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Posted: 2/21/2012 9:02:18 AM
Originally Posted By cruz1911:
triger jobs are better left to a profesional.and remember.that if you happen to shoot someone with that weapon,it falls under modification.  The muzzle should NEVER be pointed at anyone. Practice safe gun handling at all times. Treat every gun as if it is loaded and the safety has malfunctioned. Lots of people have stated to do the drop test. But even with that done, crap can happen. It can happen with stock and aftermarket stuff too. Now; This is a great thread. I plan on doing one of my guns. Thanks to all that have contributed their experience and knowledge. |
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maggiethecat
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2003  USA
 Posts: 412 Feedback: 100% (25) Link To This Post |
Posted: 2/21/2012 10:00:51 AM
Originally Posted By shooterdon:
Originally Posted By cruz1911:
triger jobs are better left to a profesional.and remember.that if you happen to shoot someone with that weapon,it falls under modification. The muzzle should NEVER be pointed at anyone. Practice safe gun handling at all times. Treat every gun as if it is loaded and the safety has malfunctioned. Lots of people have stated to do the drop test. But even with that done, crap can happen. It can happen with stock and aftermarket stuff too. Now; This is a great thread. I plan on doing one of my guns. Thanks to all that have contributed their experience and knowledge. Never? Not even if I intend to shoot them? 
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Posted: 2/21/2012 3:55:03 PM
Originally Posted By shooterdon:
Originally Posted By cruz1911:
triger jobs are better left to a profesional.and remember.that if you happen to shoot someone with that weapon,it falls under modification. The muzzle should NEVER be pointed at anyone. Practice safe gun handling at all times. Treat every gun as if it is loaded and the safety has malfunctioned. Lots of people have stated to do the drop test. But even with that done, crap can happen. It can happen with stock and aftermarket stuff too. Now; This is a great thread. I plan on doing one of my guns. Thanks to all that have contributed their experience and knowledge. I have done this mod to three rifles now and have fired thousands of rounds at this point. No malfunctions of any kind have occured. Now, friends with fancy adjustable triggers can't seem to keep cash in their pockets and their hammers resetting at the same time. |
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Posted: 2/22/2012 1:17:23 PM
Did any of you re-harden the parts after polishing? I'm looking to do this or something similar with new DPMS parts. What type of steel are they made of? Do I need to case-harden them, or can I harden them with oil or water? I've watched the AGI video on hardening but never attempted anything similar.
Any tips would be helpful as I haven't been able to find much information about re-hardening sears etc on-line. "Leave it to a qualified gunsmith" or similar is not very helpful although I do appreciate the concern. /jake |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 7:24:45 PM
Originally Posted By jakeSWE:
Did any of you re-harden the parts after polishing? I'm looking to do this or something similar with new DPMS parts. What type of steel are they made of? Do I need to case-harden them, or can I harden them with oil or water? I've watched the AGI video on hardening but never attempted anything similar. Any tips would be helpful as I haven't been able to find much information about re-hardening sears etc on-line. "Leave it to a qualified gunsmith" or similar is not very helpful although I do appreciate the concern. /jake would like to know what steel the disconnector is myself. I'm a hobby knike maker and harden blades alot, but knowing what steel helps greatly for hardening. |
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Posted: 2/25/2012 11:53:58 AM
[Last Edit: 2/25/2012 11:55:36 AM by jakeSWE]
I sent them (DPMS) an e-mail. I'll come back with the info they provide (if any).
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Posted: 2/26/2012 6:23:55 PM
Had my R25 to the range today. No issues, good directions.
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Posted: 2/29/2012 2:04:37 PM
Great write up. I have one question, what is the purpose of changing the disconnector sping that comes with the JP kit?
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Posted: 3/9/2012 9:30:07 PM
kwrangin, this question is directed at you, but at everyone essentially.
Why are you lightening triggers when you can strengthen your hands and fingers for free? Also, Why make your hammer a few grams lighter by cutting it down (I know, mass in motion yada yada), and then you add heavy stuff to your gun; such as the extra mag well hanging off the port side and that rediculous L shaped thing that appears to be welded with green glue to the bolt catch. Thank You. BTW , very good pictures on the 1st page, kwrangin |
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Posted: 3/10/2012 10:43:33 AM
Originally Posted By sigbangin:
kwrangin, this question is directed at you, but at everyone essentially. Why are you lightening triggers when you can strengthen your hands and fingers for free? Also, Why make your hammer a few grams lighter by cutting it down (I know, mass in motion yada yada), and then you add heavy stuff to your gun; such as the extra mag well hanging off the port side and that rediculous L shaped thing that appears to be welded with green glue to the bolt catch. Thank You. BTW , very good pictures on the 1st page, kwrangin I work with my hands on a daily basis turning wrenches and the like so I doubt any extra exercises are going to increase my digital dexterity. What the trigger mod does is give me a more consistent break that requires a lot less guess work. As far as kwrangin's gun...His gun, his rules. This freedom stuff is a beautiful thing. |
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Posted: 3/10/2012 1:44:55 PM
Very good.
I jump all over my guys when they add on aftermarket parts just because the item is in the current tough guy magazine. The trigger finger should not go anywhere near the trigger except to fire. Not for tripping the bolt catch.... My opinion. |
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Posted: 3/10/2012 3:21:26 PM
Originally Posted By sigbangin:
kwrangin, this question is directed at you, but at everyone essentially. Why are you lightening triggers when you can strengthen your hands and fingers for free? Also, Why make your hammer a few grams lighter by cutting it down (I know, mass in motion yada yada), and then you add heavy stuff to your gun; such as the extra mag well hanging off the port side and that rediculous L shaped thing that appears to be welded with green glue to the bolt catch. Thank You. BTW , very good pictures on the 1st page, kwrangin No problem, I can explain. It seems you are missing the point of the mods. Lightening a trigger is not because of the effort it takes to pull it, it so that the pull is smooth and crisp. Talk to some bullseye shooters who run sub 1 lb trigger pulls in the name of accuracy. I've worked metal fabrication and mechanic type work since I was a kid, hands are plenty strong. Lightening the hammer is not to save weight, it is strictly a mass motion issue to make up for the lighter springs and provide reliable ignition with hard primers. As for my setup, i'm primarily a pistol shooter, and as such I'm used to being able to manipulate all the controls on the weapon without changing my firing hand grip. I've strove to make my AR the same way, the only thing the support hand has to do is rack the charging handle, much like a pistol where all it does is rack the slide. The Redi-mag was removed a long time ago, decided I didn't like the extra weight on there. Still debating replacing the UBR stock, love it, but it is pretty hefty. The bolt catch lever goes a long way towards my goal of functioning all controls without changing my grip. It is not glued, it is tig welded to the bolt catch and reheat treated afterwards. The green is just an epoxy in there for looks from the company that produces the lever (Phase 5 Tactical) I assure you my booger hook is nowhere near the trigger when using the lever. It is no different than having your trigger finger at rest on the reciever, or working the mag release. Pics will explain better. Trigger finger at ready rest. 
Working the mag release. 
Releasing the bolt. 
Note that all three actions are a far cry from the booger hook on the bang switch. 
And thanks for the props on the pics, I try to doccument stuff in the hopes that it will help others, still working on the quality with my cheap camera. |
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Posted: 3/20/2012 7:37:40 PM
[Last Edit: 3/20/2012 7:41:46 PM by scudzuki]
I've been lurking for a while trying to become educated. First post here.
I applied the setscrew mod to my Windham Weaponry HBC. I used this page trigger mod as my guide. I was a little surprised to find my lower threaded 1/4-28 given that the author is pretty emphatic that it's usually 1/4-20 and WWI claims their ARs are milspec. In reading more of the comments on this thread it would appear that 1/4-28 is more common, not that functionally there is really a difference (other than interchangeability). Since I was a toolmaker in a past life I already had NF and NC taps on hand. The setscrew was a diffferent story. The local HD had no NF (1/4" or otherwise) hardware in stock, let alone a setscrew. I was able to find one odd 1/4-28 capscrew mistakenly dropped in a 1/4-20 bin, so I made my own slotted set screw like others have done. Polished the sear faces with first an india oilstone (what toolmakers call a slipstone) followed up by some mother's mag polish. The hammer needed very little work as the sear face was ground already. Left the spring and hammer mass alone... been shooting a lot of Wolf ammo so I don't want to risk light strikes. I ended up not tapping the hole the rest of the way... there was maybe 1 unfinished thread and it worked out nearly perfectly, the setscrew got tight in the threads at the correct depth, although I did add a bit of blue loctite before I was done. Did not have to grind the trigger to clear the safety, either. I can return it to OEM condition in 1 minute. Trigger travel reduced to 1/3 of the original travel and less gritty. Definitely worth the time. Great resource here guys. Joe |
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Posted: 3/23/2012 7:36:52 PM
Originally Posted By kwrangln: Since arf keeps archiving threads and the search sucks, I'll throw up some pics again.. 1. Tap the grip screw hole all the way through. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar47.jpg http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar54.jpg 2. Take your run of the mill LPK hammer and cut the crap out of it to lighten it up. Touch it up with a spray of paint when you're done. An object at rest stays at rest until acted upon. A heavy hammer takes more force to accelerate than a light hammer. Since I use light springs, the light hammer allows them to accelerate it to full travle speed alleviating light strikes. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar26.jpg http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar27.jpg 3. Add in some light weight springs, they are cheap and work great. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar31.jpg 4. Clean up the machining marks on the sear surface. These are what gives you that gravel road trigger pull. Before. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar28.jpg After. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar29.jpg My tool of choice is a small ceramic knife sharpening stone. Very fine cut and a nice flat surface. You don't need to take much off, and be careful to keep the sear flat on the stone, you don't want to change any angles. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar30.jpg 5. Put it all together. FIrst you'll need a set screw and some blue locktite. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar48.jpg Run that puppy up the grip screw hole untill it contacts the bottom of the trigger. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar49.jpg Hold the trigger to the rear and cock the hammer so that it is caught by the disconnector. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar51.jpg Then let go of the trigger and back out the set screw until the hammer falls from the disconnector to the sear. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/new%20ar%20build/newar52.jpg Function check and adjust as necessary. You may have interference issues with the safety, if so then use a round file to make a groove in the back upper surface of the trigger so the safety clears. Once everything is good, set it aside and let the locktite set up. 6. Go to the range and see just how good the trigger feels now, you'll be amazed. Could someone post some pics of where you would need to file if you have issue with the safety? |
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Posted: 4/7/2012 8:54:31 PM
OK, done the "trigger job" on my ar. I bought the spring kit from jp for a 4-4.5# pull and cut the hammer as the pics showed. Now my ar won't fire. The firing pin hits the primer but not hard enough to ignite it. What did I do? Using pmc rounds.
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Posted: 4/7/2012 9:05:51 PM
Try replacing your old springs and see if the problem persists. If it does then you will need to replace your hammer. The earlier posts explain why your situation is possible.
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Posted: 4/9/2012 5:30:15 AM
[Last Edit: 4/10/2012 11:15:38 PM by Laust]
Originally Posted By kwrangln:
Originally Posted By sigbangin:
kwrangin, this question is directed at you, but at everyone essentially. Why are you lightening triggers when you can strengthen your hands and fingers for free? Also, Why make your hammer a few grams lighter by cutting it down (I know, mass in motion yada yada), and then you add heavy stuff to your gun; such as the extra mag well hanging off the port side and that rediculous L shaped thing that appears to be welded with green glue to the bolt catch. Thank You. BTW , very good pictures on the 1st page, kwrangin No problem, I can explain. It seems you are missing the point of the mods. Lightening a trigger is not because of the effort it takes to pull it, it so that the pull is smooth and crisp. Talk to some bullseye shooters who run sub 1 lb trigger pulls in the name of accuracy. I've worked metal fabrication and mechanic type work since I was a kid, hands are plenty strong. Lightening the hammer is not to save weight, it is strictly a mass motion issue to make up for the lighter springs and provide reliable ignition with hard primers. As for my setup, i'm primarily a pistol shooter, and as such I'm used to being able to manipulate all the controls on the weapon without changing my firing hand grip. I've strove to make my AR the same way, the only thing the support hand has to do is rack the charging handle, much like a pistol where all it does is rack the slide. The Redi-mag was removed a long time ago, decided I didn't like the extra weight on there. Still debating replacing the UBR stock, love it, but it is pretty hefty. The bolt catch lever goes a long way towards my goal of functioning all controls without changing my grip. It is not glued, it is tig welded to the bolt catch and reheat treated afterwards. The green is just an epoxy in there for looks from the company that produces the lever (Phase 5 Tactical) I assure you my booger hook is nowhere near the trigger when using the lever. It is no different than having your trigger finger at rest on the reciever, or working the mag release. Pics will explain better. Trigger finger at ready rest. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/04.jpg Working the mag release. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/03-1.jpg Releasing the bolt. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/02-1.jpg Note that all three actions are a far cry from the booger hook on the bang switch. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/01.jpg And thanks for the props on the pics, I try to doccument stuff in the hopes that it will help others, still working on the quality with my cheap camera. kwrangln,I did some of your mods and my system is mutch mutch smoother , Ill be gettin a set screw this afternoon.What I would like to ask you is.The little symbol on your BCM upper,next to the white BCM. Do you know the significance of these? Mine is hammer forge,lite weight and has a square, Do you know what they mean? OK, BCM told me.Alls well. |
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Posted: 4/15/2012 4:39:46 PM
I am under the impression that the case hardened trigger sear and hammer sear are hardened to a depth of between 1mm and 1.5 mm. That is roughly between 1 and 1.5 credit cards thick.
I hear a lot of people say NEVER polish the above mentioned surfaces because you will remove the case hardening and go cyclic. Polishing the factory tool marks and grinding a credit card worth of material seems like its a fairly wide margin of error. Am I missing something here? |
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Posted: 4/15/2012 5:00:35 PM
Originally Posted By Chames:
I am under the impression that the case hardened trigger sear and hammer sear are hardened to a depth of between 1mm and 1.5 mm. That is roughly between 1 and 1.5 credit cards thick. I hear a lot of people say NEVER polish the above mentioned surfaces because you will remove the case hardening and go cyclic. Polishing the factory tool marks and grinding a credit card worth of material seems like its a fairly wide margin of error. Am I missing something here? Read through the first five pages that totally explain the mod. No one is grinding off a credit card worth of material. |
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Posted: 4/15/2012 6:40:26 PM
I read through the whole thread. I was not aware it was devoted entirely to one mod.
Perhaps I should have been more specific. It seems that you have to be hacking quite a bit of material to ruin a FCG. Does that sound right? I polished my sear surfaces today with a ceramic Spiderco file. I made no adjustments to travel or weight. I just wanted to get the grit out. I am very pleased with the results, but have not live fired it yet. I only just barely removed all the tool marks but the parts are mirror smooth and feel much better in the pull. I read the mod link and it said that any buffing or polishing will cause damage, which I find hard to believe. In essence, for that to happen only the tool marks that I removed would have had to be hardened. A lot of other people have posted that "professionals" unsuccessfully polish these surfaces quite often. Sounds silly. You would have a much smaller part when you were finished and would probably start to get nervous about the parts fitting together correcly. |
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Posted: 4/28/2012 10:44:50 AM
I believe this question was posed already, but was never really answered.
I backed off the setscrew 'til the hammer fell from the disco and cleared the safety, but when I re-cock the hammer, it will still make contact with the disco even though I am not holding the trigger down. My first thought was that it could cause excessive wear on the disco/rear sear surfaces, but then it occurred to me that I will be capturing the trigger for a short reset (nearly) every time the rifle is fired. So is this a non-issue? |
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Posted: 5/8/2012 12:28:42 AM
Originally Posted By kaos:
I sent Bill Springfield a few hammer and trigger sets (keep them paired, with springs) and got back some nice stuff for a few builds I did. I haven't used him for a bit, but I'm still happy with the work. http://www.triggerwork.net/ar15s.html +1 Sent it to Bill tell him what you use the rifle for and you will be pleased. Reasonable pricing as well. |
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Posted: 5/8/2012 11:07:48 AM
Originally Posted By sw222:
Originally Posted By kaos:
I sent Bill Springfield a few hammer and trigger sets (keep them paired, with springs) and got back some nice stuff for a few builds I did. I haven't used him for a bit, but I'm still happy with the work. http://www.triggerwork.net/ar15s.html +1 Sent it to Bill tell him what you use the rifle for and you will be pleased. Reasonable pricing as well. There have been more than a few stories of issues with his work, and it kinda goes against the whole "DIY" theme of this thread. |
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hero2three
Member
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2008 AR, USA
Posts: 618 Feedback: 100% (3) Link To This Post |
Posted: 5/11/2012 3:31:44 PM
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 4:33:25 PM by hero2three]
I started this mod today. My tap is about a 1/8 inch short of making it all the way through. The set screw is flush with the receiver. I will run out tonight and pick up a longer one. Smoothed the sear, hacked the hammer and I have JP springs installed. Hopefully I can find a longer tap tonight and be able to finish.
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hero2three
Member
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2008 AR, USA
Posts: 619 Feedback: 100% (3) Link To This Post |
Posted: 5/11/2012 10:12:15 PM
Finished tapping the hole. After a few adjustments this thing rocks. My lower isnt 100% finished yet, as I still have to get a set screw for the rear takedown pin mod. Gonna try to finish up in the morning and head to the range to function test. Thanks for the tutorial.
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SWE
