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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:46:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Specifically, 1-6 and 1-8 power FFP low power variables. None of the top brands (Nightforce, Leupold, Vortex, etc) have released anything in that category in several years. The Mark 8 CQBSS is an excellent optic but heavy. The Leupold Mark 6 is good but really needs the Horus H27D reticle from the CQBSS. Is there anything coming in the near future that would be an improvement over the aforementioned Leupold scopes? I'm wanting another LPVO but I may just settle for the Leupold Mark 6 1-6 with TMR reticle if nothing better comes along soon. Shot my gun with that exact scope tonight. At the range, you don't see a ton of LPVOs. Mostly red dots, a few of the strike eagles and Burris offerings, an ACOG here and there, and lots of the really cheap red dot/ACOGish scopes |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 7:34:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Market saturation at the price point would be my guess.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:05:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Are you only talking about FFP? Seems like for LPVO the SFP variety are more popular. I've been looking a lot for a 3-gun scope, just settled on the Kahles K16i, so I've looked at a LOT of LPVOs lately.
The 1-6x+ FFP LPVOs I've seen lately that I can recall and that stood out are the SWFA, March and USO optics. Bushnell, S&B and Minox also have offerings for FFP LPVOs. The SWFA 1-8x is probably the best value of the bunch by far and gets great reviews, FWIW. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:13:27 AM EDT
[#4]
My defensive rifle has an aimpoint. My hunting/range rifles have optics suiting their intended range I plan on using them at, usually different model ACOGs or higher powered zoom type optics. This doesn't leave a lot of use for LPVs for me. However, if one wants the most flexible optical setup possible, it's hard to argue against a LPV. There's a reason they dominate the competitive field. I wonder if a reason you see them so much, though, is that if one used multiple optics (piggyback/offset red dot) they're placed in open category.
If Trijicon could incorporate their FO reticles with their BDCs, I'd likely switch unless wanting to save weight in which case mini-ACOGs are hard to beat for me as a lightweight all-around. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:50:14 AM EDT
[#5]
they spend allot of money developing them and both Burris and kahles are coming out with 1-8's now. I think most will follow with they're 1-8 next. The mark 6 is a beast, and I think leupold thinks the horus is too much for it's intended range. The cwr is a nice reticle for out to 700 yards of the ar.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 11:39:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Just from a numbers standpoint, my nearest retailer was just telling me that he sells boxes and boxes of the Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x. His closest red dot is the MRO.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 12:03:05 PM EDT
[#7]
I see 1 x 4's all the time at the range (or what I assume are 1 x 4's). I wish Trijicon would have made an Accupower 1 x 6.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 3:27:17 PM EDT
[#8]
I see quite the opposite with LPVOs taking over a large segment of the market.
Then again, I shoot a lot of 3-Gun and it's really the only way to go. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:08:15 PM EDT
[#9]
I will probably never buy an RDS agin. The LPV is more versatile for me. I have a couple of Vortex Razor 1-6x scopes, and although heavy, I don't feel like I give up anything to an Aimpoint or other RDS up close, and the magnification aids greatly in anything distant.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 7:23:54 PM EDT
[#10]
The only reason I can think of is that I don't shoot 3-gun. That's not to say I don't want to add one to the stable (would probably go with the SFWA HD if I bought one today), it would go nicely with my 308 LaRue for hunting at short to medium range. However, for the range, I'd rather have another high power scope like the Tangent Theta 3-15.
My PMII 5-25 S&B will sit on a 6.5 bolt action, but again, a 1-6 would be great for hunting at medium range if I have to walk, because that bastard is heavy. I'll probably get one... but after I get the Tangent Theta. Sole use will be hunting most likely, but I could see it making a home on 556 ARs for range time to do steel out to 500, 250 is sort of my practical limit on steel with RDS. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 8:59:37 PM EDT
[#11]
I wouldn't say they've fallen out of favor. There are still new offerings coming out, like the Eotech Vudu and the Sig's. The manufactures may have slowed down a bit with the new offerings, but they haven't stopped. I think it's just a big investment for them to make, and they appear to all have their quirks, even the top of the line ones.
I don't see them going away anytime soon. As others have said, I have some irons, a red dot, a medium power scope, a fixed 4x, and 1-6x on the 300 blk. My next optic will be a quality LPVO, and after that a higer magnification scope. They all have their places, just depends on the user. |
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Posted: 5/9/2016 8:49:18 PM EDT
[#12]
I've been looking at just this category of optic recently too. Want a 3 gun style optic.
While the MK 6 & 8 are very nice indeed, the VX-6, 1-6 is more in my price range. No one mentioned the Razor HD 1-6, which is a whole lot of optic for the price tag but crazy heavy. Others on the short list are the Trijicon Accupoint 1-6, Steiner T5Xi 1-5 and what is at the top of my wish list is Swarovski Z6i 1-6. Note that Swarovski is releasing a 1-8, but well out of my price range (something like $2800 for you rich fellows). Someone already mentioned the new Burris XTR ii 1-8 but while it was released at SHOT this year it's actual release date has been pushed back AGAIN to July or Aug. There are many good optics out there, you just have to find one in your price range. I really wish that I could visit a store and see them side by side but no place has them in stock. I understand, they are a lot of inventory to just sit there. |
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Posted: 5/9/2016 10:50:17 PM EDT
[#13]
People just parrot what they hear, the vortex is a few ounces more.. And allot better than the competition in its price range. It's a non issue.. Just try one first.
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Posted: 5/9/2016 11:02:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Kahles K16i is probably the cost be damned gold standard now.
At a more modest price the VX-6 1-6x has a lot to offer. The Firedot reticle is amazing. It only weighs 14.6 ounces. |
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Posted: 5/9/2016 11:08:55 PM EDT
[#15]
On a related note, I just saw this video of the Leupold D-EVO showing the transition between that combo vs a 1-6x. Pretty interesting, to say the least.
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Posted: 5/9/2016 11:45:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On a related note, I just saw this video of the Leupold D-EVO showing the transition between that combo vs a 1-6x. Pretty interesting, to say the least.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haLbETNqWtQWhy are they turning the 1-6 back to 1x everytime? Or cranking it up to 6x everytime for the longer shot? You can easily support the EVO hits being greater when you do that. I'm sure you can still hit the up close target leaving it at 6x. Seems a little misleading in support of the EVO. |
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Posted: 5/10/2016 2:58:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On a related note, I just saw this video of the Leupold D-EVO showing the transition between that combo vs a 1-6x. Pretty interesting, to say the least. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haLbETNqWtQI get WHY they're comparing the two but it's not really a fair comparison MRDS and prism vs a tube optic. If they wanted to make a more accurate comparison they would do it with a 45 degree offset MRDS and a variable vs. the DEVO. Plus anyone who knows how to use a variable can make COM hits using just 1x. |
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Posted: 5/10/2016 8:41:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get WHY they're comparing the two but it's not really a fair comparison MRDS and prism vs a tube optic. If they wanted to make a more accurate comparison they would do it with a 45 degree offset MRDS and a variable vs. the DEVO. Plus anyone who knows how to use a variable can make COM hits using just 1x. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
On a related note, I just saw this video of the Leupold D-EVO showing the transition between that combo vs a 1-6x. Pretty interesting, to say the least. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haLbETNqWtQI get WHY they're comparing the two but it's not really a fair comparison MRDS and prism vs a tube optic. If they wanted to make a more accurate comparison they would do it with a 45 degree offset MRDS and a variable vs. the DEVO. Plus anyone who knows how to use a variable can make COM hits using just 1x. Nobody is buying that thing either. |
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Posted: 5/10/2016 9:31:23 AM EDT
[#19]
I think most people are like me -- if you're buying a scope in that power range, FFP doesn't really do anything for you. If you're doing any kind of shooting where you actually need the reticle subtensions to be correct, you will almost certainly be using it on max power anyway. It's the same reason I buy SFP for any scope 10x or less, like a 3-9x. There's just no point in spending extra money for a feature that you don't use, and which just makes the reticle tiny and hard to see on low power.
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Posted: 5/10/2016 1:21:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are they turning the 1-6 back to 1x everytime? Or cranking it up to 6x everytime for the longer shot? You can easily support the EVO hits being greater when you do that. I'm sure you can still hit the up close target leaving it at 6x. Seems a little misleading in support of the EVO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
On a related note, I just saw this video of the Leupold D-EVO showing the transition between that combo vs a 1-6x. Pretty interesting, to say the least. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haLbETNqWtQWhy are they turning the 1-6 back to 1x everytime? Or cranking it up to 6x everytime for the longer shot? You can easily support the EVO hits being greater when you do that. I'm sure you can still hit the up close target leaving it at 6x. Seems a little misleading in support of the EVO. You are right in that anyone who's shot an illuminated LPV for some time would take a closer COM shot at the last-used magnification using the occluded eye method. If I had to guess, the video is showing you how you could switch to the RDS for scanning for targets and the D-EVO to take advantage of the magnification and BDC. I may get one just for fun. It looks cool. |
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Posted: 5/10/2016 9:22:51 PM EDT
[#21]
SuperSet72, let me ask you a question (or anybody else who can chime in for that matter), well first let me say thank you for your video reviews.
I've been researching LPVO's for a long time. I had the 1-5x's thread on a few options a couple of weeks. Well I finally picked one up in $700 range. It's a pretty well respected 1-5x that a lot of people like, the glass was super clear, better than a value model 1-6x in the $300 price range I have, the illuminated horseshoe reticle was super bright, and I really wanted to like it. What I wasn't expecting however, was that at 1x, distant objects were actually smaller than real life. Almost like it was having a .75x affect. A 6 foot privacy fence at 250 yards away looked tiny on 1x. Is this something that happens in a lot of LPVO's? I was pretty disappointed. There was a little fisheye, which I guess I just cant afford to try and break away from, but the diminutive image was a no-go for me. I would rather have a 2-7x or 3-9x than a .75-5x. Or maybe I'm just crazy and fell on my head too much as a child. Thanks anyone for some feedback on this. |
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Posted: 5/10/2016 9:45:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Hey man, have you tried adjusting the diopter on the back of the ocular lens? That will change the size of objects at 1X.
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Posted: 5/10/2016 10:14:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Seems like they are gaining favor, at least for Joe Customer. May be a different story on the 3-Gun circuit. If they are losing favor in that arena, though, what are people going to instead?
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Posted: 5/10/2016 10:20:29 PM EDT
[#24]
huh, well no I didn't. The reticle itself was in focus, so I didn't really look at the ocular lens/bell. That's something I wouldn't have thought of, and the user guide didn't mention any such thing. Thanks for heads up! I will certainly take a look at it tomorrow when the sun's back out.
Guess it's a learning curve. I wouldn't have thought that would be a thing. As I already mentioned, never had high quality LPVO, so hoping this is a quick and easy fix and I just feel silly versus feeling frustrated. Appreciate it! |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 5:16:35 AM EDT
[#25]
with an lpvo will the range hold of the reticle be the same at 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x, ect? I cant think of a good way to ask the question. for example if i zero my scope at 1x at 100 yards and decide i want to use 3x at 100 yards, when i change magnification will i have to take magnification into account for an accurate shot? If I am overthinking this please tell me. would it make a difference if it was a first or second focal plane. not trying to hijack this thread. if i need to start a new topic i will.
wow. just found a great vid that answered my question. thanks anyway |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 8:43:26 AM EDT
[#26]
I've moved away from LPVOs personally. They are fantastic "do all" optics but I don't think they do everything I personally want them to do at the moment. I've basically decided my rifles fall into 2 categories: lighter weight RDS wearing rigs and heavier weight precision rigs with a little more magnification than a LPVO provides. I'm not a competition shooter so I can't comment on their effectiveness in that type of setting. My shooting is either <100 yards where I want a RDS or otherwise beyond that I'm shooting bench/prone for groups and don't have much use for a 1-x scope when it'll be on max magnification most of the time.
I will say that the Kahles K16i is the closest thing I've found to a perfect 1-x. Glass is great, it's robust, and the SM1 reticle and illumination is phenomenal. It's just too much money tied up in an optic for me that I will not be using as much. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 8:44:42 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
with an lpvo will the range hold of the reticle be the same at 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x, ect? I cant think of a good way to ask the question. for example if i zero my scope at 1x at 100 yards and decide i want to use 3x at 100 yards, when i change magnification will i have to take magnification into account for an accurate shot? If I am overthinking this please tell me. would it make a difference if it was a first or second focal plane. not trying to hijack this thread. if i need to start a new topic i will. wow. just found a great vid that answered my question. thanks anyway Changing the magnification level isn't SUPPOSED to change the point of impact on a SFP scope when using the center crosshairs, as they are supposed to be precisely centered in the field of view... but it doesn't always work out this way, particularly on cheaper optics. You see it a lot on the Chinese made glass. On a 1-4x, 1x is usually used on close and large enough targets that most shooters don't notice a little POI shift even if there is any... but it is worth comparing zeroes on max and min power to see if there is any shift happening. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:37:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SuperSet72, let me ask you a question (or anybody else who can chime in for that matter), well first let me say thank you for your video reviews. I've been researching LPVO's for a long time. I had the 1-5x's thread on a few options a couple of weeks. Well I finally picked one up in $700 range. It's a pretty well respected 1-5x that a lot of people like, the glass was super clear, better than a value model 1-6x in the $300 price range I have, the illuminated horseshoe reticle was super bright, and I really wanted to like it. What I wasn't expecting however, was that at 1x, distant objects were actually smaller than real life. Almost like it was having a .75x affect. A 6 foot privacy fence at 250 yards away looked tiny on 1x. Is this something that happens in a lot of LPVO's? I was pretty disappointed. There was a little fisheye, which I guess I just cant afford to try and break away from, but the diminutive image was a no-go for me. I would rather have a 2-7x or 3-9x than a .75-5x. Or maybe I'm just crazy and fell on my head too much as a child. Thanks anyone for some feedback on this. Sounds like you need to focus the diopter on the ocular lens. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 7:31:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey man, have you tried adjusting the diopter on the back of the ocular lens? That will change the size of objects at 1X. Well I'll be a monkeys uncle... sure as grass is green it changed it! Thanks! I'll take the hit on that. Never read or saw that before, or if I did I didn't realize what I was reading. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 7:43:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Sweet, enjoy your optic!
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Posted: 5/11/2016 8:40:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like you need to focus the diopter on the ocular lens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SuperSet72, let me ask you a question (or anybody else who can chime in for that matter), well first let me say thank you for your video reviews. I've been researching LPVO's for a long time. I had the 1-5x's thread on a few options a couple of weeks. Well I finally picked one up in $700 range. It's a pretty well respected 1-5x that a lot of people like, the glass was super clear, better than a value model 1-6x in the $300 price range I have, the illuminated horseshoe reticle was super bright, and I really wanted to like it. What I wasn't expecting however, was that at 1x, distant objects were actually smaller than real life. Almost like it was having a .75x affect. A 6 foot privacy fence at 250 yards away looked tiny on 1x. Is this something that happens in a lot of LPVO's? I was pretty disappointed. There was a little fisheye, which I guess I just cant afford to try and break away from, but the diminutive image was a no-go for me. I would rather have a 2-7x or 3-9x than a .75-5x. Or maybe I'm just crazy and fell on my head too much as a child. Thanks anyone for some feedback on this. Sounds like you need to focus the diopter on the ocular lens. Yep. It worked. Guess with magnified optics I never paid much attention. I would adjust the ocular lens to focus the reticle, but that was it, I wasn't paying much attention to anything else. On a 1x I can see where this becomes noticeable. My 1-6x, while inferior glass, does this too I see now. I just never noticed because it was okay as was. Thanks for the help everyone. |
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Posted: 5/11/2016 10:13:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:...and they appear to all have their quirks, even the top of the line ones... THIS. There's always something to a LPV. I ran an NXS FC3G for a year last year and the weight, size, narrow FOV @ 4X, and shitty fish-eyed, weird, less than 1X effect at 1X just killed it for me. I went back to a TA31 ACOG and it's like a breath of fresh air compared to that big, clunky thing. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 1:31:50 AM EDT
[#33]
It really isn't rocket science.
A LPV (Low Powered Variable) offers the best for a do-it-all firearm and/or situation. A RDS (or Iron Sights) will be better up close then just about anything. A Higher power Magnified Optic will offer an advantage for longer distance shots. A LPV straddles multiple shooting situations and offers the most flexibility. 
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