A couple of weeks ago I put together a spare parts AR with components I had lying around.  I have several other ARs with high end optics and did not want to spend big bucks on this one.

I bought one of the new Primary Arms 4X Compact Prism scopes.  It actually looks and feels to be very well made and the BDC is right on.  The glass is very clear.  For $260 it is a nice scope. I took it out to the range last week and zeroed it in at 100 yds and with M-193 the BDC was accurate to 600 yds.  The eye relief on it was better than any of my TA-31s or TA-01s.

The finish is good and the controls are crisp.  The reticle is very readable.  I was going to put it on a Trijicon ACOG mount but the mount that came with it seems sturdy enough.

While I know all the ARFCOM Tier 1 Operators will scoff at it and while I don't think I would trust it for a year in the mountains of Afghanistan under harsh combat conditions it seems to be a sturdy little range/hunting/defense scope. If you are looking for a decent quality afforable scope to tide you over until you can afford a $1200 ACOG this may be your choice.

I have never managed to break a PA optic. I have several with chunks taken out of them from use and tripod stupidity but never a failure.

This sight is on my short list but I will want a QD to swap my longer scope onto that rifle. I have their 4-16x, 5 micros, their m3, 2 reflex,
and last was their 1x much like this 4x. Big fan from way back.

I have ACOGs RmR EoTech, and I don't tolerate crappy optics.



Keep us up to date on its performance.

I also grabbed one last week and tested it out this weekend.  I was very impressed, the quality of the scope is outstanding, i love the reticle, and the eye relief is excellent.  My only complaint is the mount, which can easily be replaced.

I just picked up the same optic. I have one of their red dots and decided to pick up the 4x for the same reason you did. I am hoping to get a chance to zero it within a few days.

A couple of years ago I did a build for a friend and used a Burris AR 332, which is similar type scope.  It cost about the same.

The Primary Arms scope seems to be a better made scope.  I think the ballistic reticle is better.

The only advantage to the Burris is that it weighs a couple of ounces less.

Would love to see an actual comparison of this versus an ACOG.

What kind of comparison would you like to see?

My TA-31s have the same magnification and they both have a good BDC.  They weigh about the same.  The PA uses a battery to light up the reticle and the ACOG uses the light gathering fiber and tritium.  The PA has better eye relief than the TA-31 but about the same as the TA-11.  They both have clear glass.

The real difference is in the durability.  The ACOG is a battle scope for the military.  The PA is a civilian scope for 1/5th the price.

When the zombies come I will probably use one of my 6920s with an ACOG or Aimpoint.  However, short of an all war I think the PA will be fine.  It will be fine for the range, hunting in the bush or self defense in a Katrina type SHTF situation.

I suspect that 50 years from now if my grandchildren still have the ARs I have now they will still be using the PA the same as my ACOGs.

Since they have just recently come out for sale there is no record for reliability or durability.  I am not going to spend another $260 to buy one for a test.  I think it will fine based upon the workmanship in the scope and everything else I have seen and I am sure I will get my money's worth out of it.

I think that nowadays you are seeing something that didn't exist in the past.  You are now seeing good quality less expensive scopes like PA and Lucid.  Probably the result of cheap Chinese labor and technology.    In the past it was either buy an expensive scope or a cheap piece of junk.  Cheap scopes like Leapers, NuStar,  Tasco types that are not worth anything.  This PA seems to be a much better scope than the inexpensive scopes of the past.

Any update from the OP and the guys who purchased one of these?

Any tips or tricks etc?

I just bought mine today and it will be here on Friday.

Thanks for any further feedback you can provide and help you can give me on this scope so I know what I'm looking at and how to adjust, read, etc. this thing

This is my first AR and my first scope ever .... so any tips would be great! :)

Thanks again

I have taken it to the range twice.  It works as advertised.  No tricks or tips needed.  Zero it in at 100 yds and the BDC works.

The only thing I can say is make sure that the bottom screws holding the scope to the mount are tight before you take the scope out.  The proper size hex wrench is included in the box.

Thanks for the info ... good to know it's working like it should .... I will be sure to tightten them bad boys down ... glad to know the tool is there and I don't have to use a flimsy flat-head screwdriver.

How do you like the ACSS Reticle? Any tips and pointers? You shot at any distances further then 100 yrds yet?

I like the reticle.  It is as usable as an ACOG.  The only minor complaint that I have is that I would like to have a green option in addition to the red but then that would drive the cost up.

I zeroed the BDC at 100 yds and for the M-193 ammo I was using it was right on at the 600 yd berm with a 16 inch barrel.  I wasn't shooting at paper at 600 yds but I could tell by the impact on the dirt that the bullet was hitting where I was aiming.  The next time I take it out I will put up some 18 inch targets and see what the shot groups at 600 yds look like.  My impression from taking it to the range twice is that the scope and the BDC can deliver what the rifle, ammo and my shooting skills can produce.

Do you recommend the the PA mount thumb screws to just be tightened down by hand or use a tool for a little more torgue on the 2 screws?

Initial thoughts (though I am brand new to optics to my thoughts are compared to nothing really) ...........

Damn good looking scope so far (minus my astigmatism in my right eye that I did not know would make the reticle look so bad).
Clear glass ... I took this outside and everything is crystal clear, no weird coloring, blurring etc.
Hefty well built (wish though is was a touch lighter but I knew the weight ahead of time) optic, feels like a damn expensive optic.
Reticle when I can see it is Killer ... great levels for illumination and today's 90 degree sunny bright say the level 8/9 was Perfect ... the 11 stands out in direct sunlight perfect!
Packaged like it was a $1K optic, amazed at the packaging and presentation out of the box.
PA stock mount seems great ... if you need constant swapping then the QD would be good but overall this thing is just fine.
The caps fit great and feel decently made ... I thought they would be a bit more solid and well built but still very very good caps (no need for BC I wouldn't think).
4X gets a damn nice distance and still looks great for close up as well (though reall close quarters the 1X's will shine ... I will be getting the PA reflex red-dot to mount on top of this scopes picatinny rail one they are in stock).

I of course have not shot with it yet or can attest to that these are just my out of the box thoughts is all.

I see all these other crazy thousand plus dollar ACOG's and I know they are something else but man for a weekend warrior these kind of optics are a 100% no brainer I think.

More to come

FedEx showed up with my optic while I was running errands, so it was waiting for me when I got home. Did the unboxing ceremony (lol) and then setup the optic on my M&P.

Mounts nice, solid and relatively quick even with the OEM mount. There's a trick to the Vortex and PA mounts. A flat head, or similar will tighten them sufficiently, just tightening from one side of the nut. I've done it enough, to know it works.

Really impressed so far. Packaging (which means nothing) is nice. Build quality is excellent. In fact, they have stepped it up a bit, since whenever my fixed-base micro dot was made. This one and I understand its necessarily bigger, but it still feels more solid all the way around. Everything feels tighter, like specs and tolerances were tightened up, in QC.

I've included a couple pics looking thru the optic, though no justice done. It is bright and clear. I just now, double/triple checked. I can not tell ANY difference in light transmission, between the naked eye and looking thru the optic. No dingy look, some people complain about with powered optics. The image is crisp and clear, all the way out to the edges.

The laser-etched reticle is sharp. At first, I looked thru it and was thinking, "Oh dang... tiny!". Few more minutes with it, and it suddenly seemed, just about right. They really did their homework on designing this reticle. It feels very intuitive.

Eye-relief isn't bad... right where they say, just over 3". You start moving back and you're going to deal with the parallax and limited sight picture. But, it feels natural to be in that position, on the firearm... so it suits me fine. My hunting scope is way worse.

The powered reticle isn't as bright as I expected. I expected eye-ball scorching, bright laser light at setting 1. Heck, couldn't even see 1, thru my camera. You can see it with the naked eye, no problem... but its not obtrusive and I could see using it that way. Don't know if I will, however.

Pulled the mount screws out, put some locktite on and mounted the whole thing, rearward as it would go. Mounts up very stable and at least feels like it could take a real beating. And I won't apologize here. I don't give a rat's rear-end that its not a Trijicon... maybe 5% of the people on this forum, would need something tougher than this.

Not sure about the caps. They're a pain in the rear-end to open/close. With the fine focus on the rear, when switching shooters, its inconvenient. I only put it on the front, because of the killflash and its not easy access to wipe down the glass. This will keep more dirt/dust off it.

Bonus! The killflash, fits my Vortex Strikefire perfectly! The only weird thing, is with the killflash, it makes the A2 sight look like distortion in the glass itself, until you realize what it is.

Major props to PA for making this optic happen. If it returns the results I hope for at the range tomorrow.

Hope you enjoy the feedback. I'll be sure to post impressions after range day, which will include plenty of shooting out to 550 yds... and hopefully come back with some pics.

4x Prism and Killflash


Everything included in the box (minus the battery - and killflash)


Very rugged build. Same finish on other PA optics, which hold up well to dings and scratches.


Would like to see retaining straps for turret caps.


Fine focus for the ACSS


Solid mount and actually installs and uninstalls rather easily.


Killflash installed


Battery is included, CR2032. I am impressed with the quality/simplicity of this battery compartment. It isn't one of those ones, you'll unscrew the cap some day and pieces of it, will fall out (other than the battery).


Nice machining and build for Made in China...


Mounted view 1


Mounted view 2


Mounted view 3


Final build w/ 4x Prism ACSS



Sight pictures.

Awesome Info and great pics!!!

Defiantly be sure to let us know what you think about it after you time at the range.


Here are a few pics of mine ........

I just got mine in the mail. Put some thread locker and got it all mounted up. I will take it out tomorrow to see how much I like it.

With the fixed front sight where does the retical fall in your view, absolute or 1/3 cowitness ?
Or do you not even see the front sight.

Koz

glad to hear you like it, i was planning on getting one for my AR once money allows.

Absolute and lower etc. is more for red-dot and 1x powered etc.

I had read most 3x plus magnified scopes the fixed front sights wash out ... And they were right.

Now don't me wrong, they are there and you can see em but they are a pure blur and really do not show up all when using reticle and locking onto a target ... It's just a faint blur at the bottom if you try and look for it ... A non issue.

I do wish I had a full flat rail AR but with magnified optics it is fine.

Got the scope out to the range yesterday.

(1st pic zoomed 4x)



Was a long process, as it was packed. A bit upset, as last weekend one of the kids told me it was the best day to go. Ended up getting, pretty much stuck on a lane. Luckily, I got the last one, with shade.

This also means, zeroing is a pain in the ass, if you don't have a decent spotting scope (which I don't). You have to call for a line break, every time, walk down there, check your groups. I'm not a MOA shooter. Don't have any desire to be. My only interest is putting rounds on target... and if I have to shoot at something 1", to save my life.. well, I hope I get lucky. I'm more concerned with larger targets/things.

After a while, tiring of waiting between breaks and zeroing as well as I could at 50... I switched over to the last of the reactive targets I had. When I pulled up the optic, the first thing I noticed was the 8" target fit perfectly in the ACSS horseshoe. Was using a front rest and decided to just unload the last 3 magazines into it, as I wanted to move up to the hill. The only thing I'm lining up here, is the horseshoe around the target. Not really aiming at the center circle. Then it was on to the longer stuff.

100 yds (POA inside horseshoe reticle)



The hill is stocked with an assortment of IPSC steel silhouettes. Found the 18" x 30" plate at 400, put the reticle there and *DING* first shot. Every magazine, at least 9/10 on target (I usually have a stupid trigger pull in there - which is why there's only 19 I think, on that 2nd target).

There wasn't any wind at this time, so it was literally center it on the instersect at 400 and you would get a hit. Same thing with shorter distances.

At the 550 yd range (the top ridge in the pics), As there isn't a 550 mark, it took a little bit of adjustment. But, following my shots, it was easy to adjust. The hill makes a very good backdrop. You see every miss.

As I was winding things down, the wind started to kick up a bit. I had also setup with 62gr and was now shooting 55gr (btw, I joined the Reloading Club today. RCBS single-stage ordered). So I started getting a little push on my rounds. I moved the POA to the furthest left edge of the 400 line and *DING*. Shot after shot.

The range finder appears accurate, as it said the 18" x 30" was at 400 (but I already knew that). I really like the ACSS design. Its just easy to use. Doesn't take a lot of brain power, to put a shot where you want it, with a little wind thrown in, for good measure. As for the illumination, as has often been said by those that have it... its not really needed, unless its getting dark. It showed up fine, on everything I was shooting at. The above targets, I was using it illuminated, not like it makes a big difference though.

When I first set up the optic, I used Locktite on the optic/mount screws. I did not use any on the rail mount. The Primary Arms (and Vortex,btw) can be sufficiently tightened, on one edge and be tight enough. There will be an initial settling in adjustment... but after I tightened them up, after about 100 rnds, it held rock solid. Any type of strong flat edge, can remove one of these and put them on, in a flash.

Once zero was set... at least for the rest of the rounds I put down range, zero never changed. I'd take it off and put it back on, but I don't have a need to and this is exactly the way I wanted this rifle setup.

I know some people take issue with the mid-magnification fixed optics. They don't think they stack up well for CQB and you know, inside of 50 yds... I would agree with you. This isn't the best optic for that. As someone else said, on this forum, the ACOG style optics are a "jack of all trades, master of none". Though, I kind of disagree with that. For the SW United States, which is a LOT of flat, wide-open land, even when you get into the elevations, in some states. Ranges are often far greater than 100 yds. 300 - 500 is not uncommon. Out in areas like our BLM shooting area, as far as you can see. This type of optic and sighting system, is perfect.



Build quality, is excellent. I think this one is built a little better than my Micro Dot. Not a knock on the Micro... its just seems like they moved their QC up a notch. I'm not ever going to intentionally inflict damage on my optic, to see how tough it is... but, I can easily believe the torture tests, I've seen.

Glass clarity is awesome, all the way out to the edges. Very good light transmission. With both of those, I could not see any difference between naked eye viewing and looking thru the optic, besides the obvious magnification.

My only beef with the optic are the PA flip covers. My rear one, was a lot of wiggle in it, so you really have to pay attention getting it on and the front one is a PIA to close. I do like the knurled portion on the rear cap, so you can still easily use the fine adjust.

I think if you're looking for something that fits the bill, of being able to put rounds on target accurately, out to (in my case) 550 yds and don't want to spend the money on a Trijicon, you can't go wrong with this optic.

When is the new micro dot prism coming out with the green laser ?
Thanks.  
I had the chance to look thru one of your 1x4 today Wow what clear glass   I like !!

Out at Kern River Valley Gun Association range. They've got a couple targets up on the hill, 750 yds. Strong headwind... gusts up to 20 - 25 easy. Once I got the compensation down for the wind, I'm tagging this thing every time.

I love this optic!

I bought the PA 4x a few weeks back and took it to the range. I put about 100 rounds through it but my range only goes out to 200 yards so I really can't comment on the ranging on the reticle. I really only have a couple observations:

-The packaging is amazing. Small detail but first impressions and all.

-The scope caps seem very high quality (I only use the front one), and I like how the allen wrenches and anything needed to mount the scope is included.

-Zeroing was easy, but I wish the adjustments had discernible clicks.

-Wearing polarized lenses on a bright day I could barely tell the reticle was on, but with shades off it was very bright.

-Eye relief and FOV was excellent. I had no trouble doing quick snap shots or getting on target, at least compared to my buddies ACOG who I was shooting with

-I was hitting 9/10 shots on an 8 inch gong at 200 yards with questionable ammo (ATI 62gr) so it definitely held zero for the 100 or so rounds.

-It feels and looks like a quality optic. I wish I had the money to try to torture test it, but in my personal opinion the 4x is an awesome scope that fits the role of a budget ACOG.

I really want to get one of these to have as a backup for my 18" 6.8 SPC. I've got a 3-12x in a QD mount now and really wanted the ACOG 6.8 but just can't see spending the money on it. I know the ranging won't be on but I think it will be close. Recording data is key anyway.

It really is. We're a little blessed around here, our long ranges, up on hills... you can follow every shot. Even at that range, you see the splash of dirt. I don't have the ranges memorized yet, so I was comparing what the optic would say, compared to the chart.

Obviously there's no mark, for 728 yds, but you can aim a little higher on the target... the wind was coming in hard gusts, but mostly a headwind. Adjusted as if it was about 5mph crossing and I put the first shot just over the left shoulder. Firing my first batch of reloads and Lake City 55gr, I was very pleased with the performance.

While my accuracy and technique still need a lot of work, this optic makes you feel like you're a lot better than you might be. At least in my case.

I really love my PA fixed base micro. I've got it on my Mini and set at 50/200 yd zero. It's one of my favorite firearm setups, of all time. Not to denigrate it... but the 4x ACSS makes it seem like Romper Room. Such an impressive optic. It's a bar raiser, imo.

Now I want the new reflex! I see one in my near purchasing future.

EDIT: Some pics of the range.

I just got this optic for my new Colt LE6930 SOCOM through PA and they offer the American Defense AD-B3 Quick Discconect ACOG Mount for a reduced "upgrade" cost ($59), which I opted for and it is a great QD mount for the optic.

If you hold this optic next to an acog is there much of difference in clarity?

Can't say that I've compared them side-by-side. What I do know and always a concern for an optic I haven't held in my hand, prior to purchase... is clarity of the lens out to the edges. I've come across a lot of optics that have a nice clear center dot, then things get fuzzy as your eye takes in the whole picture. It makes shooting with both eyes open, difficult and I get eye fatigue very fast.

I spent 4+ hours at the range on Monday, dumping 430 rnds downrange. Granted, I was sharing time with two guns, my Mini and my AR... but the AR got the majority of my time, because of the optic and I was having so much fun going from 200 to 700 to 300, etc. I did not experience any eye fatigue, at all. The image is crisp and clear, from the ACSS reticle, all the way out to the edges of the glass.

There is definitely a newer class of scope/optic on the market. For so long, we either had crap, or $$$. Its actually American entrepreneurs that are fueling it to. They're the ones that own a lot of these companies that say, "Made in China". They have their own ideas, from their own, others and/or shared experience and its within their reach, cost-wise to go to these Chinese manufacturers, give them the orders and say, "Make them to these specs". If they can't/don't... there's plenty of competition, for their dollars.

Its kind of like back in the 70s/80s, people were complaining that the Japanese were buying up America. Then someone actually did the homework and found out, that 85% of those Japanese companies, were American majority-owned. Lot of that going on here, at least in regards to the face, rep and ideas of the companies

I compared my PA scope to my TA-31 ACOG and to my Leupold VX-R 1-4 Patrol.

I took them outside and looked at a house a couple of hundred yards away.

The TA-31 is clearer but not significantly more.  Just barely noticeable.

The  PA's clarity was comparable to the Leupold.

You will have no problem with clarity with the PA scope.  For the price you will be pleased with the clarity.

It is not the same as an ACOG but for 1/4th or 1/5th the price is a darn good substitute.  

When clarity is close enough I will take repeatability over it anyday....imo

When are they going to make one with tritium?

Thats to bad, i would have bought an ACOG with the ACSS reticle in a heartbeat.

when exactly might that be?

Are you referring to the patent on tritium itself?  Or do they have a patent on using tritium in optics?  Just curious since the Meprolight M21 has tritium in it.

Thanks for the clarification!  It would be interesting to see  what would be brought to the market if this wasn't the case.  

My understanding is that the patent in question expired in 2009:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4806007.PN.&OS=PN/4806007&RS=PN/4806007

They've got a bunch of newer patents, but they're basically on specific designs, not the concept of tritium lighting. My gut feeling is that import/export regs are a bigger obstacle than patents... messing with tritium is tricky from a regulatory perspective.

I am interested in this type of optic for a rifle to throw on the ATV and possibly use for hunting here in Idaho.  I can't swing the $1,000+ cost of an ACOG so I like this

I do have one question regarding range marks.  I see you have 400, 500, 600 marked, and the dot is 100 yards.  Am I correct in assuming the bottom of the horseshoe is 200 and the top of the range post is 300?

Excellent!      Any ballpark estimate on when that would be?

Any chance you can make it easily replaceable?        Unscrew a cap, put in a couple ampules, gtg for 10 years or so.

That's my idea, you can have it for free.  

I have one of these on my rifle, it's a nice optic, my local range doesn't go past 200 yards, so I haven't been able to check the hold-over accuracy, but I expect it to be right.

Anyhow... the middle dot is 2 MOA edge to edge. So at 200 yards it's a 2 inch radius.

If you are shooting 55gr m193 clone ammo, and it's dead center zeroed at 100 yards, there's a touch less than 2" of drop @ 200... I just held the dot on the 8" target and was a tiny bit low of center. You could probably use the bottom edge of the center dot and be 1/2" high vs 1.5" low.

The top of the post is 300.

I really wish you had done this with a common battery.

I do like that the reticule is etched on so that it is useable without batteries.

What is the battery life and is there an auto cutoff.

I'm looking for something to replace my red dots as I get older.