I'm sort of stuck in regards to what I need in a laser/light/illuminator. Looking for some insight as to my use and platform.

I ordered an Otal with the IR laser to be used with PVS7 and a surefire flashlight/illuminator. I think I'm gtg on that rifle as it will mainly be used for coyotes. I need to outfit my Scar17 and have a surefire with km3 head, not sure what to get for IR/visible laser. This is my 'go-to' all around rifle so I want something robust. I'll be using it for hogs, varmints, etc. I have a Flir RS32 thermal but would also like to be able to use both my PVS7 and an old Orion nv scope that I swear is every bit as good as gen2+. I love it and it's setup for 308.

Looking mainly at Steiner and considering the I2, CQBL, A3 and D2.

My primary questions have to do with power (do I need class 1 or 3), LED (good or bad) and need for illuminator with the KM3 I have now. Lastly, do I even need a flashlight given I have a helmet mounted one and I'd be wearing PVS7's anyway.

Sorry if these are bone-headed questions but I'm just dipping my toes in the pool and don't want to screw it up; this shit's expensive! thanks in advance.

Should add that I'm leaning towards the I2; found a new tan one for $700. My only concern is will my illuminator be ok with this. I think it should but would like confirmation.

You'll probably be just fine with an I2. It might not be strong enough for the older Gen Orion (what gen is it?), but if your PVS 7 is Gen 3 you'll be fine.

Alternately, post this same question in the NV Forum Here or ask a mod to move it there.

CQBL doesn't have any IR Illum. Vis/IR lasers only.

D2 has IR Illum (LED based) and it has a TON OF THROW meaning you (under your NOD) can see the Illum WAY out beyond the distance you can reliably ID a target with your NOD. It can also be adjusted to use as a flood. It's also the biggest and heaviest of your options. The glow from the LED Illum is reportedly visible at 50 yds or so if you're looking directly at it. (don't try that yourself, it isn't good for your eyes).

A3 has non adjustable (or a very limited adjustment range) Laser based IR Illum (IIRC).

@TNVC_Sam will suggest ATPIAL-C due to easier zeroing procedure and less noticed issues needing return to the company.

2 other new options (if you don't mind spending the coin) are

DBAL A4 (which adds white light and 2 separate IR LED Illum, flood and spot). $1600-1800 and not out yet. This LED Illum is only visible within a 1* axis and only under 10 yds. So it's pretty freaking covert.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/478216_Press-Release-Steiner-DBAL-A4.html

BEMeyers MWAL which uses Laser based Illum and is the absolute bees knees for IR Illum. $2500! (You read that right!)
https://tnvc.com/shop/b-e-meyers-mawl-c1-ir-visible-laser/



Frankly, I'd suggest upgrading your NOD before buying a $1500 or more LAM, but that's just my opinion.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. The Orion is West German surplus and I believe Gen 1 but it cascades and has a great view. Best 400 I ever spent on a firearm related item. It's going to serve on a backup shtf gun stashed at a friend's house.
I can't afford more NV for the Scar as a PVS14 won't work. I have a thermal for that and the PVS7 to assist with ID if needed.
It looks lime the I2 will fit the bill provided the KM3 IR Illuminator is adequate. Thoughts there?
The Otal-C IR is going on an AR and I will use the PVS7 unless you recommend the PVS14 there? In any case, I need an IR laser and Illuminator for sure so I should be gtg with the Otal and another KM3 I think.

I've never used an I2, but I think it will be adequate for your needs.

I'll not sure where to look, but there used to be an IR Laser shootout thread in the NV Forum that had pics with multiple devices under NOD. Maybe google and see if you can find it for reference?

Since you all ready have a M952V for IR/White light look at a Steiner OTAL-C IR laser only. They run around 325-399 but are either constant on or momentary via pressure pad.

Thanks. I did buy a Otal-C for another rifle and got it yesterday; pretty nice from what I can tell, tested it last night. Yesterday, I broke down and bought the I2 for the Scar as I want a visible laser. I will report back later but all in all, I think it was the right choice.

Ugh. If I had realized that you wanted Vis laser, I would have suggested something that had slaved IR/Vis capability like the CQBL or the DBAL A3. Sight in the Vis and bam the IR is sighted in as well.


I thought you were looking at the I2 single spectrum (IR Illum/IR laser).

No worries; the I2 has both visible and IR laser. I read that they are slaved.....hope so as that was part of the decision making process. If they aren't, I'll probably send it back. Thanks for your help; I really wanted the 'better' options but between the price and the fact I already have a good Illuminator, I went this route. Will report back as to the outcome once I see it; it's on backorder so no telling how long it will be.

Might have to correct myself, not sure they are slaved afterall. Still, I got what I think it is a great deal on a tan one with green visible laser so will try it out.

Not slaved. It might not bother you, not sure.

The I2 is not slaved, but there is a way to easily zero it if you have a NV compatible red dot. At night pick a target furthest away you can hit with with both you vis/IR laser, while looking through your already zeroed red dot sight (with your PVS7 while sighting in your IR laser) just overlap both lasers your red dot and your done. Now your vis/IR laser ill never be greater than your offset of your bore to vis/IR laser which is @ 3/4"x1.5". I like to zero my red dot to 50/200 meter zero since your shots will never be 1.5" high or low at 25M to 200M and everything thing else will be hold overs.

To answer your original question that I missed: A class 1 laser is more than enough for your NODs. Your ID range is the limiting factor not the laser.
Also the Steiner DBAL 9007 IR light/laser that another poster mentioned is a better option for NODs vs a vis/IR laser DBAL due to the limiting use/range of a vis laser during the day.

Thanks. The laser was on backorder and I cancelled it as after doing some more reading (including here) it seems I'm better served with something else. The visible laser will almost be useless and I want this for night use.

If you can find a decent price on a DBAL 9007 Id wait for that. They're the same price as the standard I2 @ 600-700 but everybody wants them so they're back ordered or people are price gouging for them. Check around and see if they can put you on a waiting list. Just be aware the illuminator on the 9007 is good for @ 100-150 yards max depending on your surrounding light pollution.. After that its pretty useless.

Found the thread I was talking about...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_148/1431010_New-LDI-Steiner-DBAL-A3-and-I2----With-Review.html

Would I be better off with the Otal-IR and a KM3 Illuminator? Starting to think I don't need the visible laser afterall since you can only see it short distances in the light. Don't want it for night.

Visible laser is really only good for zeroing your IR laser (assuming slaved) or pointing when someone else doesn't have NOD.  You'll be able to see the Vis Laser both visually and through your NOD.

I'm not sure what the actual usable range of a KM3 set on IR is.

Price wise? Is there a real cost difference in I2 (single spectrum) and a K2 head + OTALCIR?
Multiple functions in one unit? I think an IR/IR I2 is a really really good choice assuming you can find one.

What's your budget?

Around $700. I already have the flashlight, IR adapter and KM3 head. I also have the Otal-IR laser and plan to zero it with the reflective targets sold by TNVC.

And to be upfront, I'm no Operator; just an old man who wants to shoot some pigs and critters at night and who wants to protect my family should society eventually go south. I have preps but am not a prepper.

Single Spectrum I2 would be perfect for you then. I see them used for $650 occasionally, just be patient.

Or (if you WANT Vis/IR lasers), wait for a sale on a CQBL. Mine was $618 delivered, and I paid extra for 3 day shipping.

Third option is another OTALCIR, save that extra $ for whatever (ammo, put it toward a chest rig/plate carrier, etc).

Thanks again. I think the bottom line need for me doesn't include viz laser; starting to see no need for it and would rather have the IR Illuminator....if I need it. Do I? Is the Dbal I2 illuminator that much better than what I have?

Just saw a video with the Dbal D2 comparing the illuminator with the KM3 head and man, what a difference! The range is much greater and the ability to dial in/out the illuminator is impressive. Decisions, decisions.....
I need to clear out some space in the gun safe so I may do that and save the funds for the D2.

I have a D2. It's HUGE, but the LED IR Illum on that sucker is INSANE. It's honestly amazing and it seems like you can see forever with it turned on.

I see them under $1000 used occasionally in the EE and through other sites.

Yeah, I don't know why I'm trying to make love to this decision; just gonna save a little more and get it done right!