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Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 7/28/2015 4:41:49 PM EDT
Hello all, I read the guides and think I am ready to select some optics for my AR but could use some insight into my approach.

I am an just you average country boy, fair eyesight, who is looking to shoot varmits, plink and have an all around defense weapon.

I have an Adams Arms mid length .556 with flip sights. I have it dialed in spot on at 50yrds and can group ok at 100.
I'm in New England so my targeting will be typically 25-100 yards an a good day in the right place 300 at the most.

What I would like to do is have my rifle setup with a Nikon P-223 scope 3x with flip sights for backups.

I'm not a fast mover engaging combat targets, more of a range plinker and varmit eradicator.

Is this just a wrong approach? I'd appreciate your advice. Thanks
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 4:54:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Sounds like a good place to start to me. A friend has that scope on one of his carbines and it is good glass.
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 6:07:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Don't know what your budget is but you might consider an Eotech with a 3x primary arms magnifier. A bit more weight and cash but IMO it's a better set up. For close up 25-100 yards the Eotech with decent eyes can do a lot in the hands of a capable shooter while also providing a lot faster target acquisition.  I know from experience night time/low light with a non illuminated scope sucks. To each his own. Note though. You would need to remove the scope or have off set irons to run BUIS. You cannot co witness iron sights thorough a magnified optic
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 6:30:57 PM EDT
[#3]
While the P-223 3x might not be my choice, it might serve you well for your intended use.   One thing to do:  Go to a box store where you can play with one.  

Check to see if it will focus at the closest distance you are likely to shoot the rifle, and whether the field of view (amount of area around the target you can see) is acceptable.   If it does, it would serve you as an intro to magnified optics and you could then evaluate whether you want anything different later.

I took many deer in my early years (I'm 65) with a rifle with a fixed K4 Weaver 4x scope.  I did almost miss one at stick throwing distance that ran right under my tree stand, because all I could see at 4x was deer hair and I couldn't tell which end of the deer the crosshairs were on!  Fortunately, he stopped and let me move my scope around enough to find a reference point at the base of his neck.

For this reason, I've been a fan of low powered variables for general purpose, such as hunting versions of 2-7x33 type with simple relatively thick duplex type reticles with a finer center cross hair.   I keep such scopes down on the bottom magnification except when extra magnification is needed.   I do hunt with 3-9x40mm scopes almost as much, and down at 3x it is not unlike the P-223 you are considering.

FWIW:  If you are not going to exceed 250-300 yards, you do not need a BDC reticle or exposed turrets.  Your AR with the 50 yard battle zero for your scope will shoot with a straight hold on out to almost 300 yards, with the bullet being no more than about 3-4" from point of aim at any point.  A regular budget  priced hunting scope in the 2-7x range might serve you well.  Leupold, Weaver, Burris, Vortex, Bushnell and Nikon make such scopes.

In fact, the "P" in the P-223 stands for Prostaff.  The capped turret Nikon Prostaff 2-7x32 might be a better choice for you at not much difference in cost.  Would certainly do better up close and reach out better for a longer varmint shot.

Just check field of view and close up focus capability of any scope before buying.

Link Posted: 7/28/2015 9:06:47 PM EDT
[#4]
My experience mirrors yours sir!!!

My first deer rifle I used was my Step Dad's sporterized mauser with a weaver K4 on it.  It was dead nuts accurate and I took 2 deer with that gun.  Both being shots that kind of blew my mind.  One was on a dead run at about 100 yards and the other was close but in some very tight little pines and I threaded the needle perfectly with that scope.  But I also cursed that scope at times because I missed quite a few up close shots because I couldn't get on the deer quickly.  I was young and didn't shoot with both eyes open though, back then.  But sometimes stuff happens so fast with deer hunting you only get a second or two.  

When I built a recce I wanted lower power because of that.  So I went to a leupy 2-7.   I think you could be pretty fast with a 2 power scope.  Especially if you learn to open both your eyes to help you line it up and then focus on the scope.  I never got to try that theory out on a deer though.  I would think a red dot or 1x would be just that much faster but obviously you give up some ability to see at distance.  But do you really NEED more than a 4x?  That's a hard one to call.  If shooting small objects at 100 plus yards, the answer might be yes.  If it's just deer or silhouette targets, you could shoot pretty far with just a 4x, I think.  Far enough that knowing your dope is more of the issue.

One thing about those Nikons is I think they're pretty beefy and heavy.   Something to consider.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 1:54:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Thank you all. Sounds like I'm in the right school of thought. I may look at a different scope. I was thinking of 45 degree offset mounts for my iron sights while keeping the profile low while scoped.Perhaps I'm just trying to get too much. I like the idea of an EO Tech but my budget is around $200..
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 2:58:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks, I will explore the EO Tech option

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't know what your budget is but you might consider an Eotech with a 3x primary arms magnifier. A bit more weight and cash but IMO it's a better set up. For close up 25-100 yards the Eotech with decent eyes can do a lot in the hands of a capable shooter while also providing a lot faster target acquisition.  I know from experience night time/low light with a non illuminated scope sucks. To each his own. Note though. You would need to remove the scope or have off set irons to run BUIS. You cannot co witness iron sights thorough a magnified optic
View Quote

Link Posted: 7/29/2015 3:04:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Headed to store to try scopes. I did see a P-223 with a 1.5. Thanks!

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
While the P-223 3x might not be my choice, it might serve you well for your intended use.   One thing to do:  Go to a box store where you can play with one.  

Check to see if it will focus at the closest distance you are likely to shoot the rifle, and whether the field of view (amount of area around the target you can see) is acceptable.   If it does, it would serve you as an intro to magnified optics and you could then evaluate whether you want anything different later.

I took many deer in my early years (I'm 65) with a rifle with a fixed K4 Weaver 4x scope.  I did almost miss one at stick throwing distance that ran right under my tree stand, because all I could see at 4x was deer hair and I couldn't tell which end of the deer the crosshairs were on!  Fortunately, he stopped and let me move my scope around enough to find a reference point at the base of his neck.

For this reason, I've been a fan of low powered variables for general purpose, such as hunting versions of 2-7x33 type with simple relatively thick duplex type reticles with a finer center cross hair.   I keep such scopes down on the bottom magnification except when extra magnification is needed.   I do hunt with 3-9x40mm scopes almost as much, and down at 3x it is not unlike the P-223 you are considering.

FWIW:  If you are not going to exceed 250-300 yards, you do not need a BDC reticle or exposed turrets.  Your AR with the 50 yard battle zero for your scope will shoot with a straight hold on out to almost 300 yards, with the bullet being no more than about 3-4" from point of aim at any point.  A regular budget  priced hunting scope in the 2-7x range might serve you well.  Leupold, Weaver, Burris, Vortex, Bushnell and Nikon make such scopes.


View Quote

Link Posted: 7/29/2015 3:29:15 PM EDT
[#8]
You will probably need a cantilever mount for the scope to get proper eye relief and cheek weld.  AR stocks are much higher than on hunting rifles, so you have to lift the scope up higher.  This is contrary to "as low over the bore as possible" which we normally follow with other rifles.  Your cheek against that higher stock will direct your eye along a plane that is about 1.4' to 1.5" above the top rail.  This is about a full inch higher than on a bolt gun.  That's also why you see the fixed iron sights on an AR15 as high as they are.  The stock cannot be made lower because of the buffer tube (receiver extension) running through the top of it - that is a necessary part of the rifle function.

Also, the top rail on an AR15 is very short.  There are not enough slots for regular rings to be used with most scopes and be able to adjust eye relief properly.  Once you get the scope the proper distance ahead of your eye, (usually with the rear of the scope directly over the back of your charge handle, or even a bit more forward) most scope turrets will be too far forward to get the front ring onto your upper.

That is why AR15 rings and mounts are offset to the front.  Many here will recommend a one piece cantilever base and rings combo.   While that is probably best, it costs a bit more if you are on a tight budget.  Nikon makes a special affordable two piece "P" ring set just for this purpose.  About $50 for the pair.  That will get the job done without hurting your wallet too much.  You can upgrade later, if you feel the need..

Yes, offset irons would be needed if you want to have access to them and the scope at the same time.  I'd suggest that unless you already have them or the two offset mounts to put your existing ones on, that you hold off and invest your money in the scope and mount for the time being.  If the scope were to get damaged in the field, you can simply carry a small tool in your pack or kit and remove the scope to complete the hunt.

Even budget scopes, if from a respected manufacturer, are pretty durable these days.   Just a few thoughts.
Link Posted: 7/30/2015 10:41:17 AM EDT
[#9]
My suggestion would be a weaver v3 1-3 power scope
Link Posted: 7/31/2015 1:20:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks, I'll check it out.
Link Posted: 8/1/2015 5:00:12 PM EDT
[#11]
I mount optics where I work and the 3x P223 is a very short scope.  There are not many risers that will work with it.  Bottom line: one of the more difficult scopes to mount and no adjustability for eye relief.

At work we carry Burris, Leupold, Warne, Nightforce and Nikon risers.  These are the only ones we carry that will work with that scope and it's because they are two piece.
http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Nikon-Products/Mounts-and-Mounting-Rings/P-Series-Mount.html
Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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