User Panel
Posted: 5/22/2016 10:34:06 AM EDT
I'd like to hear some opinions and or pics of these three scopes.
The Razor is the most expensive, but I'll be looking for used, so the difference will lessen. Daytime bright is important to me, a precise center dot, and having a BDC. Glass clarity and brightness is also something I'm looking for. I don't beat up my stuff, and all three seem to be durable based on other reports. I like the Leupold reticle the best, and the Razor reticle the least. Weight not really a factor. |
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[#2]
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[#3]
I thought the Steiner had a slightly different reticle the 3TR 5.56?
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[#4]
I've been looking at all three of those myself. Going by your screen name I'm thinking that this is a gamer optic you're shopping for. The Razor is huge at matches and many serious shooters have that optic on the top. That uncluttered JM-1 reticle is a great 3gun type reticle, it's not made for precision long range but rather damn fast minute of man / USPSA target. Built like a tank but crazy heavy to match. Would love one but at $1399 most places with a once in a while 10% off still brings that optics street price down to $1259 for most of us mere mortals. I wish that I could find it less expensive somewhere new and I might consider this one for myself. So the weight and cost have pushed it down my own list except I keep coming back because the glass is beautiful and I really like the reticle for 3 gun.
The Steiner T5Xi is another quality piece but I have never held one, but they always get great reviews, check out the Hide for more solid info too. The Leupold is probably what I will end up with since it hits the sweet point for me as to a street price. I will go with the new FireDot Multi-Gun reticle. There are always other optics to consider. I looked hard at the Trijicon Accupower with the segmented circle RS25 which I liked the reticle but wanted a little more magnification than 4X. The Accupoint 1-6 was also on the short list but I did not like the reticle selection. Burris has a new XTR ii 1-8 that was released at SHOT this year, but they haven't been able to pull the trigger and release it after a number of date pushbacks and I'm sick of waiting personally. If you want to jump in deeper there is always the Swarovski Z6i and the soon to be released 1-8 but both of those will send me to my grave after the wife kills me for spending all of the kids inheritance. The Kahles is in the same boat - would love to own one but not willing to depart with that much cash today. I'm trying to make this same class of optic purchase this week. Just wish I could find the right combination of glass quality, reticle and price to make the actual jump. Saw that DVOR is having a sale on the Athlon optics. There is a Cronus 1-6 that gets good praise, just not that comfortable with Athlon at this point to drop over a grand on that optic, but it does get high praises. Will be curious as to which optic you end up with on top of your rifle. Maybe you could tell us a little more about how you plan on using it? Good luck with your decision. If anyone knows of any great prices on optics this week, I'm very open to a PM. Kind of like tools for me. I want good stuff but not owned by any vendor. If the DeWalt stuff is on sale today I will buy yellow, if the best deal is on Milwaukee tools I will use those or if they are giving away Makita today, that will do fine too. I think any of the scopes that you are considering will do the job and do it well, it's just a matter of finding a deal (for me) that fits my budget at the time that I am willing to depart with my cash. Good luck on finding your perfect optic. |
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[#5]
There is a Burris XTR 2 1-5 on Amazon right now for under $700 with free shipping. Superset has given it a good review it is a little heavy at 21 oz (close to the razor but half the price). I do have the Razor and can say it's a great optic but does require the Aero mount because of the weight. The Steiner is probably worth better consideration if you can find it for $1k lightly used.
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[#6]
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[#7]
Quoted: There is a Burris XTR 2 1-5 on Amazon right now for under $700 with free shipping. Superset has given it a good review it is a little heavy at 21 oz (close to the razor but half the price). I do have the Razor and can say it's a great optic but does require the Aero mount because of the weight. The Steiner is probably worth better consideration if you can find it for $1k lightly used. View Quote |
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[#8]
Quoted: I've been looking at all three of those myself. Going by your screen name I'm thinking that this is a gamer optic you're shopping for. The Razor is huge at matches and many serious shooters have that optic on the top. That uncluttered JM-1 reticle is a great 3gun type reticle, it's not made for precision long range but rather damn fast minute of man / USPSA target. Built like a tank but crazy heavy to match. Would love one but at $1399 most places with a once in a while 10% off still brings that optics street price down to $1259 for most of us mere mortals. I wish that I could find it less expensive somewhere new and I might consider this one for myself. So the weight and cost have pushed it down my own list except I keep coming back because the glass is beautiful and I really like the reticle for 3 gun. The Steiner T5Xi is another quality piece but I have never held one, but they always get great reviews, check out the Hide for more solid info too. The Leupold is probably what I will end up with since it hits the sweet point for me as to a street price. I will go with the new FireDot Multi-Gun reticle. There are always other optics to consider. I looked hard at the Trijicon Accupower with the segmented circle RS25 which I liked the reticle but wanted a little more magnification than 4X. The Accupoint 1-6 was also on the short list but I did not like the reticle selection. Burris has a new XTR ii 1-8 that was released at SHOT this year, but they haven't been able to pull the trigger and release it after a number of date pushbacks and I'm sick of waiting personally. If you want to jump in deeper there is always the Swarovski Z6i and the soon to be released 1-8 but both of those will send me to my grave after the wife kills me for spending all of the kids inheritance. The Kahles is in the same boat - would love to own one but not willing to depart with that much cash today. I'm trying to make this same class of optic purchase this week. Just wish I could find the right combination of glass quality, reticle and price to make the actual jump. Saw that DVOR is having a sale on the Athlon optics. There is a Cronus 1-6 that gets good praise, just not that comfortable with Athlon at this point to drop over a grand on that optic, but it does get high praises. Will be curious as to which optic you end up with on top of your rifle. Maybe you could tell us a little more about how you plan on using it? Good luck with your decision. If anyone knows of any great prices on optics this week, I'm very open to a PM. Kind of like tools for me. I want good stuff but not owned by any vendor. If the DeWalt stuff is on sale today I will buy yellow, if the best deal is on Milwaukee tools I will use those or if they are giving away Makita today, that will do fine too. I think any of the scopes that you are considering will do the job and do it well, it's just a matter of finding a deal (for me) that fits my budget at the time that I am willing to depart with my cash. Good luck on finding your perfect optic. View Quote The Burris 1-8 does indeed look great, but based on experience with the XTRII line I would like something with a little brighter glass. Athlon and similar brands are never an option for me. They are a flash in the pan and will likely not be in business in 5-7 years down the road. |
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[#9]
Quoted: I thought the Steiner had a slightly different reticle the 3TR 5.56? View Quote |
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[#10]
Quoted:
I have the Burris and looking for something with a little brighter glass. The Burris XTRII 1-5 is a FANTASTIC scope for the money though, can't find anything even close in that price range. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a Burris XTR 2 1-5 on Amazon right now for under $700 with free shipping. Superset has given it a good review it is a little heavy at 21 oz (close to the razor but half the price). I do have the Razor and can say it's a great optic but does require the Aero mount because of the weight. The Steiner is probably worth better consideration if you can find it for $1k lightly used. What was it you didn't like about the JM BDC reticle? Just out of curiousity, I found myself not liking the look of the reticle based upon web pictures the hold overs looked very small. But they are much easier to pick up looking through the optic. Ranging is probably going to be a pain but the width of the stadias is supposed to be 9 inches at corresponding hold over distance. Trijicons reticles are designed to range using the reticle on the shoulder width of a man at corresponding range to the avg width of 18 inches. I figure I can range by centerline to outer shoulder width (half shoulder width) but we shall see in practice. |
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[#11]
Quoted:
I've seen them for sale with the 5.56 rapid dot: http://www.eurooptic.com/steiner-t5xi-1-5x24-riflescope-556-reticle-mpn-5101.aspx#tab-3 https://www.cstactical.com/steiner-t5xi-1-5x24-rapid-dot-5-56-riflescope View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought the Steiner had a slightly different reticle the 3TR 5.56? http://www.eurooptic.com/steiner-t5xi-1-5x24-riflescope-556-reticle-mpn-5101.aspx#tab-3 https://www.cstactical.com/steiner-t5xi-1-5x24-rapid-dot-5-56-riflescope Try Steiners website here |
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[#12]
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[#15]
I have the Vortex and would not trade it for anything. Brilliant glass, great illumination, and great features. Vortex is a phoenomenal company and I wouldn't choose anything else.
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[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought the Steiner had a slightly different reticle the 3TR 5.56? http://www.eurooptic.com/steiner-t5xi-1-5x24-riflescope-556-reticle-mpn-5101.aspx#tab-3 https://www.cstactical.com/steiner-t5xi-1-5x24-rapid-dot-5-56-riflescope Try Steiners website here |
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[#17]
Get the mrad reticle razor, it it's a much better reticle and you get wind holds too. It is still clean and simple. With the new dope disks you got your drops right there in the cap facing you.
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[#18]
Is the Steiner reticle like the CMR, meaning do the crosshatch lines match the torso width at range?
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[#19]
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[#20]
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[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought the Steiner had a slightly different reticle the 3TR 5.56? http://www.eurooptic.com/steiner-t5xi-1-5x24-riflescope-556-reticle-mpn-5101.aspx#tab-3 https://www.cstactical.com/steiner-t5xi-1-5x24-rapid-dot-5-56-riflescope Try Steiners website here |
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[#22]
Quoted: Placeholder for pics. I've been shooting the T5xi for over a year. Can't say enough good things about it. Will post in depth review once I get home from church, with lots good pictures http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k499/arfcomcvtrpr/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150509_192009_424_zps8f9251ce.jpg So, I got my hands on a T5Xi in October 2014. I am so very happy with it; definitely the highest quality scope I have ever owned. Sold my Trijicon Accupoint 1-4 to purchase this one. Zero retention / tracking - Absolutely no issues. Clicks are super crisp, they move what they say they move, which is .1MRAD/click. Reticle - http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k499/arfcomcvtrpr/SteinerIntactoSPUHR/IMG_3327_zps4e18559b.jpg http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k499/arfcomcvtrpr/SteinerIntactoSPUHR/IMG_3326_zps31564e16.jpg Magnification - THIS IS THE BIG ONE, folks. This scope is TRUE 1x. It is truly as fast as a reflex. 5x is perfect for out to 600; I have rung 600yd IPSC steel with ease with this glass. (IT IS Second Focal Plane), the reticle is BDC to 62gr, and works great with 855 and 855A1, and is within 1.5MOA with M193 and 55gr Speer GDSP. The knob that you turn to select magnification has no binding issues, turns with ease when you want it to move, doesn't turn when you don't want it to turn. Does not need a throw lever or anything, the grip surface is JUST RIGHT. Glass Clarity - I would put this up there with NF, S&B, US Optics...it says Steiner; there is no compromise on optical quality. I am not one to baby my guns. This lives on my truck gun; a 16" Noveske Afghan Recce, and it lives in the back seat of my truck, with no scope covers, no box, no case. It shows wear externally, and I have never had to rezero it. Overall, this thing is bomb-proof, clear, accurate, and fast. Best damn scope I have put my hands on in some time. View Quote |
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[#23]
Just to throw another wrench at you. Eurooptic has some Kahles K16is on sale, bringing it not too much higher than your options. By far the best 1-6 IMO. Especially when it comes to glass clarity.
FWIW, I looked through one next to my steiner and a Razor. I could see a small target at distance with the Kahles that I could not see with the other two. Didn't have time for more detailed optical comparisons, but I felt like that was good enough. |
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[#24]
Quoted: Just to throw another wrench at you. Eurooptic has some Kahles K16is on sale, bringing it not too much higher than your options. By far the best 1-6 IMO. Especially when it comes to glass clarity. FWIW, I looked through one next to my steiner and a Razor. I could see a small target at distance with the Kahles that I could not see with the other two. Didn't have time for more detailed optical comparisons, but I felt like that was good enough. View Quote I know many people love the Kahles and it sounds like it deserves all of the accolades if your pockets are deep, but it isn't just a few dollars more or even just a few hundred more. If you do have deep pockets the Swarovski Z6i should also be on the short list and some good prices are showing up in advance of the Swarovski 1-8 release. |
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[#25]
Not just advertisements, the vortex is brighter and better glass plus more magnification. Steiner is lighter...
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[#26]
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[#27]
I use my vortex 1x6 and love it. Glass is great, daylight bright red dot is also easily seen. I have several high end scopes and it is still the one I come back to time after time when shooting my ar's. I do wish there was a 1x8 but just not at this time. I would be all over that. A bit heavy but built like a tank and what more could you want out of vortex for a warranty? You can also find them almost every day for 1100 or so on the EE.
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[#28]
Quoted:
I've heard the Steiner glass is excellent, have you seen them side by side? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Not just advertisements, the vortex is brighter and better glass plus more magnification. Steiner is lighter... Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. |
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[#29]
Quoted:
Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not just advertisements, the vortex is brighter and better glass plus more magnification. Steiner is lighter... Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. Is the glass worth the extra weight? |
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[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not just advertisements, the vortex is brighter and better glass plus more magnification. Steiner is lighter... Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. Is the glass worth the extra weight? |
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[#31]
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Not just advertisements, the vortex is brighter and better glass plus more magnification. Steiner is lighter... Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. Is the glass worth the extra weight? I honestly Don't know enough about good glass to see much difference, there is a review somewhere of them side by side that the guy says the vortex glass is slightly better but you won't see that difference except for at dusk under certain conditions it will have slightly better resolution. For me the big difference is field of view, and I can't anticipate your needs. I can totally see how someone could prefer the lighter weight faster package.. For me the bigger fov the better and the more I can see the more affective I am so for me it is worth the weight.. But also I have a 12.5" barrel so the weight isn't nothing I can still fling my rifle around. They both have huge fov, you can't go wrong. Jus just small pro's and con's, I mean we're talking about four ounces difference. |
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[#32]
My friend bought one and loves it for what that worth.. I loved it too, my razor is much brighter though. For the same money more or less it seems like a easy descision but Idk.
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[#33]
How much difference in the T5xi and the Kahles K16i is there? I just bought the K16i and wondering if I should return and get the T5xi and pocket the extra cash. The K16i is pretty amazing.
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[#34]
Quoted:
I honestly Don't know enough about good glass to see much difference, there is a review somewhere of them side by side that the guy says the vortex glass is slightly better but you won't see that difference except for at dusk under certain conditions it will have slightly better resolution. For me the big difference is field of view, and I can't anticipate your needs. I can totally see how someone could prefer the lighter weight faster package.. For me the bigger fov the better and the more I can see the more affective I am so for me it is worth the weight.. But also I have a 12.5" barrel so the weight isn't nothing I can still fling my rifle around. They both have huge fov, you can't go wrong. Jus just small pro's and con's, I mean we're talking about four ounces difference. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not just advertisements, the vortex is brighter and better glass plus more magnification. Steiner is lighter... Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. Is the glass worth the extra weight? I honestly Don't know enough about good glass to see much difference, there is a review somewhere of them side by side that the guy says the vortex glass is slightly better but you won't see that difference except for at dusk under certain conditions it will have slightly better resolution. For me the big difference is field of view, and I can't anticipate your needs. I can totally see how someone could prefer the lighter weight faster package.. For me the bigger fov the better and the more I can see the more affective I am so for me it is worth the weight.. But also I have a 12.5" barrel so the weight isn't nothing I can still fling my rifle around. They both have huge fov, you can't go wrong. Jus just small pro's and con's, I mean we're talking about four ounces difference. Meh I already have the Razor which is hefty. I was just trying to determine if it might be worth it to try and sell it in favor of a Steiner to lose weight. But it already is much easier to manage with the AP mount. I put some butler creek caps on it the other day and it seems like they take away from the FOV. I'll have to do some more testing but it did seem like less FOV with them on. |
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[#35]
Try the low profile Vortex flip caps that they sell on their site for the Razor 1-6x.
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[#36]
It doesn't change fov, your talking about the line of sight around the optic it is blocked. The new vortex one is much better and it lays flat.
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[#37]
Quoted: I honestly Don't know enough about good glass to see much difference, there is a review somewhere of them side by side that the guy says the vortex glass is slightly better but you won't see that difference except for at dusk under certain conditions it will have slightly better resolution. For me the big difference is field of view, and I can't anticipate your needs. I can totally see how someone could prefer the lighter weight faster package.. For me the bigger fov the better and the more I can see the more affective I am so for me it is worth the weight.. But also I have a 12.5" barrel so the weight isn't nothing I can still fling my rifle around. They both have huge fov, you can't go wrong. Jus just small pro's and con's, I mean we're talking about four ounces difference. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not just advertisements, the vortex is brighter and better glass plus more magnification. Steiner is lighter... Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. Is the glass worth the extra weight? I honestly Don't know enough about good glass to see much difference, there is a review somewhere of them side by side that the guy says the vortex glass is slightly better but you won't see that difference except for at dusk under certain conditions it will have slightly better resolution. For me the big difference is field of view, and I can't anticipate your needs. I can totally see how someone could prefer the lighter weight faster package.. For me the bigger fov the better and the more I can see the more affective I am so for me it is worth the weight.. But also I have a 12.5" barrel so the weight isn't nothing I can still fling my rifle around. They both have huge fov, you can't go wrong. Jus just small pro's and con's, I mean we're talking about four ounces difference. |
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[#40]
What's the lowest 30mm QD mount that would work with the Vortex?
With a 34mm XTR II mounted in a LT104, I have to raise the comb on a PRS exactly 0.250" to get a proper cheek weld. Using the 1.500” and 0.250" numbers gives me a centerline height of 1.250” over the comb, but I don't think there's an extended mount that low that's not a $400 Spuhr. Is there anything even close to that height, like a 1.300" or 1.350"? |
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[#41]
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[#42]
Quoted:
Are you guys referring to the defender series? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Try the low profile Vortex flip caps that they sell on their site for the Razor 1-6x. Are you guys referring to the defender series? It's the Flip Caps. It's on the Vortex website. Go to the Razor product page under More and Accessories. |
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[#43]
I'm pretty sure only the ocular side has a defender that will fit, so get that! Then get the cheap one for the small side. It is still pretty good and hopefully they will have the small defender soon.
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[#44]
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[#45]
Quoted:
How much difference in the T5xi and the Kahles K16i is there? I just bought the K16i and wondering if I should return and get the T5xi and pocket the extra cash. The K16i is pretty amazing. View Quote You have the Ferrari, Lamborgini, of optics, I know I am on ARFcom but that K16i is a bit too much for me. I have seen the Steiner at about $1,200- $1,400, you have 6x instead of 5x, and you have it in hand, I would keep it. I will have to buy the Steiner, Lupy, Vortex, or Burris I suppose. |
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[#46]
Quoted:
You have the Ferrari, Lamborgini, of optics, I know I am on ARFcom but that K16i is a bit too much for me. I have seen the Steiner at about $1,200- $1,400, you have 6x instead of 5x, and you have it in hand, I would keep it. I will have to buy the Steiner, Lupy, Vortex, or Burris I suppose. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
How much difference in the T5xi and the Kahles K16i is there? I just bought the K16i and wondering if I should return and get the T5xi and pocket the extra cash. The K16i is pretty amazing. You have the Ferrari, Lamborgini, of optics, I know I am on ARFcom but that K16i is a bit too much for me. I have seen the Steiner at about $1,200- $1,400, you have 6x instead of 5x, and you have it in hand, I would keep it. I will have to buy the Steiner, Lupy, Vortex, or Burris I suppose. Better than having to settle for Burris or PA budget line. |
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[#47]
Quoted:
You have the Ferrari, Lamborgini, of optics, I know I am on ARFcom but that K16i is a bit too much for me. I have seen the Steiner at about $1,200- $1,400, you have 6x instead of 5x, and you have it in hand, I would keep it. I will have to buy the Steiner, Lupy, Vortex, or Burris I suppose. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
How much difference in the T5xi and the Kahles K16i is there? I just bought the K16i and wondering if I should return and get the T5xi and pocket the extra cash. The K16i is pretty amazing. You have the Ferrari, Lamborgini, of optics, I know I am on ARFcom but that K16i is a bit too much for me. I have seen the Steiner at about $1,200- $1,400, you have 6x instead of 5x, and you have it in hand, I would keep it. I will have to buy the Steiner, Lupy, Vortex, or Burris I suppose. Yeah I think I'll keep it. It was an impulse buy, I'm selling a rifle and an ACOG that I don't really use to fund it. Would I rather have a Steiner or the Vortex and an extra shotgun? Probably... But it's pretty awesome. |
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[#48]
Quoted: Yeah I think I'll keep it. It was an impulse buy, I'm selling a rifle and an ACOG that I don't really use to fund it. Would I rather have a Steiner or the Vortex and an extra shotgun? Probably... But it's pretty awesome. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How much difference in the T5xi and the Kahles K16i is there? I just bought the K16i and wondering if I should return and get the T5xi and pocket the extra cash. The K16i is pretty amazing. You have the Ferrari, Lamborgini, of optics, I know I am on ARFcom but that K16i is a bit too much for me. I have seen the Steiner at about $1,200- $1,400, you have 6x instead of 5x, and you have it in hand, I would keep it. I will have to buy the Steiner, Lupy, Vortex, or Burris I suppose. Yeah I think I'll keep it. It was an impulse buy, I'm selling a rifle and an ACOG that I don't really use to fund it. Would I rather have a Steiner or the Vortex and an extra shotgun? Probably... But it's pretty awesome. |
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[#49]
Quoted:
Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not just advertisements, the vortex is brighter and better glass plus more magnification. Steiner is lighter... Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. I would say the vortex is definitely better at 1X than the steiner. At max magnification, I actually prefer the steiner. If I were to choose which had the best overall optical package, I would choose the Razor because it's much better at 1x, while only being slightly worse at max mag. I would still say the Kahles on sale is well worth $500 more than these options. Better optically and reticles and huge weight savings. |
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[#50]
Quoted:
Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not just advertisements, the vortex is brighter and better glass plus more magnification. Steiner is lighter... Yes I Have used both alot, the vortex is better. The dot is much brighter and the fov on 1x is just in a different league, the Steiner is really great though.. I'm taking about the American one though idk about the German one. I would say the vortex is definitely better at 1X than the steiner. At max magnification, I actually prefer the steiner. If I were to choose which had the best overall optical package, I would choose the Razor because it's much better at 1x, while only being slightly worse at max mag. I did not think there was a significant weight difference between the two, my Steiner is the German version. I would still say the Kahles on sale is well worth $500 more than these options. Better optically and reticles and huge weight savings. |
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