into Tech Branch before they started selling 'em.

It was actually a gift so they might show up at their house

what are they going to do about it though? just take them or are they going to start slapping people with felony gun charges?

Posted: 3/23/2014 10:07:20 AM EDT

[#26]

Would never buy one

Posted: 3/23/2014 10:19:42 AM EDT

[#27]

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It was actually a gift so they might show up at their house

what are they going to do about it though? just take them or are they going to start slapping people with felony gun charges?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I built a EP 80% lower and it felt like crap and the pins would slide in and out on some holes and others would be to tight. Once I put in the grip screw it cracked long the back. Not even going to return it just hang it on a wall as a reminder of why not to buy another one

BATFE may come visit & pick it up for you.

Apparently someone forgot to send a sample into Tech Branch before they started selling 'em.

It was actually a gift so they might show up at their house

what are they going to do about it though? just take them or are they going to start slapping people with felony gun charges?

It wouldn't do them any good to come after non-felon customers in free states. We bought it in good faith, EP Armory did not take advantage of the regulatory process & got us all screwed. BATFE might ask for it back, they might send you a 4473 to sign (doubtful), or EP Armory might offer you a full refund (very doubtful). If you bought one behind enemy lines, then your state might try to bring charges for an unregistered assault weapon, but again, you bought it in good faith as a paperweight. But your state might try a search warrant for it, & hope to find other unregistered guns or guns in an unlawful configuration. Known felons who received these are screwed.

Posted: 3/23/2014 2:46:50 PM EDT

[#28]

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It wouldn't do them any good to come after non-felon customers in free states. We bought it in good faith, EP Armory did not take advantage of the regulatory process & got us all screwed. BATFE might ask for it back, they might send you a 4473 to sign (doubtful), or EP Armory might offer you a full refund (very doubtful). If you bought one behind enemy lines, then your state might try to bring charges for an unregistered assault weapon, but again, you bought it in good faith as a paperweight. But your state might try a search warrant for it, & hope to find other unregistered guns or guns in an unlawful configuration. Known felons who received these are screwed.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I built a EP 80% lower and it felt like crap and the pins would slide in and out on some holes and others would be to tight. Once I put in the grip screw it cracked long the back. Not even going to return it just hang it on a wall as a reminder of why not to buy another one

BATFE may come visit & pick it up for you.

Apparently someone forgot to send a sample into Tech Branch before they started selling 'em.

It was actually a gift so they might show up at their house

what are they going to do about it though? just take them or are they going to start slapping people with felony gun charges?

It wouldn't do them any good to come after non-felon customers in free states. We bought it in good faith, EP Armory did not take advantage of the regulatory process & got us all screwed. BATFE might ask for it back, they might send you a 4473 to sign (doubtful), or EP Armory might offer you a full refund (very doubtful). If you bought one behind enemy lines, then your state might try to bring charges for an unregistered assault weapon, but again, you bought it in good faith as a paperweight. But your state might try a search warrant for it, & hope to find other unregistered guns or guns in an unlawful configuration. Known felons who received these are screwed.

Well I dont think ND would do much about it, its more the feds that worry me.

Posted: 3/23/2014 4:10:17 PM EDT

[#29]

Bought one for $35, sold it for $55. I'll never own one with the intent to build it.

Posted: 3/23/2014 5:17:43 PM EDT

[#30]

Please don't ask for free stuff or pimp your website here - Eric802

Posted: 3/23/2014 7:58:01 PM EDT

[#31]

The 2 Gun Action Challenge match is a club level rifle/pistol match held at the Pima Pistol Club every 3rd Saturday of the month. It is not for profit and every $15 match fee goes directly to supporting the club. Info on the match can be found in the Arizona home town forum here.

If anyone wants to run any type of firearms test (like I did with the CAV-15 in the video in this thread) there they are welcome to do so if they clear it with the match director. Employees, reps, and sponsored shooters from a wide variety of companies attend on a regular basis. What works and what doesn't is rapidly sorted out and people don't show up with something that doesn't work more than once.

Posted: 3/23/2014 9:26:53 PM EDT

[#32]

Never.

Ever.

Never.

Posted: 3/24/2014 5:11:55 AM EDT

[#33]

No one was "pimping" anything nor we were "asking for free stuff", just providing a unique opportunity.

I'll refrain from participating in this forum further, thank you for the sanity check.

Posted: 3/24/2014 6:24:48 AM EDT

[#34]

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No one was "pimping" anything nor we were "asking for free stuff", just providing a unique opportunity.

I'll refrain from participating in this forum further, thank you for the sanity check.

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When your post says "If anyone wants to send us a lower to test...", that's asking for stuff.

Sorry, but new account with that in a post, along with a link to your website, tends to indicate certain things. If I'm wrong, please stick around.

Posted: 3/24/2014 6:34:13 AM EDT

[#35]

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When your post says "If anyone wants to send us a lower to test...", that's asking for stuff.

Sorry, but new account with that in a post, along with a link to your website, tends to indicate certain things. If I'm wrong, please stick around.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
No one was "pimping" anything nor we were "asking for free stuff", just providing a unique opportunity.

I'll refrain from participating in this forum further, thank you for the sanity check.

When your post says "If anyone wants to send us a lower to test...", that's asking for stuff.

Sorry, but new account with that in a post, along with a link to your website, tends to indicate certain things. If I'm wrong, please stick around.

You are wrong, but no thanks.

I'm unsure how anyone could perceive that we benefit from this, destroying an item at a match is no personal gain to us as match directors...it's just an interesting test environment.

I have more useful ways to waste my time than to deal with this nonsense, so sticking around after this welcome really isn't on my agenda.