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Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
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Posted: 10/20/2014 3:12:10 PM EDT
In the Marine Corps, I was issued the Trijicon ACOG. This has set the bar for me. I absolutely thrashed my ACOG. It never failed, even after running/crawling through sand and being dropped and slammed against rocks in always retained its zero.
After I finished active duty I bought a exps2/g33 eotech combo to try something new for my personal AR. After using it for several months, I sold it. The EOtechs have a couple quirks that I don't want to tolerate. (To each their own. I don't hate Eotech, they're Just not for me.)

I've now taken an interest to the variable magnification sights such as the Vortex Razor II and the trijicon VCOG. I like the idea of having a 1x / no magnification for CQB, and being able to zoom for accurate fire at 600 yrds+
However, by looking at them, I question their durability. The ACOG has very thick walls around its glass, and these other optics appear to be more fragile.
I could be wrong about them, which is what I am hoping to hear.

What versatile optics have you guys used and beat the shit out of? What are your recommendations? I don't PLAN on beating my new optics, but I want to know that I can if I need to. (SHTF)
Price is not a factor. I'm not rich by any means, but I will pay high dollar if it's worth high dollar.

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 3:31:59 PM EDT
[#1]
well for shtf, I like that fact that the vcog uses AA batteries.

The acog ta33 has amazing eye relief, spec sheet says 1.9 inches but its more like 3-6inches.  This makes it very friendly both eyes open. Buts its only 3x. Vcog has generous eye relief too, about 4 inches.

My biggest ding is the weight penalty with magnified optics.  They are all heavy.  About twice what an acog weighs.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 3:53:06 PM EDT
[#2]
The Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x20mm with milrad system and Firedot reticle weighs twice as much as an ACOG?  11.5 ounces, last I knew.  Very sturdy construction.  30mm main tube.  Leupold scopes just don't fail in the field.

VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x20mm Review

I have the 3-9x40mm version of the same scope in QD mounts on a RECCE build.  It is very durable. Even in the combat-ready LaRue SPR QD mount (7 ounces, rings, base and QD levers), the whole thing would be barely 18 ounces. I believe that is identical to a 4x32 battery illuminated ACOG and only 3 ounces more than the standard 4x32, iniding mount.  And there are lighter scope mounts that are pretty rugged, just not return to zero true QD, such as the Aero Precision ultralight.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 4:07:43 PM EDT
[#3]
NF is probably the most durable of the traditional type 1-4x's. If you're looking for daylight visible illumination, they're are better choices. The VCOG, MK6, S&B and Kahles are excellent but pretty pricey. I'm sure the Vortex Razor would also be pretty tough. However, nothing is indestructible not even the ACOG. If I had my choice regardless of cost it would probably be the Kahles K16i. Hopefully NF will put out some better reticles and brighter illumination in the future, which would make it the perfect 1-4x for the AR-15, IMO.

Then there is Elcan.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 4:09:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Not a single one of those variables you mentioned are remotely as durable as the ACOG.

The *only* optic, AFAIK, that is even close would be an Elcan 1/4x or 1.5/6x. I have both ACOGs and Elcans and they can be used to hammer nails, then remounted without discernible POI shift.

Link Posted: 10/20/2014 4:34:12 PM EDT
[#5]
I guess it depends on how you define "durable" and your experience.  I am 64 years old.  I have used a broad variety of scopes in very rough terrain and terrible weather on hunting trips.  I don't baby them and don't intentionally abuse them.  They do get knocked into rocks and rifles take falls.  They get muddy.  They get exposed to severe conditions.  Winter weather is sometimes terrible, as are torrential rainstorms.  

I have about two dozen scopes from nine different manufacturers.  Some were purchased this year, some accumulated over decades as rifles have been added to my collection.  Some are over 50 years old, including original first generation Vari-X Leupold, Redfield and even old El Paso made steel tube Weavers, various Nikon, Burris, Bushnell, original Baush and Lomb, and recent offerings from Zeiss and my current favorite a 2-7x36 German #4 reticle Kahles Helia CL.  Of them all, Leupolds have simply never fogged, never lost zero, never had any mechanical or optical problems, not even the oldest that have been in the field under tough conditions for decades. I cannot say that about any other brand in terms of uniformly consistent durability.

Scopes from good companies are amazingly durable devices.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 5:32:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I guess it depends on how you define "durable" and your experience.  I am 64 years old.  I have used a broad variety of scopes in very rough terrain and terrible weather on hunting trips.  I don't baby them and don't intentionally abuse them.  They do get knocked into rocks and rifles take falls.  They get muddy.  They get exposed to severe conditions.  Winter weather is sometimes terrible, as are torrential rainstorms.  

I have about two dozen scopes from nine different manufacturers.  Some were purchased this year, some accumulated over decades as rifles have been added to my collection.  Some are over 50 years old, including original first generation Vari-X Leupold, Redfield and even old El Paso made steel tube Weavers, various Nikon, Burris, Bushnell, original Baush and Lomb, and recent offerings from Zeiss and my current favorite a 2-7x36 German #4 reticle Kahles Helia CL.  Of them all, Leupolds have simply never fogged, never lost zero, never had any mechanical or optical problems, not even the oldest that have been in the field under tough conditions for decades. I cannot say that about any other brand in terms of uniformly consistent durability.

Scopes from good companies are amazingly durable devices.
View Quote


They're all the durability you or I will likely ever need, but... aside from price there is a reason they aren't used as standard equipment on an infantry issue rifle.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 10:55:03 PM EDT
[#7]
SWFA 1-6 HD. By all accounts mil-spec quality optics. Supposed to be 'overbuilt' to withstand hard use.  I don't own one personally, but may be worth further research. Only SHTF drawback would be the type of battery it uses. Not proprietary by any means, just not as common as AA's one poster mentioned.
Link Posted: 10/21/2014 3:47:59 PM EDT
[#8]
I would lean towards just getting an ACOG. I own or have owned many of the optics mentioned (SWFA, leupold, NF) and I wouldn't put any of them in the same level of durability as the ACOG.

Trijicon claims the TARs and possibly the VCOG being as durable, but I'm not sure on that one.
Link Posted: 10/21/2014 10:31:13 PM EDT
[#9]
I will not bore you with how much I use and love my acog since you state you have used one in an enviroment much worse than what mine is used in . the only way I would ever drag mine through the sand would be if I fell down while walking beside the river . other optics I own that I consider durable and can take a licking are my leupold mk4 cqt 1x3 power . It has been mounted for 5 years on my 458 socom and really its not any bigger than an eotech with a magnifier but much sturdier built and the glass is so much more clear , they can be found used for 500-600 dollars . Not what the cool kids use these days but none the less a great optic . I also have a mk4 2.5 x 8 I use on a 700 remington for hunting . Its good glass , pretty fast on target at 2.5 and enough magnification for me to make a kill shot on a deer at an extended range . its pretty robust and the construction is quality all the way . dont forget to check out night force compacts I certainly would not feel insecure with a 1x4 or 2.5 x 10 mounted on one of my rifles .
Link Posted: 10/21/2014 10:54:01 PM EDT
[#10]
I wasn't familiar with the Elcans. Those intrigue me. I may consider an ACOG with the RMR on top, I suppose that fills the distance versatility I want. It seems everyone for the most part would agree that an ACOG is the thing to beat
as far as durability goes. I was looking more into the Trijicon VCOG too. It actually seems to be built more sturdy than other similiar scopes. It looks like its encased in a solid monolithic body like the ACOG rather than a standalone scope awaiting
a separate mount/rings.

Thanks to everyone who has replied thus far. I appreciate you sharing. Keep it comin!
Link Posted: 10/22/2014 9:10:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
NF is probably the most durable of the traditional type 1-4x's. If you're looking for daylight visible illumination, they're are better choices. The VCOG, MK6, S&B and Kahles are excellent but pretty pricey. I'm sure the Vortex Razor would also be pretty tough. However, nothing is indestructible not even the ACOG. If I had my choice regardless of cost it would probably be the Kahles K16i. Hopefully NF will put out some better reticles and brighter illumination in the future, which would make it the perfect 1-4x for the AR-15, IMO.

Then there is Elcan.
View Quote

The NightForce scopes are daylight visible, although they're otherwise excellent products.

I'd add Meopta to the list of scopes with a true daylight visible reticle.
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