If you had only 1 rifle (AR), which one would you choose for optics?

Option 1 -

RDS (Aimpoint / EoTech / Etc) with a 3x magnifier on a Side Flip mount


Option 2 -

True 1x4 zoom scope


Which one would you choose and why?  

Again, this would be your only rifle.  That means HD / Training / SHTF / Everything else.

Just curious as we got into the discussion at work the other day.

I'd go Red Dot.  With my Aimpoint with the 2 MIL dot it's pretty easy to hit out to 300 yds.  In close, the red dot is way faster than a magnifier.  Considering most defensive scenarios are going to occur inside 300 yds it's an easy decision.

I have only one AR15 which is mainly used for HD, and close in stuff so I have a Aimpoint T1/Eotech G33 combo which can compete in toughness with any ACOG or Nightforce.









 

Can you aim me towards some good reading material on this?

Old but good review.







 

1-4.

Me no likey the characteristics of the magnifiers....such as eye relief.

I've run both a RDS and magnifier, and now a 1-6x on the same rifle.
The biggest question should really be at what distances do you see yourself shooting most often?

The RDS + magnifier combination (+ mounts) is likely going to be the heavier of the two, but depending on anticipated use, isn't bad.  Elcan Spectres get a lot of praise, and it's not too different from a RDS + magnifier, in that it's either 1x or 4x, with no adjustment in between...although the reticle vs dot only is a real difference.  

For inside 50 yards, you may find a RDS faster for you vs a variable mag. optic.  Personally, I don't notice a difference in running an RDS vs my 1-6x on 1x (or 2x), both eyes open.
Adding a magnifier does impose the whole 'eye relief issue,' although IMO, this may be somewhat overblown, as in - how often are you shooting at distance (when you'd want the magnifier) in contorted positions where eye relief would pose a problem (vs prone, kneeling or braced on something, etc.)?

For me, I do a lot of 3 gun, and shots range from 10-~350yards or so - I've run both combinations, and didn't feel 'under-scoped' for the most part from up close out to around 200-250 yards with the RDS + magnifier, although I do like/prefer my newer 1-6x setup in general.
If your concern/shooting is 75% or more inside of 50 yards, with occasional range or longer shots, I'd probably go with the RDS + magnifier.  
In an ideal world, I'd love to see an Eotech reticle with the battery life of an Aimpoint, or even close, but that's a different thread.. ;)

Just another opinion; I'm sure you'll get more. ;)

I have used ACOGs, variables, and RDS with and without magnifiers over the years.  I find myself returning to the speed and simplicity of RDS again and again.  If I can see the target out to 300m then I can get a hit.  If I need to look at something then I have some Steiner binos to use for target ID rather than point a weapon at something I might not want to kill.  That whole 4 cardinal rules of gun safety thing that everyone who uses their magnfiers/magnified optic for target ID likes to break on a regular basis.

YMMV,
Rob

Think about your ACTUAL use of the rifle. Many will get one "for defense", but how often are you really going to use it for that?

Unless your getting into competition, 3-gun or other, most actual use is at the range, indoor or out. I recommend getting something that you will enjoy, and find useful for you.

I don't care for the magnifier combos, they're heavy, awkward, and not very practicle for my uses.

I have one setup with an EOTech XPS3-0 for indoor range use and outdoor 100 yards and under, and another with a Trijicon 1-4x for outdoor 100 yards and up. I find both to be quick at CQB distances, but I do prefer the EOTech for the eye-relief benefit. I would be happy with either, but if I want to shoot anything over 75 yards or so, I like having some magnification. I don't NEED it, but PREFER it. Having a magnifier just clutters things up, and takes away the primary benefit of the RDS...speed. If I had to choose only one, it would be the 1-4x. The magnification is more useful to me than the fraction of a second I save with a RDS.

In all reality, if I face an actual threat to my home, I'm grabbing my .45 in the nightstand, or my shotgun if there's time. I would only want an AR for home defense if I lived in a rural area with lots of land between me and my backup (neighbors/police).

My point is to consider not so much what your INTENTIONS are, but what your real-world USE will be.

I'll take a 1-4x since it doesn't totally rely on electronics or battery. Irons over anything.

BTW, anyone noticed the steady influx on ELCAN SpecterDRs being sold in the EE?  Was there a big ELCAN buying binge recently or do they have a new model coming out?

The clone guys all grabbed them up and are now golng back to the SU-231/231A.


Had to keep it clone correct with proper nomenclature that no one not assigned to Supply or Arfcom will know

Option 1

Another "only one AR" guy here.
I leave my red dot on the gun, but only put the QD 3X on at the range for fun or during a class.  Makes 60-250YD shot groups tighter than the RD alone.  
But I'm a weight snob, and like the option to cut my optic weight down to 4.6 ounces versus a 1-4X, which would always have 23-26 ounces on board.

But then again, most of the variables I trust as being rugged enough (and small/er/liter than most) are out of my price range (like the Leupy Mark 6 1-4 or the USO stuff).  $1000 is my limit for a fun, hobby and HD gun.

I too am a weight snob, but managed to get my AR15 with the red dot/mag combo to 8 lbs unloaded which imo is great weight for that setup.

 

Ha! Yeah, A lot of the guys from the clone threads who have been selling them haven't liked them for one reason or another, can't remember all the reasons.

"...in that it's either 1x or 4x, with no adjustment in between"
aren't they 1 to 4  and not 1 and 4, I always thought you could adjust it in between as well? I

It's a tough choice, but I would take a RDS magnifier combo(exps or T1 and G33) for my one and only. I love my mk8 but it's weight and not true 1x make it less than ideal for carrying around for extended periods hunting compared to exps/g33.

There have been quite a few Specters on the EE. I had one for a short while and it wasn't for me. It's a 1x or 4x only with the flip of a switch.

To answer the OP's question: IF I could only have 1 I think I would opt for a RDS equipped rifle. To be honest you may not even need the 3x though there is no harm in having one that can easily be removed. The biggest problem you have here is only 1 rifle! You need both a RDS equipped rifle and a 1-x to cover your bases.

Thanks for the replies.  Like I said, this was just a discussion with a bunch of guys at work so I figured I'd ask here and see your answers.

So what do you choose?

 

I have one set up with a PA 1-6 (true 1x and illuminated), and the other with red dot and removable swing to side 3x long eye relief magnifier.

The scope is more fun at the range, but for literally every other scenario you'll ever need or want the gun for, the red dot/mag combo will work better and faster. My take anyway.

As a current "one AR" owner I'm in the same position in that I haven't purchased an optic yet beyond my irons. My last rifle had a 1-4x Leupold Mark AR which was great for the range. Ours only goes out to 100yds so it was more than sufficient to hit 6" targets. However, even at the lowest mag setting it would be cumbersome for quick target acquisition for "defense drills" compared to my irons or a red dot.

Keep in mind I had this setup before I picked up a .22 w/ 3-12 scope for the range. Now that I have a second option for 'long range fun' a scope for my AR is less important to me.

A red dot w/ magnifier would give you a balance of both worlds and would run around the same price as a nice scope and mount.

My thoughts for my "one AR" isn't to make it an all-around weapon. I want it to be better at one job than mediocre at two. I have other guns to handle true long-range duty.

I think my plan is to start with a red dot and see if I want a magnifier down the line after I've had time to get used to shooting with the red dot.

I was in the RDS & Magnifier combo group...

Does the eye relief really suck that bad with a magnifier?  Thinking about going with a Aimpoint PRO with a magnifier for a Beowulf build.

Both the AP magnifier and the EOTech G33 have more eye relief than an ACOG TA31.
Even the Vortex VMX3T has more eye relief than an Elcan SpecterDR.

Only for guys who compare them to scopes.

 

Look at it like this, if you care about close quarters more than you do long distance get the RDS + Magnifier, but if you care about longer distance more than you do close quarters get a 1-4x.

If you end up going the RDS + Magnifier route the only magnifiers that I would recommend are the Vortex 3x mag and Eotech G33 3.25x the rest I have tried are god awful including the aimpoint mag.

I have an eotech exps3-4 (it has 4 dots for bullet drop compensation at longer distances-and no they won't slow you down compared to just a 1 dot eotech at close quarters) and a G33 3.25x magnifier and it is just about as good as any 1-4x at longer ranges (and has a huge field of view that's way larger than a 1-4x, I mean it's a really large field of view with the G33 it's not narrow like 1-4x's). With the 4 dot exps eotech and G33 I can easily hit a man sized target at 500 yards and when I need close quarters speed I just flip the magnifier to the side (and the G33 will stay in place it won't wobble around like the G23, it takes a very good amount of force to move it) and use my eotech which is the fastest close quarters optic there is in my opinion, and again even with the 4 dots it makes no difference its still as fast as the 1 dot eotech. So this set-up gives me shooting capability at longer distances at about 85-95% of what a scope can do (depending on the scope, like does the scope have fine lines, dots/circles etc.) and at close quarters I have the eotech which most will tell you is the fastest RDS type sight out there. Plus the 4 dot eotech when combined with g33 will give good bullet drop compensation, like the 1st dot will cover 0-300 yards, 2nd dot is 400, 3rd dot is 500 and 4th dot is 600 (I don't see myself using the 4th dot at 600 yards that's really stretching it). The only draw back with the G33 is the eye relief when compared to 1-4x's, but it's still pretty good at 2.2" while the 4x ACOG has 1.5" of eye relief, If you like to shoot with your stock very far back this might be a problem, but from what I hear its better to shoot with the stock close to the rifle rather than far away from the rifle. Anyway I hope this helps. sorry if my writing was a little confusing to interpret but I think you will get the gist

I just bought a viper pst for my recce and couldn't be anymore happier.  However I only bought it to compliment my Recce and if I had to choose one rifle for the rest of my life it would be a simple carbine with a quality RDS.  Primary Arms now has a RDS that has similar battery life as the Aimpoints for 1/3 the price.

If go RDS with a magnifier.  Great for close to mid range, but not so hot out past 200 yds. With a 1-4,  which I previously used a pri arms 1-6, a tr24, and an xtr 1-4,  your check weld and head position have to be justtttt right or you'll lose FOV and push your shots off target.  Read up on parallax, and the good rds don't suffer from it.

I have an aimpoint pro , an eotech xps2 and a primary arms 3x magnifier , I also have a leupold mk4 cqt 1x3 . the magnifier is fun to play with ,but really the leupold isnt any bigger than an eotech or aimpint with a magnifier plus it has an etched reticle so if I dont need illumination Im good or if Im in the woods I can turn the illumination on and go from 1x to 3 power with a twist of the tube . I like it very much . ther reality for me is if I thought I had to go out the door in a hurry more than likely I would leave the magnifier behind in the dust and rely on the aimpoint or eotech as they stand . to be honest In a shtf situation If I have a 200 yd head start somebody will have to hit a moving target traveling in an erratic manner .

I went with a 552/G33 combo. I like it because it is faster up close than a 1-4x and I can still flip the magnifier out of the way to use the irons.