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Posted: 11/5/2010 3:46:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Just curious if the blue tint is darker on one unit or the other? I'm already planning on checking this at the range tomorrow. Stay tuned!... Tomac |
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Posted: 11/5/2010 6:43:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: What is the policy on tritium replacement? Who has the best price on these and in stock (it looks like Cal's had the best price, but is out of stock at the moment...) I picked up a Trijicon TA44, and was somehwat disappointed to find the glowing reticle, well, doesn't really glow most the time- I was looking for something that works indoors and outdoors and it looks this might fit the bill a bit better. I may end up picking one up to give it a whirl. The reticle illumination is warranted for 10 years for the original purchaser. After this period, the sight may still be returned for tritium replacement if the tritium begins to dim. Once the warranty is expired, there is a charge for the replacement of the tritium. The warranty is about twice the length of most manufacturers' warranties. I will check and see which of our dealers to recommend for these sights. |
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Posted: 11/6/2010 8:37:09 AM EDT
[#3]
Just got back from the range, couldn't stay as long as I wanted due to rain.
Anywho, here are some reticle shots of the RMR, RX30 & M21 all taken at the same time and the same place about 9:45am w/the sun up at my 4 o'clock but covered by heavy overcast: RMR w/7moa dot: 
RX30 w/6.5moa dot: 
M21 w/4.5moa dot inside a 23moa circle: 
I also tested where POI coincides w/the bottom of the M21's outer circle and it appears to be at appx 15yrds w/my setup (ie: at 15yrds I use the bottom of the outer circle as my POA. Tomac ETA: Due to my camera the blue tint shown on each optic is actually lighter that it looks in the pics, I've lightened this shot to show *the reticle only* to be as light as I remember: 
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Posted: 11/11/2010 9:12:00 AM EDT
[#4]
Here are some bright daylight reticle shots from the RX30 & M21. Time was 9:20am at the exact same location as in the pics above.
In bright daylight the RX30's reticle appears to bloom to appx double it's normal 6.5moa size. Tomac M21: 
RX30: 
RX30 w/fiber optic collector covered to eliminate blooming: 
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Posted: 11/11/2010 9:18:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Excellent photos - optic photos are tough, most people can't get them very well.
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Posted: 11/11/2010 10:39:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Excellent photos - optic photos are tough, most people can't get them very well. Thx. There's a good deal more detail and less blurring of the reticles in my original photos but shrinking them down to something small enough to post detracts from that. However, you can still plainly see the M21's dot & broken circle reticle despite this effect and the bright daylight. Tomac |
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Posted: 11/11/2010 11:10:35 AM EDT
[#7]
I notice that orange shadow on the RX30 ––-
M21 has no such thing... really great photos Tomac! thanks |
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Posted: 11/11/2010 11:35:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
I notice that orange shadow on the RX30 ––- M21 has no such thing... really great photos Tomac! thanks You're welcome! In the interests of honesty I'm not certain what caused the orange shadow on the RX30 pics (could be reflected sunlight from the silver casing of my Olympus 1030SW as I had it very close to the rear of the lens while in Macro mode). The RX30 has a 42mm objective vs the M21's 30mm objective and if the orange shadows were caused by sunlight reflecting off my camera perhaps the smaller tube of the M21 prevented the reflected light from reaching the lens?... 
Tomac |
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Posted: 11/11/2010 11:49:58 AM EDT
[#9]
The orange light that shows up in the photos has something to do with the photography. A better photographer than I am may be able to explain it. When I take photos of certain optics, I sometimes get the same thing, different colours with different optics, but it shows up in the photo depending on the angle of the camera in relation to the optic, while it can't be seen with the eyes. I would guess that the case is the same here - it can't be seen when using the Trijicon optic, but shows up in the photos.
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Posted: 11/14/2010 5:16:48 AM EDT
[#10]
is the large triangle reticule available in the US?
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Posted: 11/24/2010 6:16:45 AM EDT
[#12]
For all of you who are planning to purchase an M21, we are offering a Black Friday Sale on all Mako Group products. From today through Monday, 28 November, you will receive a 30% discount on all products using coupon code BLK-FRI.
This code drops the cost of the M21 to $395.28 plus shipping! |
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Posted: 11/24/2010 9:51:44 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
For all of you who are planning to purchase an M21, we are offering a Black Friday Sale on all Mako Group products. From today through Monday, 28 November, you will receive a 30% discount on all products using coupon code BLK-FRI. This code drops the cost of the M21 to $395.28 plus shipping! Shucks and other comments!  I would've waited and ordered from you if I'd known!...
Tomac |
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Posted: 11/24/2010 2:00:36 PM EDT
[#14]
A few weeks ago I must have seen hundreds of these optics. |
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Posted: 11/24/2010 2:19:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Trijicon RX30 pros: Huge FOV through the 42mm objective makes for very fast shots & more forgiving cheekweld, slightly smaller dot (6.5moa, the RX34 has a 4.5mao dot) than the RMR allows for slightly greater precision. Trijicon RX30 cons: Like the RMR, the dot really blazes/blooms in bright daylight, 6.5moa dot isn't much of an improvement over the RMR's 7moa dot w/regards to precision shooting. Would you say that the RX34's 4.5 moa dot is a noticeable improvement or have you not had an opportunity to compare the dots? Thanks. |
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Posted: 11/24/2010 7:35:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: For all of you who are planning to purchase an M21, we are offering a Black Friday Sale on all Mako Group products. From today through Monday, 28 November, you will receive a 30% discount on all products using coupon code BLK-FRI. This code drops the cost of the M21 to $395.28 plus shipping! Shucks and other comments! I would've waited and ordered from you if I'd known!...Tomac I only heard about it last night! |
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Posted: 11/24/2010 7:42:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Trijicon RX30 pros: Huge FOV through the 42mm objective makes for very fast shots & more forgiving cheekweld, slightly smaller dot (6.5moa, the RX34 has a 4.5mao dot) than the RMR allows for slightly greater precision. Trijicon RX30 cons: Like the RMR, the dot really blazes/blooms in bright daylight, 6.5moa dot isn't much of an improvement over the RMR's 7moa dot w/regards to precision shooting. Would you say that the RX34's 4.5 moa dot is a noticeable improvement or have you not had an opportunity to compare the dots? Thanks. Haven't had the opportunity to personally try an RX34 but if it blooms as much as the RX30 (and no reason to think it won't) then the only practical difference will be shooting at longer ranges under ideal (ie: non-blooming reticle) lighting conditions. I've used the RX30 successfully at 200m but 300m is a stretch. I would imagine the RX34 would be good for another 100m. The center dot of the M21's bullseye reticle is 4.5moa (like the RX34) but it doesn't bloom at all, even when I pump bright light from an LED flashlight directly into the fiber optic collector. HTH... Tomac |
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Posted: 11/26/2010 5:00:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Good info, thanks Tomac.
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Posted: 12/4/2010 4:13:19 PM EDT
[#19]
This looks like a great site, I think I have found the replacment for my eotech! Any info on tritium replacemnet cost?
Thanks Tomac! Dan |
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Posted: 12/14/2010 5:54:18 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm waiting on a reply on the tritium replacement, will let you know very soon.
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Posted: 2/1/2011 8:30:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Any answer yet on the replacement costs?
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:38:40 PM EDT
[#22]
I had a good long talk with the guys from Meprolight (and say some really cool stuff, like their uncooled thermal sniper scope, among other things). There are some cool new products in the works, too.
I don't have an answer on the tritium replacement cost. Meprolight basically does not replace tritium (outside of warranty) simply because they do not get requests for it, for the following reasons: The tritium illumination lasts well past the warranty period. For individual users, Meprolight has found that the life of an optic is no more than 5 years, after which they are looking for something new and different, and unwilling to put money into an optic that they are bored with. Meprolight is constantly upgrading the sights as new technology becomes available. This means that an M21 from five years ago is not the same optic as one made today. Unlike other optic companies, they do not manufacture a myriad of sight models, they just incorporate improvements into the existing model. As a result, users like government agencies usually would simply replace the sight after 15 or 20 years if the tritium started to dim. A sight sent in under warranty may be replaced with a new sight or may have more than just the tritium replaced for the same reason - to keep it up to date. I will talk more with Meprolight about this and see what they say. I'm sure that there are some who even years down the road would still prefer their old M21 to the latest optical fad.
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Posted: 2/2/2011 2:45:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.
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Posted: 2/4/2011 12:34:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Wow. Just now finding this thread. Nice optic. Had a Rexlex many years ago and was thinking of getting a new one.
Love the new reticle options. |
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Posted: 2/16/2011 2:58:21 PM EDT
[#25]
I am disappointed to hear Meprolight's position on replacement of the tritium lamp.
I am however very impressed with the M21. I recently picked up a used (5+ years old) M21 off the equipment exchange, as well as purchased a NIB Trijicon RX09. My experience with other Trijicon products biased me towards really wanting to like the U.S. made optic. However, the M21blew the Trijicon out of the water. The M21 doesn't flare, is brighter in all lighting circumstances I could throw at it, the tritium lamp seems to be about twice as bright, and is much more difficult to wash out. There were only two points where I liked the Trijicon better. The RX09 chevron reticule is my preference over the solid triangle available in the M21, and the M21 base cuts into the very bottom of my iron sight co-witness just enough to be anoying, but not enough to cause a problem. After shooting both, the M21 is on my rifle, the Trijicon is going to EE or Ebay. Neither of these optics will replace a battery driven sight, they all at some point can be washed out, but for my criteria the M21 with fixed BUIS does exactly what I want it to. |
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Posted: 2/18/2011 12:06:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Trijicon RX30 pros: Huge FOV through the 42mm objective makes for very fast shots & more forgiving cheekweld, slightly smaller dot (6.5moa, the RX34 has a 4.5mao dot) than the RMR allows for slightly greater precision. Trijicon RX30 cons: Like the RMR, the dot really blazes/blooms in bright daylight, 6.5moa dot isn't much of an improvement over the RMR's 7moa dot w/regards to precision shooting. Would you say that the RX34's 4.5 moa dot is a noticeable improvement or have you not had an opportunity to compare the dots? Thanks. Haven't had the opportunity to personally try an RX34 but if it blooms as much as the RX30 (and no reason to think it won't) then the only practical difference will be shooting at longer ranges under ideal (ie: non-blooming reticle) lighting conditions. I've used the RX30 successfully at 200m but 300m is a stretch. I would imagine the RX34 would be good for another 100m. The center dot of the M21's bullseye reticle is 4.5moa (like the RX34) but it doesn't bloom at all, even when I pump bright light from an LED flashlight directly into the fiber optic collector. HTH... Tomac Electrical tape is your friend..... |
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Posted: 3/29/2011 12:01:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Just ordered the M21 w/ bullseye reticle to replace my eotech. Love the Eo style reticle, but thinking SHTF when you may not be able to get CR123 batteries... Just my mad italian thinking
PS: Mako, let me know when you guys start importing TAVORs
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Posted: 3/29/2011 12:06:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Just ordered the M21 w/ bullseye reticle to replace my eotech. Love the Eo style reticle, but thinking SHTF when you may not be able to get CR123 batteries... Just my mad italian thinking
PS: Mako, let me know when you guys start importing TAVORs If you get a chance after using it, post a review. I'm also interested in the same model with the bullseye reticle. Thanks |
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Posted: 3/29/2011 5:05:27 AM EDT
[#29]
Will Do
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Posted: 3/29/2011 6:16:49 AM EDT
[#30]
I am really interested in the OPEN X concept but I wonder how visible it is. They say the bullseye reticule is the least washout prone...
but then again I have backup irons set up and available at all times (front and rear are both fixed) so a transition with washout might not be so much a problem because I can instantly transition. Just curious to try it. Might buy it just for kicks. |
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Posted: 3/29/2011 7:59:45 AM EDT
[#31]
The open X should have no issue with visibility. The dot reticles are used successfully in desert environments, and they are smaller. The M21 has been designed carefully to prevent washout.
I have tested the M21 in a lot of environments, and have found that the only time I could not find the reticle was if I was aiming directly into a light. In that case, even powered reticles can wash out. I have tried them in the desert and in the snow, which in my experience is the most challenging environment for washout. I have tried them from a dark room out into sunlit snow. In this case the reticle is faint, but easily visible. Anytime I need to pick up the reticle in a flash and snap a shot, the target will be in the same lighting that I am. If I am shooting from a window into bright sunlight, the range will be longer, and I will be taking enough time to aim that I don't need a super bright reticle - as long as I can see it, I am good. With a tactical light on a matte white or off white wall in total darkness, I can see the reticle. On a gloss white wall at about 2 feet with a tactical light, I loose the reticle in the glare on the wall. This is still not an issue to me, because I won't be shooting gloss white walls. At any range at which a light would be used, I don't need to find my reticle and place it on the target - I point at the target and my reticle is on the target. I can't see a scenario in which I would have a target that was dressed in gloss white. I have several sights with the different reticle options that I will be sending out to independent reviewers, so when we get those reviews, I will post them. I am trying to get them to people who are well-known and respected, but who will do an honest review, not the typical, "These guys ran a big ad in our magazine so their stuff is the best thing ever, honest!" type reviews that don't do anyone any good.
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Posted: 4/1/2011 6:19:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Ok, got the Meprolight M21 in and mounted. Preliminary thoughts, the quick connect mount is 1/3 cowitness to irons sights, I'm running Magpul Mbus front and rear. The mount has adjustable tension. I actually snugged up the nuts about 1/4 turn once mounted just to make sure it was cinched up, but that's just my preference. This sight is definitely heavy duty, it has 4 torx head screws holding it to the mount plus a heavy aluminum body. The reticle is clean and I did not see any "blooming" of the center dot when in direct sunlight. This may be because the fiber optic collector is made of a translucent type material instead of clear so it's getting a diffused light. This collector is in the front and wraps around the sides and top of the sight. When transitioning from a dimly lit room into a brightly lit room, the reticle was faint against a light background (light tan colored wall) but did not wash out, as soon as I crossed the threshhold of the doorway and into the light, it immediately lit up. This unit has the Bullseye reticle and for me easy to shoulder the weapon and get on target. I'll be heading to the range in the next few days, so i'll let you know how it works out. I'll also try to post some pics. My apologies if my thoughts seem a little scattered, I worked all night and had to stay up long enough to play with my new toy
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Posted: 4/7/2011 2:18:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Finally made it to the range today. I definitely like this optic. In full sunlight, the reticle stayed nice and crisp. Zeroing was a breeze, basically lined it up with the irons sights and then fine tuned it. I only tested it at 25 yds (the range i go to is only 50 yds) but was able to tear out the center circle on a 25 meter zero target. I was able to get quick on target with the bullseye reticle. The only thing I noticed was if you take the sight off and reattach, it's close but not zeroed. This I believe is true with most optics though. I don't plan to take it off and on, so no big deal there. All in all I'm very pleased with this sight. I have some pics, I'll try to post later.
Hope this will help. 
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Posted: 4/7/2011 5:33:14 PM EDT
[#34]
A couple tricks for the return to zero - you can adjust the tension of the QR mount if you need to to make sure it is snug and even on your particular rail. Also, each time you mount it, make sure to push it forward against the front of the rail slots as you attach it.
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Posted: 4/8/2011 5:22:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Thank you. This is my first QR mount so I'm not aware of the tricks yet. Your advice worked like a charm.
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Posted: 4/12/2011 9:08:56 AM EDT
[#36]
Can't seem to find the dimensions of this anywhere...
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Posted: 4/12/2011 11:47:30 AM EDT
[#37]
You mean physical dimensions? This is what is in the user's manual.
Lens Diameter: 30mm length: 115mm (4.53") width: 46mm (1.81") Height: 57mm (2.24") weight: 230g (8oz) |
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Posted: 4/12/2011 12:09:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
You mean physical dimensions? This is what is in the user's manual. Lens Diameter: 30mm length: 115mm (4.53") width: 46mm (1.81") Height: 57mm (2.24") weight: 230g (8oz) Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks!
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Posted: 4/12/2011 12:14:55 PM EDT
[#39]
For easy reference, the size is about equivalent to an EOTech 556 - dimensions are very close.
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Posted: 4/12/2011 1:05:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You mean physical dimensions? This is what is in the user's manual. Lens Diameter: 30mm length: 115mm (4.53") width: 46mm (1.81") Height: 57mm (2.24") weight: 230g (8oz) Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks!
No problem |
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Posted: 4/16/2011 9:22:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Thanks to this thread I just received my Mepro M21. This is my first real red dot/optic. So far I like it, though I've just been playing with it here and there and it's not mounted yet (my carry handle is zeroed, so waiting to mount until I go to range). In a well-lit room or a completely dark room the reticule is very well lit. It does have some washout pointing at the window from inside the house, the house only being lit by outdoor light. It's still visible, just dim.
I really like the bullseye. It's not as big as the Eotech, but it's very sharp and much easier to pick up than a single dot. No bloom whatsoever. The reticule is very crisp, but I do have a bit of a "halo" thing going on outside of the reticule. Is this normal? It's not really visible normally, only in certain situations so I am just curious. It's like there's light leakage around the reticule. I can't wait to get this thing out and try it. I love the no-batteries thing. I was going to get an Aimpoint Micro, but this thread sold me on the M21. It's really screaming for a killflash, does anyone know where I can get one? Does Meprolight make one, or can I use one from a Trijicon? |
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Posted: 4/16/2011 6:29:02 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Thanks to this thread I just received my Mepro M21. This is my first real red dot/optic. So far I like it, though I've just been playing with it here and there and it's not mounted yet (my carry handle is zeroed, so waiting to mount until I go to range). In a well-lit room or a completely dark room the reticule is very well lit. It does have some washout pointing at the window from inside the house, the house only being lit by outdoor light. It's still visible, just dim. I really like the bullseye. It's not as big as the Eotech, but it's very sharp and much easier to pick up than a single dot. No bloom whatsoever. The reticule is very crisp, but I do have a bit of a "halo" thing going on outside of the reticule. Is this normal? It's not really visible normally, only in certain situations so I am just curious. It's like there's light leakage around the reticule. I can't wait to get this thing out and try it. I love the no-batteries thing. I was going to get an Aimpoint Micro, but this thread sold me on the M21. It's really screaming for a killflash, does anyone know where I can get one? Does Meprolight make one, or can I use one from a Trijicon? Yeah mine has a bit of a halo too, usually outside when facing the sun, but once i get on target down range it disappears. I've also been trying to find a Killflash with no luck so far. The trijicon has a smaller lens (24mm) than the mepro so it won't work 
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Posted: 4/17/2011 8:42:49 AM EDT
[#43]
I'm working on the Killflash.
As far as a halo, that is not something I have noticed, except that sometimes light reflected from a window or shooting glasses can be seen as a reflection on the outside edge of the lens. (Cameras pick this up, even when you can't see it with your eyes.) Look at some of the photos people have posted, is this what you are seeing? I can see a reflection like that occasionally when light conditions are right, like a window behind me, or the sun on my glasses, but only if my focus is on the lens, not through the lens at the target.
If the reticle itself has a halo, then it would be a defect. |
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Posted: 4/17/2011 9:46:20 AM EDT
[#44]
I just pulled it out of the box and played with it again. Definitely a defect. I stood by our bay window, but perpendicular to looking out it and pointed the optic at the wall. The wall is sort of tan-gray, so the reticule shows up extremely well. With the light from the window (miniblinds closed, overcast day but very bright), there's clearly a halo. It's distance away from the reticule is about half the width of the reticule, if that makes sense. It's not a perfect circle, it looks kind of like a crackly sort of ring. Looks like I'll have to exchange it.
 It happens.
I did find something interesting though. I was just playing around with it, and the closer it is to your eye, the smaller the reticule. The further out, the larger. So, if you want a big reticule, mount it out on your rail system if you have one.
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Posted: 4/24/2011 7:54:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: I did find something interesting though. I was just playing around with it, and the closer it is to your eye, the smaller the reticule. The further out, the larger. So, if you want a big reticule, mount it out on your rail system if you have one. Look at the reticle in relation to an object downrange. You will notice that while the reticle looks larger in relation to the aperture of the lens as you move it away from your face and smaller as you move it closer, the size really does not change much in relation to the downrange object.
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Posted: 5/6/2011 8:56:00 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
I'm working on the Killflash. As far as a halo, that is not something I have noticed, except that sometimes light reflected from a window or shooting glasses can be seen as a reflection on the outside edge of the lens. (Cameras pick this up, even when you can't see it with your eyes.) Look at some of the photos people have posted, is this what you are seeing? I can see a reflection like that occasionally when light conditions are right, like a window behind me, or the sun on my glasses, but only if my focus is on the lens, not through the lens at the target. If the reticle itself has a halo, then it would be a defect. That's what I'm seeing. Only under certain conditions like when I'm facing the sun and it's reflecting off my bald head into the optic
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Posted: 5/17/2011 12:07:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Just wondering how wide is the available triangle reticle? The first page of this thread shows two sizes are available but only one triangle option is listed for sale.
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Posted: 5/17/2011 8:25:00 PM EDT
[#48]
Was considering the Eotech X models for my next red dot sight (I love my Aimpoint Micro, but have astigmatism so the dot is a comma
), but now I'll have to consider one of these as well.
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Posted: 5/18/2011 3:57:07 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
I picked up a used one at Dallas gunshow last spring for one of my IDF clones. It's pretty nice. Have not had a chance to use it much yet. http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww261/CircRN/100_1937.jpg It has the triangle recticle. http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww261/CircRN/100_1941.jpg Nice gun. Intriguing sight. |
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Posted: 5/19/2011 9:55:34 AM EDT
[#50]
For those who have used the sight, was there a consensus opinion on the tint affecting target recognition/acquisition? Also for those who've used the triangle reticle, how do you range your targets?
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