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txhunterak
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Posted: 12/25/2011 4:09:08 PM EST
I am getting an optic for my AR. I have been thinking about getting a 1-4x scope for quite some time now and am about ready to make the leap. Any opinions on the trijicon accupoint tr24-3, nightforce nxs, or schmidt and bender zenith 1-4x scopes would be a ton of help. Is there a ton of difference, or a superior product for the money between these three or are they all comparable to each other? Also I was thinking about the 3x trijicon ACOG. If you have used any of them or have an educated opinion on these please let me know. I like the idea of being able to change scope power which is why I was leaning towards a 1-4x but am open to any suggestions. Thanks and merry Christmas.
cop1211
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Posted: 12/25/2011 7:20:35 PM EST
I have all three. They are all nice. The "best" one I would say is the S&B for eye relief, eye box, optical glass clarity, the illuminated dot is wonderful in full sun or complete darkness.

That being said I wouldnt pay full price for a new one compared to the TR24, or NF. The difference in price isnt worth it being slightly better. I got a very nice used one, if you can find a nice used one for 1,500-1,600 then its not to bad of a price.

Also depends on what you are going to use it for. All of my purchases are based on me using them for duty/SWAT.

I think the best buy for me is the NF 1-4 with FC2 reticule, based on that I work nights, and a majority of SWAT missions are conducted in low/no light. The illumination and reticule is very nice in low/no light.

I love the TR24 in day light, as well as the eye box. There is no issue with the TR24 as it has the Tritium for night use, although not as good as the NF or S&B, and also there is ambient light from street lights that the fiber optics can pick up in a city enviornment.

Google the snot out of each and read,read,and read. Then if you can use/handle all three that could help your decision on which optic best suites your needs/budget. Cant go wrong which ever one you pick, they are obviously my 3 favorites, I'm also buying a 2nd NF with the FC2 reticule.
redhead522
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Posted: 12/25/2011 8:44:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/25/2011 9:12:08 PM EST by redhead522]
Hey I've been contemplating the exact same thing recently. Another one to consider is the Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24 BRT-i. It's price is very similar to the S&B, maybe even slightly cheaper (Swarovski you can find for $2300 online vs about $2500+ for the S&B), and you have a 6x zoom. It has an illuminated reticle, bullet drop compensator (the Swarovski BDC is just in mil increments. It's not made for any one specific ammo, you can just shoot your ammo to the mils and get an idea of ranging). The Swarovski's field of view at 1x is much more generous than the S&B, Nighforce, or Trijicon. The Swarovski is 23.8º, compared to just 18.2º for the Schmidt and Bender, 18.9º for the Nightforce, & 18.5º for the Trijicon.

The one downside to the Swarovski is it doesn't have an adjustable objective to cancel out parallax. It has a dioptric adjustment for focus, but the parallax is preset.

Here's the scope on Swarovski's website
Swarovski website

Here's a review on Youtube
Youtube review
bp7178
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Posted: 12/25/2011 9:17:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By cop1211:
I have all three. They are all nice. The "best" one I would say is the S&B for eye relief, eye box, optical glass clarity, the illuminated dot is wonderful in full sun or complete darkness.

That being said I wouldnt pay full price for a new one compared to the TR24, or NF. The difference in price isnt worth it being slightly better. I got a very nice used one, if you can find a nice used one for 1,500-1,600 then its not to bad of a price.

Also depends on what you are going to use it for. All of my purchases are based on me using them for duty/SWAT.

I think the best buy for me is the NF 1-4 with FC2 reticule, based on that I work nights, and a majority of SWAT missions are conducted in low/no light. The illumination and reticule is very nice in low/no light.

I love the TR24 in day light, as well as the eye box. There is no issue with the TR24 as it has the Tritium for night use, although not as good as the NF or S&B, and also there is ambient light from street lights that the fiber optics can pick up in a city enviornment.

Google the snot out of each and read,read,and read. Then if you can use/handle all three that could help your decision on which optic best suites your needs/budget. Cant go wrong which ever one you pick, they are obviously my 3 favorites, I'm also buying a 2nd NF with the FC2 reticule.


On the TR24 and street lights....

I find the passive nature of the fiber optics is less than optimal in a mixed lighting enviroment. If you're shooting from a dark/covered posisiton to one of light, there is nothing for the fiber optics to gather. IMO, the fiber does a great job in daylight, not so much in enviroments of intermediate lighting. If you're standing under a street light, I can see it working, but why are you standing under a street light shooting at night?

On that list, i've owned a TR24-G and a S&B Short Dot LE with a P3 reticle. If I were to buy another TR24, it would be a TR24-R. Don't buy the "you can see more shades of green" hype. I've been looking ar red reticles for as long as I've been shooting. I find it easier to look for red, than green.

The S&B is better, but you have to understand that incremental improvements cost more and more the higher you go up the food chain. IMO, the S&B is w/o equal, but you pay for it. People want to say its not $1k better than a Nightforce, but the S&B has a specific set of features that you can't get in other platforms. There are some scopes which offer what they call daylight visible illumination, but it works differently than S&B's flashdot. The brilliance of the flashdot is that it is an Aimpoint built into a rifle scope, not a brightly illuminated reticle. At its nuclear bright max setting of 11, the battery life is rated at a minimum of 100 hours. Some of the other scopes on the highest setting is MUCH less.

On a side note, the tracking on the S&B is flat out amazing. One click is exactly what it says it is. You can spin the turrets all day, and as long as you return it, the zero does not change.

If you are mil/LE, S&B does have a proffessional pricing program....

caz41
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Posted: 12/26/2011 9:59:46 AM EST
Swarovski also offers LEO pricing
bosundave
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Posted: 12/26/2011 11:19:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2011 11:21:43 AM EST by bosundave]
What about the ACOG TA31H 4X with a piggy backed Docter or Burris Fastfire. Lighter than anything and a great reticle.
Price is a deciding factor for me and I think I am going with the 375 dollar GRSC CRS 1x4.
I wanted their Japanese made 1x6 but too heavy and too much $$. But competitive at 1035usd. For me the best reticle on either CRS scope.
We do little night work in my Tactical Carbine courses which which I am primarily getting the optic for. In carbine 2 they shoot out to 300 ysd and more I believe as well as 3 yd 'flash sighting" almost point blank to 500yds is what my scope has to do on an 18 inch target. And easy to use for range and windage. Very cool reticle like I said.
Sounds like the OP has plenty $$. I am just giving VERY reasonable alternative.
bp7178
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Posted: 12/26/2011 11:43:35 AM EST
I think the new battery powered ACOGs with the forward mounted RMR is a better choice, when it hits the market.

The offset (45 degree) RMR mounts are intresting, but I can see how using it support side would be difficult.

I don't see the GRSC reticle being as uber useful as some make it out to be. How often are you ranging and shooting heads?

I've always been a fan of mil-dots, and the ability to have the same reticle on multiple platforms, be it a carbine or a bolt gun.

Its worth noting that more magnification does not equal smaller groups...
cop1211
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Posted: 12/26/2011 5:21:49 PM EST
Also check out the Meopta ZD, very nice scope, reticule is nice and simple, Aimpoint bright in full sun, 3 simple bdc marks. Very good glass and clarity.
dillweed
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Posted: 12/26/2011 7:00:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2011 7:01:20 PM EST by dillweed]
Nevermind
Aronk76
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Posted: 12/27/2011 4:39:16 AM EST
Burris also has 2 1-4x tactical scopes. The FF TAC30 with a very nice reticle designed for 5.56 caliber, and they also have the XTR 1-4x which is about twice the price. I was on a limited budget and went with the TAC30 and it is nice on the gun. If you get either of these you can get the Burris P.E.P.R. mount in standard or QD. Both of these mount come with the Picatinny ring top and extra standard tops.
BeelzeBob
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Posted: 12/27/2011 5:06:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Aronk76:
Burris also has 2 1-4x tactical scopes. The FF TAC30 with a very nice reticle designed for 5.56 caliber, and they also have the XTR 1-4x which is about twice the price. I was on a limited budget and went with the TAC30 and it is nice on the gun. If you get either of these you can get the Burris P.E.P.R. mount in standard or QD. Both of these mount come with the Picatinny ring top and extra standard tops.



The TAC30 is $299, the XTR is $699. But you forgot the MTAC 1-4x

The Burris MTAC is $399. It has better glass than the TAC30, but the same ballistic CQ reticle. Another thing is that the TAC30's entire endbell has to be moved when you focus so endcaps are a no go,

where as the MTAC has a focus ring, so you can used flip caps.

I just ordered the MTAC from Midway for $399, + the QD PEPR mount for $99, minus a $50 promo code, shipped I paid $460
3-gun
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Posted: 12/27/2011 5:53:57 AM EST
I have the NightForce and Trijicon 1x4.
I like both, but give a slight edge to the Trijicon for cost and the green triangle for speed.
The turrets on the Nightforce are a little better for "counting clicks" and I think the fc-2 reticle is a little better for the 300-450 yd holdovers.
Both will make you smile.
" Don't cry, nobody shoots Glocks anymore."

"But the new Admin. is a Master in IDPA"
"MASTER in IDPA..."

"is like C Class in IPSC!"