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Posted: 8/10/2016 9:51:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Short Dot or an ACOG.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:08:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Leupold VX-6 with Firedot SPR reticle?
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:14:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Leupold VX-6 with Firedot SPR reticle? I was about to say the same thing, I would have bought one already if they had the tmr reticle. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:16:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Leupold VX-6 with Firedot SPR reticle? How are they durability wise? Glass quality? Illumination brightness? I've looked at them somewhat, but I'm not too familiar with the VX-6 line. It'd be really nice if you've used both the Razor and the VX-6 so I can get a true comparison. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:24:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Seeing good things about the Steiner 1-5x LPV as well, any opinions on how it compares to the Vortex?
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:36:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Eurooptic has the Kahles k16i on sale for $1750 now. Great price.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:39:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Also want to check out the Leupold Mk6, if you want FFP.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:50:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also want to check out the Leupold Mk6, if you want FFP. Not really concerned about FFP. I never use anything but min and max magnification with my LPVs, so I have no need for ranging at intermediate power levels. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 10:50:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eurooptic has the Kahles k16i on sale for $1750 now. Great price. Damn, I'll have to check that out. ETA: How is the eyebox between the K16i and the Razor. When I handled the Razor, it was one of the main features that I picked up on, the eyebox is super forgiving (tight eyeboxes were one of my main gripes with the LPVs I've used in the past). Are they comparable or is one better than the other? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 11:28:01 PM EDT
[#10]
They're very close with the edge going to the Kahles. The Vortex would be 90 and the Kahles and Swarovski would be 100.
The exception is that I thought the Vortex Razor illumination was brighter than the Kahles K16i SM1. I don't know how the G4B reticle illumination compares. The Swarovski Z6i illumination is the brightest of them all. Also, you should take into account the warranty and repair work. When I had to get my Z6i worked on, it had to go back to Austria, which took weeks. Vortex CS sets the standard for everyone else, IMO. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 1:19:48 AM EDT
[#11]
This may help
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Posted: 8/11/2016 6:54:59 AM EDT
[#12]
The Leupold Firedot BDC 1-6 is very nice. True 1x. Day light visible firedot. Light. and on sale at various places. like Euro-Optics
Two cautions though. The reticule lines are thick which is great for visibility run-n-gunning and standing. The BDC lines up well with M193 and 16inch barrel with a wind of 2.5 MPH, using Strelock. The scope feels robust and if you are a set 'em and forget 'em turret user, it would work out well for you. At the sale price, I think the scope is properly priced compared to others. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 8:37:33 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryFrom Supersets video description: Lastly, my plans are for this to be my final review video. So, no other plans for the channel. Many thanks for watching and wishing everyone the best. See you guys on the range!  
Noooooooooooo |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 10:17:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Leupold Firedot BDC 1-6 is very nice. True 1x. Day light visible firedot. Light. and on sale at various places. like Euro-Optics Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Leupold Firedot BDC 1-6 is very nice. True 1x. Day light visible firedot. Light. and on sale at various places. like Euro-Optics Yours is daylight bright? I could barely see mine at noon. My buddy's is the same way. I called Leupold CS and they didn't know anything so I just sent it in to have them look at it. Quoted:
Noooooooooooo It's been a great run. 
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Posted: 8/11/2016 7:53:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yours is daylight bright? I could barely see mine at noon. My buddy's is the same way.
I called Leupold CS and they didn't know anything so I just sent it in to have them look at it. Yes. The color was not a deep green color when it's turned up. The color was more pale greenish. If you were aiming at whiteish - greenish targets, I could see the firedot blending in. Against black and dark targets, you can see it very clearly. Did you use the battery Leupold supplied or your own? I used my own. Perhaps, their batteries were in the box too long. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 11:31:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Kahles K6i
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Posted: 8/11/2016 11:33:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seeing good things about the Steiner 1-5x LPV as well, any opinions on how it compares to the Vortex? I own both. Very very comparable. Illumination is brighter on the razor but the Steiner has NV settings on the low end which is nice. Glass, slight edge to vortex. Weight , big edge to Steiner. Turrets, huge edge to vortex. Durability? I don't know they have both survived a lot of 3-gun with perfect zero retention. I can't afford to torture test 1k optics. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 11:44:35 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yours is daylight bright? I could barely see mine at noon. My buddy's is the same way. I called Leupold CS and they didn't know anything so I just sent it in to have them look at it. It's been a great run. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Leupold Firedot BDC 1-6 is very nice. True 1x. Day light visible firedot. Light. and on sale at various places. like Euro-Optics Yours is daylight bright? I could barely see mine at noon. My buddy's is the same way. I called Leupold CS and they didn't know anything so I just sent it in to have them look at it. Quoted:
Noooooooooooo It's been a great run. Enjoyed all your reviews, some of the best out there, hopefully you'll be back. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 1:42:21 PM EDT
[#19]
I'd absolutely jump on that Kahles deal
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Posted: 8/12/2016 10:26:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yours is daylight bright? I could barely see mine at noon. My buddy's is the same way. I called Leupold CS and they didn't know anything so I just sent it in to have them look at it. It's been a great run. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Leupold Firedot BDC 1-6 is very nice. True 1x. Day light visible firedot. Light. and on sale at various places. like Euro-Optics Yours is daylight bright? I could barely see mine at noon. My buddy's is the same way. I called Leupold CS and they didn't know anything so I just sent it in to have them look at it. Quoted:
Noooooooooooo It's been a great run. Snap! Your reviews will be missed, but thanks for everything that you have done! |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 11:28:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Short Dot . . . The Short Dot LE is one of the finest LPV scopes currently available, but unfortunately, lightweight it is not. 
Weighing In 
Trijicon TR24 with LaRue SPR-E mount: 1 pound, 6 ounces Aimpoint M4S combined with Aimpoint 3X magnifier, both in LaRue mounts: 1 pound 6.8 ounces NightForce 1- 4 x 24 NXS with LaRue SPR-S mount: 1 pound, 7.5 ounces Schmidt & Bender Short Dot LE with a LaRue SPR-E mount: 1 pound, 11.1 ounces ... |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 12:30:07 AM EDT
[#22]
Well, thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to give the Razor a shot to start off. If it's not to my liking weight wise, I'll probably flip it and give something else a go.
Any preferences on the Razor reticles? I'm leaning heavily towards the VMR-2 MRAD or MOA. I'd like to decide though, probably order as soon as my TA31RCO sells. 
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Posted: 8/13/2016 12:48:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to give the Razor a shot to start off. If it's not to my liking weight wise, I'll probably flip it and give something else a go. Any preferences on the Razor reticles? I'm leaning heavily towards the VMR-2 MRAD or MOA. I'd like to decide though, probably order as soon as my TA31RCO sells. I still need more range trips with my razor 1-6x but I feel like it's slightly better balanced and about the same weight as my eotech g33 combo on my block ii. |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 1:07:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any preferences on the Razor reticles? I'm leaning heavily towards the VMR-2 MRAD or MOA. I'd like to decide though, probably order as soon as my TA31RCO sells. Personally, I keep coming back to the simple JM1 BDC due to its ease of remembering the drops at 200, 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards for my ammo. I tend to only shoot 55grs nowadays. But, If you want to shoot further out or use the scope for something other than 223, I think the MRADs the better option. |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 1:13:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to give the Razor a shot to start off. If it's not to my liking weight wise, I'll probably flip it and give something else a go. Any preferences on the Razor reticles? I'm leaning heavily towards the VMR-2 MRAD or MOA. I'd like to decide though, probably order as soon as my TA31RCO sells. JM-1 is the heat. |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 1:24:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Personally, I keep coming back to the simple JM1 BDC due to its ease of remembering the drops at 200, 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards for my ammo. I tend to only shoot 55grs nowadays. But, If you want to shoot further out or use the scope for something other than 223, I think the MRADs the better option. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any preferences on the Razor reticles? I'm leaning heavily towards the VMR-2 MRAD or MOA. I'd like to decide though, probably order as soon as my TA31RCO sells. Personally, I keep coming back to the simple JM1 BDC due to its ease of remembering the drops at 200, 300, 400, 500, and 600 yards for my ammo. I tend to only shoot 55grs nowadays. But, If you want to shoot further out or use the scope for something other than 223, I think the MRADs the better option. Playing around in Strelok, it seems the JM-1 would be a lot more simplistic.......I'll mainly be shooting M193 through the gun this will sit on anyway. Decisions, decisions.....
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Posted: 8/13/2016 1:35:35 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to give the Razor a shot to start off. If it's not to my liking weight wise, I'll probably flip it and give something else a go. Any preferences on the Razor reticles? I'm leaning heavily towards the VMR-2 MRAD or MOA. I'd like to decide though, probably order as soon as my TA31RCO sells. The JM reticle. 
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Posted: 8/13/2016 11:05:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Why would you get the razor to then probably flip it? Is it a price issue against the others by not going with a Kahles offering? I never see these for sale on the EE meaning buyer is satisfied.
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Posted: 8/13/2016 2:47:35 PM EDT
[#29]
The razor has nothing going for it over the Kahles, apart from price. And with Eurooptics Kahles sale, even that is negated. Buy once, cry once.
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Posted: 8/13/2016 5:22:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you get the razor to then probably flip it? Is it a price issue against the others by not going with a Kahles offering? I never see these for sale on the EE meaning buyer is satisfied. Well, I won't necessarily flip it. My only concern is weight. So as long as it doesn't both me too badly, I'll be keeping the Razor. It's also an issue of price with the Kahles. I don't really know how long Euro Optic will have it on sale and I probably won't have the remainder of the cash needed for another month or so. Also, I'm getting a decent .mil discount on the Razor, so they aren't as close in price. |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 5:26:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The razor has nothing going for it over the Kahles, apart from price. And with Eurooptics Kahles sale, even that is negated. Buy once, cry once. lol I understand and fully embrace the "buy once, cry once" philosophy, but were not comparing an NcStar RDS to an Aimpoint here. Both the Vortex and Kahles are quality scopes that will function as advertised. I still haven't bought one yet, so I guess we'll see which direction I go, but I won't be all that concerned if I decide on the Vortex. |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 5:39:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol I understand and fully embrace the "buy once, cry once" philosophy, but were not comparing an NcStar RDS to an Aimpoint here. Both the Vortex and Kahles are quality scopes that will function as advertised. I still haven't bought one yet, so I guess we'll see which direction I go, but I won't be all that concerned if I decide on the Vortex. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The razor has nothing going for it over the Kahles, apart from price. And with Eurooptics Kahles sale, even that is negated. Buy once, cry once. lol I understand and fully embrace the "buy once, cry once" philosophy, but were not comparing an NcStar RDS to an Aimpoint here. Both the Vortex and Kahles are quality scopes that will function as advertised. I still haven't bought one yet, so I guess we'll see which direction I go, but I won't be all that concerned if I decide on the Vortex. Lets see. weight-kahles glass-kahles field of view-kahles reticle options-kahles integrated cat tail-kahles daylight bright-both price-vortex a few hundred cheaper. Had both, sold the vortex. You asked, man. Just trying to help. Do what you like, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call them equal scopes. |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 5:48:38 PM EDT
[#33]
The trijicon TR25 is what I would say. Glass is outstanding plenty of eye relief, and it's very light compared to the VCOG or Razor. I have two TR24's, one with the green triangle and one with the german crosshairs and green dot. The german is great for 3 gun but the dot is small so it's not super bright at night, however the triangle is bright at night super fast up close and I've made hits on 4 inch plates at 200 yds with it. On the TR25 I believe the triangle is under 3MOA in size. The accupoints are also very durable, I'm thinking about trading in my german crosshair one in for a tr25 with green triangle.
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Posted: 8/13/2016 5:49:49 PM EDT
[#34]
The trijicon TR25 is what I would say. Glass is outstanding plenty of eye relief, and it's very light compared to the VCOG or Razor. I have two TR24's, one with the green triangle and one with the german crosshairs and green dot. The german is great for 3 gun but the dot is small so it's not super bright at night, however the triangle is bright at night super fast up close and I've made hits on 4 inch plates at 200 yds with it. On the TR25 I believe the triangle is under 3MOA in size. The accupoints are also very durable, I'm thinking about trading in my german crosshair one in for a tr25 with green triangle.
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Posted: 8/13/2016 7:27:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lets see. weight-kahles glass-kahles field of view-kahles reticle options-kahles integrated cat tail-kahles daylight bright-both price-vortex a few hundred cheaper. Had both, sold the vortex. You asked, man. Just trying to help. Do what you like, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call them equal scopes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The razor has nothing going for it over the Kahles, apart from price. And with Eurooptics Kahles sale, even that is negated. Buy once, cry once. lol I understand and fully embrace the "buy once, cry once" philosophy, but were not comparing an NcStar RDS to an Aimpoint here. Both the Vortex and Kahles are quality scopes that will function as advertised. I still haven't bought one yet, so I guess we'll see which direction I go, but I won't be all that concerned if I decide on the Vortex. Lets see. weight-kahles glass-kahles field of view-kahles reticle options-kahles integrated cat tail-kahles daylight bright-both price-vortex a few hundred cheaper. Had both, sold the vortex. You asked, man. Just trying to help. Do what you like, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call them equal scopes. Sorry if I came off a little snarky, not how I intended that to appear. I definitely see your points and I'm seriously mulling it over, won't have the funds for another day or two, so I have a little time to think it over. Thanks for the advice!
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Posted: 8/14/2016 9:46:07 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry if I came off a little snarky, not how I intended that to appear. I definitely see your points and I'm seriously mulling it over, won't have the funds for another day or two, so I have a little time to think it over. Thanks for the advice! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The razor has nothing going for it over the Kahles, apart from price. And with Eurooptics Kahles sale, even that is negated. Buy once, cry once. lol I understand and fully embrace the "buy once, cry once" philosophy, but were not comparing an NcStar RDS to an Aimpoint here. Both the Vortex and Kahles are quality scopes that will function as advertised. I still haven't bought one yet, so I guess we'll see which direction I go, but I won't be all that concerned if I decide on the Vortex. Lets see. weight-kahles glass-kahles field of view-kahles reticle options-kahles integrated cat tail-kahles daylight bright-both price-vortex a few hundred cheaper. Had both, sold the vortex. You asked, man. Just trying to help. Do what you like, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would call them equal scopes. Sorry if I came off a little snarky, not how I intended that to appear. I definitely see your points and I'm seriously mulling it over, won't have the funds for another day or two, so I have a little time to think it over. Thanks for the advice! No, your point is valid. You won't be "crying once" if you end up with the razor. As you said, just an old adage we throw around. I stand by my words that the Kahles is superior, though. Good luck and let us know how it goes! |
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Posted: 8/14/2016 1:35:31 PM EDT
[#37]
I disagree. The Razor fits all the criteria the OP has outlined.
OP have you actually looked thru a Razor 1x6 ? You will be impressed. The field of view and clarity is amazing. I use mine for 3 Gun and on 1x the illuminated reticle is an excellent red dot with both eyes open. I have no need for irons. Even in full daylight you can see the red dot. I suggest you go to a sporting goods store or gun shop that has these in stock and look thru them and compare. You'll be pleased with the Razor, it's only trade off is the weight but you asked for bomb proof and that's the cost. |
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Posted: 8/14/2016 2:20:07 PM EDT
[#38]
I went with this
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Posted: 8/14/2016 7:54:02 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 8/14/2016 11:55:27 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 8/17/2016 1:12:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Looks like a great choice.
Interested to know if you looked at: Nightforce Steiner Meopta |
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Posted: 8/17/2016 1:56:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wise man. Quote HistoryFWIW! The vortex glass is every bit as good as the Kahles to my eyes. I have a friend who shoots 3gun on a JP rifle and he uses the Razor because he doesn't mind the added weight. EDIT: I spoke to a Nightforce CS rep about my ATACR a few months ago and he said NF has gotten numerous requests for a 1-6 and 1-8 optic with true 1x on the bottom end. |
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Posted: 8/17/2016 2:13:54 PM EDT
[#43]
My experience apparently doesn't match up with anyone else's, but I really wasn't impressed with the Kahles and sold it after less than a week. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice scope, just didn't think the hype and price are anywhere near to the actual product that I had in my hands.
My main complaint was that I couldn't get a consistently flat image across the magnification range - I'd play with the focus to get it looking good at 1x, but as soon as I'd change to 6x or something in between, I'd have to do it all over again. The glass was pretty good, but I put it side by side with a Leupold VX-2 and the Leupold had a much brighter image and at least as much clarity. I called in my father-in-law to evaluate because he's had a variety of really nice, high-end European optics over the years. Without prompting, I had him compare the Leupold and the Kahles side-by-side and he said he thought the Leupold was brighter and at least as clear. I asked him how much he thought the Kahles cost, and he guessed $300. To be fair, the illuminated reticle (SM1) is fantastic and probably unequaled by any other scope on the market, the mechanical functions were like butter - except the cattail, which was much too small to be useful in my opinion - and the finish was fantastic. Replaced it with a Meopta ZD Tactical 1-4x that cost half as much - I lost 2x zoom and don't like the reticle as much for precision work, but I think the Meopta is optically superior, the illumination is even brighter than the Kahles, and the reticle is probably superior for my purposes (3 Gun). My two cents. Clearly I'm the odd man out on this one since I have yet to read a poor word about the scope from anyone else - which is why I bought it in the first place - but without a doubt, one of the more disappointing purchases I've ever made. At least I managed to get my money back on it. |
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Posted: 8/17/2016 2:15:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW! The vortex glass is every bit as good as the Kahles to my eyes. I have a friend who shoots 3gun on a JP rifle and he uses the Razor because he doesn't mind the added weight. EDIT: I spoke to a Nightforce CS rep about my ATACR a few months ago and he said NF has gotten numerous requests for a 1-6 and 1-8 optic with true 1x on the bottom end. Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW! The vortex glass is every bit as good as the Kahles to my eyes. I have a friend who shoots 3gun on a JP rifle and he uses the Razor because he doesn't mind the added weight. EDIT: I spoke to a Nightforce CS rep about my ATACR a few months ago and he said NF has gotten numerous requests for a 1-6 and 1-8 optic with true 1x on the bottom end. There are a TON of guys using the Vortex that could easily afford the Kahles. Wish Nightforce would get in the daylight-bright LPVO game - I'm surprised they haven't yet. |
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Posted: 8/17/2016 5:08:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Leupold VX-6 with Firedot SPR reticle? pretty much what op called for |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 3:36:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Well, I ended up picking up a Razor 1-6x. The weight didn't end up being all that bad, surprisingly enough. I think the majority of the weight in the Razor seems to be towards the ocular lens while all the weight in the VCOG was towards the objective end. Seems to make for a much better balancing rifle.
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Posted: 8/23/2016 4:17:57 PM EDT
[#47]
That is really nice Jeff. How much does it weigh now?
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Posted: 8/23/2016 4:23:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is really nice Jeff. How much does it weigh now? When it had the TA31 on there, the rifle weighed 8lbs 4.2oz unloaded. It now weighs 9lbs 5.4oz unloaded. So gained about 17oz. with the new scope. Still under 10lbs, so I'm happy. |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 4:45:10 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When it had the TA31 on there, the rifle weighed 8lbs 4.2oz unloaded. It now weighs 9lbs 5.4oz unloaded. So gained about 17oz. with the new scope. Still under 10lbs, so I'm happy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is really nice Jeff. How much does it weigh now? When it had the TA31 on there, the rifle weighed 8lbs 4.2oz unloaded. It now weighs 9lbs 5.4oz unloaded. So gained about 17oz. with the new scope. Still under 10lbs, so I'm happy. Is that scope black or is that a camera trick? |
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Posted: 8/23/2016 5:00:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that scope black or is that a camera trick? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That is really nice Jeff. How much does it weigh now? When it had the TA31 on there, the rifle weighed 8lbs 4.2oz unloaded. It now weighs 9lbs 5.4oz unloaded. So gained about 17oz. with the new scope. Still under 10lbs, so I'm happy. Is that scope black or is that a camera trick? Nope, it's the standard Vortex Razor tan/FDE/brown color. |
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