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antonovich
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Posted: 4/1/2010 11:39:20 PM
I'm looking at these two affordable options and I was interested in some opinions. Let me know what you think. The sparc review seems pretty good. I can't find too much about the lucid, but I like some of the features.
By_the_Bayonet
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Posted: 4/2/2010 12:41:42 AM
I got my Lucid in the mail today. Haven't had a chance to test it yet, but I plan on doing that this Saturday.

This thing is remarkably solid. The finish looks great and the mount is tight. The reticles are crisp and the auto-brightness adjust is super cool.
The screw-in magnifier is cool too.

I'm very, very impressed (but then again I've never gotten to play with an ACOG, aimpoint, or Eotech before).
The present reeks of mediocrity and the atom bomb.
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Posted: 4/2/2010 2:13:48 AM
[Last Edit: 4/2/2010 2:15:06 AM by 87GN]
That "lucid" is 13 ounces? SPARC has to be way lighter than that.

ooh, the "S.E.A.L. operators" and "S.W.A.T. teams" had input on the design.
What is your budget, and what do you want to do with the rifle? These are the questions you must answer before purchasing anything.

"My spoon is too big."
Castillo
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Posted: 4/2/2010 11:14:32 AM
SPARC is $200. If you are very patient and look hard, you can find beat up Aimpoint M2s for around $250. Believe me, you buy a budget optic and you will always be second guessing yourself and wishing you had the best.
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safehaven
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Posted: 4/2/2010 12:28:58 PM
Originally Posted By Castillo:
Believe me, you buy a budget optic and you will always be second guessing yourself and wishing you had the best.


Hmm, I bought a Vortex StrikeFire and have never once wished I would have got an Aimpoint instead. I am 100% satisfied with my purchase and have not regretted it for a second. Nor, have I even given the smallest of thoughts about changing it out for something else.

But eh... maybe I am in the only one that feels this way.

Melvin_Johnson
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Posted: 4/2/2010 3:48:59 PM
I seem to recall that one of the larger metropolitan police departments has authorized the StrikeFire for its officers. I want to say it was Chicago PD.

People are naturally skeptical of offshore optics for good reason. That doesn't mean that Vortex isn't selling some decent stuff. With all things, time and testing will be the ultimate yardstick.

antonovich
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Posted: 4/2/2010 5:08:37 PM
well thanks for the input. I decided to go with the vortex. I look forward to testing it out and letting you guys know what I think.
Skyyr
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Posted: 4/2/2010 5:14:40 PM
Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
I seem to recall that one of the larger metropolitan police departments has authorized the StrikeFire for its officers. I want to say it was Chicago PD.

People are naturally skeptical of offshore optics for good reason. That doesn't mean that Vortex isn't selling some decent stuff. With all things, time and testing will be the ultimate yardstick.


A police department issuing an optic or firearm isn't a good indication of its durability or performance. S.W.A.T., maybe (and that's a BIG maybe). Both of the aforementioned only need their weapons and optics to work when on-call and rarely do they need them at a moment's notice. If something fails, they simply grab another off the rack. I'd say the average firearms enthusiast probably has more rounds downrange than the average police officer. Police departments buy whatever makes do from whoever offers the cheapest price. That doesn't really speak much of quality going into the decision-making process.

The military is an entirely different matter, as they rely on their equipment for months at a time and trust their lives to it and it's been proven that the Vortex products do not hold up under this sort of usage. That said, that's all I need to know to stay away from them.
jarvxd
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Posted: 4/2/2010 5:19:50 PM
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
The military is an entirely different matter, as they rely on their equipment for months at a time and trust their lives to it and it's been proven that the Vortex products do not hold up under this sort of usage. That said, that's all I need to know to stay away from them.


Do you have an example of this?
Skyyr
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Posted: 4/2/2010 5:26:29 PM
[Last Edit: 4/2/2010 5:30:42 PM by Skyyr]
Originally Posted By jarvxd:
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
The military is an entirely different matter, as they rely on their equipment for months at a time and trust their lives to it and it's been proven that the Vortex products do not hold up under this sort of usage. That said, that's all I need to know to stay away from them.


Do you have an example of this?


The obvious answer would be, "Well what does common sense say?" It's obviously a clone of the Aimpoint Micros and therefore should be avoided, as it was copied and reproduced overseas (compared to building a quality unit based on research from the ground up).

That aside, yes, I do have an example:

" I did have one AR user note that when fired, the dot dimmed. After it rode the .50, I ran a mag through it and it went off. " The battery only lasted half a week as well - not something I would want in a reliable RDS. The same goes for the Strikefire. 87GN on this forum did a great write-up on it.

Link

Some might counter and say "Bu- but that was only ONE guy who noticed it dimming out of everyone who used his optic!" So? It still happened. I guarantee you that issue would be non-existent with an Aimpoint. And this is just the first time it was used. How much worse might it get down the road? It's simple: Buy quality, get quality.
Melvin_Johnson
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Posted: 4/2/2010 10:05:00 PM
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
If something fails, they simply grab another off the rack. I'd say the average firearms enthusiast probably has more rounds downrange than the average police officer. Police departments buy whatever makes do from whoever offers the cheapest price. That doesn't really speak much of quality going into the decision-making process.

The military is an entirely different matter, as they rely on their equipment for months at a time and trust their lives to it and it's been proven that the Vortex products do not hold up under this sort of usage. That said, that's all I need to know to stay away from them.


Grab another one off the rack? Which department do you work for?
frabor68
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Posted: 4/2/2010 10:15:37 PM
Has this thread gone off-topic, or is it just me?
Skyyr
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Posted: 4/2/2010 10:20:29 PM
Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
If something fails, they simply grab another off the rack. I'd say the average firearms enthusiast probably has more rounds downrange than the average police officer. Police departments buy whatever makes do from whoever offers the cheapest price. That doesn't really speak much of quality going into the decision-making process.

The military is an entirely different matter, as they rely on their equipment for months at a time and trust their lives to it and it's been proven that the Vortex products do not hold up under this sort of usage. That said, that's all I need to know to stay away from them.


Grab another one off the rack? Which department do you work for?


I wasn't making a direct reference - I'm speaking in regards to practicality. Let's say, for sake of argument, that the PD in question does indeed purchase said Vortex optics. If one dies, they can simply send it off for repair (free of charge) and either make due with iron sights, or use another weapon that they might have on hand, or whatever other fix might be available. They aren't in combat 24/7, nor are they in the routine business of killing people (that's not to say that they don't, but that's not their primary objective). They don't have to rely on their equipment for prolonged periods of time and if their equipment does fail, they have more lateral versatility as to how and when it gets replaced/repaired/etc. They also aren't in 48-hour-long shootouts, nor are they required to put X amount of fire downrange. Their weapons simply serve to function long enough to defend themselves and call for backup.

The same can NOT be said of the military - they're stuck with what they have and they're on call 24/7, whether they have a working equipment or not, and they're expected to perform at 100%, regardless and, if they can't, they can and DO get killed. And this reliability is required while jumping out of helicopters, crawling through mud, absorbing shock waves from mortar fire, etc. This is a stark contrast to police work. Please understand I'm now downplaying police offers or saying they do not put their lives on the line because they do; it's just not the same.

Because of this, the requirements for what's good enough for Police Department use and military use are two completely different measures and they should not be treated as equal indicators of quality or reliability.
MadCowRacer
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Posted: 4/3/2010 4:51:16 AM
OH man, the argument of whether the PD or Military needs stuff to work first time every time is kinda weak. I'd counter that a soldier that handles and maintains their weapon has more of a feel for what is going on with their weapon and how it is performing than an officer that has his rifle riding around in the trunk of their car just in case for prolonged periods of time. I won't argue the buy quality get quality argument, but every manufacturer started somewhere and buying a beat up used sight is a risky as taking a ride on Pamela Anderson. Sure it might work, but you know there MIGHT be consequences.
tcs007
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Posted: 4/3/2010 6:02:02 AM
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
Originally Posted By jarvxd:
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
The military is an entirely different matter, as they rely on their equipment for months at a time and trust their lives to it and it's been proven that the Vortex products do not hold up under this sort of usage. That said, that's all I need to know to stay away from them.


Do you have an example of this?


The obvious answer would be, "Well what does common sense say?" It's obviously a clone of the Aimpoint Micros and therefore should be avoided, as it was copied and reproduced overseas (compared to building a quality unit based on research from the ground up).

That aside, yes, I do have an example:

" I did have one AR user note that when fired, the dot dimmed. After it rode the .50, I ran a mag through it and it went off. " The battery only lasted half a week as well - not something I would want in a reliable RDS. The same goes for the Strikefire. 87GN on this forum did a great write-up on it.

Link

Some might counter and say "Bu- but that was only ONE guy who noticed it dimming out of everyone who used his optic!" So? It still happened. I guarantee you that issue would be non-existent with an Aimpoint. And this is just the first time it was used. How much worse might it get down the road? It's simple: Buy quality, get quality.


This happened to me as well. What it was in my case is the battery cover wasn't tight. I tightened it up, and it's been 100% since.
Proud Member - "Ranstad's Militia" - The Fantastic Bastards!
jarvxd
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Posted: 4/3/2010 10:07:23 AM
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
Originally Posted By jarvxd:
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
The military is an entirely different matter, as they rely on their equipment for months at a time and trust their lives to it and it's been proven that the Vortex products do not hold up under this sort of usage. That said, that's all I need to know to stay away from them.


Do you have an example of this?


The obvious answer would be, "Well what does common sense say?" It's obviously a clone of the Aimpoint Micros and therefore should be avoided, as it was copied and reproduced overseas (compared to building a quality unit based on research from the ground up).

That aside, yes, I do have an example:

" I did have one AR user note that when fired, the dot dimmed. After it rode the .50, I ran a mag through it and it went off. " The battery only lasted half a week as well - not something I would want in a reliable RDS. The same goes for the Strikefire. 87GN on this forum did a great write-up on it.

Link

Some might counter and say "Bu- but that was only ONE guy who noticed it dimming out of everyone who used his optic!" So? It still happened. I guarantee you that issue would be non-existent with an Aimpoint. And this is just the first time it was used. How much worse might it get down the road? It's simple: Buy quality, get quality.


From PreachermanMATT's Review:
I did have one AR user note that when fired, the dot dimmed. After it rode the .50, I ran a mag through it and it went off. I replaced the battery (The same one had been in the optic since test day one [well over a month] and freezing the battery plays into battery life strongly.), and never had a hiccup the rest of the day. I will do some more big bore test on it, ( I thought I could get more in at the shoot-but didn't) and get that to y'all as time allows.


You kind of left that bold part out... ever left your cellphone out in the car when it's below freezing cold? Anybody ever seen a review of an Aimpoint (or maybe Aimpooint and Vortex) side by side go through the same torture tests with the same batteries

...ok, I'll stop hijacking the thread now.
Sorry guys.
Skyyr
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Posted: 4/3/2010 10:58:26 AM
Originally Posted By jarvxd:
From PreachermanMATT's Review:
I did have one AR user note that when fired, the dot dimmed. After it rode the .50, I ran a mag through it and it went off. I replaced the battery (The same one had been in the optic since test day one [well over a month] and freezing the battery plays into battery life strongly.), and never had a hiccup the rest of the day. I will do some more big bore test on it, ( I thought I could get more in at the shoot-but didn't) and get that to y'all as time allows.


You kind of left that bold part out... ever left your cellphone out in the car when it's below freezing cold? Anybody ever seen a review of an Aimpoint (or maybe Aimpooint and Vortex) side by side go through the same torture tests with the same batteries

...ok, I'll stop hijacking the thread now.
Sorry guys.


No, I didn't "leave it out." There was no reason to include it because freezing a battery doesn't ruin the battery - it simply amplifies the drain issue.

I GUARANTEE you that a frozen Aimpoint would still operate at near full capacity. Why? Because freezing a battery slows down the transfer of electrons within the battery. An Aimpoint's drain is MAGNITUDES lower than a Sparc (considering a T1 will last 5+ years in the ON position with 1 battery). Freezing it might halve the battery life for both optics, but so what? While your SPARC might only last 12 hours more, the Aimpoint will still last 2+ years or more. I'll stand by my original statement. Buy quality, get quality. Buy a clone, get a chicom ripped off version that's inferior.
Greyknight
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Posted: 4/3/2010 11:49:12 AM
Wow, Aimpoint fanboys screaming how everything else sucks and then leaving out pertinant details to the evidance they provide. Wierd, this isn't even an Eotech thread!
Blackbird97
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Posted: 4/3/2010 12:15:55 PM
I agree, that seems kind of hefty...although the mount is integrated...
JM1911
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Posted: 4/3/2010 12:25:38 PM
You can GUARANTEE me huh ? Sorry bub, I was with a friend when his failed after the first magazine . Did they fix it? sure ? Sure. But Guarantee !
This is not an issue with Aimoint very often , Less than any other. I personally think the Aimpoint is the best out there. But they are not infallible.
That was not the first AP I've seen go tits up. If the OP can swing an AP then he can get the best. But if he cant the Vortex will probably serve him well.
heavyduty
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Posted: 4/3/2010 1:22:08 PM
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
Originally Posted By jarvxd:
Originally Posted By Skyyr:
The military is an entirely different matter, as they rely on their equipment for months at a time and trust their lives to it and it's been proven that the Vortex products do not hold up under this sort of usage. That said, that's all I need to know to stay away from them.


Do you have an example of this?


The obvious answer would be, "Well what does common sense say?" It's obviously a clone of the Aimpoint Micros and therefore should be avoided, as it was copied and reproduced overseas (compared to building a quality unit based on research from the ground up).

That aside, yes, I do have an example:

" I did have one AR user note that when fired, the dot dimmed. After it rode the .50, I ran a mag through it and it went off. " The battery only lasted half a week as well - not something I would want in a reliable RDS. The same goes for the Strikefire. 87GN on this forum did a great write-up on it.

Link

Some might counter and say "Bu- but that was only ONE guy who noticed it dimming out of everyone who used his optic!" So? It still happened. I guarantee you that issue would be non-existent with an Aimpoint. And this is just the first time it was used. How much worse might it get down the road? It's simple: Buy quality, get quality.


Just because a lower priced sight looks like an Aimpoint don't assume it's a copy. Styling and external envelope is one thing, engineering is something completely different. I do agree you'll never be unhappy when you buy quality, but not all applications need first-line gear.

Skyyr
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Posted: 4/3/2010 10:31:26 PM
Originally Posted By JM1911:
You can GUARANTEE me huh ? Sorry bub, I was with a friend when his failed after the first magazine . Did they fix it? sure ? Sure. But Guarantee !
This is not an issue with Aimoint very often , Less than any other. I personally think the Aimpoint is the best out there. But they are not infallible.
That was not the first AP I've seen go tits up. If the OP can swing an AP then he can get the best. But if he cant the Vortex will probably serve him well.


You're bouncing all over the board here. You seem to be implying that his Aimpoint broke - if it broke, then battery life after freezing has NOTHING to do with this conversation, nor does flickering. Broken is broken and even Aimpoints break (though substantially less than any other comparable optic). We're talking about battery life and the optic's battery in question died the next day after being frozen. Sure, an Aimpoint's battery might lose X amount of life, but it will STILL last exponentially longer than a Vortex. That was the original statement and it still is.

Again, put the Vortex next to an Aimpoint and in 999 out of 1,000 tests, the Vortex will die first, GUARANTEED (yes, I said it).
JM1911
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Posted: 4/4/2010 12:28:24 AM
[Last Edit: 4/4/2010 12:29:26 AM by JM1911]
The problem with this thread, and many others like it. Are the OP did not mention Aimpoint/ Eotech/ Burris or anything else. He simply asked about Vortex and another brand.
Pretty much everyone knows that AP's are the top of the heap. As happens with most of these threads is everyone, has an opinion that doesnt even come close to what the OP asked about.
So for that matter an Aimpoint has nothing to do with the OP's post at all.

And I am unfortunately as guilty as eveyone else.
Skyyr
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Posted: 4/4/2010 12:30:45 AM
[Last Edit: 4/4/2010 12:33:19 AM by Skyyr]
Originally Posted By JM1911:
The problem with this thread, and many others like it. Are the OP did not mention Aimpoint/ Eotech/ Burris or anything else. He simply asked about Vortex and another brand.
Pretty much everyone knows that AP's are the top of the heap. As happens with most of these threads is everyone, has an opinion that doesnt even come close to what the OP asked about.
So for that matter an Aimpoint has nothing to do with the OP's post at all.

And I am unfortunately as guilty as eveyone else.


Please try reading the entire thread again - the people who brought up Aimpoints were the Vortex fanboys. Aimpoints weren't even being discussed until some pro-Vortex poster said something on the order of "well I'd like to see an Aimpoint undergo this test next to a Vortex."
jarvxd
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Posted: 4/4/2010 11:24:00 PM
Aimpoints were mentioned in the 2nd post and we all were told to buy one by the 4th post...
jarvxd
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Posted: 4/4/2010 11:28:21 PM
Originally Posted By JM1911:
The problem with this thread, and many others like it. Are the OP did not mention Aimpoint/ Eotech/ Burris or anything else. He simply asked about Vortex and another brand.
Pretty much everyone knows that AP's are the top of the heap. As happens with most of these threads is everyone, has an opinion that doesnt even come close to what the OP asked about.
So for that matter an Aimpoint has nothing to do with the OP's post at all.

And I am unfortunately as guilty as eveyone else.


well said.
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