I went to Centerfire today and picked up a lower. As the previous poster said, they only have the forged ones in stock at this time. It looks good to me but I am no expert. Has anyone done a build with a forged TNW receiver yet?

Built up my 50 Beowulf on a billet TNW lower.  Pics are in the AR Variants forum.

The only problem I had was that the bolt stop pin was too big, A couple of minutes with a drill bit to clean out the finish and open the holes up a bit and it was good to go.  The pin may have been oversize, but I didn't have a spare to try.

For those who care, it sounds like Centerfire got more in stock today.  Looks like the price went up by 10 bucks. Still a steal!

they are back ordered again on uppers.  Should be good at end of week they said.

I put my TNW lower together last night using a Doublestar LPK.  This was my 3rd lower build and most difficult.  The fist issue was that the safety selector holes were just a hair too small.  I opened them up using a small dremel sanding drum.  The next problem was the grip screw.  I had to cut about a 1/4 inch off to make it work.  The last problem was the magazine catch.  The front of it binds in the receiver when the mag catch button is pushed.  I'm still working on this one.

Overall, I think the TNW lowers are a good buy.  Just be prepared for some extra work during assembly.

Also thought I'd note that the uppers have been dropped by $30. They were $99, now $69.

They said uppers are in final phase and will be in friday.  They are shipping on monday.  I went and bought an upper locally and may just cancel this order.  I was thinking of keeping it for another build, but if it is around i will do another build

Yes, I had the same problems with mine. A correctly sized drill bit took care of the safety hole. I put a lock washer under the head of the grip screw, and the safety did bind and took some working back and forth, some lube and a very careful adjustment to get it right.

For $40 more I can get a RRA that is perfect. I think I will stick to "brand name" lowers. I did want one billet one to play with so I have no regrets.

i just received my stripped billet upper today. they included a cleaning kit for an AMD 64 i think for some reason?

anyway, a couple issues i have with the upper.

# 1
the holes for the ejection port cover pin are too small. i had to drill out the front one with a 1/8" drill bit and take some emery cloth to the pin itself along with greasing it up to get it through the front one, the rear seemed to be a little better. but after drilling and giving the pin some gentle encouragement with a rubber mallet it went it. but i hope i don't ever have to take it out cause i don't think it's going anywhere.

# 2
the rail on top of the receiver is higher than the rail on my YHM FF handguards. it not much, but its enough that it will make tightening the Jam Nut while keeping it straight a pain in the ass. ( i'm still waiting on my barrel, but just mocking it up showed me) i'll have to rig something up with some scope rings, tape, and dowel rod i guess.

other than those things, the receiver itself is very nice. the finish is smooth. i was worried about it being gritty because the pictures made it look that way.
i'm probably going to be picking up a matching lower soon, but hopefully i won't need to do any home milling on it. just have to wait and see.

I don't have pics yet but my upper is beautiful, smooth, black, a work of art. The lower's anodizing looks gray, dull, lifeless. But I've got the lower assembled with a Double Star kit and have been using it. Everything went together perfectly except I had to find a shorter screw for the grip. Not a problem in my shop or garage.

Would I buy another? Probably (depending on price) but it'd be nice if the lower matched the upper then it'd really be a gorgeous unit. Actually the rough looking lower looks like my two RRA lowers. Last I looked the uppers were selling very cheap. Likely pick another upper at those prices.

I wonder if the difference can be explained by different aluminum alloys used or maybe a different batch of anodizing?

No problems with the safety selector with mine. Thread is shallow for the grip screw though, and the mag catch is tight but no biggie.

You really don't have knowledge of machining do you? EDM is the most expensive way to do a magwell which is why few manufacturers use it.





 

Show me a major manufacturer who doesn't.

The big boys all use CNC and broach cutting for their magwells. EDM is too costly as it takes about 20-25 minutes per lower to cut. Broaching takes a few seconds. Smaller boutique makers use EDM because is is a good selling point and they don't have the quantity requirements of the big players.
Magwells are not that critical a dimension (.898 inches +/- .015 as per specs) to require EDM cutting. You have broached rifling in the barrel which is much more critical.
As per your request:
LMT, MMS, LAR, CMT, Superior, Aero  all broach cut their magwells. I'd bet that covers 90% or more of all the lowers made.









ETA: all the forged lowers, billet are a different story.
 

I received a matched set back in November for a build, and put it away until my barrel came in.  A couple of weeks ago, the barrel made it's appearance so I pulled the receivers out to get to work on building the gun.  The color of the upper seemed a bit off, so I applied some oil and was rewarded with a purple hue that reminded me of some of the Bushmaster lowers from several years ago.  Unacceptable.

I contacted Centerfire to exchange the upper for one that would match the lower (or at least just be black), and received it last night.  The color is perfect on this one, but the holes for the dust cover are undersized.  Not so much that the pin wouldn't fit, but tight none the less.  Once installed, the dust cover is extremely difficult to close.  It appears as though some slight file work where the detent engages the receiver will overcome this issue, so still not a shot stopper.  I move to the final piece before the barrel ––- the forward assist ––- and find that the hole drilled for the retaining pin must be out of spec.  The roll pin fits in just fine, but the hole is too far inbound to engage the forward assist.  ARRRRRRRGH!  No joy for the build, and no way that I can think of to fix it at home.

I have an email in to TNW regarding this.  We'll see what develops.  Oh well, at least the weather is crappy enough to keep me off the range anyway......


Saleen

Built my upper a couple weeks ago, same problem with the dust cover pin, had to drill out and it is tight, will never come out on its own!  Forward asst was fine works well, only other problem was install on the bolt assem. had to oil the hell out of it, worked it about two hundred times to get it loosened up. Charging handle loss some finish.
waiting on barrel will post build when finished.

I spoke with TNW, and they are aware of the problems this last batch had.  I'm not sure what the cause of it is, but according to Mark, they are now checking 100% of them individually before shipping.  He asked me to try my bolt carrier group and see if it was tight, sure enough, it was though I think it would wear in for a very good fit shortly.  

I sent it back in to them and should receive the replacement next week.  Hopefully, I'll clear this last hurtle soon enough and get this rifle to the range to make some noise!


Saleen

I'm planning on building my first AR, should i try with this lower, and upper, or spring the extra 50 bucks for a stag or spikes lower. What exactly are m4 rails that i wont be able to install on this upper. sorry for the dumb question's but i'm green here. Also one more question, being that i'm green, should i just go get the dpms sportical at the gun shop for $699. Thanks

I can't comment on the TNW parts as I haven't ordered them yet (I did get my FFL to send his stuff to Centerfire, at least), but definately build it yourself. You'll eventually need the special tools and they aren't that expensive, and you'll know more about your gun if you build it yourself.



 

I would say no.  Too many corners cut for too little savings at that price.

The M4 "rails" you mention don't make sense.  Are you referring to M4 "feed ramps"?  You can actually install a barrel with the M4 ramps on the extension in one of these uppers, but you'll have to do some file work to blend them into the upper.  I've done it before, and it's no big deal really.  Early RRA guns had the same modification at the factory post-assembly (and they may still do it, I can't recall).  I do remember my first RRA uppers back in 2002 had the "home cut" M4 ramp look and worked just fine.

I should have my replacement upper in the next few days, and hopefully will get this project moving again.  When I do, I'll post pics.

As for the special tools to assemble, you are referring to a billet combo, right?  If so, the usual upper receiver blocks won't work, so you'll need to get barrel vice clamps.  I also use leather pads to prevent the aluminum transfer on surface finishes like Gunkote.  They will probably scrub off without any problem, but I'd rather not find out.  Aside from that, just a barrel wrench and punch set for the roll pins.  Use electrical tape to protect the finish when you install the bolt stop, and take your time.  Other "nice to have" parts are out there, but that's all the "specialized" tools you really need.

Saleen

All I meant was barrel and stock wrenches. I use an automatic centerpunch to put in all the roll pins, and it's technically possible to tighten a carbine stock castle nut with a screwdriver, but a stock wrench makes it much easier.



 

I'm no expert ,but the complete upper I got from TNW has the best fit and feel I've seen. No M4 cuts in the upper but it eats everything I feed it with out a hiccup. The piston system sort of reminds me of a G43. As soon as I get the pennies together , the wife gets one. It's the only way I can keep her from high grading mine after she shot it.

TNW now does complete upper with piston system?

I called today and the rep said the forged ones and the billet ones were from TNW. I picked up an Upper and Lower billet. If it's nice i might have it be my post sample lower.

I assembled my lower with a bartered LPK and a used A2 stock, everything fit great. I ordered the nitride coated DS Arms Mid-length fluted upper with BCG and CH for a total cost of 545.00. I'm waiting on delivery.............impatiently!

you can add LRB and Doublestar to your list. their lowers are made by JV Precision in Seymour, CT.

as for my billet lower the only problem i had was my stag buffer tube didnt time right with the buffer retainer. it would either just catch it or thread against the retainer and not make it all the way around. i thought maybe just catching it would be ok but after the first shot at the range i was getting light primer strikes. i opened it up and my buffer retainer and spring were lost forever.

Here, I’ll showboat around a few pics of my CenterFire Systems TNW AR project…  I finished it about 2-3 months ago… I’m very pleased how it came together… The only complaint was w/ my Rock River LPK, which despite all the hype, was not nearly as nice as the CMMG LPKs’ I used in the past, but that has no bearing on the quality of the lower receiver…

$69 for the upper and $69 for the lower, I think that it was very good value…

(Oh, making a maple stock for an AR is heck of a lot of work I’ll tell ya!)

Lower Receiver – TNW ~~ On Sale for $69-
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ARLOWER-MACH.aspx

Upper Reciever – TNW ~~ $69-
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/arup-a3stripped.aspx

Bolt Carrier –– Daniel Defense (I’ve milled around an inch off the inside 'lip' of the tail end of the bolt carrier to permanently comvert it from an M16's layout to an AR15's) ~~ $135-
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XDD9300&groupid=55

Grip –– Magpul MOE ~~ $19.99
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XMAG415DKEAR&groupid=58

Barrel – DPMS ~~ On sale $145-
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=117068

Free Float Hand Guard – DPMS ~~ $52- (If you broil a black anodized surface finish at 600 degrees for an hour or more it turns a gold/copper color…)
http://www.pkfirearms.com

LPK – Rock River Standard Two Stage Trigger (Gun Broker – Grand Total –– $62-)
Butt Stock – Home Depot ~~ $25ish
Recoil Pad – Herters (Gun Broker – Grand Total ~~ $16)

And then add in another $100 –– $150 for all the other bits and pieces

So, I’ve around $700ish in rifle itself and then in the scope w/ its mount and it’s like $785ish…
The ammo it likes the best is Fiocchi 40gr and 50gr .223 and it does very well w/ the standard M193 stuff too!

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad149/762CETME/2.jpg
http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad149/762CETME/1.jpghttp://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad149/762CETME/3.jpg

Different look for a AR...but I like it. Very nice work.  

I got the replacement and assembled the rifle.  Everything works, but the upper to lower fit had to be tightened up with an accuwedge.  No big deal as I generally use these anyway, but they usually require a bunch of trimming to even fit.  This one wound up with a pad almost 3x as thick as forged lowers usually take.  Also, the hole for the rear pin (for the upper) was not radiused at all, making it nearly impossible to latch with the accuwedge in place because the holes had to be exact instead of just close.  This was easily remedied with a case neck chamfer tool, and it works fine now.  Not a real problem, but more of a problem than I've ever had from any other upper.

The finished product, however, is a nice even flat black.  The upper and lower are rock solid, and it shoots like a dream.  I'll get pics posted as soon as I can get ahold of my schedule enough to take some good pics.


Saleen

So did you just put it in the oven?

Yeap, broiled its free float tube in the oven at around 600+ degrees for a little over an hour to a golden brown.  

Mmmmm, baked AR!   :-b...  

If you wish to read it, last weekend I posted a somewhat long winded description of the process of what happens to most black anodizing when subject to relatively intense   heat ...  

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=468660&page=4

I’ve been kidded by friends at my gun club that I’ve been bitten hard by “Black Rifle Disease,” but to date I’ve never actually build one that has been completely black…    

I forgot to add that the 1913 rail seems to be a bit out of spec (oversized).  The A.R.M.S. levers which close correctly on every other upper that I have put up some resistance on this upper, and they require a flathead screwdriver used as a lever to open them up.

Yet ANOTHER reason to go with LaRue!


Saleen

Oh I understand, for the most part, your criticisms of TNW’s uppers and lowers as to their out-of-spec peculiarities… but I look at it this way; they are very unique in light of other AR components on the market, they’re very affordable and call me a masochist, but working-out form, fit, and function foibles is what makes firearm building a fun pastime.  For $69-$79 bucks a pop I look at components like this as fun design challenges and an opportunity to play w/ all my tools in my basement shop and to escape my wife and kids for couple of hours (that's not to say that I don't love them )… that being said, the only component that I’m apprehensive about going w/ a ‘lesser known or second run manufacture’ are barrels because they are soooooooooo fundamental to how well the gun ultimately will perform and they are beyond my capability to correct if they are screwed-up.  After that, I’ll steer towards that weirdo, value priced, out of spec stuff all the time but its great fodder for basement shop play time…

...After reading your posts, I think that in spirit that you generally agree that the voyage of building one of these things is many times as fun as its destination…

I promised to review the TNW lower, so here it goes. My DPMS LPK dropped right in and everything functions perfectly. I saved my lunch money until I could afford a upper, after looking at everything on the market, I decided on a DS arms ZM4 mid length fluted barrel, nitride treated upper. Total cost of this build was 545.00 + 60 bucks for the quad rail. the fit between the DS Arms upper and the TNW lower is snug, I had to lightly slap the upper to get the pin in. It's a great solid fit. I was all set to shoot it yesterday, but a close friend called and needed to "borrow my 2009 f-250" to move.....a very polite way of asking me to help him move...Damn! but, that is what friends are for, he'd jump to help me too. Shooting will wait till next weekend. How do I upload a picture from my computer?

Oh I understand, for the most part, your criticisms of TNW’s uppers and lowers as to their out-of-spec peculiarities… but I look at it this way; they are very unique in light of other AR components on the market, they’re very affordable and call me a masochist, but working-out form, fit, and function foibles is what makes firearm building a fun pastime. For $69-$79 bucks a pop I look at components like this as fun design challenges and an opportunity to play w/ all my tools in my basement shop and to escape my wife and kids for couple of hours (that's not to say that I don't love them )… that being said, the only component that I’m apprehensive about going w/ a ‘lesser known or second run manufacture’ are barrels because they are soooooooooo fundamental to how well the gun ultimately will perform and they are beyond my capability to correct if they are screwed-up. After that, I’ll steer towards that weirdo, value priced, out of spec stuff all the time but its great fodder for basement shop play time…

...After reading your posts, I think that in spirit that you generally agree that the voyage of building one of these things is many times as fun as its destination…

I couldn't figure out how to post a picture here, but it worked great in Gunco's forum, here's the link to my blackberry's attempt at being a camera. http://www.gunco.net/forums/f262/79-99-billet-lower-50838/index4.html?=#post577587http://www.gunco.net/forums/f262/79-99-billet-lower-50838/index4.html?=#post577587

…The process for posting pics is a little (ok quite) cumbersome but here it is…  

Establish and upload them to a http://photobucket.com/ account.  

Then select photobucket’s “Share this image” tab and then insert the photo’s photobucket.com “Direct link for layout pages” hyperlink for that photo via AR15.com's message text-editor ‘insert photo icon’ while you’re writing your post to AR15.com…  

(It took me three or four tries before I finally figured it out… )

I'll agree that some tweaking can be enjoyable, but the TNWs are more than I think I'll shoot for in the future.  The loose fit extends to some side to side play which isn't as easily corrected.  One upper would not accept a forward assist because the hole was drilled where the roll pin wouldn't engage the plunger, and the hinge holes for the dust cover on the second receiver were too tight.  The first upper was machined correctly, but it was off-color by quite a bit.

TNW did make it right, and yes it is impossible to find another billet upper / lower combination anywhere near this price, but until they are a bit more consistant I think I'll look elsewhere.  True, these are all likely "growing pains", but some of the issues aren't easy do-it-yourselfer fixes, and delays caused by replacements are frustrating, not recreational.  The end product is enjoyable none-the-less


Saleen

Has anyone gotten a TNW lower lately?  I have been waiting from Centerfire since January and TNW told me they have no ETA on when they're getting product to them.

Much easier to just copy/paste the "IMG Code," the fourth and final link (two down from the "Direct Link") that looks exactly like this:

[IMG}http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/wise_jake/demotivator_aggression.jpg[/IMG]

Best thing is, you can just plop it in the post window regardless of whether you're using the [original] plain-text post window, or the newer WYSIWYG editor.
ETA: Well shit; now it appears that the code box in the WYSIWYG editor isn't working properly...
ETA2: Changed the latter half of the first tag from a square bracket to the bracket you get when you press [Shift] + the square bracket.  Looks close enough.
[img]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_abused.gif[/img]