Anyone else annoyed with Surefire making lights brighter and brighter...?

AR-15 » Lights and Lasers

AR Sponsor:

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Anyone else annoyed with Surefire making lights brighter and brighter...? (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 12/7/2016 2:36:19 AM EDT

Anyone else annoyed with Surefire making lights brighter and brighter and with shorter and shorter battery life?

I don't need 600 lumens on a handgun light (x300). That much light will blind me and ruin my night vision. I would rather have 100 lumens and 6-8 hours of battery life.

Posted: 12/7/2016 2:48:47 AM EDT

[#1]

Ahhhh, no!

Posted: 12/7/2016 2:51:03 AM EDT

[#2]

Great. Most of us want as much output as they can squeeze out of the batteries.

Posted: 12/7/2016 4:07:48 AM EDT

[#3]

I'm with you Spunk2. I am more interested in a flashlight having a long runtime for maximum use. On a weapon mounted light there is only so much illumination that you need or can use. Brighter and brighter for the simple sake of having bragging rights, and as a marketing gimmick, is wasted on me atleast. Am I really going to be able to tell the difference between 1500 and 2000 lumens while I am in the middle of a gunfight for my very life

Oh my, first world problems.

Posted: 12/7/2016 7:33:22 AM EDT

[#4]

Nope . ..my aging eyes love the high output lights..but I do get my 123 batteries for free.

Posted: 12/7/2016 10:08:42 AM EDT

[#5]

Indoors, I concur. While doing nighttime dry fire training in my old apartment, it quickly became apparent that even my 200 lumen scout light was too much in that small space. This is true with not only white walls but other light shades as well. Gloss paint makes it worse.

In my house with textured semi gloss earth tone walls, 200 lumens is doable on my AR. It works particularly well perched at the top of my stairs where there's no direct splash back.

As far as pistol lights, I prefer the older TLR-1 on my nightstand pistol because of the lower lumen output.

Outdoors it's different.

Posted: 12/7/2016 10:21:49 AM EDT

[#6]

No.

If I could mount a can of captured sun at the end of my pistol that would turn the area in front of me into dust.....I would

Posted: 12/7/2016 10:54:31 AM EDT

[#7]

send me you overpowered surefire lights and I will send you my dim ones in exchange

Posted: 12/7/2016 12:35:29 PM EDT

[#8]

They make the auto-adjust Intellabeam version in most of their models.

Posted: 12/7/2016 12:45:58 PM EDT

[#9]

Nah, I like the high output weapon lights Surefire and Streamlight make.

Posted: 12/7/2016 12:49:50 PM EDT

[#10]

Negative Ghostrider. I'll admit the output for indoor use is overkill but I sure do appreciate it when outdoors. Free batteries are nice too.

Posted: 12/7/2016 1:19:44 PM EDT

[#11]

I guess I was speaking more towards indoors with a handgun mounted light. 600 lumens is WAY too much. I don't want to blind myself and lose my night vision when using it indoors.

Posted: 12/7/2016 1:43:47 PM EDT

[#12]

Yes, 600 Lumen is too bright for me on a handgun.

All my walls are white and I will blind myself with it.

BRING BACK THE 200 LUMEN x300!

Posted: 12/7/2016 2:18:29 PM EDT

[#13]

First weapon light with a dimmer adjustment wins.
Just needs to be a micro screw driver slot.

Posted: 12/7/2016 2:36:55 PM EDT

[#14]

if someone wants a older but new x300 I may have one or two that I would swap for the brighter ones. ( I live in Florida so I sleep with sun glasses on)

Posted: 12/7/2016 2:37:42 PM EDT

[#15]

For indoor outdoor light I prefer the SureFire EB1 with a tactical switch. 1/2 press/ twist has a low of 15 lumens a full press/ twist 200 lumens. The TIR lens give you throw to reach over 100m

Posted: 12/7/2016 4:23:33 PM EDT

[#16]

I cannot get enough light outdoors. At least so far. But I have not tried one of the really bright 1000 lumen + lights.

For indoors, it depends. Having cleared quite a few houses for various possibly armed suspects, I always felt brighter was better. But 500-600 lumens is probably enough though. But Law Enforcement is a white light world where bright lights dominate. You are not really sneaking around. You pretty much keep the light on most if not all the time so being blinded is less of an issue.

If you are in a familiar home-defense environment (your own home), in a more defense mode, you may be better served by 200-300 indoors.

I remember when my 60 lumen 6P was awesome...

Posted: 12/7/2016 4:33:59 PM EDT

[#17]

I want to give the bad guy a sunburn with my light. does that answer your question?

Posted: 12/7/2016 6:05:28 PM EDT

[#18]

The good thing is everyone who buys into the brighter is better war sells their SureFires cheap since there is a limited market for older lights. If they ever die and SureFire doesn't have the parts or NOS they send you an updated version

Posted: 12/7/2016 10:48:52 PM EDT

[#19]

for a long while, Surefire would lag when it came to mid-stream adopting of new LED tech. Other mfgr's were beating them to the punch for "more lumens". They have finally started catching up. Remember though, their first customer for the last while were Gov't agencies who don't really care about run times and have skids full of batteries. I have used 1-300 lumen lights inside and out as well as 500-1500 lumens in the same setting. I would rather have the greater output. That said, there is a lot to say for a light that has a good balance between high output and run times. For a defensive/tactical scenario, all the light I can have is better. For a SHFT scenario (major blackout/natural disaster) I likely want run time. That's why I have multiple lights - YMMV

Mark

Posted: 12/8/2016 10:07:51 AM EDT

[#20]

not me!

They are making lights that are brighter and consume less energy...what more could one ask for?

Posted: 12/8/2016 5:01:23 PM EDT

[#21]

I'm all about more LUMENS man!

Posted: 12/8/2016 5:16:15 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
not me!

They are making lights that are brighter and consume less energy...what more could one ask for?

View Quote

That really is the key for me

Posted: 12/8/2016 7:50:53 PM EDT

[#23]

Have you guys chanting "MOAR LUMENS" actually used your lights? As in used them while practicing on nighttime targets with plenty of things around to reflect some of that light?

I have great night vision. Turning on most modern weapon lights sends it straight to hell as my pupils dilate from the high lumen blast. IMO the old Insight LEDs with ~150 or so lumens were perfect. Bright enough to see what's in front of me, but usually without turning what the light is shining on into the only thing I can see in detail.

Posted: 12/8/2016 7:55:35 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Anyone else annoyed with Surefire making lights brighter and brighter and with shorter and shorter battery life?

I don't need 600 lumens on a handgun light (x300). That much light will blind me and ruin my night vision. I would rather have 100 lumens and 6-8 hours of battery life.

View Quote

Nahhhh...

The Gucci-GearQueers rush out to buy the latest greatest and brightest, and I buy their hand-me-downs cheap in the EE

Posted: 12/8/2016 7:57:54 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
First weapon light with a dimmer adjustment wins.
Just needs to be a micro screw driver slot.

View Quote

Sign me up! If I can dim my truck's gauge cluster, I should be able to dial down my weaponlights too.

Posted: 12/8/2016 9:58:37 PM EDT

[#26]

Frankly, Lumens by itself doesn't mean jack shit on deciding on a light.

I had a Wicked Lasers "The Torch" flashlight that was 4,100 Lumens. It hardly would illuminate anything twenty feet away. It was ALL FLOOD and zero throw. It WOULD set newspaper on fire in less than 5 seconds. It was the biggest waste of money I ever spent.

You need to decide whether throw or flood is more important and if at all possible actually check out the light you're interested in at night. I have one of the discontinued TNVC 600 Lumen LED heads on my Surefire body. It's fine for indoors, a nice combination of throw and flood.

Posted: 12/9/2016 6:58:34 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Have you guys chanting "MOAR LUMENS" actually used your lights? As in used them while practicing on nighttime targets with plenty of things around to reflect some of that light?

View Quote

Yes. A lot. In a variety of different indoor and outdoor environments.

Variable brightness flashlights are fantastic. But I want the brightest, single mode weaponlight that I can get.

Posted: 12/10/2016 3:00:15 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Have you guys chanting "MOAR LUMENS" actually used your lights? As in used them while practicing on nighttime targets with plenty of things around to reflect some of that light?

I have great night vision. Turning on most modern weapon lights sends it straight to hell as my pupils dilate from the high lumen blast. IMO the old Insight LEDs with ~150 or so lumens were perfect. Bright enough to see what's in front of me, but usually without turning what the light is shining on into the only thing I can see in detail.

View Quote

Yes. I want ALL the lumens. I use my lights like a thinking man.( Baseboard and umbrella illumination in unfamiliar environs, ets). Blinding yourself is impossible if you use lights intelligently, but if you use even a 100 lumen light poorly, you can accomplish it in a hurry.a few years ago, I used a custom 700+ lumen surefire 6p for a night time Southnarc AMIS course and loved it (pre p3x). The only person it blinded was the "bad guy" that I aimed it at as I filled him in while he blindly sprayed sims into the almighty corona of justice that illuminated his desperate form (none hit me, or the light, for the record, and he later said "I. couldn't see anything. It was just...bam! I was blind. What is that thing???)

That said, with your rare medical condition, I'm not sure what to tell you. If your pupils dilate when you encounter bright lights, I've got nothing.

Posted: 12/12/2016 10:29:19 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Anyone else annoyed with Surefire making lights brighter and brighter and with shorter and shorter battery life?

I don't need 600 lumens on a handgun light (x300). That much light will blind me and ruin my night vision. I would rather have 100 lumens and 6-8 hours of battery life.

View Quote

Low output Malkoff in original Surefire 6P or Z2 host using 16650 cells.

Posted: 12/12/2016 10:45:36 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
That said, with your rare medical condition, I'm not sure what to tell you. If your pupils dilate when you encounter bright lights, I've got nothing.

View Quote

Egh. Don't know why I typed dilate. I meant contract.

Posted: 12/13/2016 3:54:24 AM EDT

[#31]

Even the settlers needed more lumens.

Posted: 12/18/2016 11:21:09 PM EDT

[#32]

I am with the op. We should have the option.

Posted: 12/19/2016 8:10:17 AM EDT

[#33]

When lights hit 350 lumens with a decent reflector, I was set. I am in the same camp as the group that says better run time and less lumens. I say 350 and yet I run a 160/180 (not sure) lumen Surefire X300 on a pistol and again, perfect.

Posted: 12/19/2016 8:56:39 AM EDT

[#34]

Nope, I'll take it as bright as I can get.

Posted: 12/19/2016 5:20:10 PM EDT

[#35]

NV all the things.

~Augee

Posted: 12/19/2016 9:51:46 PM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/208426/image-106525.png

Even the settlers needed more lumens.

View Quote

Very good discussion/demonstration of this topic by Aaron (aka A A Ron) from Sage Dynamics here:

All The Lumens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN2K7UhT6rk

Posted: 12/19/2016 11:45:30 PM EDT

[#37]

Nope. Don't bother me a bit. I was skeptical when they upped the original X200 from 150 to 170 lumens or whatever it was. I was skeptical when the X300U went to 500 lumens. I was happy about the 600 lumen X300U and would probably buy an 800 lumen if it came out.

The light won't blind you if you know how to use it.

Posted: 12/20/2016 1:44:13 AM EDT

[#38]

A 75 watt light bulb is about 800 lumens. 600 is not too much for indoors if it's got a good spill and you know how to properly use it.

Posted: 12/20/2016 2:42:00 PM EDT

[#39]

I like the brighter the better. I want to be able to see and see well what I am focusing on.

Posted: 12/21/2016 1:26:07 AM EDT

[#40]

Many people shoot during the day. In fact, noone I know has ever been scared to go outside and shoot something in the middle of the day (dark to light rapid transition).

Daytime sunlight is 10-25K LUX (not direct sunlight). Direct sunlight is 32,000-100K Lux. This is a bit brighter than any Surefire I am aware of that is being mounted on an M4 or pistol.

Posted: 12/22/2016 8:53:15 PM EDT

[#41]

I'm rather annoyed by the LACK of lumens from Surefire. If they went to 18650 battery across the board 1000 lumens would be easily accessible in 6P sizes. My foreign lights that run on 18650 are only rarely dazzling and 1000 lumens for over an hour. In contrast, my 500 and 600 lumen Surfire are lacking more often than my 1000 lumen lights dazzle.

In addition I think several points need to be clear.

If you turn on a flashlight your dark adapted vision is toast... and that is OK.
If your opponent has a 100 lumen light and you have a 1000 lumen light, with similar beam shape, you will gain light dominance and blind him, while you get to see.
You can use intermittent bounced light effectively when doing covert searching with a brighter light.
Missing something due to inadequate light is 10x worse than a temporary dazzle from a bright light.

Posted: 12/22/2016 10:48:25 PM EDT

[#42]

I pray to God that Surefire stays with 123s...in the LE world, they are the standard, and they work. I have no desire to be hunting down oddball batteries, or trying to explain what batteries fit what device to the folks who do our ordering. I doubt I am alone.

As in the past, Surefire is doing just fine where it counts. There are plenty of other manufacturers for those with lumen fetishes.

Posted: 12/23/2016 1:52:09 AM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
I pray to God that Surefire stays with 123s...in the LE world, they are the standard, and they work. I have no desire to be hunting down oddball batteries, or trying to explain what batteries fit what device to the folks who do our ordering. I doubt I am alone.

As in the past, Surefire is doing just fine where it counts. There are plenty of other manufacturers for those with lumen fetishes.

View Quote

That, and rechargeable is far and away the least stable chemistry.

Posted: 12/23/2016 1:49:11 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

That, and rechargeable is far and away the least stable chemistry.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I pray to God that Surefire stays with 123s...in the LE world, they are the standard, and they work. I have no desire to be hunting down oddball batteries, or trying to explain what batteries fit what device to the folks who do our ordering. I doubt I am alone.

As in the past, Surefire is doing just fine where it counts. There are plenty of other manufacturers for those with lumen fetishes.

That, and rechargeable is far and away the least stable chemistry.

Then you haven't had a lot of experience with NAME BRAND 18650 batteries.

I'll get a longer run time on my AW 3,400 mah 18650's with a brighter light than with 123's.

Hell my old Surefire M6 holds 6 123 batteries and burns through them in twenty minutes.

Posted: 12/23/2016 2:52:55 PM EDT

[#45]

Rechargeables and boutique batteries are for hobbyists. I can keep a dozen 123s in my go bag, and be good on light for a year. The same batteries fit my handhelds, my pistol light, and my rifle light. They store well for years, and they arent all that expensive. When my light goes down, with a battery swap, its up and running immediately.

Like I said, Surefire knows what its doing, and they do it well.

Posted: 12/24/2016 3:33:42 AM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:

Then you haven't had a lot of experience with NAME BRAND 18650 batteries.

I'll get a longer run time on my AW 3,400 mah 18650's with a brighter light than with 123's.

Hell my old Surefire M6 holds 6 123 batteries and burns through them in twenty minutes.

View Quote

How well do name brand rechargeable batteries work in -10*f weather? How long do they hold a charge? Primaries lose less than 1%per year. Most good rechargeable battered lose 10x that, and the bad ones lose all the charge in a year or two.

Primaries are where it's at for serious use. Hobby use?bore a 6 or 9p, drop in rechargeables and slap on a zero rez tail cap and oveready head and go have fun. I get it, and I have had some of that kind of light. For stuff I count on though, it's cr123 surefire or duracell.

Posted: 12/24/2016 3:42:44 AM EDT

[#47]

All the lumens

Posted: 12/24/2016 3:48:50 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Anyone else annoyed with Surefire making lights brighter and brighter and with shorter and shorter battery life?

I don't need 600 lumens on a handgun light (x300). That much light will blind me and ruin my night vision. I would rather have 100 lumens and 6-8 hours of battery life.

View Quote

Have you shot in no/ low light a lot? What would you need 6-8 hours of life in a dim light on a handgun for? Thing should be on for a few seconds at a time, a few minutes at most.
If a 600 lumen light indoors will ruin your night vision, then it's probably dark enough a pistol shot would ruin it as well.
The brighter the light, the less strobe effect gunshots have as well, plus is will blind the FUCK out of who you potentially might be shooting.

I went to a 600 lumen light on my HD rifle after finding out that not having a bright enough light in dim light made it almost worse than no light at all.

Posted: 12/24/2016 3:58:51 AM EDT

[#49]

If you have an x300U and you think it's too bright, I'll gladly trade you for my x300.

Seriously, hit me up. I'm sure we can work something out.

Posted: 12/24/2016 4:03:03 AM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yes, 600 Lumen is too bright for me on a handgun.

All my walls are white and I will blind myself with it.

BRING BACK THE 200 LUMEN x300!

View Quote

Buy an old one off the EE then.

I'm actually more annoyed with them jumping lumen count on their Vampire series so quickly. Spend $300+ on a light and then they come out with a much better version...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Anyone else annoyed with Surefire making lights brighter and brighter...? (Page 1 of 3)

AR-15 » Lights and Lasers

AR Sponsor:

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us