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7/29/2014 4:02:36 PM
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diesel_fireman2001
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Posted: 1/29/2014 7:59:38 PM
[Last Edit: 1/29/2014 10:25:27 PM by diesel_fireman2001]
Mid December I bought one of their 80% polymer lowers they had on sale. I requested a multi color lower, which occurs when they change colors in their plastic injection machines. They do sell Blem lowers but that is NOT what I ordered. I wanted to make a nice lightweight 22lr AR. When I received the lower there were several issues. The pivot pin locations were out of spec, the buffer tube area was bent inward, and the bolt catch slot was too wide. I contacted EPArmory and was told to send it back and a warranty replacement would be sent. A month later I got the replacement and it was even worse than the first. For reference I'm a Machinist that designs and build molds for Plastic Injection and Diescast Machines. I gave EPArmory the benefit of the doubt that they would want to fix the issues they were having with their mold and operation of their plastic machines, and told them some things that they could do to fix some of the issues. They blew me off and said they have no issues.

Here are the photos showing all of the issues with these lowers.


Pivot Pin locations out of spec:


The front pivot pins are lined up with gage pins to a Quinten Defense Lower (that is milspec). Shows that the distance between the pivot pins on the EP lower is too far apart. EP lower measures 6.3975 center to center, Mil spec is 6.375 +-.002.


Pivot pin hole too far up (to the top of the lower). From the top of the lower to the center of the rear pivot pin hole measures .195, front measures .217. Mil-Spec is .25. With the pivot pins too high, it leaves a substantial gap between the upper and lower:


In the photo below you can see the gap between the bottom of the straight edge and the top of the EP lower.

(NOTE: The QD lower in the above photo has Blem writen on it because I engraved a logo too deep, NOT because anything is out of spec)

The bolt Release Pocket too wide:


You can see the comparison to a mil-spec pocket. This gives the bolt catch too much play forward and back and doesn't reliably lift when a mag is empty.


Buffer Tube area warped / bent:



The buffer tube are is bent toward the front of the lower due to improper cooling of the mold and lower as it is ejected from the mold. This also means the threads are warped and a buffer tube does not thread into the lower.

This isn't an isolated incident either. Seems many people on other forums that have a large community of 80% builders also have these issues (calguns for example). I would suggest anyone who is in the market for an 80% polymer lower avoid EPArmory like the plague. They have some major issues with their mold, operational issues with their plastic injection machine and no quality control. There are other Polymer 80% lowers out there to choose from that don't have these kind of issues.
baih777
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Posted: 1/29/2014 9:27:13 PM
This was discussed on Calguns. Same as EPlowers.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=840960

EPArmory is no longer a vendor on Calguns. These two companies are selling the same lower.
zerodameaon
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Posted: 1/30/2014 12:17:37 AM
Thanks for the heads up, I have a friend who was really considering buying a bunch of these. Also filing a charge back against the vendor charges on CG is pretty shady.
3Gun22LR223Rem300Blk
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Posted: 1/30/2014 9:07:20 AM
The EP80 is not going to be used by me. I bought two to try. They are not close to spec. Of course the only way to really know is to get it in your own grubby little paws. On the other hand the Polymer80 is a pretty nice piece. I have just ordered two James Madison 80% lowers to see if they measure up to the Polymer80 or as some think surpass it.
inbox485
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Posted: 1/30/2014 1:07:30 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 3Gun22LR223Rem300Blk:
The EP80 is not going to be used by me. I bought two to try. They are not close to spec. Of course the only way to really know is to get it in your own grubby little paws. On the other hand the Polymer80 is a pretty nice piece. I have just ordered two James Madison 80% lowers to see if they measure up to the Polymer80 or as some think surpass it.


I've done all three. JMT vs P80 is a toss up. If they collaborated they could probably improve each other, but both are good. JMT has an oversized magwell which can be good for some things, and I didn't have any BHO issues, but you might want to shim the front just for a tighter mag fit. That lower is perfect for the surefire mags (they swell a bit when left loaded and don't always drop free) and for the 5.45 modded pmags (again swelling issues) as both will drop free even when they are bulged at the top. The JMT jig isn't as good as the P80 (although there are aspects of the JMT I like better). I had some issues with the sides shifting vertically, and I had to fill and re-drill one side of the hammer pin hole. The P80 has more of a solid jig feel since you screw it together. The P80 looks and feels more like standard lower. I will say that I had some cracks in the P80 and when I contacted the company, the owner got back to me that day, explained there were a small percentage in the batch that got molded too hot, and had a replacement in the mail that same day, so unlike my nightmares with EPL and their disreputable lying wretch of an owner, P80's warranty service is second to none if you have an issue. I haven't heard anybody else mention cracking a P80, so I'm guessing it was in fact a small percentage issue. Personally I like both, and will probably order one more JMT so I have two of each, but I would pick one over the other depending on the application.
squashpup
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Posted: 1/30/2014 6:17:21 PM
Awesome! Got one of these on the way...should be here this week.

I've heard mixed reviews of the EP (all after I jumped on one for a ridiculously low price before doing any research). Some people say they build just fine, others can't even get a working rifle assembled from them.

Hope I have one of the good ones. Seems like it'd be relatively simple to just make sure that everything lines up correctly before deciding to sell these things. Is EP a relatively new company? If so, they may not be around long...

I'll post pics when I get mine. Hope I have better luck than you did.
Aare
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Posted: 1/30/2014 6:59:43 PM
i plan to use one as a dedicated .22lr as well. for $50, i'll give it a shot and hope i get a good one. i sent them an email, they are releasing an AR10 lower later this year. i plan on using an aluminum 80% for that though.
diesel_fireman2001
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Posted: 2/1/2014 3:10:08 PM
Good luck, If you get a good one, might consider getting a lotery ticket too. Might just be a lucky day.
wjoutlaw
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Posted: 2/1/2014 5:08:14 PM
I got two of them last year and the first one I milled out, NOTHING lined up. The hammer, trigger, and safety pin holes did not line up on the first one. The second one, the trigger group pocket was too shallow and even though I had the depth stop locked in to keep from going too deep, I milled straight through the bottom. The first one, the trigger group pocket was fine.

Not one lower could be used, I ended up tossing them and consider it a lesson learned
I saw some girl texting and driving the other day and it really pissed me off, so I rolled down my window and threw my beer at her!

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rdhood
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Posted: 2/2/2014 9:00:50 AM
I don't get it... with lowers from multiple vendors now going for about $50, why go polymer?
3Gun22LR223Rem300Blk
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Posted: 2/2/2014 10:45:47 AM
[Last Edit: 2/2/2014 10:48:51 AM by 3Gun22LR223Rem300Blk]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By rdhood:
I don't get it... with lowers from multiple vendors now going for about $50, why go polymer?


Ease of making a no paperwork lower.

And for folks like me satisfaction for a curious mind. I was hoping the EP80 tan colored lower would be a good fit for my FDE builds. Now I may save up for two cerakoted Polymer 80 lowers. I have some Durakote kits and just have to wait for warm weather to paint.

If you use them for a dedicated 22LR build you don't need the bolt catch. A file fixes the out of line extension tube part, alignment of that is not needed for a 22LR since you don't need a buffer or spring, and the lug holes can be fudged to fit as well.

A polymer lower with the minimum hardware makes a nice lightweight 22LR.
mike6
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Posted: 2/2/2014 11:44:17 PM
Disappointed to read about the woes of the EP lower. I just bought one at a show yesterday for $50. out the door. I had been wanting to try a 80% lower for the challenge and thought for a novice the polymer would be easier to work with than a metal lower. Watched a couple utube clips on builds on these lowers, results were mixed. One lots of alignment issues, the other no problems. Hope I got one of the good ones.
ToledoXJ
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Posted: 2/5/2014 10:08:24 AM
Mine was junk. Selector holes were misaligned by 1/16"
KYGun
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Posted: 2/10/2014 1:31:28 PM
There are Cerro forged 80% aluminum lowers out there that can be easily milled out and completed with a jig. Buy one of those for 65.00 off gunbroker.
3Gun22LR223Rem300Blk
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Posted: 2/10/2014 1:52:22 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By KYGun:
There are Cerro forged 80% aluminum lowers out there that can be easily milled out and completed with a jig. Buy one of those for 65.00 off gunbroker.


Easily is very relative. Having done both with minimum tools I am going to give the following rating of "easy"

Aluminum 80% lower is easy to drill, and difficult to mill. So rating is 1

Polymer 80 is easy to drill and easy to mill, however, if you follow their instructions you will do yourself a disservice by drilling as they suggest. Makes the milling more difficult. So rating for first one is 4 for second and more 6

EP 80 (not drilled) and because the lug pocket is complete, along with softer plastic is the easiest so rating is 10.

I could complete polymer lowers by milling with a very simplistic drill press. The aluminum I had to use a dremel to complete. Second aluminum was easier since I abandoned the drill plate and made my own layout of holes that removed a lot more metal, knowing I would have to use the dremel.

I am a bit of a master with the dremel having built a piece to replace a broken housing for some Spademan ski bindings from scratch using a bar of aluminum.

Also used a dremel to reshape a 303 British Enfield action and barrel.

So the great appeal of the polymer 80 % lowers is the ease of transformation from a paperweight to a fully functioning lower receiver.

Cancelled the order for the James Madison based on the comments about the loose mag. Mags are already loose in a normal receiver. I guess it is so they can be dumped easily. I don't mind pulling out a mag.
KYGun
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Posted: 2/11/2014 7:28:17 PM
My cerro 80s were drilled out using various sizes of bits with a drill plate pattern jig. Turned out good for me. I love doing that stuff!
4Kilo12
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Posted: 2/12/2014 10:22:32 PM
Just adding my .02c

Even with a mill these are less than worthless stick with Al ...

buffer threads = fucked
pivot and takedown = fucked


I got one to function but it was more work than a 0% Al
diesel_fireman2001
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Posted: 2/19/2014 1:34:47 AM
[Last Edit: 2/19/2014 1:35:18 AM by diesel_fireman2001]
Here is another thread from Calguns showing many people ov there have the same issues.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=840960

Why anyone would want to still buy their product is beyond me.
randybill
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Posted: 3/16/2014 2:13:49 PM
[Last Edit: 3/16/2014 4:13:37 PM by randybill]
i bought two epl lowers. both from ares armor at different times. i hand drilled and dremel'd out the first one. hammer and trigger pin holes off. i put that off on me and maybe the drill bit walking since i used a hand drill and was too lazy to walk 20 feet to my drill press. results of first one: non functional.

second epl i order i use my drill press, take my time, pre drill hammer/trigger holes. same results as above. contacted ares armor about this and explained what i have in the post and ares refunded everything. ares is now not even selling this sub-par product.

ETA: more better spelling

ETA2: another use for my epl lowers that are useless. install grip and pistol buffer tube for a legal place holder for a shorter than 16" barreled upper. even if the lower isn't functioning but never assembled as a rifle lower i should be good? that's what i've gathered. thoughts?
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