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Basic
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Posted: 11/21/2005 8:31:52 AM EST
Ok we have seen the S.P.O.T. is the best aimpoint clone it seems what about the ACOG clones out there . keep in mind I am using this as a plinker and a truck 4 wheeling gun not a duty or heavy service use type
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Posted: 11/21/2005 9:48:06 AM EST
compact acog
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Posted: 11/21/2005 10:16:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
compact acog



How is that a clone?
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Posted: 11/21/2005 10:23:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
compact acog



+1

don't buy chinese crap.
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Posted: 11/21/2005 10:31:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2005 10:39:00 AM EST by fight4yourrights]
Trjicon compact ACOG


If you want a cheap scope, buy a scope. Why do anyone want a ACOG copy, except if they wanted to be a POSEUR?


BTW - who makes a the best SigArms P226 clone? I am using this as a plinker and a truck 4 wheeling gun, not a duty or heavy service use type.



To my knowledge, all the ACOG clones are airsoft only
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Posted: 11/21/2005 10:43:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By pyro6988:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
compact acog



How is that a clone?





similar to the full size acog at a cheaper price, best "clone" i would part my money for.
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Posted: 11/21/2005 11:00:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2005 11:02:28 AM EST by Eupfhoria]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the IOR 3x25 CQB a kind of 'ACOG clone'?

Its 3x fixed power, illuminated reticle... not sure what else it's got in common. I realize that it is battery powered, not tritium, and therefore more prone to failure than an ACOG, but it also costs less ($650, last time I saw). What is the least expensive ACOG model?

Just wondering because I've been thinking about getting one of these (IOR or ACOG)

added a link: IOR 3x25
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Posted: 11/21/2005 11:07:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Eupfhoria:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the IOR 3x25 CQB a kind of 'ACOG clone'?




No, totally different construction, adjustments, illumination system, look.........


Designed for a similiar mission, obviously.....
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Posted: 11/21/2005 11:19:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Eupfhoria:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the IOR 3x25 CQB a kind of 'ACOG clone'?

Its 3x fixed power, illuminated reticle... not sure what else it's got in common. I realize that it is battery powered, not tritium, and therefore more prone to failure than an ACOG, but it also costs less ($650, last time I saw). What is the least expensive ACOG model?

Just wondering because I've been thinking about getting one of these (IOR or ACOG)

added a link: IOR 3x25




i dont even see anything similar other than they are both optics?


like my first post to this thread, compact acog would be the best clone. accept no subsitute and for the $650 for a battery powered optic like the ior i would try and find a compact acog or even a tao1 which will be in that price range and have a far better optic.
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Posted: 11/21/2005 11:21:54 AM EST
Friends don't let friends buy clones.
If you want a scope, buy a scope.
Only reason for a "clone" is to "pose"
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Posted: 11/21/2005 1:00:15 PM EST
nice that I can get straight response ... I'm glad that I dont ask many questions around here .
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Posted: 11/21/2005 1:08:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sig40Fan:
nice that I can get straight response ... I'm glad that I dont ask many questions around here .



look onebay there is a ton of clones on there, some look pretty good for a clone though i have never bought one, soem have good reticles and are not plastic bodys.
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Posted: 11/21/2005 6:12:06 PM EST
I buy what I can afford. A simmons 30mm red dot. It's spot on with a ar handle mount.

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Friends don't let friends buy clones.
If you want a scope, buy a scope.
Only reason for a "clone" is to "pose"

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Posted: 11/23/2005 7:21:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Trjicon compact ACOG


If you want a cheap scope, buy a scope. Why do anyone want a ACOG copy, except if they wanted to be a POSEUR?


BTW - who makes a the best SigArms P226 clone? I am using this as a plinker and a truck 4 wheeling gun, not a duty or heavy service use type. Norinco.www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/P22X-NP-22.shtm





To my knowledge, all the ACOG clones are airsoft only

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Posted: 11/23/2005 7:44:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Trjicon compact ACOG


If you want a cheap scope, buy a scope. Why do anyone want a ACOG copy, except if they wanted to be a POSEUR?


BTW - who makes a the best SigArms P226 clone? I am using this as a plinker and a truck 4 wheeling gun, not a duty or heavy service use type. Norinco.www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/P22X-NP-22.shtm
www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/images/NP-22-450px.jpg






LOL! Does Norinco make a ACOG clone? BTW, F4YR, Norinco makes an 1911 .45 clone, a Remington 870 clone, an AK clone, an SKS clone, a...well, you get the idea. And guess what? They work. They are quite adept at the ancient art of reverse engineering.

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Posted: 11/23/2005 9:06:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By BillofRights:

Originally Posted By Kodiak-AK:
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Trjicon compact ACOG


If you want a cheap scope, buy a scope. Why do anyone want a ACOG copy, except if they wanted to be a POSEUR?


BTW - who makes a the best SigArms P226 clone? I am using this as a plinker and a truck 4 wheeling gun, not a duty or heavy service use type. Norinco.www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/P22X-NP-22.shtm
www.marstar.ca/gf-norinco/images/NP-22-450px.jpg






LOL! Does Norinco make a ACOG clone? BTW, F4YR, Norinco makes an 1911 .45 clone, a Remington 870 clone, an AK clone, an SKS clone, a...well, you get the idea. And guess what? They work. They are quite adept at the ancient art of reverse engineering.


If memery serves either they or NCstar did but they got the ever liveing shit sued out of them .
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Posted: 11/23/2005 9:11:00 PM EST
ncstar made a copy and are going through a lawsuit
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Posted: 11/23/2005 11:22:48 PM EST
Like other people said, either get a Compact ACOG or find a used Compact ACOG in good condition if you want quality ACOG clone.
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Posted: 11/24/2005 4:34:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/24/2005 4:37:21 AM EST by Claven2]

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
ncstar made a copy and are going through a lawsuit



Not entirely true. A factory in China (probably owned by Norinco which is not bound by copyright laws being in the PRC and all) makes the newer higher end ACOG clones. NcStar is being sued for contracting for a bunch of them, putting their logo one it, and selling it in the US.

If ACOG could sue Chinese producers, they would. As would aimpoint and KAC and all the other AR parts makers who are being undercut by the Chinese.

From what I've heard from a guy I know who has BEEN to the factory that makes the better Super Sniper clones, the ACOG clones and the Aimpoint clones, many of these products come into existence because the real makers contract all or part of the manufacture of the REAL items to the inexpensive labor markets in Asia. These makers then "steal" the production technology and run off a bunch of low cost versions to sell on the grey market (ie, e-bay and such places).

If I were a betting man, I would bet the farm that the new Chicom ACOG clone gets it's glass from the same factory in the PRC that makes Hakko and NcStar. The housing and hardware is probably made from real grey market ACOG parts. As I understand it the TA-01NSN's are exact duplicates minus the tritium. I suspect this is because Tritium in the scope would make it much more difficult to get into the US through the mail as well as increases cost significantly. Since most of their target audience won;t care, they've omitted it.

The one NSN ACOG copy I recently saw in-hand was indistinguishable from a real ACOG minus the logo. The pinions were even marked exactly identically. The glass might be slightly lower quality but I couldn't percieve the difference with my eye. In fact, if the makers put fake Trijicon markings on it, people would buy them here on the EE and never know they didn;t have the real thing. Seriously.

I've not tested the clone on a gun as I don;t own one, but I'm convinced it would perform like the real thing. Resale value will likely be shit though, there will be no warranty and no tritium. Oh, and also no cool logo.

As a last comment, the clone comes with (an exact copy of) the TA51 mount. If you want to do a carry handle mount you will have to get the attachment screw from Trijicon for $10. It'll spin right on the clone once you remove the "TA51".
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Posted: 11/24/2005 5:04:49 AM EST
i have handled the fake nsn's and thought they were the decent but nothing close to the real deal and price was a bit high for a clone.
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Posted: 11/24/2005 5:25:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/25/2005 8:45:26 AM EST by 96_Bravo]
I just picked up 2 of these for plinking optics for my father and I, they were just around 150 each I believe. They look like an exact dupe, minues the tritium of course. I'm planning on kicking the crap out of this thing over the next month and I'll let you guys know how it fares. Weight is about the same as the TA01s I've handled, and the glass is clear as well. The rubber coating isn't perfect, as there are some imperfections showing through (looks like a grain of sand under the coating) and is likely due to lower quality rubberizing processes or impure materials. The railmount is identical as well. Only real difference is that I've seen reddish seals around the adjustment caps, and this model uses black seals.

I'm sure it will work, but it's no ACOG by any stretch.

I can post pics if anyone is interested.
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Posted: 11/24/2005 7:52:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By 96_Bravo:


I can post pics if anyone is interested.




This ought to be good, lets see them!!!
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Posted: 11/24/2005 7:57:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/24/2005 7:58:14 AM EST by 96_Bravo]

Originally Posted By Timanator:

Originally Posted By 96_Bravo:


I can post pics if anyone is interested.




This ought to be good, lets see them!!!



That was unprovoked....I smell sarcasm from a mile away...or is that fish?
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Posted: 11/24/2005 8:14:14 AM EST
I know what you mean about the rubber - only I've seen that on REAL Acogs too!!! the seal is not biggie. Red vs. black - who cares? It's just synthetic rubber.

What I'd like ot see is someone like Photoman do an abuse test on one or for some enterprising individual to take a damaged ACOG and a clone and destructively disassemble both to see if they are, in fact, the same thing except sanitized of the logo.

With both in hand, and if you ignore the logo and tritium differences, they LOOK THE SAME, weight the same, and feel the same.

If they were different, Trijicon wouldn't be suing NCStar as you can't patent a shape or silouette.
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Posted: 11/24/2005 1:07:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
BTW - who makes a the best SigArms P226 clone? I am using this as a plinker and a truck 4 wheeling gun, not a duty or heavy service use type.



Golan 'course, it's teh only 226 clone.
What do you expect? I shoot a rusty Sig.

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Posted: 11/24/2005 1:12:03 PM EST
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Posted: 11/24/2005 2:07:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:



Unfortunately, its the sign of the times for AR15.com. Sad really.








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Posted: 11/24/2005 3:58:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By MisterPX:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
BTW - who makes a the best SigArms P226 clone? I am using this as a plinker and a truck 4 wheeling gun, not a duty or heavy service use type.



Golan 'course, it's teh only 226 clone.



Not so, Dlask made one for a while too, but doesn't anymore.
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Posted: 11/24/2005 7:31:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:



+1000... sad really.
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Posted: 11/24/2005 7:42:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/24/2005 7:44:13 PM EST by NYPatriot]

Originally Posted By Sig40Fan:
nice that I can get straight response ... I'm glad that I dont ask many questions around here .



You did get a "straight response" to your question... what's bothering you is that you didn't get the answer you wanted.

As with most things in life, you get what you pay for when it comes to optics. Now you can learn this lesson the easy way (from the advice of people who are more knowledgeable & experienced than yourself), or you can learn it the hard way (by spending your $$$ on a POS clone that will go tits up in short order)... the choice is yours to make.

There... your question has been answered (again).
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Posted: 11/24/2005 8:19:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Claven2:

Originally Posted By MisterPX:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
BTW - who makes a the best SigArms P226 clone? I am using this as a plinker and a truck 4 wheeling gun, not a duty or heavy service use type.



Golan 'course, it's teh only 226 clone.



Not so, Dlask made one for a while too, but doesn't anymore.

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Posted: 11/25/2005 6:07:20 AM EST
I don;t think the new ACOG clone would go "tits up in short order". It doesn't have tritium. It doesn;t have a Trijicon Logo and it won;t retain resale value. Otherwise, like any other $200 scope, it should perform OK though maybe not up to the same level as the real thing.

I doubt it will break from normal use though like people here are implying.

I wouldn;t trust my life to it, but there's not reason not to rely on one for range use IMHO.

Much like the Aimpoint vs. Tacpoint arguement.
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Posted: 11/25/2005 8:21:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Claven2:
I don;t think the new ACOG clone would go "tits up in short order". It doesn't have tritium. It doesn;t have a Trijicon Logo and it won;t retain resale value. Otherwise, like any other $200 scope, it should perform OK though maybe not up to the same level as the real thing.

I doubt it will break from normal use though like people here are implying.

I wouldn;t trust my life to it, but there's not reason not to rely on one for range use IMHO.

Much like the Aimpoint vs. Tacpoint arguement.



Let us just see how it performs...it very well could go "tits up" as our friend has so compassionaltely put it. I assume it will work as well as anything else for the price, but I'm not going to claim it's effectiveness until I beat the crap out of it. Let's be civil about it in the meantime.
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Posted: 11/25/2005 9:07:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By 96_Bravo:


That was unprovoked....I smell sarcasm from a mile away...or is that fish?



No, no sarcasm, I'd really like to see the unit with the features. I still dont see why certain people get worked up over somethings(Colt vs Brand X, NC Star, ARMS vs Brand X....), but not others. (The Aimpoint copy - SPOT and Burris X135)
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Posted: 11/25/2005 12:49:58 PM EST
No clones, only real acogs here!
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Posted: 12/10/2005 5:31:30 PM EST
I saw this thread a few weeks back and asked 96_Bravo about where he bought his. I showed a buddy of mine the link to the scope and he had to have one to try. We sighted it in today at 100 yards then proceeded to shoot out to 400 yards using the BDC on the scope. The temperatures today where in the low 20s F and we are right around 2500 ft. We put 240 rounds down range and the scope performed very well. The BDC worked well and we didn't have any problems out to 400 yards. We where shooting 12"x12" steel plates at 100, 200, and 12"x18" at 400 yards. All shooting was done standing, kneeling, and prone in about 2 ft of snow. The scope showed no signs of fogging or adverse affects from the temperature. We will shoot farther at a later date. For the $170 he paid for the scope I don't see any problems. You really can't find a 4x compact scope, with BDC, and a mount that puts the scope at the right height in that price range. I know it is not a real ACOG, but it is not a real combat rifle either. We are going to take it out this winter for some coyote hunts and will see if it fogs.

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Posted: 12/30/2005 6:11:51 PM EST
Has anyone here tried the G&P TA31 replica like this one?Ebay auction

Yes, I know that it isn't real. Yes, I know it is a clone and that corners are cut vs. a real ACOG. I'm not using it for anything more than my own enjoyment, so spare the flames already.


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Posted: 12/31/2005 3:04:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By saleen:
Has anyone here tried the G&P TA31 replica like this one?Ebay auction

Yes, I know that it isn't real. Yes, I know it is a clone and that corners are cut vs. a real ACOG. I'm not using it for anything more than my own enjoyment, so spare the flames already.


Saleen




Can't say much about that one, but the one Jackie in the EE is selling for about $160 -- look for his ad for the aimpoint clones, for contact info, is probably more durable since it has no fiber optic provision so it is probably sealed better than the one in your link.

Here is a link to his EBAY one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Replica-ACOG-TA01-NSN-4x32-scope-for-flat-top-rail_W0QQitemZ7207159409QQcategoryZ66827QQrdZ1Q­QcmdZViewItem

I'm waiting on some more reviews, but so far am leaning twds one of these for my A2 clone's carrying handle. Wouldn't be right putting a real ACOG on a clone now would it.


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Posted: 12/31/2005 6:23:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By Eupfhoria:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the IOR 3x25 CQB a kind of 'ACOG clone'?

Its 3x fixed power, illuminated reticle... not sure what else it's got in common. I realize that it is battery powered, not tritium, and therefore more prone to failure than an ACOG, but it also costs less ($650, last time I saw). What is the least expensive ACOG model?

Just wondering because I've been thinking about getting one of these (IOR or ACOG)

added a link: IOR 3x25



You can get the IOR for about $580 at least that's what I got mine for from here:
http://usaoptics.net/iorva3xqrret.html
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Posted: 12/31/2005 6:25:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By Eupfhoria:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the IOR 3x25 CQB a kind of 'ACOG clone'?

Its 3x fixed power, illuminated reticle... not sure what else it's got in common. I realize that it is battery powered, not tritium, and therefore more prone to failure than an ACOG, but it also costs less ($650, last time I saw). What is the least expensive ACOG model?

Just wondering because I've been thinking about getting one of these (IOR or ACOG)

added a link: IOR 3x25




i dont even see anything similar other than they are both optics?


like my first post to this thread, compact acog would be the best clone. accept no subsitute and for the $650 for a battery powered optic like the ior i would try and find a compact acog or even a tao1 which will be in that price range and have a far better optic.



The IOR is extremely clear and well designed. If your battery runs out it's not like the scope becomes non-functional. I'd take one any day over a compact acog.
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Posted: 12/31/2005 7:54:31 PM EST
The IOR M2 is only $333 brand new from Mike at CS Custom in the EE. It is SIMILAR to the ACOG in that it is a 4x optic optimized for the AR15 platform with BDC capabilities and an illuminated reticle. It is NOT however, a "clone" because it was designed to function and perform rather than to look like something else that functions and performs.

If you want a 4x optic with BDC capabilities for your AR that is less expensive than the ACOG, get an IOR.

If you need an optic that gives the illusion you have an ACOG on your AR...
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Posted: 1/1/2006 5:48:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 6:07:10 AM EST by mongo001]

Originally Posted By Onslaught:
The IOR M2 is only $333 brand new from Mike at CS Custom in the EE. It is SIMILAR to the ACOG in that it is a 4x optic optimized for the AR15 platform with BDC capabilities and an illuminated reticle. It is NOT however, a "clone" because it was designed to function and perform rather than to look like something else that functions and performs.

If you want a 4x optic with BDC capabilities for your AR that is less expensive than the ACOG, get an IOR.

If you need an optic that gives the illusion you have an ACOG on your AR...



Yep, the IOR M2 is built like a tank, very clear and priced extremely well for what you get. I'd recommend a quality 4X optic, rather than a "look". YMMV.

Given the choice, the $160-180 jap knockoff doesn't stand a chance, because all it has going for it is the look-alike quality, and I use the term "quality" very loosely here.
This post edited for typos and grammatical errors.

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Posted: 1/1/2006 6:42:12 AM EST
The IOR M2 is a REAL piece of optics. Very good choice
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Posted: 1/1/2006 6:59:12 AM EST
Question - Why would someone want to buy a cheaper optic that looks like a more expensive optic?
A firearm is a tool and its appearance has no bearing on how it performs. Function should always take priority over form. To think otherwise is foolhardy.
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Posted: 1/1/2006 7:23:45 AM EST
How about posting all "clone" questions in General Discussion? It will keep the tech forums clear of "clone this and clone that" and one will probably find a more favorable reception by the crowd that hangs out in GD.
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Posted: 1/1/2006 9:06:16 AM EST
IOR or ELCAN if not ACOG
fake = toy
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Posted: 1/1/2006 10:00:26 AM EST
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Posted: 1/1/2006 10:34:44 AM EST
i consider all of my guns toys and ive put some walmart optics and ive put leupold scopes on others, long as they work i dont give a fuck if there 50 cents and made in hong kong. if the fake acog held its zero i would have no problem with it.
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Posted: 1/1/2006 10:51:27 AM EST
Why not make your own clone? Toilet paper roll tube some construction paper window glass a red magic marker, a black magic marker and some electric tape. That should be all you need. I dont see why you should pay 800 -1500 dollars for an optic when you make something that looks somewhat similiar for 3-10 bucks.
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Posted: 1/1/2006 1:43:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 1:49:27 PM EST by JosephR]
These things are like fat girls- they are cheap dirty fun but you'd never want your friends to catch you with one!

WTF? Our very own Chinese-Canadian Jon who sells these in the EE now calls his Ebay store "733t Tactical" ?? That should get him banned from AR15.com for f*cking sure!!

I had bought one of his Aimpoint clones off of Ebay about a year ago and had been answering everyone's questions for him in his EE ad. He called Brass on me and edited a ton of my comments and threatened to lock my account for "having a conversation" in the EE. After months and months of answer people's questions for Jon who was never there to answer them and generating sales, I get the whistle blown on me and my account will be locked if I continue.

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Posted: 1/1/2006 1:51:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOA:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:



Unfortunately, its the sign of the times for AR15.com. Sad really.




A-F*cking-men brother...

I had to go to Ebay to find a piece of shit and I knew what I was getting into. Now that shit is just going to fill up the EE. I could easily resell that damn thing in the box my CompM came in and some noob wouldn't even know. Hell, most people wouldn't even know. My CompM didn't come with any markings on it at all...

(It was part of that group buy gig and NOS .mil...)
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