ARCHIVED
 justin_schuyler
Stamp Collector
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2009  FL, USA
 
 Posts: 1542 Feedback: 100% (4) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/22/2012 5:14:02 PM
Originally Posted By BauerC: Originally Posted By Spec-4: Originally Posted By frowertr: Originally Posted By BillofRights: That's how you shoot an AR. Nose to the CH. You never heard that before? Hmm. Don't shoot mine like that. Plenty of eye relief with my Aimpoint M3. Thats how you make absolutely sure you get the same cheek weld/sight picture every single time. No, Thats how you make absolutely sure you get a big whiff of nose burning stink gas If you don't like that smell then you haven't shot enough. Smells like butterscotch yo. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2012 5:58:35 PM
Originally Posted By RandyStacyE:
The BDC was designed around using a specific barrel length, a specific twist rate and a specific ammo. While the BDC 'might' be close enough for most people (using a different length barrel, different twist rate and different ammo) ... it is up to the owner to confirm their own POA (point of aime) vs POI (point of impact) with relation to the BDC reticle. Considering the ACOG was made for military contracts ... they were made to be used for what it was designed for to achieve ultimate performance. That's just my understanding of it whether it be right or wrong. Thanks for the explanation. I am fortunate enough that the lease we use to hunt/shoot on has a large field that goes out to approx 700 yards. I don't have targets out that far however. I would have to add them as we only go out to 400 yards. But it would sure be fun to try shooting that distance just to see what we can hit. We plan on going out tomorrow so I'll see how my dad likes it. I was playing with it again today and the relief didn't bother me as much. I guess I was comparing it to my M3 which I really shouldn't do as one is magnified and one is not. Adding a RMR to it down the road would kinda be the "best of both worlds" approach if he wanted something better for CQD. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2012 6:03:20 PM
Originally Posted By reelserious:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
That's how you shoot an AR. Nose to the CH. You never heard that before? Try that with an AR 10  or a .50 Beowulf. |
|
|
|
sgwlower
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jul 2003 RI, USA
Posts: 5862 Feedback: 100% (114) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/22/2012 6:28:08 PM
Originally Posted By Donner_und_Blitzen:
Originally Posted By reelserious:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
That's how you shoot an AR. Nose to the CH. You never heard that before? Try that with an AR 10 or a .50 Beowulf. Luckily the ta31 wasn't designed for the 50 Beowulf, it was designed for the 5.56, for the military, eye relief setup for nose to charging handle. Use the optic as it is designed, and you will have no issues. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2012 9:56:23 PM
Originally Posted By TNgan:
Get an ELCAN if you want good eye relief w/ good FOV. x2 love my elcan. much better than a trijicon. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/23/2012 10:48:15 AM
Originally Posted By frowertr:
Thanks for the replys guys. Looks like the TA11 would be nice. Looks to be a couple inches larger and about 4 ounces heaver although I don't really think that matters. I'll play around with the TA31 again tomorrow before we decide to ship it back just incase he and I "get used" to it. I just like being able to throw a weapon up to my shoulder and have an instant picture and not worry about getting my eye "just right" in order to see through the viewfinder. You better stick with a red dot or holographic sight then. All magnified optics (except very few 2X ones) have a fixed eye relief. You have to be consistent where you put your head no matter if it is NTCH or not. If you want your head further back than NTCH with a 4X ACOG you have to mount it farther back on your upper with no BUIS. Dustin |
|
|
|
InfiniteGrim
Member
Team Member
Joined: Apr 2009 PA, USA
Posts: 17746 Feedback: 100% (34) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/23/2012 10:54:12 AM
[Last Edit: 8/23/2012 10:54:55 AM by InfiniteGrim]
First off OP are you sure its real? Never mind I see you ordered from optics planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/23/2012 10:42:28 PM
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
That's how you shoot an AR. Nose to the CH. You never heard that before? That is how the ARMY teaches the masses how to shoot. Of course the ARMY shooters also believe(d) that the M16/AR15 could only hit man sized targets out to 300 yards. 
U.S.Marines are taught shooting fundementals and marksmanship; not NTCH. And the Marines have known the M16/AR15 is able to hit man sized targets out to 500+ yards for a LONG time. 
|
|
|
|
bjkb1f
Word to your mother
Team Member
Joined: Mar 2010 MO, USA
Posts: 4079 Feedback: 100% (11) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/23/2012 11:16:32 PM
I just got the TA11. I think it lists eye relief at 2.4 inches or something like that, but I feel like it's more than that. I shoot NTCH anyway. I feel like with both eyes open it will act as an RDS as well as a mid range optic. I love this thing so far. Kind of big, but the weight doesn't bother me.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2012 12:13:30 AM
Originally Posted By bjkb1f: I just got the TA11. I feel like with both eyes open it will act as an RDS as well as a mid range optic. YES! That is the Bindon aiming concept; both eyes open, and the dominant eye will pick up on the target. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2012 6:50:28 AM
I usually shoot about 1 finger width back from NTCH, and I have never had any noticeable issues using the TA01 or TA31RCO-M4. I mount the scope with two open slots ahead of and behind the base, which gives enough room to keep a BUIS on the rail. The part of the reticle with the BDC is way smaller than the entirety of the field of view, so even if you can't see the entire sharp edge of the FOV, you can still use the scope to ID and shoot.
Near where I live there is a range that goes out to 700 yards, with steel targets out to 600 yards. There isn't a lot of 5.56 ammo available in the area, so I have to use mostly .223. At 500 yards using a 16-inch barrel, my experience is that the spread of the .223 rounds in gusty crosswinds is probably way bigger than the deviation from the BDC that you would get with most common loads and barrel lengths (if you go by the BDC charts in the FAQ threads). The trajectories are obviously way closer to the BDC at long range using M193 ammo, but even with the .223 ammo it gets close enough to probably provide good suppression at 700 yards. (At that distance I am just aiming at spots in the dirt and seeing how close I can get the puffs of dust. I don't know how much energy the round has that far out.) |
|
|
|
sgwlower
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jul 2003 RI, USA
Posts: 5868 Feedback: 100% (114) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/24/2012 7:42:54 AM
Originally Posted By Sniper3142:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
That's how you shoot an AR. Nose to the CH. You never heard that before? That is how the ARMY teaches the masses how to shoot. Of course the ARMY shooters also believe(d) that the M16/AR15 could only hit man sized targets out to 300 yards.
U.S.Marines are taught shooting fundementals and marksmanship; not NTCH. And the Marines have known the M16/AR15 is able to hit man sized targets out to 500+ yards for a LONG time.
And they still shoot noste to Charging Handle  |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2012 5:50:04 PM
it you are not worried about running a BUIS, you could get a mount that lets you run the scope farther back,
LaRue mount i have one with my TA01NSN as i am not a NTCH type shooter. with the scope that far back, i actually can run the BUIS in front of the scope on the upper. it looks weird and is a bit unorthodox but shoots fine if you take the scope off and use the irons. or add an RMR to the top of the scope for back up shooting if the scope breaks. mo money but a nice addition. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2012 6:29:36 PM
Another TA-11 (F-G model) here. Went TA11 for the eye-relief. The ballistics reticle is pretty close for me shooting with 16 or 18" barrels out to 350yds with m193 and PMC bronze 223.
The ACOG can be used as a CQC system when shooting with both eyes open (BAC). Not as accurate at distance. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/24/2012 11:36:46 PM
[Last Edit: 8/24/2012 11:39:40 PM by cop1211]
Originally Posted By Sniper3142:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
That's how you shoot an AR. Nose to the CH. You never heard that before? That is how the ARMY teaches the masses how to shoot. Of course the ARMY shooters also believe(d) that the M16/AR15 could only hit man sized targets out to 300 yards.
U.S.Marines are taught shooting fundementals and marksmanship; not NTCH. And the Marines have known the M16/AR15 is able to hit man sized targets out to 500+ yards for a LONG time.
When I went through Parris Island in 1989 if you didn't have your ntch the DI would push it up your nose. Check out the extended GDI mount that would fix the eye relief problem. I have a TA31 in a standard GDI mount, shoot ntch with no issues. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/27/2012 1:38:12 PM
Originally Posted By Sniper3142:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
That's how you shoot an AR. Nose to the CH. You never heard that before? That is how the ARMY teaches the masses how to shoot. Of course the ARMY shooters also believe(d) that the M16/AR15 could only hit man sized targets out to 300 yards.
U.S.Marines are taught shooting fundementals and marksmanship; not NTCH. And the Marines have known the M16/AR15 is able to hit man sized targets out to 500+ yards for a LONG time.
You got it part right. The Army actually taught me that the max effective range against point targets (PC for people) was 500m and area targets was 800m back in '91. Our much more realistic pop up target quals only went out to 300 because we didn't have to rely on another branch to supply our equipment for us. We had modern commo that let us call in the massive amounts of fire support we had for targets far away. The Army figured out back in the 1950s that shooting round bullseye targets on the KD range was as useless for Infantry/Combat training as the BS "One shot, One Kill" mantra that died a lot slower death. OP - the short eye relief of the 4x32 ACOG is designed to mimic the eye relief (NTCH) that was/is taught during Basic Rifle Marksmanship with iron sights. Rob |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2012 2:22:16 AM
Originally Posted By mr_h:
it you are not worried about running a BUIS, you could get a mount that lets you run the scope farther back, LaRue mount i have one with my TA01NSN as i am not a NTCH type shooter. with the scope that far back, i actually can run the BUIS in front of the scope on the upper. it looks weird and is a bit unorthodox but shoots fine if you take the scope off and use the irons. or add an RMR to the top of the scope for back up shooting if the scope breaks. mo money but a nice addition. I have the RCO mount for my TA31 and it relieves the eye relief issues. |
|
|
ARCHIVED
