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Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:22:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shabazz18:


Actual Lowers people!!


Any company that would use the term "assault weapon" in their product description...especially in this climate....is suspect. I'll pass.
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:25:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Walken1:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:


Actual Lowers people!!


Any company that would use the term "assault weapon" in their product description...especially in this climate....is suspect. I'll pass.


The price, shipping, ffl fees for a company I never even heard of will make me pass.
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:32:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:

Just asking because a place here in ATLANTA get some like ever week the good 100 lowers 30 uppers 40 complete guns on tuesday


Who is that? Why not just grab one locally if available?


The ar bunker they have a FB page they update often and a webpage as well. well lowers are 159 so.....


I'd be highly reluctant to believe they receive that many, per week out of spikes. We buy millions of dollars a year from Spike's, and things are much more scarce than that. I could be wrong, but I dunno.

$159 for a spike's lower isn't bad without a transfer fee in today's market, or shipping, and being able to support a local shop... At least IMO.
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:35:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2013 8:36:32 PM EDT by Shooter_Mc_Gavin]
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:

Just asking because a place here in ATLANTA get some like ever week the good 100 lowers 30 uppers 40 complete guns on tuesday


Who is that? Why not just grab one locally if available?


The ar bunker they have a FB page they update often and a webpage as well. well lowers are 159 so.....


I'd be highly reluctant to believe they receive that many, per week out of spikes. We buy millions of dollars a year from Spike's, and things are much more scarce than that. I could be wrong, but I dunno.

$159 for a spike's lower isn't bad without a transfer fee in today's market, or shipping, and being able to support a local shop... At least IMO.


Okay real problem is .... I need a 14.5" upper with barrel, a2 sight, don't need hand guards, bcg, or handle... lets make this happen!
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:37:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:

Just asking because a place here in ATLANTA get some like ever week the good 100 lowers 30 uppers 40 complete guns on tuesday


Who is that? Why not just grab one locally if available?


The ar bunker they have a FB page they update often and a webpage as well. well lowers are 159 so.....


I'd be highly reluctant to believe they receive that many, per week out of spikes. We buy millions of dollars a year from Spike's, and things are much more scarce than that. I could be wrong, but I dunno.




$159 for a spike's lower isn't bad without a transfer fee in today's market, or shipping, and being able to support a local shop... At least IMO.


Thats what they got tues they do not get that much ever week. I did pick up a lower the cal jack one, i was surprised at the end of the day they still had 23 out of 100. Yes i do like supporting my loc store. But i like your store because you support us military guys
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:40:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:

Just asking because a place here in ATLANTA get some like ever week the good 100 lowers 30 uppers 40 complete guns on tuesday


Who is that? Why not just grab one locally if available?


The ar bunker they have a FB page they update often and a webpage as well. well lowers are 159 so.....


I'd be highly reluctant to believe they receive that many, per week out of spikes. We buy millions of dollars a year from Spike's, and things are much more scarce than that. I could be wrong, but I dunno.




$159 for a spike's lower isn't bad without a transfer fee in today's market, or shipping, and being able to support a local shop... At least IMO.


Thats what they got tues they do not get that much ever week. I did pick up a lower the cal jack one, i was surprised at the end of the day they still had 23 out of 100. Yes i do like supporting my loc store. But i like your store because you support us military guys


Sorry for the mistake s im on my phone
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:42:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:

Just asking because a place here in ATLANTA get some like ever week the good 100 lowers 30 uppers 40 complete guns on tuesday


Who is that? Why not just grab one locally if available?


The ar bunker they have a FB page they update often and a webpage as well. well lowers are 159 so.....


I'd be highly reluctant to believe they receive that many, per week out of spikes. We buy millions of dollars a year from Spike's, and things are much more scarce than that. I could be wrong, but I dunno.




$159 for a spike's lower isn't bad without a transfer fee in today's market, or shipping, and being able to support a local shop... At least IMO.


Thats what they got tues they do not get that much ever week. I did pick up a lower the cal jack one, i was surprised at the end of the day they still had 23 out of 100. Yes i do like supporting my loc store. But i like your store because you support us military guys



I'm from San Antonio, Tx. I will fly there next week if they really have that kind of inventory.
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:42:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2013 8:43:18 PM EDT by JoeBob1901]
Originally Posted By Midga:

Thats what they got tues they do not get that much ever week. I did pick up a lower the cal jack one, i was surprised at the end of the day they still had 23 out of 100. Yes i do like supporting my loc store. But i like your store because you support us military guys


I gotya. That's a good shipment of product in, but its few and far between lately from Spike's unfortunately. I'd love to take your money, but those prices aren't bad at all in today's market. They could get 2-3 times that on lowers. It might tick off a few guys, but they could get it.

Originally Posted By Shooter_Mc_Gavin:

Okay real problem is .... I need a 14.5" upper with barrel, a2 sight, don't need hand guards, bcg, or handle... lets make this happen!


I got you covered

http://bit.ly/thAMcj



Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:43:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:

His name is Joebob"something" and its a link to joeboboutfitters. So I think this is a store owner with a quick draw on the blame. LOL at calling the guy numbnuts and its not even him in the wrong.... its been crickets since people figured out you can search it on the site lol.


The cart software is already set to "hide" the product. Our 3rd party search engine software seems to have ignored that. We didn't have this issue for several months selling these direct to dealers, so not sure if its related to a google searchable link or what. It was never searchable (that we were aware) prior to this link.

One should not post a link as obvious as that as "in stock", regardless, if its obviously not available to the public. It's like us posting links to a distributor who only sells to dealers. RSR Group has PMAG's in stock, for instance, daily.

http://www.rsrgroup.com/catalog/product/MGMPI570BLK



Why are you here insulting potential customers and trying to justify your mistakes? You just made your company look like s&*$
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:44:08 PM EDT
dammit haha
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 8:46:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Walken1:
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:

Just asking because a place here in ATLANTA get some like ever week the good 100 lowers 30 uppers 40 complete guns on tuesday


Who is that? Why not just grab one locally if available?


The ar bunker they have a FB page they update often and a webpage as well. well lowers are 159 so.....


I'd be highly reluctant to believe they receive that many, per week out of spikes. We buy millions of dollars a year from Spike's, and things are much more scarce than that. I could be wrong, but I dunno.




$159 for a spike's lower isn't bad without a transfer fee in today's market, or shipping, and being able to support a local shop... At least IMO.


Thats what they got tues they do not get that much ever week. I did pick up a lower the cal jack one, i was surprised at the end of the day they still had 23 out of 100. Yes i do like supporting my loc store. But i like your store because you support us military guys



I'm from San Antonio, Tx. I will fly there next week if they really have that kind of inventory.

Pm me
Link Posted: 1/30/2013 11:29:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgt_mole:
ALL that bought ati omni's the other day... now they are saying they were in stock and will ship.. Kinda getting the run around from these people ATI is dropping the ball..


Yep, appears they can't get their story straight from day to day or person to person, lots of ever morphing excuses with no real answers except that their supposedly in stock item is going to take weeks or months to ship...
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 2:23:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By exoray:
Originally Posted By sgt_mole:
ALL that bought ati omni's the other day... now they are saying they were in stock and will ship.. Kinda getting the run around from these people ATI is dropping the ball..


Yep, appears they can't get their story straight from day to day or person to person, lots of ever morphing excuses with no real answers except that their supposedly in stock item is going to take weeks or months to ship...


Don't worry, it was only a glitch.. And they don't know why someone said 2 months but that has been addressed. You guys should know by now that everything is fine! Just check your account details. Oh wait we can't... yeah I'll believe them when they actually answer a question instead of just posting generic statements.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 3:29:29 AM EDT
b
Originally Posted By sgt_mole:
ALL that bought ati omni's the other day... now they are saying they were in stock and will ship.. Kinda getting the run around from these people ATI is dropping the ball..


This is the respose I received last night"

Please allow 30-45 days to receive these parts



Jaime Ramos customer service rep.

American Tactical Imports

Phone #800-290-0065

fax#585-328-4168


After sending in this email to them,

Hello,

First off my order number is 23XXXX. I purchased two omni stripped lowers from you on 1/26/13 and have a invoice and my credit card has been billed.

I have sent two emails thru your website with no answer trying to find out the status of my order due to it not showing up on your website and the heavy chatter on your facebook
as well as ar15.com regarding problems with shipping. I have selected a FFL from your site and want to make sure that everything is in order and when my order will ship.

Please respond to this email as soon as possible so I know I don't have to dispute the charges with my credit card company.

Thanks,
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 3:39:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shooter_Mc_Gavin:
Originally Posted By Walken1:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:


Actual Lowers people!!


Any company that would use the term "assault weapon" in their product description...especially in this climate....is suspect. I'll pass.


The price, shipping, ffl fees for a company I never even heard of will make me pass.


I felt the same at first but took a chance on it. Order already shipped and previous reviews on this forum are good. Once everything arrives I will post a review. Should be GTG.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 4:05:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By unsane:
Originally Posted By Shooter_Mc_Gavin:
Originally Posted By Walken1:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:


Actual Lowers people!!


Any company that would use the term "assault weapon" in their product description...especially in this climate....is suspect. I'll pass.


The price, shipping, ffl fees for a company I never even heard of will make me pass.


I felt the same at first but took a chance on it. Order already shipped and previous reviews on this forum are good. Once everything arrives I will post a review. Should be GTG.


Does the lower say CAL 2.23 on it like at the top of their page? Picture's too dark to tell....
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 4:31:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mxdgood84:
Originally Posted By unsane:
Originally Posted By Shooter_Mc_Gavin:
Originally Posted By Walken1:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:


Actual Lowers people!!


Any company that would use the term "assault weapon" in their product description...especially in this climate....is suspect. I'll pass.


The price, shipping, ffl fees for a company I never even heard of will make me pass.


I felt the same at first but took a chance on it. Order already shipped and previous reviews on this forum are good. Once everything arrives I will post a review. Should be GTG.


Does the lower say CAL 2.23 on it like at the top of their page? Picture's too dark to tell....


What functional company out there tries to sell stripped lowers to guys like us with a website emblazoned with "2.23" seriously. I'm not convinced from that picture that the lower itself doesn't say the same thing.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 4:44:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By unsane:

I felt the same at first but took a chance on it. Order already shipped and previous reviews on this forum are good. Once everything arrives I will post a review. Should be GTG.

Paid for mine late Friday. Shipped Monday. It's at my FFL as of yesterday morning and they say it looks just fine (of course I won't be able to find out if it functions as it should until I can find a LPK in stock and install it).
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 4:56:27 AM EDT
i blew the picture up. It does say CAL 223
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 5:04:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RWFoster:
i blew the picture up. It does say CAL 223


Lol, I'm sure they're fine, its just funny that no one pointed it out to them, or that they didn't do anything about it. How hard would it be to fix it so you don't look like amateurs?
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 5:15:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kaiser1114:
Originally Posted By RWFoster:
i blew the picture up. It does say CAL 223


Lol, I'm sure they're fine, its just funny that no one pointed it out to them, or that they didn't do anything about it. How hard would it be to fix it so you don't look like amateurs?


I probably would have ordered one if it had .556 listed on it too.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 5:35:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2013 5:43:36 AM EDT by Dragynn]
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By dejoe19934:
IN Stock Stripped Lowers NFA - $79.95




JoeBob Here....

Hey numbnuts, where did you get this link? Un hyperlink it. It's a dealer only link.

Can a mod/admin come in and delete all these hyperlinks in quotes? Numbnuts shouldn't even have the link, let alone be trying to post it up on arfcom.


Google knows...




Ya know, it's possible to password protect things you don't want freely available on the internet, even a numbnuts should know that. Call the wrong person names on the internet and you wake up to your site's front page being a gif of Nancy Pelosi pegging Chuck Schumer. Subnet and probably 200 other members here wouldn't have much of a problem doing it since y'all don't seem to have very good security protocols.

Just trying to help Joe Bob, i'm a customer, for now, but if you treat my CC info with the same carelessness you've displayed with your dealer-only stuff, you're gonna get on my shitlist real quick.

Link Posted: 1/31/2013 6:29:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2013 6:33:19 AM EDT by jwtdiver]
Originally Posted By kaiser1114:
Originally Posted By mxdgood84:
Originally Posted By unsane:
Originally Posted By Shooter_Mc_Gavin:
Originally Posted By Walken1:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:


Actual Lowers people!!


Any company that would use the term "assault weapon" in their product description...especially in this climate....is suspect. I'll pass.


The price, shipping, ffl fees for a company I never even heard of will make me pass.


I felt the same at first but took a chance on it. Order already shipped and previous reviews on this forum are good. Once everything arrives I will post a review. Should be GTG.


Does the lower say CAL 2.23 on it like at the top of their page? Picture's too dark to tell....


What functional company out there tries to sell stripped lowers to guys like us with a website emblazoned with "2.23" seriously. I'm not convinced from that picture that the lower itself doesn't say the same thing.



I ordered from them on 1/25, credit card orders are call in to the tel number on the website. Josalyn was customer service person I spoke to, impeccable customer service. She told me they had received 400 lowers on 01/24 and had sold down to 250, in stock and shipping immediately as of 1/25. I called her back about 30 minutes later to ask how hard it would be to ensure consecutive serial numbers, and she immediately transferred me to the packing guy, who told me he had just taped up the box, but that they pull them off the shelf in order, so they'll usually be sequential anyway, but actually opened it and verified it for me.
The price is not pre-hysteria, but they were professional, easy to deal with, shipped same day, and my uppers lowers arrived yesterday (01/30) without a hitch. I will order from these ppl again.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 6:34:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jwtdiver:
Originally Posted By kaiser1114:
Originally Posted By mxdgood84:
Originally Posted By unsane:
Originally Posted By Shooter_Mc_Gavin:
Originally Posted By Walken1:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:


Actual Lowers people!!


Any company that would use the term "assault weapon" in their product description...especially in this climate....is suspect. I'll pass.


The price, shipping, ffl fees for a company I never even heard of will make me pass.


I felt the same at first but took a chance on it. Order already shipped and previous reviews on this forum are good. Once everything arrives I will post a review. Should be GTG.


Does the lower say CAL 2.23 on it like at the top of their page? Picture's too dark to tell....


What functional company out there tries to sell stripped lowers to guys like us with a website emblazoned with "2.23" seriously. I'm not convinced from that picture that the lower itself doesn't say the same thing.



I ordered from them on 1/25, credit card orders are call in to the tel number on the website. Josalyn was customer service person I spoke to, impeccable customer service. She told me they had received 400 lowers on 01/24 and had sold down to 250, in stock and shipping immediately as of 1/25. I called her back about 30 minutes later to ask how hard it would be to ensure consecutive serial numbers, and she immediately transferred me to the packing guy, who told me he had just taped up the box, but that they pull them off the shelf in order, so they'll usually be sequential anyway, but actually opened it and verified it for me.
The price is not pre-hysteria, but they were professional, easy to deal with, shipped same day, and my uppers arrived yesterday (01/30) without a hitch. I will order from these ppl again.


Good to know, its always nice to have another decent company to deal with... did you tell them to fix the 2.23?
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 6:39:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jwtdiver:
Originally Posted By kaiser1114:
Originally Posted By mxdgood84:
Originally Posted By unsane:
Originally Posted By Shooter_Mc_Gavin:
Originally Posted By Walken1:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:


Actual Lowers people!!


Any company that would use the term "assault weapon" in their product description...especially in this climate....is suspect. I'll pass.


The price, shipping, ffl fees for a company I never even heard of will make me pass.


I felt the same at first but took a chance on it. Order already shipped and previous reviews on this forum are good. Once everything arrives I will post a review. Should be GTG.


Does the lower say CAL 2.23 on it like at the top of their page? Picture's too dark to tell....


What functional company out there tries to sell stripped lowers to guys like us with a website emblazoned with "2.23" seriously. I'm not convinced from that picture that the lower itself doesn't say the same thing.



I ordered from them on 1/25, credit card orders are call in to the tel number on the website. Josalyn was customer service person I spoke to, impeccable customer service. She told me they had received 400 lowers on 01/24 and had sold down to 250, in stock and shipping immediately as of 1/25. I called her back about 30 minutes later to ask how hard it would be to ensure consecutive serial numbers, and she immediately transferred me to the packing guy, who told me he had just taped up the box, but that they pull them off the shelf in order, so they'll usually be sequential anyway, but actually opened it and verified it for me.
The price is not pre-hysteria, but they were professional, easy to deal with, shipped same day, and my uppers lowers arrived yesterday (01/30) without a hitch. I will order from these ppl again.


All your posts are about this company, you'd think you work there....hint hint...
Pre hysteria prices? I don't think so...
That place is a rip off...$43 for a trasfer when everyone else in the area is $25! I know, I live in oakbrook, il

Link Posted: 1/31/2013 6:45:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ratko:All your posts are about this company, you'd think you work there....hint hint...
Pre hysteria prices? I don't think so...
That place is a rip off...$43 for a trasfer when everyone else in the area is $25! I know, I live in oakbrook, il






most places are 20-25 bucks out by me....I found one that's 10 :) that's where I'll be doing all my transfers

Link Posted: 1/31/2013 6:55:01 AM EDT
I can also vouch for the great customer service. Their Bullet Proof Guarantee isn't bad either http://www.lawweapons.org/index.php/our-bullet-proof-guarantee.


Link Posted: 1/31/2013 7:00:59 AM EDT
Just an update for anyone who might want to know.

I finally got a response from Clint at Fulton Armory. Stripped lowers were indeed in stock and will be shipped as soon as they get the FFL (which I just had my dealer fax over to them this morning). So everything should be good to go.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 7:14:28 AM EDT
Just got a shipping notice from citizenarmory on the poly lowers saying shipped. Now of i could just find a 308 lower.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 7:33:48 AM EDT
http://www.ar-matey.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=0111

10 pack of lowers for anyone who wants to hoard them up.

3 lots of 10 remaining at time of this posting.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 7:43:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2013 7:57:13 AM EDT by Dopavash1]
Originally Posted By Struttin:
http://www.ar-matey.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=0111

10 pack of lowers for anyone who wants to hoard them up.

3 lots of 10 remaining at time of this posting.


Thanks! That was exactly what I needed. I ordered when there was two, now there's one. Live counter.

I'm not hoarding them, BTW. I'm kind of the resident gunsmith for all of my family and they've all asked me to build them one. Now, if I can find some kits.....


Edit: Of course, they were out of stock of the single and 3-pack NFA lowers... I wonder if they didn't actually have them in stock, but their site just had the 10pack left on the counter...Out of stock now, btw.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:05:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2013 8:05:42 AM EDT by calcagno45]
For those that ordered LRB lowers from Wideners, I just got charged on my CC for the lower. I had my FFL send his information in onTuesday. Any one else have progress or shipping?
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:06:24 AM EDT
Anyone know of a way to get ahold of ati?
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:09:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By calcagno45:
For those that ordered LRB lowers from Wideners, I just got charged on my CC for the lower. I had my FFL send his information in onTuesday. Any one else have progress or shipping?


Same thing here. Haven't heard anything about the shipping yet.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:14:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By calcagno45:
For those that ordered LRB lowers from Wideners, I just got charged on my CC for the lower. I had my FFL send his information in onTuesday. Any one else have progress or shipping?


My card was charged a while ago. Got shipping info the day before yesterday, will be at my FFL tomorrow.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:23:54 AM EDT
Actually got ahold of someone from ati, they gave order #, and confirmation and said will ship by next week!!!
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:25:01 AM EDT
Isn't it about time for someone to post $100 non-plastic lowers in stock somewhere?
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:33:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wink007:
Actually got ahold of someone from ati, they gave order #, and confirmation and said will ship by next week!!!


At this point I wouldn't trust a single word you hear from ATI , not one word let them prove it with actions because their word at this point is not worth the breath it takes to speak it...! Just scroll up a few post where another member was just told 30-45 for delivery, next week is a world of difference from 45 day yet they are quoting both, aka they don't have a clue and are just tossing numbers out there so that you have an answer even though it's rubbish...

ATI is handling this situation in the worst possible way, they have been changing their story, making excuses and have been playing a game of smoke and mirrors since day one, a completely deplorable approach to customer support and a horrible business practice all around...

Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:39:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dan_Gray:
Originally Posted By AdamJR1968:
Originally Posted By ccloud:
Nice try. Notice that I cited a statute that has already been effect for many years. And yes, the DOJ enforces the statute regularly. In fact, if you email me, I will provide you several westlaw cases (between 2008 and 2012) where the DOJ has been enforcing the statute against people who have sold as few as four firearms (a lower is a firearm). If you want to engage in the "business" of dealing in firearms, you better have an FFL or your facing five years in the pen. Business has been defined by the Federal circuit courts as any economic motive.


I am completely good with that. I have to order things through my FFL and pay transfer fees. If I purchase a firearm in person at a LGS I have to wait an appropriate waiting period. If you want to sell for a profit fill out the forms and get licensed.



Are you a lawyer specializing in gun legislation? Or have you applied for an FFL? There are circumstances in which you can sell and make a profit where the ATF tells you specifically to NOT get a license.


Hi Dan: I note that you are a Team Member with a large number of posts and, therefore, I know you possess a wealth of firearm knowledge. Although I did not quote any specific comment, my post was in reference to preceding comments in this thread about individuals “flipping” multiple lower receivers –commonly meaning the purchase and sale of an item within a short period for a profit. My understanding is that this activity would be a violation of the GCA of 1968. For the benefit of myself and others, please help us understand whether ATF/DOJ would frown upon non-licensees “flipping” lowers. In support of my prior position, I provide the following, with web citations for those who do not have access to Westlaw:

Federal Statute states, “It shall be unlawful for any person except a … licensed dealer, to engage in the business of … dealing in firearms…” 18 U.S.C.A. § 922(a)(1)(A) (link: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf).

Federal Statute defines “engaged in the business” as, “a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.” 18 U.S.C.A. § 921(a)(21)(C) (link: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf).

Notwithstanding the statutory defense for persons who transfer firearms “for the enhancement of a personal collection,” Federal Courts have held that, “The government need not prove that dealing in firearms was the defendant’s ‘primary business,’” it “need only prove that the defendant ‘has guns on hand or is ready and able to procure them for the purpose of selling them from to time to such persons as might be accepted as customers.’ U.S. v. Carter, 801 F.2d 78, 81-82 (2d Cir. 1986) (citations omitted) (link: https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/801/801.F2d.78.86-1144.86-1141.1430-1433.html).

A 2010 case affirmed an unlicensed dealing in firearms guilty verdict based solely upon evidence that a man sold an informant two firearms in a one month period and told the informant he had other firearms for sale. U.S. v. Shan, 361 Fed.Appx. 182, 183 (2d Cir. 2010) (link: http://federal-circuits.vlex.com/vid/united-states-v-shan-74614649).

In a 2012 Texas case, a Federal Court held that a “defendant engages in the business of dealing in firearms when his ‘principal motivation is economic’ and he ‘pursues this objective through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms’” U.S. v. Brenner, 481 Fed.Appx. 124 (5th Cir. 2012) (link: http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca5/11-50432/11-50432-2012-04-30.html).

In light of the foregoing, does a non-licensee not pose the risk of penalty under the GCA for flipping lower receivers?


Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:52:14 AM EDT
I would say yes, unless he is using the proceeds to build a nice rifle or two. In that regards his actions are for enhancing his collection.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:53:06 AM EDT
I thought this was a lower receiver thread and not a question whether something is lawful thread.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:53:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ccloud:
Originally Posted By Dan_Gray:
Originally Posted By AdamJR1968:
Originally Posted By ccloud:
Nice try. Notice that I cited a statute that has already been effect for many years. And yes, the DOJ enforces the statute regularly. In fact, if you email me, I will provide you several westlaw cases (between 2008 and 2012) where the DOJ has been enforcing the statute against people who have sold as few as four firearms (a lower is a firearm). If you want to engage in the "business" of dealing in firearms, you better have an FFL or your facing five years in the pen. Business has been defined by the Federal circuit courts as any economic motive.


I am completely good with that. I have to order things through my FFL and pay transfer fees. If I purchase a firearm in person at a LGS I have to wait an appropriate waiting period. If you want to sell for a profit fill out the forms and get licensed.



Are you a lawyer specializing in gun legislation? Or have you applied for an FFL? There are circumstances in which you can sell and make a profit where the ATF tells you specifically to NOT get a license.


Hi Dan: I note that you are a Team Member with a large number of posts and, therefore, I know you possess a wealth of firearm knowledge. Although I did not quote any specific comment, my post was in reference to preceding comments in this thread about individuals “flipping” multiple lower receivers –commonly meaning the purchase and sale of an item within a short period for a profit. My understanding is that this activity would be a violation of the GCA of 1968. For the benefit of myself and others, please help us understand whether ATF/DOJ would frown upon non-licensees “flipping” lowers. In support of my prior position, I provide the following, with web citations for those who do not have access to Westlaw:

Federal Statute states, “It shall be unlawful for any person except a … licensed dealer, to engage in the business of … dealing in firearms…” 18 U.S.C.A. § 922(a)(1)(A) (link: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf).

Federal Statute defines “engaged in the business” as, “a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.” 18 U.S.C.A. § 921(a)(21)(C) (link: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf).

Notwithstanding the statutory defense for persons who transfer firearms “for the enhancement of a personal collection,” Federal Courts have held that, “The government need not prove that dealing in firearms was the defendant’s ‘primary business,’” it “need only prove that the defendant ‘has guns on hand or is ready and able to procure them for the purpose of selling them from to time to such persons as might be accepted as customers.’ U.S. v. Carter, 801 F.2d 78, 81-82 (2d Cir. 1986) (citations omitted) (link: https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/801/801.F2d.78.86-1144.86-1141.1430-1433.html).

A 2010 case affirmed an unlicensed dealing in firearms guilty verdict based solely upon evidence that a man sold an informant two firearms in a one month period and told the informant he had other firearms for sale. U.S. v. Shan, 361 Fed.Appx. 182, 183 (2d Cir. 2010) (link: http://federal-circuits.vlex.com/vid/united-states-v-shan-74614649).

In a 2012 Texas case, a Federal Court held that a “defendant engages in the business of dealing in firearms when his ‘principal motivation is economic’ and he ‘pursues this objective through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms’” U.S. v. Brenner, 481 Fed.Appx. 124 (5th Cir. 2012) (link: http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca5/11-50432/11-50432-2012-04-30.html).

In light of the foregoing, does a non-licensee not pose the risk of penalty under the GCA for flipping lower receivers?




A lot of people just bought too many lowers not knowing what was going to be available and now just need to thin the herd.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:54:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2013 8:55:48 AM EDT by Chabrone]
Clauses like "regular course of trade" and "principal objective of livelihood" would be hard to prove because someone flipped a few lowers. I wouldn't want to be the person they are trying to prove it against because I would win but it would be an expensive victory. Can we get this thread back on track now...

I need a lower for a poor little 6.5 Grendel Sabre Upper.
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:55:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chabrone:
Clauses like "regular course of trade" and "principal objective of livelihood" would be hard to prove because someone flipped a few lowers. I wouldn't want to be the person they are trying to prove it against because I would win but it would be an expensive victory.


Exactly, so where da lowers at?
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 8:58:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Taboot:
Isn't it about time for someone to post $100 non-plastic lowers in stock somewhere?


Wouldn't that be nice?
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 9:06:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shabazz18:
Originally Posted By calcagno45:
For those that ordered LRB lowers from Wideners, I just got charged on my CC for the lower. I had my FFL send his information in onTuesday. Any one else have progress or shipping?


My card was charged a while ago. Got shipping info the day before yesterday, will be at my FFL tomorrow.


Can you tell us when you ordered from wideners?
Thanks

Link Posted: 1/31/2013 9:23:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 838nole:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:
Originally Posted By calcagno45:
For those that ordered LRB lowers from Wideners, I just got charged on my CC for the lower. I had my FFL send his information in onTuesday. Any one else have progress or shipping?


My card was charged a while ago. Got shipping info the day before yesterday, will be at my FFL tomorrow.


Can you tell us when you ordered from wideners?
Thanks



Ordered on the 24th
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 9:27:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:
Originally Posted By JoeBob1901:
Originally Posted By Midga:

Just asking because a place here in ATLANTA get some like ever week the good 100 lowers 30 uppers 40 complete guns on tuesday


Who is that? Why not just grab one locally if available?


The ar bunker they have a FB page they update often and a webpage as well. well lowers are 159 so.....


I'd be highly reluctant to believe they receive that many, per week out of spikes. We buy millions of dollars a year from Spike's, and things are much more scarce than that. I could be wrong, but I dunno.




$159 for a spike's lower isn't bad without a transfer fee in today's market, or shipping, and being able to support a local shop... At least IMO.


Thats what they got tues they do not get that much ever week. I did pick up a lower the cal jack one, i was surprised at the end of the day they still had 23 out of 100. Yes i do like supporting my loc store. But i like your store because you support us military guys


I just came home from the AR Bunker [3 hour drive one way after a 12 hour midshift.... hooyah dedication]. They sold out on Tuesday. It's gonna be a while before they have anymore in stock. Nice people though, and their shop is TRULY an AR-specific joint.... only 1 AR left on their shelves, and it was way to rich for my blood. That said, their prices aren't too bad. It did suck, though, that they wouldn't let me pre-order one for myself and one for my wife out of their next shipment, even though I showed up in uniform with a 6 hour round trip, but hey.... these is desperate times. When they DO have spikes [or other] lowers, they're indeed $159 a piece.

G'night.
V/R
Ken
Link Posted: 1/31/2013 9:28:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shabazz18:
Originally Posted By 838nole:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:
Originally Posted By calcagno45:
For those that ordered LRB lowers from Wideners, I just got charged on my CC for the lower. I had my FFL send his information in onTuesday. Any one else have progress or shipping?


My card was charged a while ago. Got shipping info the day before yesterday, will be at my FFL tomorrow.


Can you tell us when you ordered from wideners?
Thanks



Ordered on the 24th


Ordered the 25 cc charged the 28th

Link Posted: 1/31/2013 9:28:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shabazz18:
Originally Posted By 838nole:
Originally Posted By shabazz18:
Originally Posted By calcagno45:
For those that ordered LRB lowers from Wideners, I just got charged on my CC for the lower. I had my FFL send his information in onTuesday. Any one else have progress or shipping?


My card was charged a while ago. Got shipping info the day before yesterday, will be at my FFL tomorrow.


Can you tell us when you ordered from wideners?
Thanks



Ordered on the 24th
Same date I ordered, I've heard nothing yet.

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