I'm building a critter-getter gun and want a 1-4 or 1-6, something to that effect, and I'm a little frustrated at the options I have, I guess. I tend to not skimp on AR parts; I've got 4 in my safe right now and none of them are budget builds in any sense of the word.

That said, I've looked at just about every low power scope out there, from Nightforce to Vortex to Trijicon, and it seems there's a huge jump from the $500ish price point all the way up to $1200 and up. Nothing really in between. Even the new version of the Burris XTR (which I always liked) is around a grand. I really just can't drop that much right now, until I get out of school. Where are the good options in the $600-700 range?


So I guess my question is this: do I go with something like a Vortex PST 1-4 for now, with the expectation to sell it off later and upgrade? That's kinda what I'm looking at, but any opinions are welcome. Thanks y'all.

The Burris XTRII 1-5x is selling for $700 new on Amazon.

There's a few Bushnell 1-6.5 in the EE for under $700.

I got a Trijicon TR24 for $700 on the EE.

Most under appreciated glass available IMHO.

Really happy with my VxR patrol 1.25-4. The firedot is daylight bright unlike the vortex PST and its lighter. Glass is definitely decent. It's not perfect, but for the price I'm satisfied.

Steiner 1-4 europtic  $699.

Anybody have any feedback on the Trijicon AccuPower 1-4?

Minox 1.2-6 450 at Euro-Optic

Leupold AR Mod 1 is a 1.5 x 4. I have it mounted on a SIG M400 and very happy with it.

 
I'm very happy with mine as well. This model with a LaRue or ADM mount is in your price range OP.

Skip the leupold mk ar mod 1, its ok but the patrol is heads and tails above it, then add an aero mount. The mk ar green fire dot is not as bright during the day as the patrols red one and better light transmission through the 30mm tube not to mention better glass. All for a couple dollars more.

I would look into a vortex strike eagle, if I had another ar needing an optic that is the one I would try.

You can still find some Burris MTAC30 packages with a FF3 and PEPR mount around for great deals.  Not quite the glass of the XTR, but still good.
I've got a XTR-14 (first model) and I love it, got it for $600 with the mount and FF3 from SWFA on clearance.

SWFA has their own decent low power variable now too btw.

The glass is really clear and the illuminated reticle is day time bright.  Like most Trijicon products, it feels like a quality built piece of equipment.

I am not sure I would go with it due to the decreasing price of 1-6 optics due to everyone coming out with 1-8s

Sell one of your other ARs and get nice glass for this one.

I've considered that, but it's hard to make myself since I'd take a massive loss in this environment. Just such a buyer's market.

 

I agree with you.

I'd go on the low and, like leupold Mk AR mod 1. you can always put on a beater once you upgrade later on. Dont buy a dedicated 1 inch mount, buy a 30mm and put inserts in. That way you wont be stuck with the mount.

If you buy one of the scope/mount kits from SWFA, it comes with a 30mm mount and 1" inserts.  

I like the Mark AR Mod 1 too for a cheap optic... it and the Burris TAC30 are about as cheap as you can go and still have decent glass... but if you're looking for the $6-800 range, look into the Burris XTRII and Leupold VX-R Patrol.  

A 30mm main tube does NOT transmit more light than a 1" main tube.  When the objective lens brings the image (inverted after passing through) to its focal point from thereafter all the way to the erector assembly and from there to the eyepiece, the ocular, the beam inside the main tube is the same size in both tube diameters, considerably less than the inside diameter of a 1" tube.  That beam size is not determined or influenced by main tube diameter. Tube size increase to 30mm has no effect on light transmission.  What it can do is make for a stronger more rigid tube and more internal room for the turrets to move the erector system for increased elevstion and windage.

In this case, Leupold has chosen to use a 1" erector system in both the Mark AR and the Patrol, so there is no increased elevation and windage.  I wish it had put the extra room to better use.  But the tube is extremely strong.

Even so, the lens quality and the lens coating in the Patrol are vastly superior to the Mark AR.  And, yes, the red Firedot can be made much brighter. Light transmission, contrast, fine detail resolution, and edge to edge clarity are all better in the Patrol, but not because of the 30mm main tube.  The oft repeated but incorrect statement that a 30mm main tube passes more light is a myth that must stop.

BTW, Strike Eagle Chinese glass is not as good as Mark AR and far short of VX-R.  I consider the Strike Eagle to be a tactical Crossfire II in terms of optics.

Help me out here, wouldn't a larger lens diameter allow more light? I am thinking of the internal lenses beside the objective and occular. Lets forget about lens coatings and the erector set and any specific scope that only uses the larger tube for strength or increased internal space.

Sounds like you are well read in this subject or perhaps you are a tech at some optic company so what say you.

See my post above yours...

It's a phenomenal piece of glass. Never needs batteries. On 1X, with the focus properly adjusted, It's virtually true zero magnification, much like an Aimpoint.

Used on the EE for a few hundred off retail is a bargain that's hard to beat.

Mine sits in an Aero Precision mount atop my 16" "do-it-all" AR and I couldn't be happier.

I'd suggest looking for deals on the Burris XTR-II 1-5.  I saw one or two that sold on the EE for under $600 - and you can find sales or deals through various online sources that put it in the under $700 category.  It's a big step up in quality from the $250-400 optics that I was considering and it was well worth it for me.

After doing a bit of searching i think I may have answered my own question....

Again assuming all is equal.
Larger lenses are slightly better because of a milder curvature  BUT it is more of a function of the diameter of the eyes pupil and exit pupil of the optic. Both a 1in tube and 30mm are capable of transmitting more light than can stimulate the retina thus producing equally bright images.

Am I on the right track here?

Just to be clear, the RS24 AccuPower needs batteries. The TR24 AccuPoint uses fiber optic/tritium so no batteries.

I am wondering if Leupy will enter the 1-6 value market this year with a 1-6 VXR....

SORRY!

You are correct. I have the TR24, not the the RS24.

The light beam inside the main tube has been compressed to a much smaller diameter than one inch.  Think of how you can focus a flashlight beam.  If you aim a 2" flashlight beam through the center of a 4" plastic pipe, it never touches the sides of the pipe.  Increase the pipe diameter to 6".  Likewise, it never toughes the pipe.   The larger pipe does not transmit more light, but you do have more room inside to move the beam up or down (windage and elevation turrets) within the bigger tube.

Well, . . . not quite. The objective lens of say a 40mm objective scope is just that:  40mm.  That lens size does not change in either a 1" main tube scope or a 30mm main tube scope. Same thing with the eyepiece or occular.  Both are independent of the main tube between them.  A larger objective lens does let in more light than a smaller one of equal quality, but that light is compressed into a small beam by the time it gets to the main tube.  Larger objective lens of equal quality is not merely slightly better.  It is much better because it is surface area, not merely diameter, that is at play. Increasing an objective lens from 20mm to 40mm increases diameter by two.  But it increases surface area of the lens far more than twice.  It is four times greater.  (Area of a circle is 3.14 x its radius squared - 314 square mm vs 1256 square mm!)

Main tube size has nothing to do with exit pupil, either.  Exit pupil size is the objective lens  diameter in mm (lens not the tube behind it) divided by the magnification power.  A scope with a 40mm objective lens set on 8x has an exit pupil of 40 divided by 8 = 5mm.  It will be 5mm in a one inch main tube scope.  It will still be 5mm in a 30mm main tube scope.  Exit pupil will be smaller than your own pupil in good light, because your pupil contracts in good light.  But close to dark, your pupil opens up, trying to gather more light to its retina.  It can open to at least 5mm.  Some people can get to 6 or 7mm.  If the exit pupil of the scope is less than that of your eye's pupil the image will dim and will be difficult to keep centered.

Neither of these optics principles involve main tube diameter, however.  For all practical purposes (excluding extremes not present in this discussion) the only thing main tube diameter influences is the range of internal motion of the erector lens system, which turns the inverted image back right side up but also moves the relationship of the beam to the position of your crosshairs (reticle).  That is how you zero a scope with the turrets and change point of aim for elevation and windage.

Trijicon TR24. Mine's on a DDM4v5 in a LaRue mount, and it's my do-it-all, end of the world, "grab one rifle" rifle.  Hits out to 300 meters are ridiculously easy. Last year my 10 year old son dropped a nice eight point buck with that rifle/scope during last light on opening day, during a heavy snowstorm. Visibility was not good. He said "I just put the red triangle on the chest and squeezed." 62 grain Fed Fusion did the rest.

ETA:  it's been carried through heavy brush, bounced around in the back of a Polaris ranger, sandblasted on windy days in Wyoming, ridden muzzle-down in the footwell of my Silverado across bumpy shit roads and places without roads, and endured the recoil of several thousand rounds. Once zeroed, it's been completely on every day. As near as I can tell without running over it with a bulldozer, the damn scope is indestructible.

I just went through the same thing and settled on the Vortex PST. I was sold after handling one on someone's rifle at the range. For the price, the glass is great, as is eye relief AND exit pupil.

Bumping this for the OP. I just got the PST in. Glass is much clearer than the cheaper Chinese made scopes and well worth the extra money, even compared to the 1-6s. I'd much rather have clearer glass on a 1-4 than crappier glass on a 1-6 especially with a better exit pupil.

If you really want to go cheap, the Weaver classic extreme 1.4-4.5 from Natchez for $230ish, is really good for the price if you don't need anything for ranging, holdovers, etc. And don't mind 1.5 on the low end. It has great eye relief and exit pupil.

Not to confuse you but specs on the Accupoint look good as far as exit pupil go.

I bought a like new Accupoint with LaRue mount for $400. It's Amber which I don't really like but it works. Buy used and save.

Am I missing something or did you get a crazy steal?  Aren't the Accupoint's 800-900 new?

no shit..that's a crazy deal.

 

Sounds like a TR21 1.25-4X AccuPoint deal to me.

Yup

 

Mine? no its a TR20 3X9 with Larue Mount. It was a good deal for sho

OOhh.. ok, cool. Someone lost money on your deal. :)
Everyone's talking about 1-4x and 1-6x in this thread so wasn't thinking anything non 1X-ish.

I have had two TR-24s.  To me, they seem to have a large fish eye effect, and if I bought another I would only use them for acquiring large targets quickly.  I never shot for groups with the green triangle one, but I was using the German reticle model to try and shoot groups at 100 yards on both 5.56 and 308 ARs and about the best it would do is about 4 to 5 MOA.  I switched to a regular scope and started getting 2 MOA with standard military style ammo.

And by groups, I don't mean I was trying to get benchrest performance as I know that is not what the TR24s are designed for, but I would have expected better than I was getting at the 100 yard, and especially at the 50 yard line.  

I will say they seem bullet proof, and the glass is pretty clear, but I am not sure I would buy another.  I am just as well served with an Aimpoint PRO, at the older sub-$400 prices, than spending nearly $1K on a new TR24.  If you are just looking for minute of large critter, or man, capability, it should work for you.

Check out SWFA SS HD 1-4x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope, FFP, HD Glass, $800
They also have a non HD version, SWFA SS 1-4x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope, but its not FFP, $400

Vortex PST and Leupold VX-R are the best bang for the buck imo.