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Posted: 8/20/2014 6:07:00 PM EDT
[#1]
At 25 and 10 yards, there isn't going to be that much of a difference in placement with a barrel of 7" and above . So why not just do 25?
If you're looking at precision in 10 yds, it's too late. |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 7:22:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Makes no sense at all to zero your RDS or anything else on a rifle at 10 yards.
My full size .45 auto is zeroed at 7 yards for home defense. |
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Posted: 8/20/2014 7:54:04 PM EDT
[#3]
100 yards.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 7:59:46 PM EDT
[#4]
A rifle zeroed at 10 yds has no utility except at close range. At 50yds you're 6 in high, at 100 yds you're 12 in high. Any number of other zero distances will give you utility at both medium range and close range. Read this as it makes a good case why RDS should be zeroed at 100 yds. http://www.f2sconsulting.com/pages/f2s-tips.htm
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Posted: 8/21/2014 2:17:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Actually a zero of about 225-235 yards will have a maximum midrange trajectory of about 3" high at 150 and will be about 2.5 high at 100. You will first cross the line of sight at about 50 yards, and will still be only 3" low out to close to 275 or a bit more.
Using such a zero you will hit within 3" of your point of aim from the end of your muzzle out past 250. You can hit center body mass torsos from armslength to 300 yards. This is a true "point blank" zero. It provides no meaningful gain to zero any closer, and you lose the benefit of the rifle's trajectory capabilities. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 2:53:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
It makes sense to me if your going to use your AR-15 in a close quarters situation. It only makes sense if you'll never shoot beyond maybe 12 yards. It's a ridiculous concept. It's very possible, even probable I'd say, that your optic would not have enough adjustment range to get to such a crazy POA. What makes sense is to learn your holdover for CQB. If you can't do that, get a firearm with minimal sight height over bore so that it's not an issue. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 8:28:44 AM EDT
[#7]
I still cling to my 300 yard BZO for all my rifles/carbines, which on the short end is a 36 yard zero. Least amount of deviation without hold over 0-300 and it works for me. That said, at 10 yards, it shouldn't really be a matter of "zero." It's a height over bore issue. Know your hold and keep an actual functioning zero.
If it truly is a "home defense" scenario, I am going to walk him to the ground by pumping as many rounds as it takes in a 6-inch vital zone in his chest. I can do that without hold over on most 0-300 style zeros(25/50/100/300). Precision shooting at CQB distances is a matter of knowing your hold, not zeroing your gun for point blank. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 8:39:02 AM EDT
[#8]
He should buy an Eotech and sight in at 50. Bottom of the ring is dead on from 7-12 yards.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 10:08:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still cling to my 300 yard BZO for all my rifles/carbines, which on the short end is a 36 yard zero. Least amount of deviation without hold over 0-300 and it works for me. That said, at 10 yards, it shouldn't really be a matter of "zero." It's a height over bore issue. Know your hold and keep an actual functioning zero. If it truly is a "home defense" scenario, I am going to walk him to the ground by pumping as many rounds as it takes in a 6-inch vital zone in his chest. I can do that without hold over on most 0-300 style zeros(25/50/100/300). Precision shooting at CQB distances is a matter of knowing your hold, not zeroing your gun for point blank. I agree with this |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 11:11:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually a zero of about 225-235 yards will have a maximum midrange trajectory of about 3" high at 150 and will be about 2.5 high at 100. You will first cross the line of sight at about 25 yards, and will still be only 3" low out to close to 275 or a bit more. Using such a zero you will hit within 3" of your point of aim from the end of your muzzle out past 250. You can hit center body mass torsos from armslength to 300 yards. This is a true "point blank" zero. It provides no meaningful gain to zero any closer, and you lose the benefit of the rifle's trajectory capabilities. As far as I know from experience, if you cross over at 25, you will be 8 to 10 inches high at 100 with a carbine. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 11:22:38 AM EDT
[#11]
clown |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 1:40:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I recently zeroed my irons and optics (lower third) at 25-yards. However, I have a friend who goes about it slightly different and it makes sense to me. First off, my AR-15 is setup for personal defense. Not my primary go-to firearm, but that's what it was built for. My friend zeros his irons at 25-yards but zeros his Red Dot at 10-yards for personal defense purposes. It makes sense to me if your going to use your AR-15 in a close quarters situation. He still has his irons zeroed at 25-yards for anything that would warrant a longer distance shot. So I'd like to get some feedback from others, both pros and cons to this method. See now this is why you should never listen to a "friend" advice. This is how you get killed. There is a reason why the military zero the rifle at 25 yards and the reason is purely to do with the fact that as the distance increases, the point of impact vs point of aim remain relatively within a small margin. There's little veriation and you can "guess" the point of impact at some distance. With a 10yards zero, you're looking at a wild unpredictable pattern. Here's a m855 zero'd at 25 yards: 
As you can see it follows a very good pattern and the zero is predictable at any distance. Now here's the same ammo zero'd at 10 yards: 
A very different picture. Look at the margin of error in just 100 yards. You're looking at a wild zero with a 10 yr zero. With 25 yr zero, the difference in just 100 yards is very minimal and beyond that is just as minimal. My advice, zero at 25 yards. Preferably zero at 100 yards / meters if you can. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 2:20:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a reason why the military zero the rifle at 25 yards "The military" does not zero for 25 yards nor should anyone else. 25 yard range requires a target which compensates for height over bore, so the resulting sight zero is not for 25 yards. A simple google image search for 25 yard zero target will give you plenty of examples. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 5:57:27 PM EDT
[#14]
50 yard zero, shoot COM.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 6:11:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As far as I know from experience, if you cross over at 25, you will be 8 to 10 inches high at 100 with a carbine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Actually a zero of about 225-235 yards will have a maximum midrange trajectory of about 3" high at 150 and will be about 2.5 high at 100. You will first cross the line of sight at about 25 yards, and will still be only 3" low out to close to 275 or a bit more. Using such a zero you will hit within 3" of your point of aim from the end of your muzzle out past 250. You can hit center body mass torsos from armslength to 300 yards. This is a true "point blank" zero. It provides no meaningful gain to zero any closer, and you lose the benefit of the rifle's trajectory capabilities. As far as I know from experience, if you cross over at 25, you will be 8 to 10 inches high at 100 with a carbine. You are correct. Brain fart. Meant to say 50. Remainder of my post is right. I have fixed my mistake. Thanks. |
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Posted: 8/21/2014 8:17:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Can you guys actually see the target 50-100 yards away in order to zero it with the iron sights? I have mine zeroed at 25 and it wasn't easy but I did get it inside 2".
I guess I'll try the 50 yard next time I go to the range. I know it needed at least 50 yard zero and my AR's for HD. I have my laser zeroed at 25 as well but it's close to the barrel so my hold wouldn't change much but I can't see the sights at night so the laser will have to come in til I do something about the sights. I measured 2.30" from the center of the bore to the base of the front sight and 1.24" from the laser beam to the center of the bore. Quite a difference. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 12:09:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Here is the trajectory for my 5.56 Barnes 55 grain TSX per my chronograph which averages right at true 3,000 fps MV from my particular 16" carbine barrel. The bullet drops are in "come ups" for elevation change on the turrets, so reverse the negative and positive. -3 at 150 means 3" high at 150.
You can see that for this particular load it is very close to a 50 yard zero. It is 1.22" low at 25. Programs like Strelok take into consideration the height of the scope or iron sights above the bore, and trajectory will be a bit different. Yes, you can use 25 to get on the paper, and can shoot good enough groups at 50 with iron sights, once on the paper at 25 to get a decently accurate 50 yard zero. Average shooters can shoot 2-3" 50 yard groups at 50. With practice, better. 
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Posted: 8/22/2014 12:30:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Go back and zero at 50 or 100 yds, I personally have a 50yd zero. Then go get some training so you know where to hold to compensate for the sight over bore. Training is your friend better than all the extra mags, ammo and guns if your worried about self defense.
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Posted: 8/22/2014 12:44:34 AM EDT
[#19]
a 10 yard zero will make that sight useless for anything other than 10 yards. Those rounds will be heading to Pluto at all other practical ranges. 25 is too close IMHO. Zero it for 50 yards, and accept that you will be shooting around 3" low when shooting at distances close enough that 3" doesn't matter anyway. my personal favorite is the 200 yard zero (which is also the same impact as the 60 yard zero, if you don't have access to a 200 yard range). I like it because that had the greatest distance zone where point blank is within 1.5 inches of impact zone. Which is to say, zero aim hold will be within 1.5" of impact everywhere between about 25 yards to 225 yards. And any closer is only about 2" low or so. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 3:15:34 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 100 yards. A huge con of a 25 or less zero is how high your bullets will go out to 300, with a 100 yard zero your about 3 inches low from 25 and in which is very easy to get used too.
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Posted: 8/22/2014 8:49:45 AM EDT
[#21]
1. A 10yrd zero is great if you want to shoot clear over someone at 25yrd. You and your friend clearly do not understand how this works.
2. I'm amazed the optic your friend is using will ever zero at 10yrd on an AR-15. Most will not adjust that far ( for a reason ). 3. Your friend thinks a red dot is good for 10yrd but not good for 25yrd?
Both of you should stop "thinking" and seek professional training. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 11:10:20 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually a zero of about 225-235 yards will have a maximum midrange trajectory of about 3" high at 150 and will be about 2.5 high at 100. You will first cross the line of sight at about 50 yards, and will still be only 3" low out to close to 275 or a bit more. Using such a zero you will hit within 3" of your point of aim from the end of your muzzle out past 250. You can hit center body mass torsos from armslength to 300 yards. This is a true "point blank" zero. It provides no meaningful gain to zero any closer, and you lose the benefit of the rifle's trajectory capabilities. This. 50/250 yard zero is a good HD zero IMO. The 60/200 yard zero seems to be the best for 200 yards and under... but I have easy access to a 50 yard range.. so 50 it is |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 12:59:30 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. 50/250 yard zero is a good HD zero IMO. The 60/200 yard zero seems to be the best for 200 yards and under... but I have easy access to a 50 yard range.. so 50 it is Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Actually a zero of about 225-235 yards will have a maximum midrange trajectory of about 3" high at 150 and will be about 2.5 high at 100. You will first cross the line of sight at about 50 yards, and will still be only 3" low out to close to 275 or a bit more. Using such a zero you will hit within 3" of your point of aim from the end of your muzzle out past 250. You can hit center body mass torsos from armslength to 300 yards. This is a true "point blank" zero. It provides no meaningful gain to zero any closer, and you lose the benefit of the rifle's trajectory capabilities. This. 50/250 yard zero is a good HD zero IMO. The 60/200 yard zero seems to be the best for 200 yards and under... but I have easy access to a 50 yard range.. so 50 it is I think 50 yard zero is the best because most ranges have a 50 yrd line, you can still see the holes using a spotting scope, and it covers a diverse amount of engagement zones without utilizing holdovers. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 4:56:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think 50 yard zero is the best because most ranges have a 50 yrd line, you can still see the holes using a spotting scope, and it covers a diverse amount of engagement zones without utilizing holdovers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually a zero of about 225-235 yards will have a maximum midrange trajectory of about 3" high at 150 and will be about 2.5 high at 100. You will first cross the line of sight at about 50 yards, and will still be only 3" low out to close to 275 or a bit more. Using such a zero you will hit within 3" of your point of aim from the end of your muzzle out past 250. You can hit center body mass torsos from armslength to 300 yards. This is a true "point blank" zero. It provides no meaningful gain to zero any closer, and you lose the benefit of the rifle's trajectory capabilities. This. 50/250 yard zero is a good HD zero IMO. The 60/200 yard zero seems to be the best for 200 yards and under... but I have easy access to a 50 yard range.. so 50 it is I think 50 yard zero is the best because most ranges have a 50 yrd line, you can still see the holes using a spotting scope, and it covers a diverse amount of engagement zones without utilizing holdovers. +1. Just know your approximate hold over when you're doing CQB. I shot my AR pistol in a pistol range (for fun  ) and knew at 10-15 yards I was holding 2-2.5'' high.
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Posted: 8/22/2014 5:17:34 PM EDT
[#25]
50 yard zero for the win with an RDS.
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Posted: 8/22/2014 5:52:29 PM EDT
[#26]
SWAT teams actually also do that for the breach/entry guns. They are sighted @ around 10 yards.
Apparently i was given wrong information, see my post a few below. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 6:11:04 PM EDT
[#27]
For inside 10 yards, it would make more sense to me to add a visible laser and zero the laser at a short distance. Then keep the red dot optic zeroed to be functional across the rifle's effective engagement range.
That and know your rifle and ammo so you can make your adjustments for distance, elevation, and windage. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 6:27:55 PM EDT
[#28]
I got no problem zeroing your red dot at 10 yards if it's your home defense gun. Of course that assumes your using a 12gauge that would be ideal for 10 yard and under business. Otherwise, do a conventional zero and learn your holds. Don't let a simple thing like zero distance end up making your gun unusable at further range.
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Posted: 8/22/2014 8:15:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SWAT teams actually also do that for the breach/entry guns. They are sighted @ around 10 yards. Which team uses that as their sight in procedure? I've worked with several, trained with many, and NO ONE I know does this. LEOs can't predict their engagement distances any more than anyone else can. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 8:22:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which team uses that as their sight in procedure? I've worked with several, trained with many, and NO ONE I know does this. LEOs can't predict their engagement distances any more than anyone else can. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SWAT teams actually also do that for the breach/entry guns. They are sighted @ around 10 yards. Which team uses that as their sight in procedure? I've worked with several, trained with many, and NO ONE I know does this. LEOs can't predict their engagement distances any more than anyone else can. Yep, never heard of this. I'd bet those weapons would be shooting over heads at 50 yards |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 8:51:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SWAT teams actually also do that for the breach/entry guns. They are sighted @ around 10 yards. Pray they never have to enter a industrial building, shopping center or china mart. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 10:33:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pray they never have to enter a industrial building, shopping center or china mart. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SWAT teams actually also do that for the breach/entry guns. They are sighted @ around 10 yards. Pray they never have to enter a industrial building, shopping center or china mart. Why on earth would they do that? For 10 yards? Just run a barrel mounted laser, which is closer to the axis of the bore. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 2:47:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SWAT teams actually also do that for the breach/entry guns. They are sighted @ around 10 yards. Yeah.....about that..... how about NO. I served on as SWAT Team for several years, even functioned as a SWAT Trainer for my team, and we nor anyone we ever worked or trained with EVER zeroed at 10 yards. And my guys got around, a lot of joint training with a lot of different Teams. Both my subgun and my AR were both equipped with EOTechs and both zeros were mandated at 50 yards. I went back and changed my rifle zero back to 36/300 because that was what I was comfortable with on my holds and I am the one accountable for those rounds. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 2:57:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://i55.tinypic.com/2ccrz1j.jpg a 10 yard zero will make that sight useless for anything other than 10 yards. Those rounds will be heading to Pluto at all other practical ranges. 25 is too close IMHO. Zero it for 50 yards, and accept that you will be shooting around 3" low when shooting at distances close enough that 3" doesn't matter anyway. my personal favorite is the 200 yard zero (which is also the same impact as the 60 yard zero, if you don't have access to a 200 yard range). I like it because that had the greatest distance zone where point blank is within 1.5 inches of impact zone. Which is to say, zero aim hold will be within 1.5" of impact everywhere between about 25 yards to 225 yards. And any closer is only about 2" low or so. Wow, so a 50 yard zero looks the best. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 3:04:55 AM EDT
[#35]
10 yards is 30'. One time I went around measuring distances in my house to pattern buckshot. IIRC 30 feet was the max distance accross any room in my house. If you are a city dweller and will only be doing home defense and 30 feet is the max ditance in your house then that'd be fine. But IMO you would be better off to at least sight it in at 25 or 50 yards even if you will NEVER shoot that far. Honestly, at 30 feet, I think I could hit center of mass without even useing sights. Debating "zeros" and "holdovers" at that distance is
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Posted: 8/23/2014 5:17:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah.....about that..... how about NO. I served on as SWAT Team for several years, even functioned as a SWAT Trainer for my team, and we nor anyone we ever worked or trained with EVER zeroed at 10 yards. And my guys got around, a lot of joint training with a lot of different Teams. Both my subgun and my AR were both equipped with EOTechs and both zeros were mandated at 50 yards. I went back and changed my rifle zero back to 36/300 because that was what I was comfortable with on my holds and I am the one accountable for those rounds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SWAT teams actually also do that for the breach/entry guns. They are sighted @ around 10 yards. Yeah.....about that..... how about NO. I served on as SWAT Team for several years, even functioned as a SWAT Trainer for my team, and we nor anyone we ever worked or trained with EVER zeroed at 10 yards. And my guys got around, a lot of joint training with a lot of different Teams. Both my subgun and my AR were both equipped with EOTechs and both zeros were mandated at 50 yards. I went back and changed my rifle zero back to 36/300 because that was what I was comfortable with on my holds and I am the one accountable for those rounds. Maybe he is talking about the KC or MN Swat Teams? KC = (K)eyboard (C)ommando MN = (M)all (N)inja Do you even need sights at 10 yds? 
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Posted: 8/23/2014 5:57:04 AM EDT
[#37]
Thats what i was told by a guy that works with them. I have no experience in that matter.
"They have their red dots to hit to hit where they are aim at 10 yards." If they have to shoot farther i was told they bring up their iron sights and turn off the red dot. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 11:02:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats what i was told by a guy that works with them. I have no experience in that matter. "They have their red dots to hit to hit where they are aim at 10 yards." If they have to shoot farther i was told they bring up their iron sights and turn off the red dot. No offense, but the guy that told you that is full of crap. No one operates like this in the real world. Engagement ranges are always variable and are dictated by the situation. Trained folks zero at a known range that matches the ballistics on their particular system and practice enough to know their holds for using that zero at various ranges needed. There are trade offs as to what you choose as a zero range based on the impact points of various cartridges. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 6:52:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats what i was told by a guy that works with them. I have no experience in that matter. "They have their red dots to hit to hit where they are aim at 10 yards." If they have to shoot farther i was told they bring up their iron sights and turn off the red dot. Your friend lied to you. Whats worse, was rather then admit his lie, he told you a consecutive series of lies to save face. Call your friend out. If he repents he is salvageable, if not you won't ever be able to trust him or his counsel. People lie all the time, and it's not a big deal. But spouting these kinds of lies get people killed. They also hinder your ability to personally grow and mature your skill set.... which also could get you killed. Not trying to be over dramatic about it, just calling it like I see it. This 10-yard zero business is so far out in left field that NO professional would even allow it to be. They would smash this into submission like a runaway freight train and immediately end that. The firearms community has an long history of people who inhibit new and creative thought due to past experience and institutional inertia. Please understand that is not our intention in this thread. We're trying to help you, not belittle. These mistakes could cost you or someone else your life and that is not to be trifled with. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 7:16:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Ill stick with my 25 meter zero. 10 yard zero sounds like a good way to lose a gunfight.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 2:24:34 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ill stick with my 25 meter zero. 10 yard zero sounds like a good way to lose a gunfight. You are certainly welcome to do so, but to post it just one more time:
I'd suggest sticking with a 50 yard zero (which is also about a 230 yard zero. Or my personal preference 60/200 yard zero - note you can achieve similar affect by zeroing ~1.5" high at 100 yards.). It will cost you very little at 25 yards - a mere 1" low. And be a much more pragmatic zero for the entire expanse of likely scenario ranges that may include outdoors. 25 yard zero will be half a foot high at 100 yards, and over a foot high at 200. That's enough to be getting complete misses. For those 10 yard encounters, the options are to just be aware that all practical zero'd rifles will be shooting 2" low - not a big deal. Or perhaps mount a separate laser closer to the axis of the bore. On a side note - observe that the 100 yard zero isn't that great of a choice in some ways. Note how the arc from that zero pretty much tops out at 100 yards, and then falls. Zero it for 200 yards and it's only around 1.5" high at 100 yards. More importantly, and that bullet will be within 1.5" of point of aim over a span of about 200 yards (i.e. between 30 yards and 225 yards). I prefer a 200 yard zero to a 50 yard zero because of my (arbitrary) spec of what has the lengthiest "point blank" aim reference that is within 1.5" of aim. Which is that one. For me, I concluded 225 yards to be a realistic practical maximum likely range for an M4 style rifle for me. Not a big deal at all, but that's why I slightly prefer the 60 yard zero over the 50 yard zero. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:51:34 AM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:04:41 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are certainly welcome to do so, but to post it just one more time: http://i55.tinypic.com/2ccrz1j.jpg I'd suggest sticking with a 50 yard zero (which is also about a 230 yard zero. Or my personal preference 60/200 yard zero - note you can achieve similar affect by zeroing ~1.5" high at 100 yards.). It will cost you very little at 25 yards - a mere 1" low. And be a much more pragmatic zero for the entire expanse of likely scenario ranges that may include outdoors. 25 yard zero will be half a foot high at 100 yards, and over a foot high at 200. That's enough to be getting complete misses. For those 10 yard encounters, the options are to just be aware that all practical zero'd rifles will be shooting 2" low - not a big deal. Or perhaps mount a separate laser closer to the axis of the bore. On a side note - observe that the 100 yard zero isn't that great of a choice in some ways. Note how the arc from that zero pretty much tops out at 100 yards, and then falls. Zero it for 200 yards and it's only around 1.5" high at 100 yards. More importantly, and that bullet will be within 1.5" of point of aim over a span of about 200 yards (i.e. between 30 yards and 225 yards). I prefer a 200 yard zero to a 50 yard zero because of my (arbitrary) spec of what has the lengthiest "point blank" aim reference that is within 1.5" of aim. Which is that one. For me, I concluded 225 yards to be a realistic practical maximum likely range for an M4 style rifle for me. Not a big deal at all, but that's why I slightly prefer the 60 yard zero over the 50 yard zero. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ill stick with my 25 meter zero. 10 yard zero sounds like a good way to lose a gunfight. You are certainly welcome to do so, but to post it just one more time: http://i55.tinypic.com/2ccrz1j.jpg I'd suggest sticking with a 50 yard zero (which is also about a 230 yard zero. Or my personal preference 60/200 yard zero - note you can achieve similar affect by zeroing ~1.5" high at 100 yards.). It will cost you very little at 25 yards - a mere 1" low. And be a much more pragmatic zero for the entire expanse of likely scenario ranges that may include outdoors. 25 yard zero will be half a foot high at 100 yards, and over a foot high at 200. That's enough to be getting complete misses. For those 10 yard encounters, the options are to just be aware that all practical zero'd rifles will be shooting 2" low - not a big deal. Or perhaps mount a separate laser closer to the axis of the bore. On a side note - observe that the 100 yard zero isn't that great of a choice in some ways. Note how the arc from that zero pretty much tops out at 100 yards, and then falls. Zero it for 200 yards and it's only around 1.5" high at 100 yards. More importantly, and that bullet will be within 1.5" of point of aim over a span of about 200 yards (i.e. between 30 yards and 225 yards). I prefer a 200 yard zero to a 50 yard zero because of my (arbitrary) spec of what has the lengthiest "point blank" aim reference that is within 1.5" of aim. Which is that one. For me, I concluded 225 yards to be a realistic practical maximum likely range for an M4 style rifle for me. Not a big deal at all, but that's why I slightly prefer the 60 yard zero over the 50 yard zero. Right on. I prefer to use the same methods/distance that our military uses (25 METER) with my 25 METER zeroing targets with my already programmed into my head holds. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 9:44:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats what i was told by a guy that works with them. I have no experience in that matter. "They have their red dots to hit to hit where they are aim at 10 yards." If they have to shoot farther i was told they bring up their iron sights and turn off the red dot. 
nice |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:14:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats what i was told by a guy that works with them. I have no experience in that matter. "They have their red dots to hit to hit where they are aim at 10 yards." If they have to shoot farther i was told they bring up their iron sights and turn off the red dot. This is a joke, right? |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 3:08:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a joke, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thats what i was told by a guy that works with them. I have no experience in that matter. "They have their red dots to hit to hit where they are aim at 10 yards." If they have to shoot farther i was told they bring up their iron sights and turn off the red dot. This is a joke, right? |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:32:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a joke, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thats what i was told by a guy that works with them. I have no experience in that matter. "They have their red dots to hit to hit where they are aim at 10 yards." If they have to shoot farther i was told they bring up their iron sights and turn off the red dot. This is a joke, right? It was either made up or serious, maybe both? Lol never know. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:27:36 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryGood read. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:29:08 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are certainly welcome to do so, but to post it just one more time: http://i55.tinypic.com/2ccrz1j.jpg I'd suggest sticking with a 50 yard zero (which is also about a 230 yard zero. Or my personal preference 60/200 yard zero - note you can achieve similar affect by zeroing ~1.5" high at 100 yards.). It will cost you very little at 25 yards - a mere 1" low. And be a much more pragmatic zero for the entire expanse of likely scenario ranges that may include outdoors. 25 yard zero will be half a foot high at 100 yards, and over a foot high at 200. That's enough to be getting complete misses. For those 10 yard encounters, the options are to just be aware that all practical zero'd rifles will be shooting 2" low - not a big deal. Or perhaps mount a separate laser closer to the axis of the bore. On a side note - observe that the 100 yard zero isn't that great of a choice in some ways. Note how the arc from that zero pretty much tops out at 100 yards, and then falls. Zero it for 200 yards and it's only around 1.5" high at 100 yards. More importantly, and that bullet will be within 1.5" of point of aim over a span of about 200 yards (i.e. between 30 yards and 225 yards). I prefer a 200 yard zero to a 50 yard zero because of my (arbitrary) spec of what has the lengthiest "point blank" aim reference that is within 1.5" of aim. Which is that one. For me, I concluded 225 yards to be a realistic practical maximum likely range for an M4 style rifle for me. Not a big deal at all, but that's why I slightly prefer the 60 yard zero over the 50 yard zero. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ill stick with my 25 meter zero. 10 yard zero sounds like a good way to lose a gunfight. You are certainly welcome to do so, but to post it just one more time: http://i55.tinypic.com/2ccrz1j.jpg I'd suggest sticking with a 50 yard zero (which is also about a 230 yard zero. Or my personal preference 60/200 yard zero - note you can achieve similar affect by zeroing ~1.5" high at 100 yards.). It will cost you very little at 25 yards - a mere 1" low. And be a much more pragmatic zero for the entire expanse of likely scenario ranges that may include outdoors. 25 yard zero will be half a foot high at 100 yards, and over a foot high at 200. That's enough to be getting complete misses. For those 10 yard encounters, the options are to just be aware that all practical zero'd rifles will be shooting 2" low - not a big deal. Or perhaps mount a separate laser closer to the axis of the bore. On a side note - observe that the 100 yard zero isn't that great of a choice in some ways. Note how the arc from that zero pretty much tops out at 100 yards, and then falls. Zero it for 200 yards and it's only around 1.5" high at 100 yards. More importantly, and that bullet will be within 1.5" of point of aim over a span of about 200 yards (i.e. between 30 yards and 225 yards). I prefer a 200 yard zero to a 50 yard zero because of my (arbitrary) spec of what has the lengthiest "point blank" aim reference that is within 1.5" of aim. Which is that one. For me, I concluded 225 yards to be a realistic practical maximum likely range for an M4 style rifle for me. Not a big deal at all, but that's why I slightly prefer the 60 yard zero over the 50 yard zero. I would love to see the 10yrd zero bullet path on that graph. Maybe that would make people understand why a 10yrd zero is a BAD idea. |
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Posted: 8/28/2014 9:50:09 PM EDT
[#50]
How far does the bullet travel before the arc? I guess the gravity affect it the moment it leave the muzzle.
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