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MustangGreg66
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Posted: 4/28/2010 10:40:47 PM
So I've been shooting for a while and think I know a few things about barrels, but I know that's dangerous. I'm trying to look into what's available as far as a barrel for an AR build and what's really worth the money. I'm looking for a very accurate barrel, spending a little more for that extra 1/2" smaller group would be worth it to me, but I also don't want it to wear out really quickly, which is why now I'm looking into barrel treatments. I'm looking for a sub MOA barrel, preferably 1/2 MOA, that will last.

correct me if I'm wrong anywhere here...
I understand there are basically two barrel steels, Chrome Moly and Stainless Steel. Both can be machined to match tolerances, but stainless is more corrosion resistant. Both untreated wear at about the same rate?

Barrels can be Chrome Lined in order to prolong barrel life, but they won't be as accurate as a non-lined barrel.

Chrome Moly barrels can be nitride (titanium nitride) coated to increase barrel steel hardness and barrel life.

I guess my question is, are there any studies/experiments on how many more rounds a nitride coated barrel will last? Are there other coatings that can be applied to the barrel that will prolong the life without effecting accuracy?
webtaz99
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Posted: 4/29/2010 12:45:47 AM
If accuracy is your #1 goal, forget chrome lining.

Gotama
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Posted: 4/29/2010 3:04:02 AM
[Last Edit: 4/29/2010 3:04:50 AM by Gotama]
Heard m pro 7 and weapons guard is a good combo
glock24
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Posted: 4/29/2010 6:00:42 AM
MustangGreg66
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Posted: 5/2/2010 10:50:41 PM
Cool, that link has tons of info.

Does anyone offer a nitrided barrel for sale at a decent price?
Russ4777
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Posted: 5/2/2010 11:40:33 PM
[Last Edit: 5/2/2010 11:48:48 PM by Russ4777]
Originally Posted By MustangGreg66:

Blah, blah, blah........

"Chrome Moly barrels can be nitride (titanium nitride) coated to increase barrel steel hardness and barrel life."



There is a big difference between the nitride treatment of carbon steel and an applied coating of titanium nitride.

Nitriding involves heating the part to a specified temperature then exposing the part to ammonia vapors for a prescribed period of time. This makes the part very hard and somewhat corrosion resistant.

Titanium nitride is an applied coating with a gold color. This process is not used on gun barrels. DPMS sells bolt carriers and bolts coated with this stuff.


1st Cav Div, B 5/7
Vietnam/Cambodia
1970
MustangGreg66
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Posted: 5/19/2010 4:01:23 PM
Ah thanks for the clarification there. So are there any barrel makers that Nitride treat their barrels and sell to the public?
kabob
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Posted: 5/20/2010 8:29:29 AM
I am thinking DSA nitride treas there barrels. Melonite is something to consider as well
MustangGreg66
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Posted: 5/20/2010 2:47:37 PM
So what's the diffrence between Nitride and Melonite for the barrel treatment?

I read the link that was posted from sniper's hide and I guess that was on Melonite... I guess the nitriding I'm refering to is the "Salt-Bath Nitriding"?

I've done some more research into what profile barrels I'd like and I think I'm going to build a 16" Mid-length for a friend and an 18" Mid-length for myself, possibly a 20-24" varmint rifle as well, so I've heard that getting them coated by the batch is the way to go, price each goes down when you throw more into the batch.

For the 16" I'd probably be fine going with a chrome lined barrel, but the 18 and 20-24" varmint barrels I'd like the most accuracy from, but I want them to last, so that's why I'm considering these other options. Can you use these treatments on a SS barrel? or does it have to be chrome moly steel?
MustangGreg66
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Posted: 5/28/2010 7:15:35 PM
For anyone who was looking at this thead. I just found Superior Barrels. They have a proprietary hard blueing process that's looking pretty cool. Along with a bunch of torture testing. At the price point they're offering it really seems like a good way to go.

http://www.superiorbarrels.com/Barrel%20Testing/Barrel%20Testing.htm
mortismaker
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Posted: 5/28/2010 8:32:24 PM
There is a thread here too:
Click me.
helotaxi
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Posted: 5/28/2010 8:58:12 PM
How many rounds you plan to put through the rifle? Realize that any treating is going to change the dimensions of the bore and that nice hand lapped bore that you paid all that money for is no more. Also think about what you consider worn out. Worn out for a match benchrest barrel that shot in the teens is one thing, your groups opening up to 1" is a totally different thing and the round count required to get there is very different for each. There are also different grades of stainless that have different wear properties (and prices).
MustangGreg66
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Posted: 5/29/2010 11:59:50 PM
That's a pretty good thread mortismaker. Actually that answered a lot of my questions about these diffrent processes and hard blue vs melonite vs nitride... I wish they'd all stop trying to reinvent the same thing and just make it simpler for people to understand.

Those DSA barrels that say they are "Nitride Treated" are super cheap. Anyone try any of them?

helotaxi - I'm building, or planning to build a few diffrent uppers for specific purposes, but I guess the first purpose I'm going to tackle would be for 3-gun competition and would probably serve double duty for carbine type courses or tactical matches that a local range has about every other month. A lot of the serious shooters use uppers by JP, which is a SS 20" barrel, which would lose it's best accuracy after maybe 2-3000 rounds. It'd probably be servicable in that type of shooting for much longer, depending on the size and longest range of the targets, but that still means I'd probably be replacing the barrel in a couple of years. I'd love to be able to find a good barrel, buy once and have it last.

I guess most of this is stemming from the fact that the first rifle I bought was a Remington 700 VS (Varmint Synthetic) .223. I shot factory ammo (black hills) and some really hot reloads varmint hunting over several years and after only about 3000 rounds groups have gone from 1/2" at 100 yards to a little over 1" at 100 yards. Now that wouldn't be bad if I were shooting prarie dogs, but instead I'm hunting much smaller ground squirrels. I'd like to get a varmint barrel to shoot squirrels with as well that would last longer. In hind sight I probably could have loaded a little more conservativly and waited longer for my barrel to cool between shots, maybe the barrel would have lasted longer.
mdillon
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Posted: 5/30/2010 4:22:51 PM
I have one of the DSA nitride m4 slye barrels. So far I have only shot it out to 50 yards and it was dead on. I thought it was a little more acurate than my bushy m4 at that range but it could have been difference in optics or ammo. I wish I would have had more time to play with it.