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Posted: 4/26/2015 6:36:30 PM EDT
did a drop test today:

3 x 30 round Brownells Usgi mags with magpul followers, fully loaded.  Three 30 round gen m3 pmags, fully loaded.  

Dropped each mag from a feed lips down position to impact on the feed lips, from 5 feet onto concrete, three times each.

The Brownells had their feed lips bent terribly.  One of the three,
I could only unload 9 rounds by hand, the feed lips were so deformed the rounds couldn't be pushed out. The second of the three, I was totally unable to push any rounds out at all. The third mag let me push all thirty rounds out but it was very difficult.  None of them
Could be reloaded by hand or by stripper clips.  

All three of the magpuls I tested developed serious cracks after the drops, the shortest being 1.5 cm long, and the longe being 5cm.
By the third drop,  they were spitting out 6-8 rounds each.  After testing, I was able
To easily unload and reload each of the PMAGS.  So while damaged, it's likely they would still function at least long enough until the patrol or your shift would be over.

Bottom line:  dropping mags onto very surfaces will fuck up your mag, whether USGI or PMAG.
Link Posted: 4/26/2015 6:41:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Physics does not discriminate magazine manufacture.
Link Posted: 4/26/2015 7:22:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 4/26/2015 7:44:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Send me a couple and I happily will :)
Link Posted: 4/26/2015 7:46:39 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


That's a great test and matches what we see all the time in our testing. I would love for you to try the same test with our mags. I am confident that you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
did a drop test today:

3 x 30 round Brownells Usgi mags with magpul followers, fully loaded.  Three 30 round gen m3 pmags, fully loaded.  

Dropped each mag from a feed lips down position to impact on the feed lips, from 5 feet onto concrete, three times each.

The Brownells had their feed lips bent terribly.  One of the three,
I could only unload 9 rounds by hand, the feed lips were so deformed the rounds couldn't be pushed out. The second of the three, I was totally unable to push any rounds out at all. The third mag let me push all thirty rounds out but it was very difficult.  None of them
Could be reloaded by hand or by stripper clips.  

All three of the magpuls I tested developed serious cracks after the drops, the shortest being 1.5 cm long, and the longe being 5cm.
By the third drop,  they were spitting out 6-8 rounds each.  After testing, I was able
To easily unload and reload each of the PMAGS.  So while damaged, it's likely they would still function at least long enough until the patrol or your shift would be over.

Bottom line:  dropping mags onto very surfaces will fuck up your mag, whether USGI and PMAG.


That's a great test and matches what we see all the time in our testing. I would love for you to try the same test with our mags. I am confident that you will be pleasantly surprised.


Donate for testing?

Link Posted: 4/26/2015 9:26:20 PM EDT
[#6]
I have about 100 pmags, and only one, a foliage green one, is out of its package because it matches my AR and looks cool in pictures. I use USGI mags exclusively for all my shooting. I figure if I drop one and bend a feed lip, I might be able to use my multitool to make it serviceable again. Can't do that with a cracked plastic feed lip. Pmags for the neckbeard stash, USGI mags for actual use.
Link Posted: 4/26/2015 9:52:06 PM EDT
[#7]
I have pretty good luck not dropping loaded mags feed lip first onto concrete.


Apparently in other locales it's an epidemic.
Link Posted: 4/26/2015 10:06:28 PM EDT
[#8]


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Quoted:
I have pretty good luck not dropping loaded mags feed lip first onto concrete.


Apparently in other locales it's an epidemic.
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Lol dude
Link Posted: 4/26/2015 10:21:08 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
I have pretty good luck not dropping loaded mags feed lip first onto concrete.


Apparently in other locales it's an epidemic.
View Quote


Right?  I've fumbled some reloads over the years, never destroyed a mag doing it.  I've gone to monopod prone pretty enthusiastically quite a few times too, never damaged a mag doing that either.  

I appreciate tough gear, but it's not hard to figure out how to take reasonable care of your shit.  
Link Posted: 4/26/2015 10:32:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Agreed.  I put ranger plates on my Usgi to prevent bottom damage.
Link Posted: 4/27/2015 2:05:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Mags are disposable. Buy them cheap and stack them deep.
Link Posted: 4/27/2015 5:59:18 AM EDT
[#12]
Man, I've been shooting ARs and AKs since the 1980s, including 6 years in the Marine Corps, and I have never intentionally or unintentionally abused my gear like these guys do...

I don't get why some people expect a ten dollar piece of gear to be flawless  and indestructible...

I have no intention or expectation of ever being in a situation where my stuff gets abused this badly...

1DD

Link Posted: 4/27/2015 7:25:42 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
I have pretty good luck not dropping loaded mags feed lip first onto concrete.


Apparently in other locales it's an epidemic.
View Quote

lol. This.
Link Posted: 4/27/2015 9:35:30 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Mags are disposable. Buy them cheap and stack them deep.
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Link Posted: 4/27/2015 11:27:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 4/27/2015 1:47:51 PM EDT
[#17]
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Really great links. thank you!
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 9:39:42 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:

I don't get why some people expect a ten dollar piece of gear to be flawless  and indestructible...


View Quote



Because manufacturers and their loyal fans post over and over and over how good a certain product is year after year and attack any statement to the contrary.  I totally get why people would think they are unbreakable.
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 9:48:27 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


I am more than happy to send you a mag to beat the hell out of. Shoot me an IM with your info and I will get a mag on the way to you.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Send me a couple and I happily will :)


I am more than happy to send you a mag to beat the hell out of. Shoot me an IM with your info and I will get a mag on the way to you.


You make some nice looking mags. May have to buy one or two to test out.
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 11:42:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 11:48:24 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
Man, I've been shooting ARs and AKs since the 1980s, including 6 years in the Marine Corps, and I have never intentionally or unintentionally abused my gear like these guys do...

I don't get why some people expect a ten dollar piece of gear to be flawless  and indestructible...

I have no intention or expectation of ever being in a situation where my stuff gets abused this badly...

1DD

View Quote


Completely agree.  I don't expect them to be indestructible.  I fully understand it's a piece of metal, subject to laws of physics.  This is an absolute worst case scenario, like something catastrophic like falling down a cliff, having mags spill out of your rig and bounce around.  Likely - no, not likely.  Possible?  Yes, theoretically.  

I also understand that abuse of mags is the main cause of failure, which is why I put ranger or L plates on all my mags.
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 3:05:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 3:11:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 3:36:36 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:


Except for the fact that the Shotgun News link is about five years old and none of the magazines tested are still being produced.
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Really great links. thank you!


Except for the fact that the Shotgun News link is about five years old and none of the magazines tested are still being produced.


Good points, Magpul.  Thanks for adding to the discussion.  I have not tested them for firing functionality, and actually, that makes sense to do so.  I'm gonna hit the range tonight with the three jacked up USGIs and the three cracked Pmags (one 40, two 30's, both M3) and check for reliability.
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 4:12:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 4:15:05 PM EDT
[#26]
So it's stronger than than a black m3?
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 4:23:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 5:30:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Except for the fact that the Shotgun News link is about five years old and none of the magazines tested are still being produced.
View Quote


The fairly recent test done by one of the forum members here had basically the same exact results.....

Even though the SGN test is five years old, I'll bet anything the current Lancer magazine is just as unbreakable.
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 5:55:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 6:31:01 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:


Yes we hate that too. This is why we post clearly defined testing using high speed video to verify impact, use factory USGI magazines as a control and live fire auto test the results.

https://youtu.be/jQxYXTYohPI?list=PLLLtq9scclwKVYVSGUsrOsprdHo_TKJt7
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

I don't get why some people expect a ten dollar piece of gear to be flawless  and indestructible...





Because manufacturers and their loyal fans post over and over and over how good a certain product is year after year and attack any statement to the contrary.  I totally get why people would think they are unbreakable.


Yes we hate that too. This is why we post clearly defined testing using high speed video to verify impact, use factory USGI magazines as a control and live fire auto test the results.

https://youtu.be/jQxYXTYohPI?list=PLLLtq9scclwKVYVSGUsrOsprdHo_TKJt7




Well done sir~
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:13:23 AM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:


I am more than happy to send you a mag to beat the hell out of. Shoot me an IM with your info and I will get a mag on the way to you.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Send me a couple and I happily will :)


I am more than happy to send you a mag to beat the hell out of. Shoot me an IM with your info and I will get a mag on the way to you.

Do you know of any LE departments using issuing your magazines?.
We utilize mostly GI and P-Mags, but test others for possible use as well.
Thanks
G.G.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:35:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Kind of reminds me of a story my Dad mentioned from back when he was working for a petrochem company, and doing materials development work.  They were working on some of the first generation rubber/plastic garbage cans, instead of the classic bent sheet metal style trash cans.  The technical service department got a call from an irate customer, who was very disappointed that his product failed.   Good stuff!  Going to learn something new: they were excited to have a customer calling who experienced a failure, so they could learn of something to improve.   So they asked what happened.  Turns out, customer had taken this new indestructible material trashcan up to the top of a multi-story building, filled it with water, pushed it off.  He was very disappointed that the indestructible material failed.

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:24:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 3:30:56 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:


I think you are missing the point. The mission of the PMag is to reliability feed ammunition in all environments. The fact that it is robust is a just secondary benefit.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Except for the fact that the Shotgun News link is about five years old and none of the magazines tested are still being produced.


The fairly recent test done by one of the forum members here had basically the same exact results.....

Even though the SGN test is five years old, I'll bet anything the current Lancer magazine is just as unbreakable.


I think you are missing the point. The mission of the PMag is to reliability feed ammunition in all environments. The fact that it is robust is a just secondary benefit.



Perhaps I am.  Assuming  basic function to be equal I think a magazine that is tougher than a USGI mag is an accomplishment (I don't think anyone will disagree with this)
In the same vein I think a magazine that is unbreakable, not only tougher and more robust but unbreakable, like a Lancer magazine is a better and more significant accomplishment.  Is my logic flawed?
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 8:38:31 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:



Because manufacturers and their loyal fans post over and over and over how good a certain product is year after year and attack any statement to the contrary.  I totally get why people would think they are unbreakable.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

I don't get why some people expect a ten dollar piece of gear to be flawless  and indestructible...





Because manufacturers and their loyal fans post over and over and over how good a certain product is year after year and attack any statement to the contrary.  I totally get why people would think they are unbreakable.


Yep. Hell, I still have Thermolds from the ban ol' days, and they've never failed me. According to the Hive, they should be spitting rounds out everywhere, and should be falling apart and melting. Do I treat them rough? Not really. Shoot, if it's bad enough for a mag to be damaged, I'm probably too preoccupied to care and will just grab another mag and drive on.
Link Posted: 5/1/2015 10:37:11 PM EDT
[#36]
I don't think PMAGS are as bomb-proof as The Hive Mind seems to think.  On drop tests, fully loaded from shoulder height, 3/5 of the Gen M3s developed splits on the spine on the first drop.  Those same three developed cracks of about 1.5 inch long each on the second drop. Those three were unable to hold more than 20 rounds each - they did fire just fine.  However, the USGIs had no issues.  

Bottom line, to me, is that all mags are damaged by drops.  To me,  it's wash whether to use a USGI tan follower with ranger plate or a pmag, for about the same price.  When you take into account how the pmags were damaged you would need to add a ranger plate to them to protect them,  which would widen the price gap.  Doesn't seem worth the extra $ to me.
Link Posted: 5/2/2015 11:25:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Dropping mags is a Derp move (we all accidentally do it ).

Don't drop your mags! If you do and you damage a mag, punch yourself in the junk as a penalty.
Link Posted: 5/2/2015 3:57:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Lol agree.  My tests, the ones conducted by WI57, Fortier via SGN, and numerous others have shown that PMAGS crack on spines when dropped.  Considering I can buy Brownells Usgi with MP followers and ranger plates to protect the bases for $12.99, Pmags start to lose their appeal.  Especially considering you'd need to add a $4.99 ranger plate to each PMAG to reduce spine splitting from drops.  I don't plan on running my magazines over.


Magpul can post all the test videos they want but I've seen one MAJOR flaw in ALL their videos: they never show you a closeup of the feed lips or the spines after drops.  Probably because cracks formed.
Link Posted: 5/2/2015 6:57:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Cracks or no cracks the Pmag continued to function while the aluminum magazine failed immediately.
Function is better than failure.

I poster prior I had Thermold / Canadian military mags that a few split on the weld seam in extreme cold weather use. All the mags still functioned then and years later and the split increased in length initially but stopped at some point.
The mags would swell out when loaded to capacity and it was harder to insert into the gun and would not drop free when fully loaded but ran fine in its select fire host.

Its good to have a mix of magazine no matter what the material or brand. The Pmag is great for what it as and the price point.
Now if Brownells can get their AR10 mags to market....
Link Posted: 5/4/2015 12:09:30 PM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
Physics does not discriminate magazine manufacture.
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Science Bitch!!
Link Posted: 5/4/2015 3:40:50 PM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:

Science Bitch!!
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Physics does not discriminate magazine manufacture.

Science Bitch!!




Its not the vertical drop. its that damn deceleration thing.......
Link Posted: 5/4/2015 4:28:06 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:
I have pretty good luck not dropping loaded mags feed lip first onto concrete.


Apparently in other locales it's an epidemic.
View Quote


Hi,

You do have the advantage of not being named Mongo;;;

Mel Brookes is a Genius

Regards

Link Posted: 5/4/2015 4:32:48 PM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:
And, if the increased performance in drop testing is something that anyone feels is needed over the conventional black GEN M3, the Sand material GEN M3 survives multiple feed lip drops at -60, a pile at room temp, and a LOT at elevated temps, and none of the other characteristics are compromised, so you get the same flawless reliability in dust, grit, heat, cold, water, M855A1 projectiles, etc. It also costs the same, and it can be easily dyed in camouflage patterns or the color of your choosing.

View Quote


Hi,

Although I'm not really interested, my son will be thrilled by this news.

Regards:
Link Posted: 5/4/2015 5:02:28 PM EDT
[#44]
ETS group sent me a free mag to test out.  I dropped it 5 times, loaded with 30 IMI M193, onto the feed lips from shoulder height, no damage.  Then the same to the bottom, no damage.  Then run over with my car 3 times, no issues.

Seems like a very solid mag.  Haven't done fire testing yet, that will be on thursday.
Link Posted: 5/4/2015 5:56:34 PM EDT
[#45]
Link Posted: 5/4/2015 9:40:30 PM EDT
[#46]
I am unable to get it to seat on a closed bolt with 30 rounds, but works like a charm with 29.
Link Posted: 5/4/2015 10:09:51 PM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:
I am unable to get it to seat on a closed bolt with 30 rounds, but works like a charm with 29.
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Just wondering if this was before your tests as well? Thanks
Link Posted: 5/4/2015 10:35:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 1:12:23 AM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:


You must have 31 rounds it it. It will hold 31 and won't seat on a closed bolt with 31. With 30 rounds the top round should be on the left side.
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Quoted:
I am unable to get it to seat on a closed bolt with 30 rounds, but works like a charm with 29.


You must have 31 rounds it it. It will hold 31 and won't seat on a closed bolt with 31. With 30 rounds the top round should be on the left side.


Yep, I'm a newb....31 the whole time lol.  Just emptied, refilled to 30, and no problems seating.  To me this represents a serious increase in serviceability/utility over USGI, and yes, even over PMAG: no downloading needed, no spine or feedlip cracking with rough handling.  Seems to be GTG.  I have a lancer coming in the mail this week, so I'll be comparing this vs Lancer as well.
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 11:01:18 AM EDT
[#50]
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