Does anyone have one?
What are your thoughts?  Seems like a really cool idea to me.  

Thanks

I've owned several M21's (recently replaced them w/the new Meprolight RDS) and IMHO they're the best of the tritium/fiber optic sights. IDF issue so you know they're rugged/reliable w/no batteries, switches, adjustments or electronics to worry about. However, you can still experience reticle washout under certain lighting conditions (like aiming out a window from a dark room into bright daylight) and the lens does have a heavy tint to improve reticle contrast. The M21 is the best KISS optic currently available (YMMV).
Tomac

I'm not sure I like the washout issue on them, is the only thing holding me back.

Have had one for a week, only had it to the range twice.  So far I like it.

Like Tomac, I have owned a few. I believe I have had 4 or 5. I have two right now. I love these optics. The two I have don't really suffer from washout at all. I was playing with my SCAR the other day and had it washout for the VERY first time. Usually, I can still make out the triangle 99% of the time on this Mepro.

There seems to be some variation, however. The two I have just happen to be the best of the 5 I've owned. A couple of the 5 did washout more. I've spoken to Mako about a problem with one once, and they exchanged 1 for me but stated it was "still within specs."

The washout issue may or may not be a problem - it really depends on the specimen you get. Tomac may have had less variation. I think I've spoken to him about that - and he claimed that all his were more or less the same. I did have one I had to put that wash out remover LED on because it was a noticable issue compared to some of the others I've owned.

I did type a mini review of the optic here:

http://texasgunforum.com/index.php?topic=9539.0

My concern is how this would hold up to a home-invasion situation.  Is the reticle able to seen, against a light-colored target, at night, with a white weapon light?

Cool, thanks for the response

off topic, is the TRU DOT RDS available now?

just ordered an M21 for another rifle, but I sold my eotech to save for a TRU DOT RDS / MSE AQC-1

awesome!  thanks

Best sight I've ever used. I have no issues with washout, save for one condition. That condition is with a weapon light on, inside, less than 5 feet from an eggshell white wall. At that distance you don't need to have a reticle, but it is still somewhat there. The remedy for that, which I do as a habit day or night is just to leave the front sight flipped up, and no matter the light, you will see it. I've never run into any normal condition though that it wasn't pretty much perfect for the light.

If you have a 200 lumen light, and are about to be gang raped by an army of mad pastry chefs, you may actually need that front sight flipped up for contrast.

I've used it outside at night to shoot a running racoon at 40 yards, with the coon lit up with the weapon light. The reticle is bright and crisp, and the tip of the triangle is easy to focus on for precision. First shot was a hit.

My best bud borrowed my 6.8 for for his kid's first real deer hunt. His property is is marked off with stakes and flags at every 50 yards from the stand, and he went over the ranges with the boy, and I have it sighted in at 40 yards, so it's within 3 inches out to 275 yards, and I gave him instructions on holdover with it. The kid is a crack shot with anything you hand him, seriously, eagle eye. The boy ranged the deer at 250 yards and my buddy confirmed it, almost right at the flag. The kid went for a spine shot, put the tip tight on the spine, and squeezed the shot.

The deer fell over where it stood. No magnification behind it. Just the M21 and a 110gr AB. When they went down to the deer, it was dead, done, and the bullet hit about 3 inches below the spine, and blew a chunk of vertebra out and some meat. The kid said it was a good, bright triangle, and easy to hit with. He could see it regardless of where he was looking , lighting, etc , over the two days they had it in the woods.

I think you'll be pleased with it, very pleased. My buddy that borrowed it was in the 82nd AB from 2003 - 2008, and though he used aimpoints overseas in combat, he did get to shoot some with Eotechs, and with my Eotechs on my guns as well. He loves this sight, and did a good bit of practice drills with it. He found it as fast as the Eotech, which he was faster with than the Aimpoint, but likes the fact that it's ready to go, anytime, all the time. No electronics to fail, no batteries, nothing.

Get it dirty, stick it under a faucet, back in business.

BTW,. he had an Aimpoint fail him due to some issue with the circuitry or the diode. Batteries didn't fix it, so he had another one issued.

I'd say this unit, and he'll say, is close to being as rugged in most ways. He's been wanting one since he shot mine, but bills and family things keep getting in the way. I got him a PSA premium upper last year when I had extra, unexpected insurance check,  to thank him for all he's done for me over the years since I've been sick, 30 years, ( and work he does for me on my house that I can't pay him for and he won't let me ), and he's trying to save up for one to put on top of it.

No optic is perfect, but after owning Trijicon's offering, Eotechs ( second fave ), Kobras, C-Mores, Aimpoints, clones, and a few others, this as as good as it gets.

Nice.  Tha sounds awesome

I sold my eotech for one. I like it much better. No batteries, no need to turn it on, and I love the triangle reticle. The entire triangle can be used for cqb and the tip can be used to take more precise shots. I also have astigmatism and the reticle does not blur as bad as an eotech or aimpoint.

OP didn't mention his specific goals for the optic, which could matter.

I don't own one, but have shot with one before, with the bullseye reticle.  Slightly (or a bit more) tinted glass, and good for CQB/indoors/HD, but the dot is HUGE (I think it's something like 7 MOA?), with the outer ring fully bracketing a typical sight-n-see/reactive target at 25 yards.  At the same distance, the center dot covered more than the target bull, close to bull + next ring.  

Probably a great truck gun or HD/bedside optic, but wouldn't work well for my 3 gun and range use, with the bullseye reticle.  
I'd like to try the triangle reticle one of these days - I believe the triangle base is still pretty wide, but it might make a nice compromise general purpose reticle, IMO.

Again, if your primary use is truck/bedside/CQB, nothing against it, but everyone has slightly different needs.

i was ready to order the triangle reticle for the above reasons, but decided to go bullseye as this would go on a HD gun, and not one of my other "play" rifles.

Apologies, you're right, the dot is 4.5-5MOA, not 7MOA...I think I have Deltapoint stuck in my head lately. ;)
Even so, that's pretty big (for some purposes), and does indeed cover a 1" bullseye target + extra at 25 yards.

I like the optic itself, just need to try the triangle reticle one of these days..

IMHO the triangle reticle is the best, combining both speed and precision.
Tomac

I wish I could try the open X  - but have just stuck with the triangles for every one I have owned. I didn't wanna chance it...

What's the battery life like on the Tru-Dot?  

How long will it stay on before the auto shut off feature takes place?  Also, what triggers the auto shut off or what triggers it to not auto-shut off?

Completely different sight you're thinking of man.  Please post in a new thread.

I like the Open X reticle. It was intended for use with a magnifier, and it does not obscure the point of aim. One of the scopes I used in Iraq was an IOR scope with the MP-8 reticle that had interrupted crosshairs and a very fine dot in the center. Ever since then, I have been a fan of reticles that are more open in the center.



The Open X is good like the bullseye for CQB, can be used for holdovers or ranging, and does not obscure the target. I like it - it is a good concept. You aren't missing out on anything if you use the triangle reticles though. It is also good for both speed and precision.



 

Thanks for the info. No one ever seems to have one of these for me to look thru. Tomac was nice enough to let me borrow  triangle sight a long time ago - and that's what got me hooked on it.

I just got the Bullseye version off the EE for $350.  

Saw that one. Passed on it cause I'm flat broke.

very cool!

Tomac ---

Do you know how tall the triangle is on the 9 MOA version?

Sorry, I don't.
Tomac

if each side is 9 MOA, doing the pythagorean theorem makes triangle height to be about 7.8 MOA

Ahh, the good old A-squared + B-squared = C-squared.
Assuming that we know A and B, which we don't.  We only know the length of one side.

if it's an equilateral triangle (9 MOA each side) then we have the two sides.

9 MOA diagonal + 4.5 MOA (half length of one side)

with that, we know that = 9squared = 4.5squared + Xsquared

X=7.8 MOA (rounded up)

from another thread ...



http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/514858_Mako_Mepro_M21_Reflex_sight___Reticle_information.html

We're assuming equilateral.  That's what I was getting out.

looks equilateral to me :)   if it's not, 7.8 would still be very very close.

Gotta love good old Trig.  I suppose if we had angles we could translate MOA into inches, then use Sin/CoSin to figure out exact lengths.  However, I don't have a protractor and don't feel like taxing my brain in such a way!

Well.  I must say, I'm pretty disappointed with the sight, for use on a home-defense carbine.   The washout fears are entirely true.   Standing in my halfway-sunny living and aiming at a white/gray building across the street, I could not see the reticle.  If a badguy was wearing white/light grey/biege/light green, it would be impossible to see your reticle on him.  Bad news!  I also put the reticle on my Navy Blue SUV which is parked in the street in front of my house, and could very faintly see the reticle...I felt like I had squint and struggle to see it.

I tested its "home defense viability" in my two-car garage, which has no outside windows, and is lit only by three very small vents along the ground, it's nearly totally dark in there.  I measured the length of it, which is 10 yards from the door to the house to the overhead door.   I hung, side by side, a white shirt, a grey shirt, a black shirt, and a light blue shirt along the door.  Then I walked back the 10 yards, turned off all the lights and activated my weapons light (the TLR1-HP).  On the white shirt, there was no reticle at all.  On the grey and light blue shirts, only the faintest ghosting of a reticle could be seen.  On the black shirt, you could see the reticle, but it was very dim.  I tried rapidly shouldering the weapon and dry firing (with a Snap-Cap Dummy in the chamber) and it felt very slow, I had to search for the reticle.  

To compare, I took an Aimpoint PRO and tried the same test --- shirts hung on the door, lights off, weaponlight on --- at the 5th brightness click.  While not overly bright, the reticle was visible on all four shirts.  Rapid shouldering and dry-firing was noticeably quicker than with the Mepro.  When clicked to the 6th setting, the reticle was bright and easy to acquire on all four targets, and snap-shooting was much easier.

Aside from this, the sight is pretty cool.  It's clearly built like a tank.  The built-in QD mount is nice.  When shooting from an outside area, whether in the shade or sun, into another outdoor area, the reticle was very bright and easy to pick up.  

Overall, I think for 95% of the time it would be good.  But for a bump in the night, with a weaponlight, maybe not so much.  

Thanks for reading.

My guess is it's most likely dirty or possibly defective. My experience, and most users are like Mako Defense says.

No, it's that it is not dim, it's literally that it is not usable.  
I will try the washing under running water deal and repeat my tests later.  Maybe my dogs will play along, lol.

Here's what I'm talking about:

My phone camera is at the top left of the phone, so the reticle is not centered in the photos.  In this photo, I am standing in a darker hallway, about 25 feet away, pointing the reticle onto my wife's nose.  


In this photo, I have the shades to my office window open, looking out across the street at the neighbors house.  The reticle is placed on the white section of wall next to the left-most archway.


In both cases, I am completely unable to see the reticles.  
Those are two common home-defense type scenarios: shooting out of your home, across the street at a mob/looter/rioter in a SHTF situation, and shooting from a darkened hallway/room into a better-lit room at a home invader, whether with weaponlight or ambient room light .

I have one mounted on my IDF 653 clone. I'm using it with a carry handle mount.  If i aim it at a very bright light source such as a lamp itself I do get wash out. They do make a washout remover that helps. However though the with it being mounted on a carry handle the iron sights are still visible like a 1/3 co witness. So for me washout is not an issue.. For me using it on my IDF  653 clone makes sense.  Would I run it on a m4 with folding sights most likely I would not. That's what my Aimpoints are for. I'm  happy with it for my uses's . As with any optic there are pro's and cons. If you understand both you should be able to use it . It's a very well built sight. If i had to trust my life with it i would do so in heart beat.  At the end of day pick a good optic that meets your needs and train with it

Bossman, I get a bright reticle under those conditions, like if you're standing in direct sunlight bright.

Your sight is either dirty or defective, seriously. In the one with your wife, it would be lit up like a Christmas tree.

Mako Defense-

Maybe you can chime in here?  I washed it as you instructed, still dim, as Pavlov and the photos show.   Does Mepro repair defectice sights>

Be that as it may, what do a truckgun and a bear gun have in common?  They are used outside, w here there is plenty of ambient light.  I want you to take one of your sights, go stand in an interior room with some sunlight, about 5-10 feet back from the window, and aim outside at a light-colored tan/grey/white target.  Can you see your reticle?  Can you photograph it? Because by my photos, clearly, I can't see mine under those conditions.

Thank you for the reply!

I appreciate the knowledge : )

I will try it with a dimmer light, and see how it works.

I love the whole concept of it, and I dont' want a sight I don't use either!

Sigman, some people experience it to a degree. In my case, only a slight movement will generally put me in a spot where in that rare washout will be negated simply by the sight gathering more light a few inches away, or less light where the tritium will light it more. Most of the time if it's going to happen you will be in a static position and your target will as well. If you or your target are moving, as in SD, combat , hunting etc, the condition will last only milliseconds, and your brain will actually continue to "see" that reticle and track with it.

If you are going to be static, and in that lighting condition, with no choice of movement, there is an option. Tomac , I believe has used it and tested it, as well as several others here. I haven't seen the need myself, but it works. It's cheap, simple, and effective. 99% of the time you won't need it, but the solution exists.

None of these sights are perfect, even battery powered, all with pros and cons, but this is by far the best sight I've used, especially when comparing it to others like it.

The solution is WOR, washout remover. It turns the M21 into a tri power sight , and does it cheaply. It's robust and effective, and it puts this sight in a league that would cost you double or triple the M21s price.



http://www.thebangswitch.com/the-m21-and-washout-remover-wor/