This is my first post in this intimidating optics section where the price of a rifle triples, and I'm finally ready for the flames for asking about cheap options.  (The FAQ on budget optics was no good.)

Disclaimers:
> I know I will get as much as (or less than) I pay for
> I know buy once cry once
> I know 'just buy an Aimpoint used on the EE'
> For credibility on my experience with cheapness, I own two (2) Hi-Points (C9, 995ts) and a Taurus (PT-111 g2)

On the 995TS I have one of these $20 Field & Sport reflex sights:


After 3 or 4 outings, each shooting 100 or so 9mm rounds down the carbine, the sight started flaking out and became unreliable .  I disassembled and cleaned the contacts with 2000 grit paper and some De-OxIt.  Since then it's worked very well for my piddling around needs.

Once the AR is finally assembled (Faxon barrel ordered yesterday), for starters, I will put the iron sights back on the 995ts and try out this existing reflex sight on the AR.  Maybe it will work OK, maybe the recoil will kill it - I don't know.  There are so many inexpensive reflex sites, and I like the look of this one:


It is probably the exact same circuit as the one I have, but arranged into a different package.  My question:
Are ALL these lower-end red dot reflex sights basically the exact same thing as above, but repackaged/rebranded?
--> TRUGLO
--> Bushnell
--> Burris
-->EOTech (only kind of kidding)

CHAD

In short:  yes.  All the low quality red dots are basically all rebrands of the same stuff.  There are other microdot styles sold by "DaggerDefense" that are the same stuff.  Not very good pieces as I think you've noticed, but I do keep a spare one of these in a box in case I end up buying a rifle and want to shoot it before I get the optic.

So the follow up question is what is the price range next level of quality red dot reflex site?  I read a lot about the Bushnell TRS-25, but I don't like that look.  What do I need to pay to get an EOTech style red-dot that is reliable?

CHAD

I'm kind of feeling that out as well.  I think the answe is somewhere between $100-$200.  I currently use the Primary Arms Advanced red dot.  Bright as all hell, 2 moa dot, and good construction. Costed me about $170 IIRC.


Vortex also has really good stuff for under $200.


Other question, what exactly do you mean by Eotech style?  Technically speaking, eotechs are holographic sights which is a little different from a red dot.  Obviously they also have a distinct look and reticle.

Here's a chinese version of an Eotech, never used it, but it's here.
http://www.amazon.com/Sunvp-Tactical-Optics-Green-Reflex/dp/B016ZPDR8U/ref=sr_1_26?s=sports-and-fitness&ie=UTF8&qid=1461875856&sr=1-26&keywords=red+dot

Yes, the --> one you linked <-- is the style i like (similar to the 2nd pic in my original post).  I don't care for the short tube looking style,but if one is incredibly superior at a low price, then I can be persuaded.  Cheap like under $100.

CHAD

The best budget red dot may be the Bushnell TRS-25.  Around $90-$100 with either the UTG medium (absolute cowitness height) or high (lower 1/3 cowitbess height) riser.  Primary Arms offers a combo deal with either riser.

It is at least not junk and will hold zero and take a little normal handling.  Many users here are quite happy with it.

http://www.primaryarms.com/bushnell-trophy-trs-25-mounts-red-dot-sight/p/kt-bs731303/

choosing a sight based on cheapest price & aesthetics

I think in the end, by the time you are done wasting money on cheap optics you would have had enough money to buy an aimpiont pro.  This is coming from a guy that just bought a PA rgb2 with removable base for $80.  I bought this micro to try before I pony up big bucks on a T1 or H1.  I just wanted to see how the micro rds work for me.

So I guess I'm saying an aimpoint pro is about as cheap as I'd go for a true go to rifle.  Now if it's just going on a range gun / toy that's a different thing.  Experiment all you want on the cheap stuff.

Appreciate this post.  Thank you.

So, 'no' to Vortex?

CHAD

To some my thought process will seem misguided.  But, I assure you, I struggled with a barrel purchase for months.  A $75 Anderson non-CL, a $100 B-TAC, A $110 KAK, A $130 BA, and finally decided on a Faxon pencil because I decided I wanted the lighter weight (aesthetics).  So, be assured I am NOT trying to justify a cheap sight, and then return here proclaiming how it is superior to $500 units.  I am working this process out in my head.  It would be nice if I had a safe full of gold bars.  Chipping off a little piece would be no big deal.  The way it stands, I really, really want to justify each purchase.

Now, what unit meets your 'minimum acceptable' choice of red dot?

CHAD

It is above - TRS-25 for range and general use short of duty grade is decent.  For duty grade the AimPoint PRO is the minimum.

TRS-25 may be the ticket.  Are there any others in the $100-$200 range you have used, like Holosun or Vortex?

CHAD

Not really a fan of the TRS-25. I have one on a 15-22 and it's fine for that I guess but the glass has a funny color to it and not all that clear.

Holosun HS403 is GTG IMO. I just picked up a GL version for $162 something from opticsplanet after coupon. I also have the version with the battery under the optic. It's been fine.

I only have a vortex rifle scope and spotting scope, but vortex is also GTG.

Primary Arms also has a reflex sight http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-red-dot-reflex-sight-with-push-button-controls-parrs02/p/kt-parrs02/
If I was going cheap it would be bushnell, burris or other with a warranty, or Primary Arms because they stand behind their stuff and are site sponsors.

I don't own one yet but from what I have read on this board, the $200 Holosun models work pretty well.

At least we've moved the discussion away from the $50 and under toys that won't hold zero, eat batteries, and break when you look at them the wrong way.

There is a broad spectrum of decent (albeit not duty grade) budget red dots from $100 to $200.  That is where the value is.  I've owned several Lucid red dots (still do), that have performed well in that role, along with the TRS-25.   Primary Arms and now Holosun play well in that range, as well.

But, if OP is looking for something more like his original choice, but which is as reliable as the other entries in the budget price range, I would recommend the little mini-reflex by Burris, its Fastfire 3.

Burris has marketed its Fastfire reflex sights for years to shotgun hunters.  Lots of turkey hunters rely on them.  The FF 3 is the latest iteration and with an appropriate riser will do well on an AR15.  It is daylight bright when needed and has a longer 8 hour shutoff period, making it good for keeping by your bedside with the dot turned on low all night if you can't afford to go duty grade at the moment..  By the time it shuts off, it will be dawn.  Usually priced just over $200 with the riser, its a nice little sight.  If you already have a riser, then you can usually pick it up for just under $200.

I had one on my carbine for several years and liked it.  I've since upgraded to something duty grade, but have moved it to a 12 gauge shotgun.  Still going strong.

Here is a photo as it was on my carbine.

The PA MD ADS would be about as low grade / cheap as I'd go, less than $200 with mount.  They have a pretty good track record.  Watch some of yhe YouTube torture videos.  

You might want to look at the meprolight tru dot rds, about $350.  It is based off the IDF optic.  Only a few minor differences.  Non metal shroud and only spot checked for qc vs 100% qc for the military sight.

Again though, if I needed to depend on something for life or death, the cheapest I personally would go is the Aimpoint Pro.

I'm not saying the other cheaper rds wouldn't hold up.  I'm saying I wouldn't trust my life or my families lives to them.  Especially when the price difference is only $200.

Good luck.

The only budget optics I would touch are Primary Arms. Very high quality for the price.

My original post asked if all of the similar-looking, inexpensive RDS were basically the same.  Because I own a cheap sight on a cheap gun doesn't mean I will necessarily buy a cheap sight for an AR.  But,if a $200 Burris happens to be the exact same innards as a $20 sight, that changes things.  That Burris site is one of the reasons I posted initially because it looks -->almost identical to cheap sights.

I don't mind saving up, I just want to know it's worth it.  I am listening very seriously to this conversation.

CHAD

This, I have 2. I will be buying a 3rd at some point this year.

Quite a few years ago I used to buy cheapo optics, cheapo mounts and cheapo lights. Every bit of it has been literally tossed in the trash after failing or literally falling apart. It really is cheap for a reason. It truly is a hard lesson to learn.

I have owned several Vortex optics (which are lifetime guaranteed by the way) and they all work perfectly. You can save quite a bit by buying a cheapo China clone, but it WILL break in 1 year or less guaranteed. I've never owned a Primary Arms optic, but they are supposedly good to go. I've heard only excellent reviews on the older versions of the Bushnell TRS25, but bad reviews on their newer version. My vote would be for Vortex. They have earned their good reputation. I know a guy that bought a StrikeFire (their 1st version) from a guy and the StrikeFire didn't work. He bought a new battery and it didn't work. He contacted Vortex, sent it to them and he received their newest version in exchange for free no questions asked. That's a real lifetime guarantee.

I saved, bought my 1st Trijicon ACOG and never regretted the purchase (etched, illuminated reticle and no batteries). My wife doesn't even regret it. Everyone that has looked through it says that the clarity & color looks better than what they see with their own eyes. That is what "buy once cry once" means. It is true. Many, if not most here, just aren't all that subtle about explaining why. As long as I replace the $2.00  battery in my Vortex red dots maybe once every 1-2 years then they work every time I pick them up. I just haven't felt the need to spend twice the money on an Aimpoint that only needs a $4.00 battery every 3.4 years or 3-4 times the money to only change the battery once every 5 years.

Maybe one day I'll NEED to pick up one of my weapons and the battery will be dead. Once that day comes then hopefully I will have survived and surely become Aimpoint advocate. That's just how it works.

Similar size.  Similar principles of design.  Radically different and better quality of materials, construction and quality control.  Not the same "innards."

Nor does the Burris FF3 have the same "innards" as the duty grade Leupold DeltaPoint Pro or Trijicon RMR, although they are both mini-reflex sights weighing less than two ounces, and look much like the $20 junk or the $200 FF3.  Those optics, designed to have the reliability and ruggedness needed for military and law enforcement, are more in the $600-$800 range.

No, they are not the same.  $20 reflex might work for a while for airsoft.  $100-$200 gets you something that holds zero, does not fall apart, works at the range and perhaps a carbine course.  $600 or so gets you a mini reflex you can depend on for your life, that of your family or a professional career level of full time use and abuse.  All mini reflexes will look similar and project a diode emitter beam onto a screen to form the dot.  That's about all that is the same.