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 SheepDog1979
Come N' Get Em...
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Joined: Feb 2010  MN, USA
 Posts: 227 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/24/2011 9:46:41 PM
Originally Posted By INTrooper4255:
Originally Posted By SheepDog1979:
Originally Posted By INTrooper4255:
Originally Posted By SheepDog1979:
Originally Posted By WayneG:
Originally Posted By SheepDog1979:
Yes. MAPP torch runs at 5300 °F.
Can you use mapp gas to heat up the muzzle break enough to get a good solder? Thanks SD79 I have an issue, my crush washer that came with my BC 1.5 doesn't allow it to be timed correctly on the barrel. It touches the crush washer about a quarter turn past my desired timed position. That means that I have to either back it off an had like .010 gap between the washer and barrel/BC, or try and crank it 3/4 turn around the barrel to get it to be properly timed. I got it snug and tried to turn it some more but, decided to put a torque wrench on it while I was doing it and set the wrench to 30 ft/lbs and it barely moved before hitting my torque setting. Any suggestions as to what I could do? I am going to be silver soldering it this weekend.. Thanks SD79 You probably should use a peel washer instead. I recently isntalled a BC 1.5 on my MRP barrel and I used a peel washer insted of the supplied crush washer. Thanks for the response.. Is it possible to use both the peel washer and the crush washer? I basically need to add .010 - .015 to allow it to be timed correctly. Are the peel washers the same thickness as the crush washer? I know I can peel them down but, it either needs to be larger or I need to use two. SD79 You won't need them both, use just the peel. It just varies on how much you'll need to peel, sometimes it doesn't take much. I've done about 3 of them with peel washers and I think that it gives a much cleaner look. Can I possibly use two peel washers if needed? What do you torque you muzzle device to? |
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Posted: 6/24/2011 9:56:51 PM
Originally Posted By SheepDog1979:
Originally Posted By INTrooper4255:
Originally Posted By SheepDog1979:
Originally Posted By INTrooper4255:
Originally Posted By SheepDog1979:
Originally Posted By WayneG:
Originally Posted By SheepDog1979:
Yes. MAPP torch runs at 5300 °F.
Can you use mapp gas to heat up the muzzle break enough to get a good solder? Thanks SD79 I have an issue, my crush washer that came with my BC 1.5 doesn't allow it to be timed correctly on the barrel. It touches the crush washer about a quarter turn past my desired timed position. That means that I have to either back it off an had like .010 gap between the washer and barrel/BC, or try and crank it 3/4 turn around the barrel to get it to be properly timed. I got it snug and tried to turn it some more but, decided to put a torque wrench on it while I was doing it and set the wrench to 30 ft/lbs and it barely moved before hitting my torque setting. Any suggestions as to what I could do? I am going to be silver soldering it this weekend.. Thanks SD79 You probably should use a peel washer instead. I recently isntalled a BC 1.5 on my MRP barrel and I used a peel washer insted of the supplied crush washer. Thanks for the response.. Is it possible to use both the peel washer and the crush washer? I basically need to add .010 - .015 to allow it to be timed correctly. Are the peel washers the same thickness as the crush washer? I know I can peel them down but, it either needs to be larger or I need to use two. SD79 You won't need them both, use just the peel. It just varies on how much you'll need to peel, sometimes it doesn't take much. I've done about 3 of them with peel washers and I think that it gives a much cleaner look. Can I possibly use two peel washers if needed? What do you torque you muzzle device to? I suppose if you needed the added length you could, but there shouldn't be any need for it. You'll just need to torque the muzzle device to the manufacturers specifications. |
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SheepDog1979
Come N' Get Em...
Team Member
Joined: Feb 2010 MN, USA
Posts: 228 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/25/2011 12:00:39 PM
So, I played with the crush washer a little more today before I went and ordered a peel washer. I was able to get the crush washer to "crush" enought to get the BC 1.5 to time correctly. Thanks everyone for your input and advice! What would I do without you guys..
I am not just waiting for my heat paste to arrive and I will be soldering it together! I will be sure to take some pics in the process!  |
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Posted: 6/25/2011 12:44:11 PM
Originally Posted By 79rallysport:
There is another way to pin it on without a welder. A local gunsmith showed me this . Drill a hole through the flash hider and in to the barrel slightly. Pull the hider back off and tap the hole with threads. Reinstall the flash hider with the threaded hole lined up with the hole in the barrel. Take a extra long set screw with loctite and thread it into the hole. It should bottom out in the hole and leave the head above the surface. Now grind off the head and shape to the hider. If your careful you only need to touch up the round shiny spot. That is not legal. [/quote] Anyway.. heres a sample of that idea.. this is a std 16" barrel SAIGA 308 with a BRAKE being PINNED on it.. 
I sold that Saiga recently and the buyer DID NOT care about the 'pin' or not as he was in a NORMAL state 
This is a DPMS 556 that I did recently.. I did 'weld' over the pin and made pretty with a Dremel.. 
Both BRAKES used RED LocTite also on the screws and the actual barrel threading.. it 'THE LAW' wants to mess with you to the point of inspecting yout firearms THAT CLOSELY.. you are SCREWED from the gate.. IMHO.. |
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Posted: 7/16/2011 7:04:03 PM
Ok, so im going to build a 14.5, i would like to use a surefire comp. BCM states they had 1.83 to the barrel so itll be fine length wise. has anyone done this with a sure fire brake? and ive heard that silver solder messes up the finish. just trying to get information out of this.
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Posted: 8/21/2011 4:43:27 PM
Schuster manufacturing is AWESOME at pinning flash hiders...you have to examine it carefully to even figure out where the weld is. They either TIG or laser weld it.
http://www.schustermfg.com/ |
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angryguns
Member
Team Member
Joined: Aug 2009 GA, USA
Posts: 423 Feedback: 100% (8) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/28/2011 11:57:41 PM
[Last Edit: 8/29/2011 12:01:48 AM by angryguns]
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PursuitSS
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
Team Member
Joined: May 2006 MO, USA
Posts: 3202 Feedback: 100% (15) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/30/2011 5:15:19 AM
It does not list the temperature rating. It might not meet B.A.T.F. regs. Go with Brownells 1200 degree. |
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Posted: 8/31/2011 11:27:02 PM
I agree with you. I live in NJ, United Socialist Republic of, and we are required to install it this way. Oh, and did I mention that we cannot purchase anything that is sold as a "flash hider" or "flash suppressor" to install on our GUNS (emphasis added). Just had to felt that off of my chest. Lastly, If I lived in a "free" state, this issue would be the last of my concerns, but if he wants to install the FH that way, more power to 'em.
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Posted: 8/31/2011 11:29:30 PM
Your instruction was very useful as I always wondered how it is done without screwing up the barrel...thanks.
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BadAxxFireFighter
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Team Member
Joined: Jun 2008 CT, USA
Posts: 111 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 10/13/2011 12:13:38 PM
Any post ban gun I've seen from Stag Arms "looks" like it's just pinned, and not welded over.
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Posted: 10/19/2011 11:56:32 AM
[Last Edit: 10/19/2011 9:48:47 PM by NotAbeaR]
Just finishing up soldering my comp. looks good had a little scorch. I was able to find the solder and flux at local Airgass store.
To clean up the scorch i had i used a brass brush and some rubbing compound looks good will post pic soon. Edit : The product was Radnor Safety-Silv 56 it came with some solder and special flux for it think it was $30 and i only used about a inch of it is a 1150 degree silver solder 
Uploaded with ImageShack.us Im going to duracoat the comp cause i used a little to much solder  .. next time i will use the chalk method to keep it cleaner but it was my first one.
And Now the painted Results 
Uploaded with ImageShack.us Looks Awesome... |
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KlingtonHtr
Member
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Joined: Mar 2001 NY, USA
Posts: 373 Feedback: 100% (13) Link To This Post |
Posted: 11/11/2011 1:16:52 AM
Looks great, I will have to do the same thing when I receive my mini SASS barrel. What about just using Red Loctite, lol, such a dumb law.
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Posted: 11/30/2011 4:54:14 PM
About how long did it take you guys to get the metal to turn "blood red" as mentioned earlier in the thread?
I tried this for the first time (had the materials for almost 2 years before deciding to try it) and I went at it with a MAPP torch (benzomatic TS8000) for about 10 solid minutes and never saw a change in color. It got extremely hot as I could hear the hylocool boiling away underneath the wet rags. But I never saw a change in color like the one post mentioned. I'm soldering on a Battlecomp 1.5 if that makes any difference. But I'm letting it cool down now and will try and take it off with a wrench in 30 minutes or so. Then we'll see if it worked, or if it truly didn't get hot enough. |
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PursuitSS
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
Team Member
Joined: May 2006 MO, USA
Posts: 3315 Feedback: 100% (15) Link To This Post |
Posted: 12/1/2011 7:10:48 PM
That is why I will only use an Oxy-Acetylene torch to heat up the flash suppressor/barrel. A little over a minute and all you have to do is wait for it to cool down.
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WayneG
I just threw your stinkin' palm tree overboard!
Team Member
Joined: Sep 2004 VA, USA
 
Posts: 2582 Feedback: 100% (26) Link To This Post |
Posted: 12/1/2011 9:54:12 PM
I use my Oxy/Mapp rig, it seems to get the metal to the right temp much faster then straight Mapp.
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Posted: 12/19/2011 10:24:35 PM
Im just curious, some people in the past 8 pages have had some charring. Are these people putting the flame direct on the parts?
I have an oxy/acetylene torch at work and I should be able to heat the parts up to temp without the flame actually touching anything. Can charring occur lie this or only from direct flame contact?  |
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remixer69
Member
Team Member
Joined: Aug 2011 NJ, USA
Posts: 307 Feedback: 100% (4) Link To This Post |
Posted: 12/21/2011 2:46:56 PM
Does anyone know if the Silver Solder method is legal in NJ? I know Batf is ok but jersey might be different.....
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Posted: 2/5/2012 1:22:34 AM
Here in NJ the cops/NJSP are trained to look for a welded spot on the brake/comp. The only real way to test it is for them to take your gun and torque the brake/comp until it breaks off. IMHO if they are looking at your gun that hard this may be the least of your worries. Also I would say 80% of all the cops I know that would even see your gun would have no idea. The pin/weld method is the current method shown to NJSP by their firearms division. Same goes for the buttstock. I can make my magpul non-collapsable without pinning it via modifying the mechanism (using tools and I would need tools to reverse it). LE though, looks for a roll pin through the stock. I am not drilling my damn stock. IF they or I cannot physically collapse it, it is non-collapsible. All these methods are reversible with the right tools. NJ is crazy
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TannerB
9 > 45
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Joined: Jun 2006 TX, USA
Posts: 2728 Feedback: 100% (45) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/11/2012 6:50:34 PM
I assume nothing is different when using a stainless steel barrel?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/17/2012 10:43:42 PM
where states have their own AWB, like NY, threaded barrels are a no go. doesnt specify other thna that. so , vene if its soldered, welded or whsatever, if there are threads under the Brake, you are in violation. How can they tell, its calleed an Xray. easy and cheap to do in order to prosecute you. Dont htink they will? think again. in NY they are prosecuting for post ban mags. each one you get caught with is a CPW charge; a felony. I dont agree but thats what it is. In NY, you have to have clean barrel, no threads, pin and wled or Silver Solder. your choice. I have done both.
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TannerB
9 > 45
Team Member
Joined: Jun 2006 TX, USA
Posts: 2751 Feedback: 100% (45) Link To This Post |
Posted: 4/23/2012 10:34:55 PM
I have tried 3 times to get this to work. After an hour I'll try to turn it off and feels solid as can be. Then the next day my roommate pops it off each time.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/30/2012 3:47:33 PM
Originally Posted By huntgrouse:
where states have their own AWB, like NY, threaded barrels are a no go. doesnt specify other thna that. so , vene if its soldered, welded or whsatever, if there are threads under the Brake, you are in violation. How can they tell, its calleed an Xray. easy and cheap to do in order to prosecute you. Dont htink they will? think again. in NY they are prosecuting for post ban mags. each one you get caught with is a CPW charge; a felony. I dont agree but thats what it is. In NY, you have to have clean barrel, no threads, pin and wled or Silver Solder. your choice. I have done both. Yes, but i think the common wisdom here is that a soldered/welded brake becomes part of the barrel for all intents and purposes. |
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Posted: 4/30/2012 4:12:25 PM
Originally Posted By PursuitSS: Read the reviews:It does not list the temperature rating. It might not meet B.A.T.F. regs. Go with Brownells 1200 degree. Grobet PN 54.830 "Easy-silver" 1240°F (671°C) Meets ATF standard for
permanent attachment of muzzle devices to extend overall legal barrel
length (>1100°F
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf
- Ch 2.1.3). Used this product to affix a Vortex flash suppressor
(Midway product 711620) to Colt 14.5" M4 barrel to legally achieve a
>16" barrel length. Use liberal amounts of heat-stop paste (Midway
product 581964) to prevent heat transfer and excessive discoloration
during soldering process. Follow instructions on package and make SURE
both surfaces are cleaned with degreaser (I used acetone) to promote a
solid bond. DO NOT QUENCH! Once fully cooled, attempt to remove muzzle
device to ensure complete (and legal) bond. I doubt the ATF will accept
laziness as an excuse. Don't trade your freedom for a life in orange
jumpsuits on shoddy prep work!
Five black holes would be my rating. It was a total fail for my
application of 400 series stainless steel freshly machined and
degreased. The flux attacked the surface and blackened and scaled it
before the carrier solvent had boiled away. When the silver did melt it
formed small balls floating in the toxic mess that used to be my parts.
Classic wire and paste flux worked perfectly on the replacement parts. |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 2:30:32 AM
So, will a propane torch get hot enough to do a pin and weld? I know you guys seem to favor the SS, but I need to know if I need to get Mapp fuel for this.
Thanks! |
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