Another ELCAN Question

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another ELCAN Question

Posted: 4/7/2017 12:42:11 AM EDT

A few weeks ago I asked about the ELCAN DR 1/4 optic...

Now I am looking at the OS4X, about the same price as an ACOG, I am looking at the LED ACOG TA 110

Any feedback on the ELCAN OS4X?

I got these ELCANs in my head and can't shake the thoughts.

I have never looked through one, but all the reviews talk about the glass clarity and durability of the optic.

77

Posted: 4/7/2017 12:57:34 AM EDT

[#1]

Here you go:

http://www.gunsandtech.com/gun-optics/tyan/elcan-os4x/

It out resolves the ACOG and the DR model (due to having a 2nd prism) on the Zeiss chart. Plus the ACOG has a design defect that some of them will have a blurry low right. It was told by one of the guy who design it.

Posted: 4/7/2017 12:59:26 AM EDT

[#2]

Between the OS4X and an ACOG, I'd choose ACOG. I'd prefer having tritium/fiber optic over battery powered illumination if I wasn't gaining any of the upsides of the SpecterDR. You can find used TA31s for significantly less than the OS4X new as well (and good luck finding a used OS4X, they aren't very common).

IMO, just pony up for the SpecterDR, you won't regret it.

Posted: 4/7/2017 1:03:41 AM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here you go:

http://www.gunsandtech.com/gun-optics/tyan/elcan-os4x/

It out resolves the ACOG and the DR model (due to having a 2nd prism) on the Zeiss chart. Plus the ACOG has a design defect that some of them will have a blurry low right. It was told by one of the guy who design it.

View Quote

The bluriness only affects the reticle IME, not what you're looking at through the optic. Most ACOGs don't have any part of the reticle that spills over into the right side of your FOV (except for the mil scale on .mil models), so it's pretty much a non-issue.

Posted: 4/7/2017 3:24:42 AM EDT

[#4]

People on the internet hate that EOtech, but they love that Elcan.

Posted: 4/7/2017 5:17:24 AM EDT

[#5]

Thanks for the link, good info....my only concern is the ARMS mount, I am so used to Larue mounts, I am not sure about the ARMS. I am going to research tightening them, Larue is so easy.

Thanks,

77

Posted: 4/7/2017 8:49:30 AM EDT

[#6]

Elcans have been used by SOCOM for years with outstanding results.

ARMS levers are fine. The thing is just as durable as an ACOG.

Posted: 4/7/2017 2:32:31 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
Thanks for the link, good info....my only concern is the ARMS mount, I am so used to Larue mounts, I am not sure about the ARMS. I am going to research tightening them, Larue is so easy.

Thanks,

77

View Quote

Gen 2 levers are adjustable and Gen 1 levers can be upgraded to Gen 2 at the user level fairly easily.

Posted: 4/7/2017 6:17:05 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here you go:

http://www.gunsandtech.com/gun-optics/tyan/elcan-os4x/

It out resolves the ACOG and the DR model (due to having a 2nd prism) on the Zeiss chart. Plus the ACOG has a design defect that some of them will have a blurry low right. It was told by one of the guy who design it.

View Quote

ACOGs exhibit a bit of blur on their right side, however it is only in the reticles not the image. As almost all ACOGs don't have any portion of their reticle outside of their center save for the RCO 31's, it's not an issue. Even on the RCO's the effected outer stadia aren't essential (or even very useful) so it's a non-issue.

Posted: 4/7/2017 11:28:55 PM EDT

[#9]

I had some ARMS BUIS a few years back, IIRC, they were well made and the lever system was durable. Having used Larue for so many years, I feel these are the basis to judge from.

I did read about someone having to shim the ARMS levers to get the tension needed. But reading about the Gen IIs adjustability, this is good. I am not trying to overthink this, but before dropping $1.2K, I want to make sure. Especially with never handling an ELCAN, never...

The TA 11 ACOGs are fantastic, but with a 70mm eye relief, almost three inches, this fits me better. I have never caught on to the NTCH shooting method, as this is a hobby, not a living for me.

I have two of my rifles in mind for this, both LMTs, one is a CQB LM8 and the other is a CQB MARS rifle.

Thanks,

77

Posted: 4/8/2017 12:07:29 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I had some ARMS BUIS a few years back, IIRC, they were well made and the lever system was durable. Having used Larue for so many years, I feel these are the basis to judge from.

I did read about someone having to shim the ARMS levers to get the tension needed. But reading about the Gen IIs adjustability, this is good. I am not trying to overthink this, but before dropping $1.2K, I want to make sure. Especially with never handling an ELCAN, never...

The TA 11 ACOGs are fantastic, but with a 70mm eye relief, almost three inches, this fits me better. I have never caught on to the NTCH shooting method, as this is a hobby, not a living for me.

I have two of my rifles in mind for this, both LMTs, one is a CQB LM8 and the other is a CQB MARS rifle.

Thanks,

77

View Quote

I have 3x ELCANs, two OS x4 and a DR. No problem with the ARMS levers on the ELCANs. However, one of my EOTech SOCOM model has a super tight lever. Raytheon will not move away from the ARMS mount because it's what the U.S. and NATO want it.

Posted: 4/8/2017 12:30:43 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
I had some ARMS BUIS a few years back, IIRC, they were well made and the lever system was durable. Having used Larue for so many years, I feel these are the basis to judge from.

I did read about someone having to shim the ARMS levers to get the tension needed. But reading about the Gen IIs adjustability, this is good. I am not trying to overthink this, but before dropping $1.2K, I want to make sure. Especially with never handling an ELCAN, never...

The TA 11 ACOGs are fantastic, but with a 70mm eye relief, almost three inches, this fits me better. I have never caught on to the NTCH shooting method, as this is a hobby, not a living for me.

I have two of my rifles in mind for this, both LMTs, one is a CQB LM8 and the other is a CQB MARS rifle.

Thanks,

77

View Quote

With the TA11, you won't have to shoot NTCH, it has 2.4" of eye relief compared to 2.7" for the OS4X. It's also going to be lighter as well.

I still say go for the SpecterDR.

Posted: 4/8/2017 12:58:25 AM EDT

[#12]

I've had an OS4x for at least a couple of years. The only thing that has been an annoyance is the lighted reticle switch. The light will often flicker as if it has a poor contact.

Posted: 4/8/2017 7:15:08 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

With the TA11, you won't have to shoot NTCH, it has 2.4" of eye relief compared to 2.7" for the OS4X. It's also going to be lighter as well.

I still say go for the SpecterDR.

View Quote

RJ, I was off by saying this, I alreadt have a TA11 and yes the ER is generous, what I should have said is the relief of the ELCAN is greater, not by much, but from what I have read is the advertised 70mm is conservative, the ER is slightly more...the TA11 is so easy to use. This is my delima, I know the 11 series, I know what I am getting, but I keep looking at the ELCAN. This all started with me first looking at the DR.

But here are my thoughts, I have a Trijicon 1-4 Accupower, after using it for a while now, I finally realized I do not use the 1X, if I want to shoot red dot, I use my Aimpoint, so I am not sure if the additional $1K for the DR will get some use. That is why I am looking at the OS.

Thanks for all the replies...the good thing is, all of the replies are positive for the ELCAN product except for what GySgtD said above about the poor switch contact, this is the first I heard of this. Sounds like a trip back to ELCAN is in order...

77

Posted: 4/8/2017 11:54:10 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
I've had an OS4x for at least a couple of years. The only thing that has been an annoyance is the lighted reticle switch. The light will often flicker as if it has a poor contact.

View Quote

You should contact Armament Technology for a repair and see if they would do it on good faith warranty even if is out of warranty. They are very good with that. If not see if you could talk them into upgrading the power system to the new version for $100.

Posted: 4/8/2017 1:16:37 PM EDT

[#15]

OK....I have heard about two up grades, one the ARMS to a Gen 2 and the upgraded power system. If I elect to buy one, where/who is the best to buy from and second, how do I know if I am getting the latest model with upgrades?

Thanks in advance

77

Posted: 4/8/2017 1:57:31 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

You should contact Armament Technology for a repair and see if they would do it on good faith warranty even if is out of warranty. They are very good with that. If not see if you could talk them into upgrading the power system to the new version for $100.

View Quote

I will look into that. Didn't know that there was any kind of power upgrade available. Didn't find any info on it on their website just now.

Posted: 4/8/2017 2:09:27 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
OK....I have heard about two up grades, one the ARMS to a Gen 2 and the upgraded power system. If I elect to buy one, where/who is the best to buy from and second, how do I know if I am getting the latest model with upgrades?

Thanks in advance

77

View Quote

Unsure on the upgraded Illumination system (although I'm sure it comes in all newly manufactured models), but AFAIK, Elcan does not sell any models with the Gen II levers. They all come with Gen I and you have to buy the Gen II retrofit kit from ARMS.

Posted: 4/23/2017 3:08:19 PM EDT

[#18]

I am getting ready to pull the trigger on the ELCAN, settled on the OS4X, the best prices I can find are Opticsplanet and SWFA, with SWFA being $20 more than OP...not having experience with either, who has the better reputation for CS, shipping, etc...I think both may have free shipping, hassle free is worth $20

Thanks,

77

Posted: 4/23/2017 3:14:37 PM EDT

[#19]

Optics planet has been known to not ship for awhile. I've personally experienced this. It may not be an issue with such a low demand item like an Elcan OS 4x. I have no experience with SWFA but I'm pretty sure they will price match over $20.

Posted: 4/23/2017 3:23:41 PM EDT

[#20]

I just got one two weeks ago from scopelist but shipped from Eurooptic. They price matched a quote I got from Botach and had it 3 days later. I had to use the "make an offer"option and got a decent price.
I'm not affiliated with any company just passing on info.

Posted: 4/25/2017 2:23:09 AM EDT

[#21]

What I like about the Specter DR is that it's dual reticle AND has variable power. It's also tough af. Those benefits offset the weight of the scope.

For a fixed power scope, I'd go with the lighter weight ACOG. I'm a huge fan, they're super tough, and the tritium fiber optic reticle on the no battery illuminated reticles are awesome. They also don't require a battery like ELCANs to illuminate. Though you have to replace tritium every 5-7 years. Pick your poison, they're both made by companies that produce really great glass

Posted: 4/25/2017 11:14:34 PM EDT

[#22]

If you are looking at battery powered fixed 4x consider the Browe. I will write a review on mine when I get the chance to test it out a little more.

Posted: 5/15/2017 8:55:55 PM EDT

[#23]

Well I finally ordered the OS4X. May have it by this Friday. Ordered the chevron reticle, 556 caliber, black, not the bronze.

Will update this post with my initial thoughts and range report in a week or so. Went with Europtics, best price I could find.

This was a tough decision, flip-flopped between the ELCAN and ACOG for weeks.

77

Posted: 5/15/2017 9:13:21 PM EDT

[#24]

I bought the 3x.
(On sale). Very pleased. Glass is great. Love the reticle. MY concerns. Eye box is tight....not terrible, just tight. FOV is great. I know they're different scopes but I think you'll like it. I'd also be interested to if the eye box is tight on the 4x.

Posted: 5/16/2017 8:06:00 AM EDT

[#25]

I happen to have both the OS4X and the TA-110.

I know you already made the purchase, but you honestly would have made a great choice either way. I find the TA-110 to be slightly brighter optically (larger objective lenses will do that). The LED illumination i the Trijicon is much brighter, but I find the Elcan's illumination settings more versatile. The Trijicon is larger and heavier, definitely breaking into LPV weight class.

Posted: 5/16/2017 6:46:54 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
I happen to have both the OS4X and the TA-110.

https://everydaymarksman.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/img_0464.jpg?w=825
https://everydaymarksman.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/ta110mounted.jpg?w=825
https://everydaymarksman.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/elcanta11sideby.jpg?w=825

I know you already made the purchase, but you honestly would have made a great choice either way. I find the TA-110 to be slightly brighter optically (larger objective lenses will do that). The LED illumination i the Trijicon is much brighter, but I find the Elcan's illumination settings more versatile. The Trijicon is larger and heavier, definitely breaking into LPV weight class.

View Quote

DispHero....

Thanks for the side by side....the LED 11 series is what I was looking at. What reticle do you have in each scope?

Thanks,

77

Posted: 5/16/2017 7:39:38 PM EDT

[#27]

I have the crosshair in the Elcan, and the green horseshoe in the TA-110. These photos aren't a good comparison (the battery on the Elcan needed replacement), but it gives an idea. The field of view on the Specter is wider than the TA-110's, as you can see in these pictures. Also, take these photos with a grain of salt because the Elcan's lens needed cleaning (I had been shooting in dusty environments, so the lens had a thin layer. The ACOG was out-of-the-box new in these pics). I'm also not great at snapping a picture of a reticle with my cell phone, so I'm fairly inconsistent with getting the "sweet spot." Optically, they are both fantastic.

These better show the SpecterOS's illumination.

Posted: 5/22/2017 6:45:54 PM EDT

[#28]

Update: ELCAN OS4X arrived today, opened the box and it is a large scope. Has a good feel. Very well made, no doubt in the ACOG category or exceeds. I purchase the chevron reticle instead of the cross hair model. Thought long and hard, my ACOGs are chevron, so familiarity played a part in the decision.

EDIT UPDATE: My first impression on the size was deceiving, the kill flash and flip caps made it look larger than it actually is.

Quickly mounted to my LMT MARS rifle, will take it outside tonight and work with the illuminated reticle

Here are a few puctures, will update later with more info and a range report

It shipped with the flip covers and a kill flash, I did not know that was part of the package

Attached File

Attached File

77

Posted: 5/22/2017 11:49:39 PM EDT

[#29]

Holy crap that thing is huge! Is it just me or is that bigger than a SpecterDR?

Posted: 5/23/2017 12:43:57 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Holy crap that thing is huge! Is it just me or is that bigger than a SpecterDR?

View Quote

It does have the kill flash and end flip covers on it. So some what deceiving. My understanding the OS4 is the same housing as the DR without having the 1X capability.

I took the kill flash off along with the flip covers and it is smaller. The down side, and maybe I have not looked close yet, but without the kill flash, the front flip cover will not mount.

The front lens is very close to the end of the scope, some protection is necessary....so if I cannot install the front flip cap, I may, don't curse at me, take the comb out of the kill flash. I don't need it, will never use it.

The scope is as clear as anything I have ever look through. My Trijicon 1-4 Accupower is no where near the clarity as this scope. When the Internet comments say as clear or better than ACOGs, I agree. I have a very high respect for the ACOGs, always will.

77

Posted: 5/23/2017 10:34:32 PM EDT

[#31]

I recently put a MRDS on mine-

Attached File

Posted: 5/27/2017 2:19:28 PM EDT

[#32]

Update: Range Report

Took the new ELCAN to the range this morning. I have it mounted on a LMT MARS rifle.

Set up targets at 25 yards, took five shots with Hornady Match .223, without touching the adjustments I was hitting 1" left and 3" low. Made a right correction, hitting center but 3" low. Took the target out to 100 yards, hitting high about 2" (my data does not agree with this), made two more corrections and on at 100 yards

The scope is great, extremely bright. The only issue, and it is me, without diopter adjustments, the targets are out of focus for me, my eyes are getting bad.

The scope is well balanced, eye relief is good. I shot without the reticle on at first and then tried it with the chevron lit only, as good as or better than my Aimponts. It was very bright this morning, no issues at all, very daylight bright.

I am very pleased with the scope....

77

Posted: 5/30/2017 9:59:42 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
I took the kill flash off along with the flip covers and it is smaller. The down side, and maybe I have not looked close yet, but without the kill flash, the front flip cover will not mount.

The front lens is very close to the end of the scope, some protection is necessary....so if I cannot install the front flip cap, I may, don't curse at me, take the comb out of the kill flash. I don't need it, will never use it.

View Quote

Before you modify the kill flash I believe you can swap the kill flash out for a much shorter part that lets you install the flip cap.

Posted: 5/30/2017 2:25:59 PM EDT

[#34]

Could you tell me what the part number is on both the filter and the flip cap? I can't find that info anywhere, including the importer's website. All ARD's and such are only listed for the DR model.

Posted: 5/30/2017 3:22:14 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
Could you tell me what the part number is on both the filter and the flip cap? I can't find that info anywhere, including the importer's website. All ARD's and such are only listed for the DR model.

View Quote

Gunny,

The Killflash numbers: ARD-SDR, Armament Technology, A1841

Front flip cap: A1870

Rear flip cap: SDR A1869

Easy Going,

I already removed the honey comb, it took me all of 2 seconds...very slight twist with jeweler needle nose pliers. I can reinsert if I wanted. The closest I can describe the honey comb is as light and delicate as a wasp nest, without the wasp of course!!!

Hope this info helps. Armament Technology seems to be the main distributor for the scope and accessories. I have a contact there, IM me and I will give you his name and email. Great guy, talked on the phone for a while when I was deciding on the ELCAN.

77

Posted: 5/30/2017 6:02:49 PM EDT

[#36]

Thanks!

Posted: 5/31/2017 9:05:11 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
Could you tell me what the part number is on both the filter and the flip cap? I can't find that info anywhere, including the importer's website. All ARD's and such are only listed for the DR model.

View Quote

One of the reasons for the lack of OS accessories possibly could be the OS and DR share the same housing...I believe I read somewhere the OS is the DR without the throw lever and 1/4 capability. Looking at the photos and the one DR I did handle, they look identical.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

77

Posted: 7/26/2017 7:40:56 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

Gen 2 levers are adjustable and Gen 1 levers can be upgraded to Gen 2 at the user level fairly easily.

View Quote

Please help with getting the Gen II ARMS levers....I have tried Mounts Solutions, ARMS will not return calls, my ELCAN is loose on all of my rifles, Mounts Plus said it was the rifle rails out of spec, tried on nine of my rifles, all the same feel.

Mounts Solutions does not carry the Gen II levers, said I have to go back to ARMS....viscous circle I am on.

77

Posted: 7/31/2017 5:26:08 AM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

Please help with getting the Gen II ARMS levers....I have tried Mounts Solutions, ARMS will not return calls, my ELCAN is loose on all of my rifles, Mounts Plus said it was the rifle rails out of spec, tried on nine of my rifles, all the same feel.

Mounts Solutions does not carry the Gen II levers, said I have to go back to ARMS....viscous circle I am on.

77

View Quote

You are experiencing the side to side wobble that is caused by the interface between the mount and the scope. It has nothing to do with the rail and it is inherent in the design. The elcan has a reset spring on the bottom and it will pull it back to center but there will always be a bit of wiggle.

Posted: 7/31/2017 8:46:07 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

You are experiencing the side to side wobble that is caused by the interface between the mount and the scope. It has nothing to do with the rail and it is inherent in the design. The elcan has a reset spring on the bottom and it will pull it back to center but there will always be a bit of wiggle.

View Quote

PRYDE,

You are spot on...I did get the upgraded levers, installed them today and the very slight wobble is still there, but I do now have levers that have a much better snap when closing...I have more in the Piston forum, talking about my LMT piston rifle that the scope is mounted on.

Here are some pictures of the best installed, upgraded levers:

Attached File

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another ELCAN Question

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