User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/19/2017 10:07:11 PM EDT
[#1]
There's no way I would spend that kind of money on an Elcan. Too many people have reported issues with them and for 2k, you're easily in Kahles/Swarovski 1-6 territory. Those two scopes absolutely blow the elcan out of the water.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2017 10:12:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's no way I would spend that kind of money on an Elcan. Too many people have reported issues with them and for 2k, you're easily in Kahles/Swarovski 1-6 territory. Those two scopes absolutely blow the elcan out of the water. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2017 10:29:02 PM EDT
[#3]
All good points well taken...
And you are correct, this is a lot of money and my ACOGs are clear as anything. That is why I am asking....for the money and clarity, you cannot beat an ACOG. The ELCAN is different and is unique. And as the video guys are saying, you have to really want this optic with the features. The 1-8 Accupower is also looking good. I have a 1-4 Accupower that is just great. Thanks again for the realistic feedback. 77 |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2017 11:44:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Ive used Elcan for several years on duty/SWAT loved it, never had any issues.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/19/2017 11:58:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Ive used the elcan quite a bit and I dont like it at all. The design is definitely a compromise, it is not like a red dot on the 1x setting you get a very slight amount of magnification. So if youre expecting it to be like an aimpoint at 1x prepare to be disappointed. 4x is nice and the glass is clear. Eye relief seems a little short to me and its a very heavy optic. Your experience might be different.
I like the idea of two in one though. I would like to try the Leupold D-Evo. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 12:48:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Very interesting, looking at a video by Sage Dynamics, Aarom Cowan, he said there two sides of ELCAN owners, you either love it or don't...
Good feedback. 77 |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 6:09:32 AM EDT
[#7]
I have been detoxed, off the kick, while I am sure it is built like a Humvee, there are a lot of good quality scopes with more features and flexibility for less money...
I have one now, a 1-4 Trijicon Accupower. I need to use and enjoy that scope first, less two months old. The 1-8 Accupower looks interesting. There is a excellent discussion on this new scope going on now in this forum... Thanks for the feedback. 77 |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 6:18:44 AM EDT
[#8]
I have the Elcan 1.5/6 on on SCAR17 and an Acog with a doctor optic on the other, I grab the Elcan first
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 7:36:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Elcan glass is beautiful but I hated the mount and external adjustments. It's a pretty heavy monster too. I just couldn't live with these items given the price of the optic.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 10:40:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Get a crack habit. It'll be cheaper.
Lol. In all seriousness they are gtg. Just heavy. For a lot of applications there are lighter optics out there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 12:11:29 PM EDT
[#11]
I never understand the hate for the weight. Compared to most quality variable scopes, by the time you add the weight of mount, the elcan is comparable if not less weight. I loved my elcan and have no issues with eye relief, much better than acog and very fast at 1x.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 4:09:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never understand the hate for the weight. Compared to most quality variable scopes, by the time you add the weight of mount, the elcan is comparable if not less weight. I loved my elcan and have no issues with eye relief, much better than acog and very fast at 1x. This. I love my elcan spectre dr. Phenomenal glass. The reticle tree works. Daylight visible lighting. I like it better than my Nightforce 1-4x...which is a very nice optic in and of itself. Comparable weight but better FOV. Much faster when changing magnifications. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 4:27:05 PM EDT
[#13]
I was fascinated by the ELCAN 1/4X until a user here demonstrated you can't quite run irons through it. So you have an insanely expensive & heavy optic that has less capability than a red dot & a magnifier. I'm sure it's great glass, but @ that price range, you have a LOT of options. Like putting decent glass on your rifle - and buying 3 more rifles.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 6:47:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was fascinated by the ELCAN 1/4X until a user here demonstrated you can't quite run irons through it. So you have an insanely expensive & heavy optic that has less capability than a red dot & a magnifier. I'm sure it's great glass, but @ that price range, you have a LOT of options. Like putting decent glass on your rifle - and buying 3 more rifles. I understand. The 1x is achieve through lenses, just like my Accupower at 1x blurs out the front sight post, not like looking through an Aimpoint... |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 8:40:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was fascinated by the ELCAN 1/4X until a user here demonstrated you can't quite run irons through it. So you have an insanely expensive & heavy optic that has less capability than a red dot & a magnifier. I'm sure it's great glass, but @ that price range,o you have a LOT of options. Like putting decent glass on your rifle - and buying 3 more rifles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 9:27:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Within the distance of 15 yards you can just look through the scope on 1x and use the front sight. Or use the BUIS built into the top of the Spectre Dr. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2017 11:20:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Or spend $1K less, still have great glass, flip down the magnifier, and use the irons out to 300 m through the red dot.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 12:29:14 AM EDT
[#18]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 2:58:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or spend $1K less, still have great glass, flip down the magnifier, and use the irons out to 300 m through the red dot. Apple's and oranges. The Elcan was designed to make hits out to 500m and be useable in CQB. RDS + 3x is the inverse. IMO |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 5:11:28 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or spend $1K less, still have great glass, flip down the magnifier, and use the irons out to 300 m through the red dot. A Red dot/magnifier does not compare to a magnified optic with a real reticle in it. I wouldn't buy the Elcan personally, but it's completely false to say you have more capability with a magnifier setup than any magnified optic. Particularly based on the ability to use what is basically a vestigial sighting system. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 5:19:07 AM EDT
[#21]
I would LIKE to go on an Elcan kick but they won't release their damn Specter HCO holographic sight so that I can buy it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 6:46:10 AM EDT
[#22]
Our team has been using these now for about 1.5 yrs. We have old, turned in mil units through the gov programs. Some of our guys really like them, and some of them really hate them. There isnt too much middle ground here. Ive had a hard time with the eye relief. No matter where I put the thing, I always have some degree of scope shadow unless my head is right up on the gun. Static shooting on the range is fine, but start running around and shooting from weird positions it becomes an issue that slows me down. Also, as these are old units, the glass is scratched up. Not unusable of course, but its definitely something you notice. The FOV however is amazing and cannot be matched in anything Ive shot with. The weight on the other hand is something to get used to. When first issued, we all noticed how freaking heavy they are, especially compared to our old Eotech's. While they are heavy, I ended up buying a VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x last year with a Larue mount. Weighing both, they were really the same between the Elcan and the Leupold/Larue. I was pretty surprised. So now in my quest, Ive been thinking about going back to a red dot...an MRO specifically. I can carry a 3x magnifier with flip mount somewhere in my rig. Most of our work things are inside homes and trailers, which is obviously pretty close range. On one hand having that big heavy Elcan is a bit overkill for what we mainly do. If the mission changes in the briefing stage, or if we know we're going somewhere else, I can always start off with the 3x on the gun. Then again, the etched glass with the ranges make it quite easy to engage either close in, or farther out.....I just feel a lot slower while close in.
Like I said, its user preference. Im still somewhat undecided, but then again I didnt pay for mine. If I was shelling out $2500, Id probably pass. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 1:47:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our team has been using these now for about 1.5 yrs. We have old, turned in mil units through the gov programs. Some of our guys really like them, and some of them really hate them. There isnt too much middle ground here. Ive had a hard time with the eye relief. No matter where I put the thing, I always have some degree of scope shadow unless my head is right up on the gun. Static shooting on the range is fine, but start running around and shooting from weird positions it becomes an issue that slows me down. Also, as these are old units, the glass is scratched up. Not unusable of course, but its definitely something you notice. The FOV however is amazing and cannot be matched in anything Ive shot with. The weight on the other hand is something to get used to. When first issued, we all noticed how freaking heavy they are, especially compared to our old Eotech's. While they are heavy, I ended up buying a VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x last year with a Larue mount. Weighing both, they were really the same between the Elcan and the Leupold/Larue. I was pretty surprised. So now in my quest, Ive been thinking about going back to a red dot...an MRO specifically. I can carry a 3x magnifier with flip mount somewhere in my rig. Most of our work things are inside homes and trailers, which is obviously pretty close range. On one hand having that big heavy Elcan is a bit overkill for what we mainly do. If the mission changes in the briefing stage, or if we know we're going somewhere else, I can always start off with the 3x on the gun. Then again, the etched glass with the ranges make it quite easy to engage either close in, or farther out.....I just feel a lot slower while close in. Like I said, its user preference. Im still somewhat undecided, but then again I didnt pay for mine. If I was shelling out $2500, Id probably pass. This is a fair review and has good info. With respect to the eye relief, I like running my gun with the stock nearly closed. With my face so close to the optic, I have not had any issues with eye relief. YMMV. Within 50 yards or so, nothing is faster than a red dot. I don't think one can really argue that. However, I have yet to see one optic (or combination of optics) that is as flexible and capable as the Spectre Dr. If you don't need/want magnification in a 556 carbine, the Spectre is a poor choice. However, if you want a do it all optic that will allow you to maximize 556 across its entire performance envelope, you won't beat it IMO. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 3:34:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Or if already considering an optic in the ELCAN's price range step up a bit more (ok maybe a bit more than a bit), and get a MK8 CQBSS and have IMO the best LPV ever made.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 7:12:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or if already considering an optic in the ELCAN's price range step up a bit more (ok maybe a bit more than a bit), and get a MK8 CQBSS and have IMO the best LPV ever made. Oh man, this is steep price...$3800 for a Leupold? I thought I was stepping out with $2300 for the ELCAN I looked at a doughnut reticle TA11 yesterday and I really like this model. May be backing away from the ELCAN thoughts... 77 |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 7:15:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The weight on the other hand is something to get used to. When first issued, we all noticed how freaking heavy they are, especially compared to our old Eotech's. Yeah, that's one definite drawback; the SpecterDR is a brick. Weighs as much as a 552 or 558 with two batteries, the laser module, and the G33 magnifier all put together. Without the option of cutting the weight in half and pulling the magnifier off when it's not needed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2017 7:35:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh man, this is steep price...$3800 for a Leupold? I thought I was stepping out with $2300 for the ELCAN I looked at a doughnut reticle TA11 yesterday and I really like this model. May be backing away from the ELCAN thoughts... 77 You can find a better deal than $3, 800. Here's what I payed for mine wth the H27 reticle. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/22/2017 4:52:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can find a better deal than $3, 800. Here's what I payed for mine wth the H27 reticle. http://i68.tinypic.com/2006yl1.png True. And I paid over $1300 less than your purchase price for my FDE Spectre Dr. It was "used" but if that optic spent a single day at the range, I'd be surprised. But to be fair, we are talking apples and oranges to a degree as I didn't want a 1-8x on my 10.5 inch gun to begin with. OP, decide what works best for your needs and give the used marketplace a try if money is a concern. There are deals out there. Many, many folks buy high end optics, stick them in a safe, and then sell them later when some wizzbang new thing comes along. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/22/2017 5:35:18 PM EDT
[#29]
If you have an insanely disposable income go ahead. I would.
If not, shop smart. I don't know dick about Elcans except that I think they look cool. The problem with cool stuff like this.... unless you can put your hands on it and try before you buy it's a gamble. Read reviews for comparisons of cheaper scopes of equal quality or listen to what people say on here. It's the best you can do without throwing money down on something blindly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/22/2017 6:27:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was fascinated by the ELCAN 1/4X until a user here demonstrated you can't quite run irons through it. So you have an insanely expensive & heavy optic that has less capability than a red dot & a magnifier. I'm sure it's great glass, but @ that price range, you have a LOT of options. Like putting decent glass on your rifle - and buying 3 more rifles. Maybe I'm missing something but this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. When do people run irons in conjuction with a magnified scope? Or "through it"? They don't. Why would you think they should? The elcan works like having a 1-4 on your gun. Which as most people pointed out, is very similar in weight. 1x is for close up, 4x is for distance. It's a scope. Not an RDS. If you go with a 1" tube and a lightweight mount, you can find a 1-4 cheaper and lighter. I think one of the leupold models is pretty light. But if you go with a 30mm scope that is very durable and a larue mount, I'm thinking it's going to be similar in weight. Most of those duty 30mm optics are going to be around a pound and then you add the mount. I don't know exactly what the elcan is, but isn't it like 20 ounces? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/22/2017 6:57:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe I'm missing something but this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. When do people run irons in conjuction with a magnified scope? Or "through it"? They don't. Why would you think they should? The elcan works like having a 1-4 on your gun. Which as most people pointed out, is very similar in weight. 1x is for close up, 4x is for distance. It's a scope. Not an RDS. If you go with a 1" tube and a lightweight mount, you can find a 1-4 cheaper and lighter. I think one of the leupold models is pretty light. But if you go with a 30mm scope that is very durable and a larue mount, I'm thinking it's going to be similar in weight. Most of those duty 30mm optics are going to be around a pound and then you add the mount. I don't know exactly what the elcan is, but isn't it like 20 ounces? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was fascinated by the ELCAN 1/4X until a user here demonstrated you can't quite run irons through it. So you have an insanely expensive & heavy optic that has less capability than a red dot & a magnifier. I'm sure it's great glass, but @ that price range, you have a LOT of options. Like putting decent glass on your rifle - and buying 3 more rifles. Maybe I'm missing something but this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. When do people run irons in conjuction with a magnified scope? Or "through it"? They don't. Why would you think they should? The elcan works like having a 1-4 on your gun. Which as most people pointed out, is very similar in weight. 1x is for close up, 4x is for distance. It's a scope. Not an RDS. If you go with a 1" tube and a lightweight mount, you can find a 1-4 cheaper and lighter. I think one of the leupold models is pretty light. But if you go with a 30mm scope that is very durable and a larue mount, I'm thinking it's going to be similar in weight. Most of those duty 30mm optics are going to be around a pound and then you add the mount. I don't know exactly what the elcan is, but isn't it like 20 ounces? Per product catalog: 620 g (1.37lb) |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2017 7:25:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True. And I paid over $1300 less than your purchase price for my FDE Spectre Dr. It was "used" but if that optic spent a single day at the range, I'd be surprised. But to be fair, we are talking apples and oranges to a degree as I didn't want a 1-8x on my 10.5 inch gun to begin with. OP, decide what works best for your needs and give the used marketplace a try if money is a concern. There are deals out there. Many, many folks buy high end optics, stick them in a safe, and then sell them later when some wizzbang new thing comes along. The CQBSS was new when I bought it. To be fair I'm sure they sale for less used as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2017 10:29:48 AM EDT
[#33]
I owned an ELCAN 1/4 for a short period of time. It is a fabulous optic, let no one tell you differently.
Here's the scoop on it. Very clear, precise, great for 4x shooting. The 1X was a true 1X, or the true-est that I have seen and used to date. You're not going to have unlimited relief and odd angle ability like a red dot, but you're also not going to have the blurry dot if you have any kind of astigmatism since it's on etched glass. Why did I sell the ELCAN? I didn't want to have something worth $2k+ in my hands that I would throw around, beat up, drop, etc, that had a limited 3-4 year warranty if I recall? Is it a great kit, yes. It's an even greater kit if someone else is buying it for you and will replace it at the drop of the hat should something bad happen to it. Are the chances of something bad happening to it low.. yes, since it's built like a tank.. BUT, I have busted up some high end optics in my time so I simply couldn't have $2k sitting out on the fence with the possibility that it may be a paperweight after a bad spill or drop in a couple years. Simply put; if you have a money tree, buy an ELCAN. If you don't, there are much wiser options for you to protect your investment on a smaller scale. Right now I'm looking at a 1-4 accupower, and then piggybacking or side mounting a red dot/reflex should I really feel the need to do so. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2017 12:27:13 PM EDT
[#34]
And there was a new generation Elcan announced at Shot.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/710006_New-generation-of-the-ELCAN-SpecterDR-coming-in-2017.html |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2017 5:31:14 PM EDT
[#35]
another option is to combine the benefits of an ACOG for longer range stuff (purpose-built reticle, clear glass, awesome FOV) and the benefits of a red dot (quick, simple, no eye relief, etc) by offsetting the red dot.
I briefly used the ELCAN DR in Afghanistan a few times, and I liked the idea of 1x OR 4x, but it still requires time and one of your hands to switch from one to the other, which is why the Elcans still have the option for mounting a reflex sight on top (which, as with the ACOG, requires chin weld and trying to find the dot). What I have decided is my favorite solution to this question is an ACOG and an offset red dot with a Larue LT724. All that's required to switch sighting systems is to twist the rifle. The red dot is lined up with my eye and the transition is the fastest and easiest of all the options (no manipulation of levers, rings, or flip mounts). With 2 distinct sighting systems on the rifle, I tend to think BUIS are overkill, but if you wanted them, you can still have them and QD the acog if both the ACOG and red dot somehow become inoperable or caked in blood/mud, etc (cowitness doesn't help much if you can't see through the glass anyway). This combo is still lighter and cheaper than the Elcan DR, even if you use a Aimpoint T1 as the red dot. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2017 5:38:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Oh, and something I discovered recently with my ACOG+Burris Fastfire... I shoot both eyes open, and if I twist the rifle counterclockwise (for a righty) as if I had an offset red dot as I discussed above, the fastfire (or RMR, or docter, etc) red dot is in front of my left eye, and superimposed on the target as if by magic. I was super surprised to twist the rifle and see a red dot on the target without breaking my cheekweld. I am right eye dominant, as well.
If you have an ACOG+RMR set up, try twisting the rifle to see if the red dot appears in front of your left eye. I hated the ACOG+RMR setup before since it requires searching frantically for the dot and having no cheek weld. The twist/superimposition is a much better employment of the system, for me, at least, and less expensive/heavy/cumbersome than the ACOG+offset red dot setup I discussed above. Just food for thought. YMMV |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2017 9:05:34 PM EDT
[#37]
I've wondered about a flip off or angle mounted LER scope mounted on the forward rail in front of the red dot.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2017 12:59:54 AM EDT
[#38]
I'm a big fan of the SpecterDR. As far as I know there isn't another sight that works in the same way. From my experience it was 100% reliable and the fit, finish and feel gave me nothing but confidence in it's durability. You will not find better glass in any scope at any price, it is hard to go back to an Aimpoint, the Elcan is like looking through air while all RDS sights suffer clarity issues from the coating applied to the glass.
Big and heavy were two drawbacks that lead me to get rid of it, that and I really wanted a NF 2.5-10x24 but most of all I gave up on the "one rifle to rule them all" idea where the variable optics fit nicely. I never had an issue with the A.R.M.S mount but it wouldn't be my first choice by any stretch. Eye position has to be pretty spot on but I didn't find it to be too challenging. I don't think the zero shift issue has effected any of the sights beyond the early Gen1. If you think it will work for you and you can live with the compromises you have to make, give it a shot. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2017 3:02:00 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a big fan of the SpecterDR. As far as I know there isn't another sight that works in the same way. From my experience it was 100% reliable and the fit, finish and feel gave me nothing but confidence in it's durability. You will not find better glass in any scope at any price, it is hard to go back to an Aimpoint, the Elcan is like looking through air while all RDS sights suffer clarity issues from the coating applied to the glass. Big and heavy were two drawbacks that lead me to get rid of it, that and I really wanted a NF 2.5-10x24 but most of all I gave up on the "one rifle to rule them all" idea where the variable optics fit nicely. I never had an issue with the A.R.M.S mount but it wouldn't be my first choice by any stretch. Eye position has to be pretty spot on but I didn't find it to be too challenging. I don't think the zero shift issue has effected any of the sights beyond the early Gen1. If you think it will work for you and you can live with the compromises you have to make, give it a shot. http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww232/Kyle_OA/Mobile%20Uploads/53a39b9c-d23d-422b-93b5-bb511dca9b7c_zpsptvzhulx.jpg You can absolutely buy better glass than the Elcan, I've already mentioned the MK8 it has better glass. The problems with the Elcan are that; -it only has 4x whereas more modern LPV's have 6-8x -it doesn't have turrets to dial specific elevation and windage adjustments. -it's only means for compensating for range are with a BDC system -the BDC system is set up for the military's M249 not a 16" barreled AR15 therefore it will not match exactly -the BDC system is also set up for military ammo however most civilians myself included aviod military ammo because of it's poor accuracy -BDC systems are poor solution for long range shooting because they do not compensate for different loads, barrel lengths, or atmospheric conditions |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2017 3:37:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can absolutely buy better glass than the Elcan, I've already mentioned the MK8 it has better glass. The problems with the Elcan are that; -it only has 4x whereas more modern LPV's have 6-8x -it doesn't have turrets to dial specific elevation and windage adjustments. -it's only means for compensating for range are with a BDC system -the BDC system is set up for the military's M249 not a 16" barreled AR15 therefore it will not match exactly -the BDC system is also set up for military ammo however most civilians myself included aviod military ammo because of it's poor accuracy -BDC systems are poor solution for long range shooting because they do not compensate for different loads, barrel lengths, or atmospheric conditions I'd say a Mk8 or S&B is as good but I wouldn't say better. I guess it comes down to what and how you plan on using it. I was fine with the intrinsic mount, just like I'm fine with capped turrets on an ACOG. I agree a BDC is never perfect but everything is a compromise and a 4x scope is a poor solution for long rang shooting as well. I found the 5.56 SU-230 reticle to work great with my preferred ammo 62gr Federal Fusion MSR for factory and 62-64gr bonded and FMJ handloads. The 7.62 reticle is a good match for Mk262 if you prefer to shoot that. For me the Elcan did 100% of what an ACOG could and 70% of what an Aimpoint could do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2017 4:14:17 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say a Mk8 or S&B is as good but I wouldn't say better. I guess it comes down to what and how you plan on using it. I was fine with the intrinsic mount, just like I'm fine with capped turrets on an ACOG. I agree a BDC is never perfect but everything is a compromise and a 4x scope is a poor solution for long rang shooting as well. I found the 5.56 SU-230 reticle to work great with my preferred ammo 62gr Federal Fusion MSR for factory and 62-64gr bonded and FMJ handloads. The 7.62 reticle is a good match for Mk262 if you prefer to shoot that. For me the Elcan did 100% of what an ACOG could and 70% of what an Aimpoint could do. I would say the glass is better on the MK8 and the S & B. Especially the MK8 which has a warm tint and produces colors which very vivid, really is something to see. The Elcan's have very good glass but it was distorted slightly near the edges at 4x. The BDC might have matched up with your ammo, when fired though your barrel, at your altitude but that's not to say that the same would work for anyone else. Another problem with BDC's is that if the rifle is not perfectly level and is canted even slightly the BDC system will also be unlevel and the shooter will miss. The best system for long range accuracy is to dial turrets for the exact correction. The Elcans were an improvement on the ACOG but for many reasons they are already showing their age and have been made obsolete by more modern 1-6 and 1-8 LPV's. Newer LPV designs offer more magnification, FFP, moa/mil based reticles, and turrets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2017 12:42:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would say the glass is better on the MK8 and the S & B. Especially the MK8 which has a warm tint and produces colors which very vivid, really is something to see. The Elcan's have very good glass but it was distorted slightly near the edges at 4x. Everyone's eyes are different. On a 1-x any differences aren't going to be as pronounced or matter like they would on a higher magnification scope. The BDC might have matched up with your ammo, when fired though your barrel, at your altitude but that's not to say that the same would work for anyone else. Another problem with BDC's is that if the rifle is not perfectly level and is canted even slightly the BDC system will also be unlevel and the shooter will miss. The best system for long range accuracy is to dial turrets for the exact correction. It's pretty easy to figure out the velocity and BC of whatever ammo you shoot then just plot its trajectory next to the trajectory of whatever was used for the reticle and see how close it is. Plenty of people have been working around BDC reticles in ACOGS for years, its just another compromise. For me with a 4x scope, the accuracy and terminal performance of the ammo I was using, the distances I was planning to shoot and everything else made a BDC reticle a compromise I was willing to make. Scope cant has noting to do with what reticle is used. I agree that dialing for elevation is better for long range accuracy but I never intended to use the Elcan for long range accuracy, again another compromise, this time between the speed of holding and the accuracy of dialing. The Elcans were an improvement on the ACOG but for many reasons they are already showing their age and have been made obsolete by more modern 1-6 and 1-8 LPV's. Newer LPV designs offer more magnification, FFP, moa/mil based reticles, and turrets.Of course the SpecterDr is showing its age, I believe its been around for about a decade. I think it's laughable for you to say the SpecterDR has been made obsolete by newer 1-x variables. You need to realize there are different tools for different jobs and stop comparing everything to your CQBSS. The OP asked about the 1/4x Elcan, I can't think of anyone that would be cross shopping the Elcan 1/4x and the CQBSS 1.1-8x for the same rifle(ETA: Maybe a SCAR-H), the two have some overlapping capabilities but they are apples and oranges. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2017 3:22:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone's eyes are different. On a 1-x any differences aren't going to be as pronounced or matter like they would on a higher magnification scope. No the glass just wasn't as clear around the edges as it was in the center. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2017 10:51:22 PM EDT
[#44]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2017 3:57:07 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the items brought up above is the fact that if you have a LPV scope, chances are you will use it on the min and max settings...case in point: I recently purchased a Trijicon Accupower 1-4 scope. I can tell you right now I will never use 2 or 3X settings or anything in between. The past outings the scope was on 4X most of the time with some close shooting at 1X. With that being said, the idea of either 1 or 4X makes a lot of sense to me. Since I started this thread, I have been looking at the ELCANs more and more. I am also telling myself I can get an ACOG and an Aimpoimt M4, both with Larue mounts less than an ELCAN. But that scope just looks and from what I read performs so damn good, I would like to put my hands on one, would hate to purchase without ever handling. I have done this on a few things in the last that ended up good, but do not want to risk on a $2300 scope. I am 50 miles from Sport Optics, great online store and with all of the high end stuff they have, SO doesn't carry ELCAN. I am in no hurry to buy, I have other projects keeping me busy, but want to have something for the LMT MARS rifle by June. My plans for the MARS: Harris/Larue bipod (yes I changed from the original post) MBT trigger, scope and mount and my Omega suppressor. Should be a great set up. Similar to GreenGooses rifle above 77 |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2017 2:59:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the items brought up above is the fact that if you have a LPV scope, chances are you will use it on the min and max settings...case in point: I recently purchased a Trijicon Accupower 1-4 scope. I can tell you right now I will never use 2 or 3X settings or anything in between. The past outings the scope was on 4X most of the time with some close shooting at 1X. With that being said, the idea of either 1 or 4X makes a lot of sense to me. Since I started this thread, I have been looking at the ELCANs more and more. I am also telling myself I can get an ACOG and an Aimpoimt M4, both with Larue mounts less than an ELCAN. But that scope just looks and from what I read performs so damn good, I would like to put my hands on one, would hate to purchase without ever handling. I have done this on a few things in the last that ended up good, but do not want to risk on a $2300 scope. I am 50 miles from Sport Optics, great online store and with all of the high end stuff they have, SO doesn't carry ELCAN. I am in no hurry to buy, I have other projects keeping me busy, but want to have something for the LMT MARS rifle by June. My plans for the MARS: Harris/Larue bipod (yes I changed from the original post) MBT trigger, scope and mount and my Omega suppressor. Should be a great set up. Similar to GreenGooses rifle above 77 I've owned LPV scoped before and I found what you said to be mostly true. The Mk6 I had I would sometimes find a middle ground because the FOV on 6x was too small to quickly find targets. Just be patient and wait for a good deal on one through the EE. You will be able to turn around and sell it for somewhere between a small loss and a small gain. I think I made a couple hundred on the one I had but it was the SU-230 version so not as common. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2017 4:53:44 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm with you guys. I have used 2 scopes quite a bit and on my 2 x 7 I never use anything other than 2 or 7 and on my 3x9 I never use anything other than 3 or 9. BUT, I have not used them hunting. When I hunted deer it was either irons a fixed power 4x. Which neither were ideal for all circumstances. A 1-4 would've been much more useable for hunting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2017 5:02:51 PM EDT
[#48]
If you really want to get an Elcan, save up for a used 1-4x SU-230 or the 1.5-6x version. Both have the SOCOM reticle which is finer than the commercial model. I do like the bigger objective and eye, but money doesn't grow on trees.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/2/2017 7:38:56 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been detoxed, off the kick, while I am sure it is built like a Humvee, there are a lot of good quality scopes with more features and flexibility for less money... I have one now, a 1-4 Trijicon Accupower. I need to use and enjoy that scope first, less two months old. The 1-8 Accupower looks interesting. There is a excellent discussion on this new scope going on now in this forum... Thanks for the feedback. 77 Good thinking |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/3/2017 5:09:53 AM EDT
[#50]
Also love my ELCAN. I run the 1-3-9x, 1-4x and 1.5-6x on my ARs.
Also on another note; The ELCAN holo sight SPECTER HCO is now officially dead. Got that directly from ELCAN at IDEX. Reason were disputes with Elite Defense. It seems they announced it waaay to early and ELCAN was not happy about it. Technically, it is there but politics killed it for good.... http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150528/tct4667f.jpg http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150528/temp/x2v8kwc3.jpg |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
