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BillyDoubleU
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Posted: 12/15/2009 7:53:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/15/2009 7:57:16 PM EST by BillyDoubleU]
OK, I did a search but it didn't really answer my question.

Can I buy a Select Fire Lower? It is obviously made after 1986, so do I have to have a class 3 or can I buy it build it and pay the stamp, after my background check of course? How does the MG ban effect that? I was looking into picking up a Spike's Jolly Roger select fire lower. Then a friend of mine told me that I could not due to the '86 ban. His daddy bought him a Colt M4 for 10g's quite a few years ago, had to do the background check and all. Does it matter when the lower was made for this or are all these lowers that are being machined by companies like Spike's go to LE/dealers/class 3 only?

Edit: or are these lowers with the safe/semi/auto made with the propose of dropping in a RDIAS?
The 2nd Amendment is not about rights. It is about CAPABILITY. It is about ensuring the capability to respond to violence, and oppression. Not with 1 round, or 10, but with the full force of indignant violence deserved at a breach of our peace.


AdrianUSP9
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Posted: 12/15/2009 8:01:47 PM EST
The marks on a lower receiver, or the fact that it has the extra material removed from the inside of the lower to fit a disconnect have nothing to do with the gun being legal or illegal. Only the use of "machine gun" parts (or a DIAS) make it a machine gun. If your lower says "auto" but it has no MG parts in it - you're GTG.
sleepercaprice1
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Posted: 12/16/2009 12:31:08 AM EST
Being marked safe/semi/auto and being a true select fire lower are 2 different things. If the receiver is marked for 3 selector positions, but doesn't have the hole drilled for an auto sear it's OK. If the receiver has the sear hole, it's a machine gun and subject to class 3 regulation.

I'm not really up on class 3 law, but I didn't think any new machine guns could be manufactured since 1986(?) unless they were for military or law enforcement.
VarmitSniper
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Posted: 12/16/2009 1:50:50 AM EST
You cannot purchase a Machine Gun or a lower manufactured with the sear hole. You cannot do a form for it and pay the money.

Some companies have been putting the selector markings on the receivers but they are not Machine Guns.

Even if you had an FFL with the SOT there are a few hoops you have to jump through to receive a post 86 weapon.

You may find yourself one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass...
ArmedFerret
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Posted: 12/16/2009 6:51:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By VarmitSniper:
You cannot purchase a Machine Gun or a lower manufactured with the sear hole if such item was manufactured after the cutoff in 1986. You cannot do a form for it and pay the money.

Some companies have been putting the selector markings on the receivers but they are not Machine Guns.

Even if you had an FFL with the SOT there are a few hoops you have to jump through to receive a post 86 weapon.



CONKLE73
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Posted: 12/16/2009 9:04:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/16/2009 11:49:47 AM EST by CONKLE73]
The safe – fire – auto engraving is just engraving… buy all you want… it doesn’t make the lower “select fire”
You can not manufacture a machinegun unless you are a class-2 SOT and then only as a “dealer sample”…
The only machineguns that can be transferred to non-SOT’s are those registered prior to May 1986 and they are running $12,000 - $25,000 and up
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)
BillyDoubleU
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Posted: 12/16/2009 12:11:17 PM EST
Ok so the markings are just for show, that's not as fun. I never asked nor saw if it was actually drilled for true select fire. Well, there goes that idea. Thanks for the info guys.
The 2nd Amendment is not about rights. It is about CAPABILITY. It is about ensuring the capability to respond to violence, and oppression. Not with 1 round, or 10, but with the full force of indignant violence deserved at a breach of our peace.


GHPorter
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Posted: 12/16/2009 2:12:09 PM EST
The only "true select fire" AR you're going to find is one that was built and registered before the '86 ban, and will cost you somewhere around $10k+. Just getting a "class 3" license would make you a dealer in Title II firearms, but you still wouldn't be able to buy any post ban (often less expensive) toys without some sort of legitimate request from a legitimate customer (like a police department). Being a dealer is not a valid, or even effective way to save money on guns, and unless you do quite a lot of business (like it's a real full time job), you're not going to make enough money for it to be worth your time if all you want is cheaper guns. (Yes I do have experience as a Title I dealer.)
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Ridge_Runner_5
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Posted: 12/16/2009 6:01:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Ok so the markings are just for show, that's not as fun. I never asked nor saw if it was actually drilled for true select fire. Well, there goes that idea. Thanks for the info guys.

Spikes doesnt make any with the sear hole drilled. But I do believe they are cut in such a way you could drop in a RDIAS if you wanted to...
If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people?
BillyDoubleU
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Posted: 12/16/2009 7:59:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Ok so the markings are just for show, that's not as fun. I never asked nor saw if it was actually drilled for true select fire. Well, there goes that idea. Thanks for the info guys.

Spikes doesnt make any with the sear hole drilled. But I do believe they are cut in such a way you could drop in a RDIAS if you wanted to...


Yeah I think most of them are, I got 3 lowers from them now. I saw the Jolly Rogers and other models that had the markings, I assumed them to be actual MG lowers but I didn't see any restriction around them. That is why I brought this up, I figured they were cheap and had the markings. Well I certainly don't have the cash to drop on a true MG!

How does the RDIAS work, should I pursue a less expensive way around this?

The 2nd Amendment is not about rights. It is about CAPABILITY. It is about ensuring the capability to respond to violence, and oppression. Not with 1 round, or 10, but with the full force of indignant violence deserved at a breach of our peace.


iNeXile556
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Posted: 12/19/2009 4:50:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/19/2009 1:32:47 PM EST by iNeXile556]

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:


Yeah I think most of them are, I got 3 lowers from them now. I saw the Jolly Rogers and other models that had the markings, I assumed them to be actual MG lowers but I didn't see any restriction around them. That is why I brought this up, I figured they were cheap and had the markings. Well I certainly don't have the cash to drop on a true MG!

How does the RDIAS work, should I pursue a less expensive way around this?


A RDIAS is a Registered Drop In Auto Sear, it is registered as a MG (again prior to '86 cutoff) but has the advantage of being swapped between guns. If your MG lower cracks or gets mangled in some way, you can try to have it repaired, if it can't be fixed your costly MG is now a paper weight, no more fun. With a RDIAS you can simply, and legally, drop it into a new receiver and your back in the fun zone. A RDIAS will cost as much or even more than a MG. There is no cheap way. There is no legal way "around this".


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Ridge_Runner_5
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Posted: 12/19/2009 6:49:53 AM EST
Basically, if you are looking to convert your AR-15 to full auto, expect to drop 7gs or more easily...
If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people?
forever4
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Posted: 12/19/2009 6:57:48 AM EST
If you really just have to have a full auto weapon in your hand....join the military. They will buy you the gun and the ammo and teach you how to use it. Been there, done that. Its out of my system.

If you don't want the above experience, save up your money, its going to cost you alot. Come to the Spring Machine Gun Shoot at Knob Creek in April and you can meet with the dealers, rent a maching gun, or just learn all about what you need to do. Three full days of nothing but automatic weapons fire!
An Army Veteran and proud of it. Long time NRA member and you should be too!