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Posted: 5/3/2017 10:04:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
If these 2 sights were the same price, which one would you purchase and why? Hand's down the Kahles due to weight (and it's a great looking scope). Here's a great video for comparison. |
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Posted: 5/3/2017 2:06:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Link above is not working.
I have many scopes from many different companies. Don't have either of those, but a Kahles Helia CL I have in 2-7x36 is easily the best scope I've ever looked through optically and in mechanical tracking accuracy and repeatability. Stunning optical clarity, especially in low light. Not really a fan of 1-6x scopes in general because of the small 24mm objective and typically porky weight penalty on most. The Kahles is lighter than the Vortex, but still shackled with the 24mm objective. |
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Posted: 5/3/2017 4:41:06 PM EDT
[#3]
This is a joke question, right?
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Posted: 5/3/2017 4:42:09 PM EDT
[#4]
No trolls allowed
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Posted: 5/3/2017 6:54:00 PM EDT
[#5]
K16i, no question. I like the reticle options more, lighter weight, amazing glass, and great illumination.
The Razor is no slouch, but the Kahles is just better. |
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Posted: 5/3/2017 7:09:21 PM EDT
[#6]
How battle durable is the Kahles?
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Posted: 5/3/2017 7:15:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
K16i, no question. I like the reticle options more, lighter weight, amazing glass, and great illumination. The Razor is no slouch, but the Kahles is just better. |
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Posted: 5/4/2017 12:37:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How battle durable is the Kahles? |
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Posted: 5/4/2017 6:39:52 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm making the same decision between the Kahles and the Razor. Does anyone find on the Razor that the 2/10 mil adjustments and the whole mil reticle subtensions are too coarse in practical use?
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Posted: 5/4/2017 8:41:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uhhh.......... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How battle durable is the Kahles? Reviews speak to the amazing glass and reticle options but not its ruggedness for the most part. |
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Posted: 5/4/2017 9:08:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm making the same decision between the Kahles and the Razor. Does anyone find on the Razor that the 2/10 mil adjustments and the whole mil reticle subtensions are too coarse in practical use? |
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Posted: 5/4/2017 10:14:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How battle durable is the Kahles? There is a reason .mil and gov guns are seen with Razors HDs. |
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Posted: 5/4/2017 11:17:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I'm not mistaken, the Razor HD series was designed for harsh conditions- the reason for it being heavier than other variables. I believe that Kahles scope was designed to be the best at gaming and hunting. There is a reason .mil and gov guns are seen with Razors HDs. |
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Posted: 5/4/2017 7:33:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I'm not mistaken, the Razor HD series was designed for harsh conditions- the reason for it being heavier than other variables. I believe that Kahles scope was designed to be the best at gaming and hunting. There is a reason .mil and gov guns are seen with Razors HDs. |
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Posted: 5/4/2017 7:47:10 PM EDT
[#15]
I have been wrestling with this question for over a month now.I just don't understand how the kahles, or even swarovski scope reticles could compare to the jm bdc reticle on the razor.The subtensions on the 2 higher end scopes don't match up with anything.I think it's like 460 yards is the first line down on the reticle, if sighted at 200.What am I missing.My strike eagle and razor jm, line up with every .223 load from 200, all the way to 600.Someone please explain this to me.
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Posted: 5/4/2017 10:10:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been wrestling with this question for over a month now.I just don't understand how the kahles, or even swarovski scope reticles could compare to the jm bdc reticle on the razor.The subtensions on the 2 higher end scopes don't match up with anything.I think it's like 460 yards is the first line down on the reticle, if sighted at 200.What am I missing.My strike eagle and razor jm, line up with every .223 load from 200, all the way to 600.Someone please explain this to me. |
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Posted: 5/4/2017 10:29:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe the stadia are in mils or moa, not tied to a specific BDC for a single cartridge. SM-1, I believe is in mils. That works better for me. BDC for specific cartridges, tied to yards or meters are only estimates. Change barrel length, bullet weight and BC, change attitude a BDC gets way off. A scope with matching mil/mil or moa/moa turrets and reticle is more versatile. Just get ballistic software like Strelok+ Pro, which is less than $20. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have been wrestling with this question for over a month now.I just don't understand how the kahles, or even swarovski scope reticles could compare to the jm bdc reticle on the razor.The subtensions on the 2 higher end scopes don't match up with anything.I think it's like 460 yards is the first line down on the reticle, if sighted at 200.What am I missing.My strike eagle and razor jm, line up with every .223 load from 200, all the way to 600.Someone please explain this to me. I have shot my strike eagle out to 600 yards and all of the lines match up to my load, except the 600.I now know I have to hold a line width high to make 60p yard hits, that all I need to remember. Doesn't easier translate to faster? |
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Posted: 5/5/2017 1:15:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, I get that, but my point is, if you are shooting at a 3 gun march how could you possibly calculate this while on the clock?If you were to try and remember the holds, what would it be like?Ok, the target is 350 yards, so I need to hold up 3/4 of the way between the 3rd and 4th hashmark? The whole mildly moa reticles just seem slow, and not very precise. I have shot my strike eagle out to 600 yards and all of the lines match up to my load, except the 600.I now know I have to hold a line width high to make 60p yard hits, that all I need to remember. Doesn't easier translate to faster? The BDCs on my ACOGs were essentially worthless on my SBRs until I started fiddling with my zero distance and even that isn't perfect. When I had a Razor 1-6x, I specifically avoided the JM1 because I didn't want a BDC. It's not hard to work up the exact drops for your specific setup and memorize them. |
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Posted: 5/5/2017 8:48:46 PM EDT
[#19]
You must be right, I am definetly the weird one.I see alot of people are trading off their Razors for more expensive optics.One moRe question then. IN order to make my strike eagle reticle work for me at all distances, I had to load my rifle to .556 velocities. Why not just do this?, or find the bullet with the BC, to make it work?I would gladly buy a $2000, or $3000 scope, if I honestly though it would be better.
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Posted: 5/6/2017 1:15:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must be right, I am definetly the weird one.I see alot of people are trading off their Razors for more expensive optics.One moRe question then. IN order to make my strike eagle reticle work for me at all distances, I had to load my rifle to .556 velocities. Why not just do this?, or find the bullet with the BC, to make it work?I would gladly buy a $2000, or $3000 scope, if I honestly though it would be better. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 2:19:42 AM EDT
[#21]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 5/6/2017 2:20:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must be right, I am definetly the weird one.I see alot of people are trading off their Razors for more expensive optics.One moRe question then. IN order to make my strike eagle reticle work for me at all distances, I had to load my rifle to .556 velocities. Why not just do this?, or find the bullet with the BC, to make it work?I would gladly buy a $2000, or $3000 scope, if I honestly though it would be better. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 2:28:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...and this is why bdc reticle for the general population suck. It beats a duplex though. But I'd rather just have a plain old mil dot than a bdc. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 8:05:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There have been a few pics of the K16i in use on SOF weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I'm not mistaken, the Razor HD series was designed for harsh conditions- the reason for it being heavier than other variables. I believe that Kahles scope was designed to be the best at gaming and hunting. There is a reason .mil and gov guns are seen with Razors HDs. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 9:59:19 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are you planing on shooting? 3 gun? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm making the same decision between the Kahles and the Razor. Does anyone find on the Razor that the 2/10 mil adjustments and the whole mil reticle subtensions are too coarse in practical use? Given the Razor's popularity, I assume the coarser hashes and adjustments are not an issue but I was curious if anyone who has some time behind the optic found themselves wishing for finer adjustments and subtensions. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 10:00:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There have been a few pics of the K16i in use on SOF weapons. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 11:46:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3 gun would be an appropriate scenario as it tends toward practical shooting. Given the Razor's popularity, I assume the coarser hashes and adjustments are not an issue but I was curious if anyone who has some time behind the optic found themselves wishing for finer adjustments and subtensions. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 1:20:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been using a Razor 1-6 for 3 Gun for the last 5 years, it's a great scope. I've also shot rifles with the Kahles 1-6 on it, if they were the same price I'd buy a Kahles BUT for the $700 price difference I'd be hard pressed to trade in my Razor. As far as the reticle, I just feel extremely comfortable with my Razor's. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 1:22:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been wrestling with this question for over a month now.I just don't understand how the kahles, or even swarovski scope reticles could compare to the jm bdc reticle on the razor.The subtensions on the 2 higher end scopes don't match up with anything.I think it's like 460 yards is the first line down on the reticle, if sighted at 200.What am I missing.My strike eagle and razor jm, line up with every .223 load from 200, all the way to 600.Someone please explain this to me. The JM-1 is excellent. Reticle design is the weakness of most LPV. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 1:37:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any links to those pics? Just curious to see. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 2:19:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3 gun would be an appropriate scenario as it tends toward practical shooting. Given the Razor's popularity, I assume the coarser hashes and adjustments are not an issue but I was curious if anyone who has some time behind the optic found themselves wishing for finer adjustments and subtensions. |
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Posted: 5/6/2017 10:18:19 PM EDT
[#32]
I am shooting hornady 55 gr sp .I am running about 3150 fps, and here is how it works out.
200 zero 300 reticle 2.4 moa, my load 2.5 moa 400 reticle 5.6 moa my load ,5.95moa 500 reticle 9.5 moa, my load 10.29 moa 600 reticle 14.6 moa, my load 15.75 moa. With the exception of the 600 yard reticle subtension, these are close enough for most 3 gun targets. Swarovski has a subtension moa deal on their site too 3.6, 10.8, and 18.0 .Maybe this lines up with a 220 swift, or maybe a 45/70, but nothing even close for 556. |
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Posted: 5/20/2017 8:09:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Is the Razor's JM-1 reticle the preferred reticle and would that be the biggest deciding factor towards purchasing it over a Kahles?
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