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layne555
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Posted: 2/13/2013 1:09:46 PM EST
I was wondering how I could get more info on 3d printing of 30 round mags. I know Printing receivers doesnt work. However more and more I hear about printing of the mags. anyone have any info on this... Maybe material composition, or if anyone has had any luck.
CovG27
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Posted: 2/13/2013 1:18:34 PM EST
Distributed Defense

and

Same folks as first link.
DEFCAD

Cool stuff so far but still has a ways to go...
MHIDPA
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Posted: 2/13/2013 4:15:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By layne555:
I was wondering how I could get more info on 3d printing of 30 round mags. I know Printing receivers doesnt work. However more and more I hear about printing of the mags. anyone have any info on this... Maybe material composition, or if anyone has had any luck.


WHat do you mean printing recievers doesn't work? Multipul members here have printed lowers that work fine.
CBR900
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Posted: 2/14/2013 6:31:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 6:31:49 AM EST by CBR900]
Originally Posted By MHIDPA:
Originally Posted By layne555:
I was wondering how I could get more info on 3d printing of 30 round mags. I know Printing receivers doesnt work. However more and more I hear about printing of the mags. anyone have any info on this... Maybe material composition, or if anyone has had any luck.


WHat do you mean printing recievers doesn't work? Multipul members here have printed lowers that work fine.


Why don't you pay for a membership? There is a post in the member's only area. (and no; they tend to "work" for only a short time before breaking from the looks of the thread there).

layne555
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:29:36 AM EST
Pay for membership? I will. How do I go about that ? I love this site / community. Its answered tons of my questions.
layne555
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:31:01 AM EST
The ones I have seen only last for about 80-100 rounds before breaking
headmonkey
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:33:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 8:35:51 AM EST by headmonkey]
You know, real manufacturers use particular methods for a reason.

Can you 3d print anything ? Yes.

Does printing it mean it will work well ? No.

Wtf good is 3d printing good for then ? Prototyping.

How do real boys make magazines ? With a press and dies.

Can I 3d print a die for a press ? Yes ... its called 'milling.'

But milling stuff isn't new and trendy ? So sorry.
RUSHgsxr
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Posted: 2/14/2013 8:58:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
You know, real manufacturers use particular methods for a reason.

Can you 3d print anything ? Yes.

Does printing it mean it will work well ? No.

Wtf good is 3d printing good for then ? Prototyping.

How do real boys make magazines ? With a press and dies.

Can I 3d print a die for a press ? Yes ... its called 'milling.'

But milling stuff isn't new and trendy ? So sorry.


New and trendy has nothing to do with it. With the current environment we're living it, it's a very real possibility that our time to buy 30 round magazines is limited. There's nothing wrong with looking into a 3d printer to make your own as an alternative. With technology advancing at the speed it is, it's a matter of time before they become reliable magazines.

headmonkey
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Posted: 2/14/2013 9:03:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 9:05:06 AM EST by headmonkey]
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
You know, real manufacturers use particular methods for a reason.

Can you 3d print anything ? Yes.

Does printing it mean it will work well ? No.

Wtf good is 3d printing good for then ? Prototyping.

How do real boys make magazines ? With a press and dies.

Can I 3d print a die for a press ? Yes ... its called 'milling.'

But milling stuff isn't new and trendy ? So sorry.


New and trendy has nothing to do with it. With the current environment we're living it, it's a very real possibility that our time to buy 30 round magazines is limited. There's nothing wrong with looking into a 3d printer to make your own as an alternative. With technology advancing at the speed it is, it's a matter of time before they become reliable magazines.



Im glad you can predict how the future of 3d printing will turn out.

Also, if they ban 30 round magazines, it'll be illegal to make your own, regardless of whether you use a fancy as-yet-to-be-developed 3d printing technology or
a 150 year old press.

At least with the 150 year old press, you'll be able to claim you made it before the ban, which you wont be able to do with your 3d printer first made in the year 2020.

{facepalm}

RUSHgsxr
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Posted: 2/14/2013 1:29:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
You know, real manufacturers use particular methods for a reason.

Can you 3d print anything ? Yes.

Does printing it mean it will work well ? No.

Wtf good is 3d printing good for then ? Prototyping.

How do real boys make magazines ? With a press and dies.

Can I 3d print a die for a press ? Yes ... its called 'milling.'

But milling stuff isn't new and trendy ? So sorry.


New and trendy has nothing to do with it. With the current environment we're living it, it's a very real possibility that our time to buy 30 round magazines is limited. There's nothing wrong with looking into a 3d printer to make your own as an alternative. With technology advancing at the speed it is, it's a matter of time before they become reliable magazines.



Im glad you can predict how the future of 3d printing will turn out.

Also, if they ban 30 round magazines, it'll be illegal to make your own, regardless of whether you use a fancy as-yet-to-be-developed 3d printing technology or
a 150 year old press.

At least with the 150 year old press, you'll be able to claim you made it before the ban, which you wont be able to do with your 3d printer first made in the year 2020.

{facepalm}



Right, and I'm sure plenty of fellas like you thought 10 years ago that polymer magazines were ridiculous too. Now look at em, Magpul has a huge portion of the market with plenty of other great polymer magazines out there. I don't know what your talking about with yet to be developed 3d printing technology, its already here, buddy. Its simply a matter of developing the plastics their printing with a little more.

Also, as far as milling and stamping magazines go, much more equipment and knowledge is required. With 3d printers you'll be able to download a file, hit print and bam, ya got your magazine. No offense, but it seems rather foolish to me to just write off a technology because it's still being developed to its full potential.

ScoeyAz
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Posted: 2/14/2013 1:54:13 PM EST
As an engineer 3d printing has been around for a while now.
I have logged about 6 years of hardcore cad experience and rapid prototyping experience varying of all degrees.

Different SLS printers have different types of accuracy.
They also use different materials.
Abs plastic, Nylon, powder form, and some melt metals like magnesium and print them.


Several production parts in fighter jet engines are also easier to 3d print then to manufacture.

Check out a uPrint rental.
headmonkey
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Posted: 2/14/2013 5:38:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 5:55:10 PM EST by headmonkey]
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
You know, real manufacturers use particular methods for a reason.

Can you 3d print anything ? Yes.

Does printing it mean it will work well ? No.

Wtf good is 3d printing good for then ? Prototyping.

How do real boys make magazines ? With a press and dies.

Can I 3d print a die for a press ? Yes ... its called 'milling.'

But milling stuff isn't new and trendy ? So sorry.


New and trendy has nothing to do with it. With the current environment we're living it, it's a very real possibility that our time to buy 30 round magazines is limited. There's nothing wrong with looking into a 3d printer to make your own as an alternative. With technology advancing at the speed it is, it's a matter of time before they become reliable magazines.



Im glad you can predict how the future of 3d printing will turn out.

Also, if they ban 30 round magazines, it'll be illegal to make your own, regardless of whether you use a fancy as-yet-to-be-developed 3d printing technology or
a 150 year old press.

At least with the 150 year old press, you'll be able to claim you made it before the ban, which you wont be able to do with your 3d printer first made in the year 2020.

{facepalm}



Right, and I'm sure plenty of fellas like you thought 10 years ago that polymer magazines were ridiculous too. Now look at em, Magpul has a huge portion of the market with plenty of other great polymer magazines out there. I don't know what your talking about with yet to be developed 3d printing technology, its already here, buddy. Its simply a matter of developing the plastics their printing with a little more.

Also, as far as milling and stamping magazines go, much more equipment and knowledge is required. With 3d printers you'll be able to download a file, hit print and bam, ya got your magazine. No offense, but it seems rather foolish to me to just write off a technology because it's still being developed to its full potential.



You have a severe reading comprehension problem.

If you can produce a link to information concerning the 3d printing of an AR15 magazine that will function properly and
is durable enough to be a viable alternative to pressing or injection molding, great. If you can't, stfu bu-ddy.
RUSHgsxr
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Posted: 2/14/2013 6:07:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
You know, real manufacturers use particular methods for a reason.

Can you 3d print anything ? Yes.

Does printing it mean it will work well ? No.

Wtf good is 3d printing good for then ? Prototyping.

How do real boys make magazines ? With a press and dies.

Can I 3d print a die for a press ? Yes ... its called 'milling.'

But milling stuff isn't new and trendy ? So sorry.


New and trendy has nothing to do with it. With the current environment we're living it, it's a very real possibility that our time to buy 30 round magazines is limited. There's nothing wrong with looking into a 3d printer to make your own as an alternative. With technology advancing at the speed it is, it's a matter of time before they become reliable magazines.



Im glad you can predict how the future of 3d printing will turn out.

Also, if they ban 30 round magazines, it'll be illegal to make your own, regardless of whether you use a fancy as-yet-to-be-developed 3d printing technology or
a 150 year old press.

At least with the 150 year old press, you'll be able to claim you made it before the ban, which you wont be able to do with your 3d printer first made in the year 2020.

{facepalm}



Right, and I'm sure plenty of fellas like you thought 10 years ago that polymer magazines were ridiculous too. Now look at em, Magpul has a huge portion of the market with plenty of other great polymer magazines out there. I don't know what your talking about with yet to be developed 3d printing technology, its already here, buddy. Its simply a matter of developing the plastics their printing with a little more.

Also, as far as milling and stamping magazines go, much more equipment and knowledge is required. With 3d printers you'll be able to download a file, hit print and bam, ya got your magazine. No offense, but it seems rather foolish to me to just write off a technology because it's still being developed to its full potential.



You have a severe reading comprehension problem.

If you can produce a link to information concerning the 3d printing of an AR15 magazine that will function properly and
is durable enough to be a viable alternative to pressing or injection molding, great. If you can't, stfu bu-ddy.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW3MMvKrkN0

Hmmm. Check out 1 min 47 seconds in, shows a perfectly functioning 30 round printed magazine firing. Apparently you're not too interested in just having an intelligent conversation about it... so enjoy the video, bu-ddy. Also, if thats not 'legit' enough for you, check out Defense Distributed's website. http://defensedistributed.com/ They've been working on this stuff for several years now.
headmonkey
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Posted: 2/14/2013 6:12:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 6:25:39 PM EST by headmonkey]
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW3MMvKrkN0

Hmmm. Check out 1 min 47 seconds in, shows a perfectly functioning 30 round printed magazine firing. Apparently you're not too interested in just having an intelligent conversation about it... so enjoy the video, bu-ddy. Also, if thats not 'legit' enough for you, check out Defense Distributed's website. http://defensedistributed.com/ They've been working on this stuff for several years now.


It functioned for an entire 1 minutes and 47 seconds in an ideal test environment.

Crank up the production process and start the packaging equipment. It's ready for the battle field !

I'm well aware of defense distributeds efforts. Aware enough to know, it's not production quality.

If we were discussing lightbulbs, they'd be on Edisons first attempt, not his 500,000th attempt that finally worked.

UPDATE: ... the part he is holding in his hand in the video is broken, and I'm not at all surprised, because that
is the current state of 3d printing. Noone knows if 3d printing will be able to produce *any* part with *any* set of
functional properties for use in *any* environment some day. Odds are against it.

I'm all ears if you can find information on a 3d printing technology that will print a functional AR15 magazine or
lower or upper. Until then, the technology simply doesn't exist. And when I say "3d printing technology" i say it
with the understanding that there are multiple types of 3d printing technologies and they are not all the same and
the resulting products do not all have the same functional properties.


RUSHgsxr
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Posted: 2/14/2013 6:23:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW3MMvKrkN0

Hmmm. Check out 1 min 47 seconds in, shows a perfectly functioning 30 round printed magazine firing. Apparently you're not too interested in just having an intelligent conversation about it... so enjoy the video, bu-ddy. Also, if thats not 'legit' enough for you, check out Defense Distributed's website. http://defensedistributed.com/ They've been working on this stuff for several years now.


It functioned for an entire 1 minutes and 47 seconds in an ideal test environment.

Crank up the production process and start the packaging equipment. It's ready for the battle field !

I'm well aware of defense distributeds efforts. Aware enough to know, it's not production quality.

If we were discussing lightbulbs, they'd be on Edisons first attempt, not his 500,000th attempt that finally worked.



I'm not suggesting that these magazines are battle field ready. More like my back yard ready. All I am saying is the technology is there, it will only get better in the coming future, and it wouldn't be a bad thing to be messing around with. Cheaper that investing in all the tooling to be making metal ones. Frankly, I'd love to be making these and using em at the range and leaving my magpuls at home for home defense. But that's just me.
headmonkey
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Posted: 2/14/2013 6:30:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/14/2013 6:59:06 PM EST by headmonkey]
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:

I'm not suggesting that these magazines are battle field ready. More like my back yard ready. All I am saying is the technology is there, it will only get better in the coming future, and it wouldn't be a bad thing to be messing around with. Cheaper that investing in all the tooling to be making metal ones. Frankly, I'd love to be making these and using em at the range and leaving my magpuls at home for home defense. But that's just me.


This is why I called 3d printing "new and trendy." It is in fact, new and trendy, and people who think its neat, are looking for all sorts of problems to solve with it, even if the problems don't necessarily exist. And that is what I am saying.

I am not writing off an entire technology. I am not a luddite.

I am a realist. And realistically, for major AR 15 components that see actual use and any amount of stress ... it's not ready.

It'll be awhile before star trek replicators are real.

All that said ... someone should email the guy, and suggest he spray his 3d printed part with conductive paint, then hard chrome plate them. They might last a bit longer that way, and he could still create them in small qty's in his garage, if thats the ultimate goal. But then again, people are already milling their own lowers in their garage in small qtys for less money than what 3d printers cost.

As for the original poster who wanted to make his own magazine, it seems to me milling a set of dies, for use in a small home press, would result in an actual useable magazine far sooner than waiting for someone to perfect 3d printing enough to do it. Bird in the hand .... If he's really concerned about a ban, he should call the factory that makes Brownells aluminum magazine bodies for them, and order up 100 of them. Or 1,000 of them. Thats certainly enough to last his lifetime, and it makes far more sense than potentially waiting for a lifetime for a new technology to be perfected that delivers a product that current technology already can.

There's a guy on youtube that made a custom set of dies and a jig for himself, to produce his own ammunition, using copper water tubing from the local hardware store. It costs more than simply buying ammunition, but it has real value and produces a useable product in the event of supply shortages.

It's important that people continue to push the boundries of what is possible.

It's also important for people to not confuse the efforts of those pushing the boundries, with production ready products and processes.

Popular Science for the last 100 years is filled with articles of people pushing boundries, and relatively few of them panned out as envisioned.

The doorless refrigerator anyone ? Mollers SkyCar ? Vaccum tube delivery of stuff to the home ?


RUSHgsxr
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Posted: 2/14/2013 6:42:32 PM EST
You are correct, not ready yet. Will be getting there tho, I'll be keeping an eye on it.
layne555
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Posted: 2/15/2013 10:11:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By ScoeyAz:
As an engineer 3d printing has been around for a while now.
I have logged about 6 years of hardcore cad experience and rapid prototyping experience varying of all degrees.

Different SLS printers have different types of accuracy.
They also use different materials.
Abs plastic, Nylon, powder form, and some melt metals like magnesium and print them.


Several production parts in fighter jet engines are also easier to 3d print then to manufacture.

Check out a uPrint rental.


This is good info. Thanks , ill check them out. What is your opinion on the durabilty of the materials currently around to print with?
layne555
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Posted: 2/15/2013 10:19:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:



All that said ... someone should email the guy, and suggest he spray his 3d printed part with conductive paint, then hard chrome plate them. They might last a bit longer that way, and he could still create them in small qty's in his garage, if thats the ultimate goal. But then again, people are already milling their own lowers in their garage in small qtys for less money than what 3d printers cost.





That is actually a good idea. To be able to treat the material after the printing. With thousands of users on this site Nothing is impossible if we put our heads together.
headmonkey
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Posted: 2/16/2013 4:23:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/16/2013 4:24:20 AM EST by headmonkey]
Originally Posted By layne555:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By RUSHgsxr:

All that said ... someone should email the guy, and suggest he spray his 3d printed part with conductive paint, then hard chrome plate them. They might last a bit longer that way, and he could still create them in small qty's in his garage, if thats the ultimate goal. But then again, people are already milling their own lowers in their garage in small qtys for less money than what 3d printers cost.



That is actually a good idea. To be able to treat the material after the printing. With thousands of users on this site Nothing is impossible if we put our heads together.


I did a little more research. There are a couple of companies, one in Germany, and one in Sweden, currently produceing a machine and process involving laser sintering of metal powders. They mentioned they could use steel or titatanium powders, and that the resulting parts are "100% dense" and that they could be machined and parts can be made up to a 50 HRC ( rockwell hardness ) rating.

What I could not find was cost of the machines, or any tensile strength ratings, as a part could be dense, but still be brittle and subject to tension stress failures. Parts made of steel of course, could be further processed via hard chrome plating to increase their overall strength.

So at this point I'm going to change my mind concerning the possibilities, but I'm still extremely skeptical on the current economic reality of it.