The new C-Products Defense, Inc. - Page 2

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Posted: 4/20/2012 3:07:43 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Do I hear Aimless getting the ban hammer from the arfcom closet?

No. C Products Defense website is registered to a woman named Jamil. They may have bought it from Larry and Larry's just selling the magazines.

Sorry Aimless...but its amazing how little you've been informed of the situation w/Larry, Chad, Mr./Ms. Jamil, ASC/old CP of Connecticut, and CProducts Defense of FL. But thats not your fault. Some of us have much more of the story because we're in direct contact w/Larry an Chad and have a good respectful relationship with them, and faith they'll do the right thing. I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ASCand what they did to the old CP...because its not the way to resolve a business dispute. ASC's owners had was a big V for Vendetta stamped on their foreheads.

C products breached their contract with asc, you get sued and the judgment gets collected, that's how business works. It's not like Larry is a 19 year old private sewing up magazine pouches in his cellar. He is an experienced business person. He should know to read contracts, have a lawyer etc. I know they claim they had justification for breaching the contract because asc did not carry out the work properly, but apparently the judge or jury was not convinced.

The whole time that was going on Larry was still taking money and orders and posting here as if he had some deal to sell to anew owner.

In my few dealings with Larry he seemed like a likable guy. The world is full of untrustworthy likeable guys. There a billion other p,aces to get magazines. Personally I have had enough of playing middle man over crap mags and unfilled orders.

Posted: 4/20/2012 3:23:10 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

At one point not long ago, I was once labeled the CP fanboy or whatever. Hey the old CP was good to me, and Larry and Chad are outstanding individuals. Well, sometimes such things have a way of rewarding you. About 3 months ago, Larry Panka contacted me about doing evaluations on their new Stainless Steel mags. About 3-4 weeks ago, I received the SS AR 5.56 mag evals from Larry. Initial observations and feedback are that these are oustanding SS Mags, and probably the best finihs and design I've ever seen. Below is an email excerpt with Larry about 3 weeks ago with my initial observations...

**********************

Hi Larry!

Once again, I greatly appreciate the kind and generous offer for sending me some evals. From initial observations, I am VERY EXCITED about your SS mags - no sharp edges, GREAT TERRIFIC FINISH (more why below), and tough & durable!

MATERIAL - The durability of stainless steel was the Number 1 feature why I liked SS mags in the first place, and I noticed a few things about your SS mag. At first, I couuldn't believe it was an SS mag. it was lighter than any SS 5.56 mag I tried or had seen before. My honest gut reaction was that thsi coudln't be SS, but some tougher aluminum alloy. It felt too lightweight to be SS, btu after doing tests (not analtical), it was very clear it weighed mroe than any aluminum mag I had. Body thickness and dimensions didn't look like an SS mag either, appearing almost exactly like the C-Product and preban USGI aluminum mags I had. It wasn't until I removed the basepalte, and observed the different spring and follower. In particular, the follower is definitely for thsi mag, as it won't work in your aluminum mag, and vice versa with aluminum mag followers. (Your followers are great BTW.)

FYI - Larry, I'm probably going to really abuse-test this mag when I get the chance, such as drop tests, run over with my truck & SUV, and run different rounds exclusively for a few 1000. I also have 5 different brands of lower receivers to test fit (from Bushmaster, Armalite/Aero Precision, Delton, RRA, LMT), and 3 brands of uppers for function (Bushmaster, RRA, LMT).

FINISH - I much prefer thsi finish than the gray or black finish on the CProduct or preban USGI mags I have - or other modern day metal mags! The balck is a good dark color, but not too dark as to stand out. What is great is that it is not glossy, but a good drab dark charcoal, no gloss or reflection in bright sunlight - that is a great tactical finish, adn what I'd rather have for all my metal mags. So, kudos on the color, hue, etc of the finish. I do not have good tests on the durability yet, but so far its holds up excellently. I have rubbed it harshly again my used preban USGI and used CProducts, ran it a few times in my LBV vest and loading it into USGI MOLLE dual mag pouches as well as just rough handling by throwing it into a toolbox. These are similar to early tests with my first CProduct AL mags a few months before I bought the 700 AL {old} CP mags. The SS Mag finish is far better because it holds up very well in initial tests and is perfect for tactical needs where a glossy finish isn't desirable.

FOLLOWER - clearly same design as CProducts, but clearly dimensioned for SS mag body. no compliants. I think its a terrific follower and does the job perfectly. And hopefully its still priced like a Chevy for a Cdillac product, (unlike some other followers I know of).

SPRING - looks like a stainless? I can't tell, but it does appear different from teh CProduct CS springs I have. Again, no complaints here.

MAG BODY & WELDS - mag body is clearly for SS in that any Aluminum follower doesn't fit properly or work well in this mag - I tried. Mag body tack welds look great. AS ntoed in earlier emails, one of my pet peeves about previus SS mags werethe sharp edges of the SS metal and ending up with slightly sliced up hands or clothing or gear. YOUR SS MAG is unlike any other SS mags out there! No sharp edges - no cuts, no slicing, clean spot welds - terrific attention to detail!

I expect that it won't fail me at all. I will let you knwo when I run it over (on concrete, gravel, and dirt) how it holds up, with the basepalte, spring, and follower properly installed, with 30rds.

FUNCTION - haven't had a chance to test fire with my AR's, due to holidays, family activites, work, weather, terribel mosquitoes down here. But fit is perfect with all 5 brands of lower receivers, and presumably uppers won't have an issue. Feeds as expected and drops free and easy as expected also. Also, tested with 2 types of LULA's - StripLULA from MagLULA/Butler CReek, and a unknown brand (not my preferred one), and standard USGI "spoons" - works as expected and equal performace as comapred to other USGI mags when loading individual rounds or from 10rd stripper clips.

So the last thing I have to do is the full livefire function test and after taht, runnign it over and test livefire again.

************************************************************

And from a reply when Larry first contacted me 3 months ago about the evals:

"...just for your information, I refrained from buying SS AR mags since 2002. I had about 3-4 dzn SS mags from 2-3 manufacturers bought during the preban years. Over those years, I kept experiencing thin shallow cuts and slices to my finges and hands whenever using SS compared to the aluminum ones. These thin cuts were nothing painful or medically worrisome. But over time, and if I used my SS mags extensively, it was an annoyance. The portion of the SS mag body where the two halves are spot-welded together typically had sharp metal edges - the source of the shallow cuts.

The problem for me arose when I began accumulating a lot of mil-surplus USGI MOLLE gear - vests, dump pouches, mag pouches, etc. I have an investment of 100's of new USGI mag pouches, dozens of vests, etc. I noticed that my old SS mags sliced up the mag pouches and other MOLLE gear. The wear & tear was noticeable and much worse than with USGI Aluminum mags. (PMags just never fit standard USGI MOLLE gear very well, but I am very much looking forward to teh PMag Rev M3, with dimensions similar to teh EMag..)

As far as form, function, and reliability, i felt SS was as good for me as USGI aluminum AR mags. I do prefer SS mags for greater durability and toughness against the elements and whatever might be thrown at them, albeit being slightly heavier. But I am concerned about the sharper metal edges when used with my MOLLE or tactical gear. I've got $1000's invested in that gear, and there's no point for a SS mag to cut it up, not when AL or polymer treat the gear much better. ..."

*****************************************

There you have it. I'll let y'all know the results from abuse and function testing. Haven't had any chance due to heavy involvement lately managing a large construction project for my company. That's a few more weeks.

So Larry's still involved with c products, right? These were c products mags you were sent.

Funny how Larry is sending c products mags out for evaluation, but mr Jamal's never heard of him?

WAY WAY WAY OFF AIMLESS - again not your fault.

What I received are CLEARLY NOTHING I HAVE SEEN from any market, from ANY brand or any other manufacturer, including and especially from the old C Products of Connecticut. The body may have been stamped from existing dies from another manufacturer but I'm told its new dies, new machinery, new stampings. THE REAL EVIDENCE THAT THESE ARE A COMPLETELY NEW STYLE, BRAND, TYPE, PRODUCT OF STAINLESS IS THE FINISH.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN this kind of finish on ANY mag, whether aluminum, steel, stainless, or ANY caliber. And I've been buying mags for over 15 years, and have seen almost every kind of AR mag out there with my own two eyes and not pictures, and held and fondle the same with my own two hands. And I have NEVER seen any finish or coating that so far can hold up to standard abuse...after loading and firing, dumping, halndling, and inserting into mag pouches alongsode other mags, the finish on this SS mag defnitely holds up much better than what I've seen from other USGI-contract, USGI-types of, prebans, and any other current production metal (stainless, aluminum) AR 30rd mags out there. The finish isn't the final answer or the one and only end all, but it sure holds up far better than anything so far. And looks good.

Lastly - the final proof - these mags came in a package with a return address of Brandenton, FLORIDA NOT NEWINGTON, CONNECTICUT. Also, the baseplate wasn't stamped but blank - it was an eval.

All I can say, as I've said already, is this is a fantastic new STAINLESS STEEL mag from C Products Defence of Brandenton, Florida. And I have so far been thoroughly impressed. (If ya want pics, they'll be coming, but right now I'm working 7/12's for the enxt 3 weeks managing an important construction job for my company...it'll be a while. And pics won't do justice to the look & feel of the mag finish; a pic will look like that of any other AR mag really.)

Posted: 4/20/2012 3:32:55 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Do I hear Aimless getting the ban hammer from the arfcom closet?

No. C Products Defense website is registered to a woman named Jamil. They may have bought it from Larry and Larry's just selling the magazines.

Sorry Aimless...but its amazing how little you've been informed of the situation w/Larry, Chad, Mr./Ms. Jamil, ASC/old CP of Connecticut, and CProducts Defense of FL. But thats not your fault. Some of us have much more of the story because we're in direct contact w/Larry an Chad and have a good respectful relationship with them, and faith they'll do the right thing. I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ASCand what they did to the old CP...because its not the way to resolve a business dispute. ASC's owners had was a big V for Vendetta stamped on their foreheads.

C products breached their contract with asc, you get sued and the judgment gets collected, that's how business works. It's not like Larry is a 19 year old private sewing up magazine pouches in his cellar. He is an experienced business person. He should know to read contracts, have a lawyer etc. I know they claim they had justification for breaching the contract because asc did not carry out the work properly, but apparently the judge or jury was not convinced.

The whole time that was going on Larry was still taking money and orders and posting here as if he had some deal to sell to anew owner.

In my few dealings with Larry he seemed like a likable guy. The world is full of untrustworthy likeable guys. There a billion other p,aces to get magazines. Personally I have had enough of playing middle man over crap mags and unfilled orders.

Hey, I fully agree with you. I've been burned by Jeep-Eagle, Chysler, and Chevrolet thruoughout all of the 80's and 90's. Since 1999, I have NEVER bought from or recommended those cars, no matter how good or great they are today. In business, its all business. But I have NEVER heard the "new" owner of ASC on this board, and their CS and product gets all sorts of reviews good and bad. Don't the new owner, don't like him, and all he's got is a V for Vendetta on his forehead, and maybe a big A for asshole on his buttcheeks too.

I understand how getting burned makes you never trust anyone again. But I didn't get burned by Larry or Chad, so for me its a different story. They made great inexpensive mags, and great products for the money. For some of us, we've been well taken care of, and well serviced. That's worth doing business with Larry, Chad, and Mr Jamil. Also, I respect that Larry's a Veteran, and priced their products fairly, unlike many manufacturers who target the lucrative USGI-govt contracts and hike prices knowing there's an imminent demand for anything the USMIL buys. I fully expect C Products Defense, Inc of Bradenton, FLORIDA will do far better than the old C Products/new ASC.

I support Larry, Chad, CP of FL. I understand you don't. I hope you don't mind but I think that's the end of the story. If you want, I can buy an eval from Larry and send you that new SS mag, no charge, not that it would make you happy, but as a gesture of goodwill.

Posted: 4/20/2012 3:54:00 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Do I hear Aimless getting the ban hammer from the arfcom closet?

No. C Products Defense website is registered to a woman named Jamil. They may have bought it from Larry and Larry's just selling the magazines.

Sorry Aimless...but its amazing how little you've been informed of the situation w/Larry, Chad, Mr./Ms. Jamil, ASC/old CP of Connecticut, and CProducts Defense of FL. But thats not your fault. Some of us have much more of the story because we're in direct contact w/Larry an Chad and have a good respectful relationship with them, and faith they'll do the right thing. I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ASCand what they did to the old CP...because its not the way to resolve a business dispute. ASC's owners had was a big V for Vendetta stamped on their foreheads.

C products breached their contract with asc, you get sued and the judgment gets collected, that's how business works. It's not like Larry is a 19 year old private sewing up magazine pouches in his cellar. He is an experienced business person. He should know to read contracts, have a lawyer etc. I know they claim they had justification for breaching the contract because asc did not carry out the work properly, but apparently the judge or jury was not convinced.

The whole time that was going on Larry was still taking money and orders and posting here as if he had some deal to sell to anew owner.

In my few dealings with Larry he seemed like a likable guy. The world is full of untrustworthy likeable guys. There a billion other p,aces to get magazines. Personally I have had enough of playing middle man over crap mags and unfilled orders.

Hey, I fully agree with you. I've been burned by Jeep-Eagle, Chysler, and Chevrolet thruoughout all of the 80's and 90's. Since 1999, I have NEVER bought from or recommended those cars, no matter how good or great they are today. In business, its all business. But I have NEVER heard the "new" owner of ASC on this board, and their CS and product gets all sorts of reviews good and bad. Don't the new owner, don't like him, and all he's got is a V for Vendetta on his forehead, and maybe a big A for asshole on his buttcheeks too.

I understand how getting burned makes you never trust anyone again. But I didn't get burned by Larry or Chad, so for me its a different story. They made great inexpensive mags, and great products for the money. For some of us, we've been well taken care of, and well serviced. That's worth doing business with Larry, Chad, and Mr Jamil. Also, I respect that Larry's a Veteran, and priced their products fairly, unlike many manufacturers who target the lucrative USGI-govt contracts and hike prices knowing there's an imminent demand for anything the USMIL buys. I fully expect C Products Defense, Inc of Bradenton, FLORIDA will do far better than the old C Products/new ASC.

I support Larry, Chad, CP of FL. I understand you don't. I hope you don't mind but I think that's the end of the story. If you want, I can buy an eval from Larry and send you that new SS mag, no charge, not that it would make you happy, but as a gesture of goodwill.

I don't want to sound like there are some hard feelings. If you feel like because of your relationship with Larry you have reason to believe he has turned things around or whatever then you should do business with him. Business people in the United States fail and try to come back, we don't jump off buildings like the Japanese when things go South. Maybe he has learned from his mistakes and I would be delighted to see him go on and prosper I just personally do not want to be involved in any more "my mags don't work" "I never got my mags" tennis matches. But you guys are adults, do what you think serves you best.

Please don't send me any mags though, they are probably illegal here

Posted: 4/20/2012 4:03:20 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How things have turned. I thought everyone was mad at Chad and Larry a few months ago because they left people high and dry, holding empty bags?

There were unfilled orders they took money for and did not fill. They also lied about what happened when they lost their company through that lawsuit. They made posts here acting as it there was some new owner they were working with.

C Products were a constant source of problems, mags that did not work, mags that wre paid for and not delivered.

Part of their problem was being disorganized. One day I arrived home to find a box of 7.62x39 shipped directly from C-Products as replacements on a RMA. I had never bought or returned any 7.62x39 mags, so I contacted Chad about it. He took all of the information and told me to keep the mags. The RMA had all of my info so I had no idea who was supposed to get them, or if a RMA had been generated by accident.

Posted: 4/20/2012 5:21:40 AM EDT

[#6]

Aimless, I am quite shocked at your responses on this forum. You don't have enough information or background on what really happened to comment. If you ever want the TRUTH give me a call, everything I will tell you can easily be checked and verified. I have nothing to hide.

My original post was to make sure everyone understood that Adel owns CPD and he gets all the credit for what he is building. I did not post to bicker over the past and I can assure the Beekeeper I will not be a problem on this forum.

Posted: 4/20/2012 5:41:16 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Aimless, I am quite shocked at your responses on this forum. You don't have enough information or background on what really happened to comment. If you ever want the TRUTH give me a call, everything I will tell you can easily be checked and verified. I have nothing to hide.

My original post was to make sure everyone understood that Adel owns CPD and he gets all the credit for what he is building. I did not post to bicker over the past and I can assure the Beekeeper I will not be a problem on this forum.

Who are you?

nevermind it's Larry.

Posted: 4/20/2012 6:14:23 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
.chad admitted that cprod did rip some people off,but blamed it on barry.I don't trust them anymore,but if I came accross a great deal on mags I still might buy some.,but with other companies selling 10 packs for a lot less[ I cant see taking a chance. The Manatee Board of County Commissioners approved $100,000 in performance-based incentives for CPD. To qualify for the incentives, the company must hire 100 employees over the next five years at an average wage that is 15 percent higher than the county average]http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii413/mcrebell_photo/ac0741bd.jpg http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii413/mcrebell_photo/71d0918e.jpg

Bingo!
That's exactly what I was alluding to in my previous post.

Note the date the articles of incorporation were filed: July 2011, and the address:
http://www.sunbiz.org/pdf/00176718.pdf

Identical address to LCJ Wholesale:
http://www.sunbiz.org/pdf/10628041.pdf

Two months later, Larry Panka is giving interviews stating he is the President of C Product Defense:

http://www.thebradentontimes.com/news

“The state has proven its commitment to manufacturers moving to Florida, where the advantages for expansion and growth are exceptional. The state and Manatee County understand the importance of manufacturing companies locating in Florida,” said CPD President Larry Panka, Sr.

And indicates that LCJ is a "sister company" and both will move to the Brandenton facility.

The county’s rapid response permitting program expedited CPD’s move to an existing 19,600-square-foot facility in south Manatee County. CPD’s sister company, LCJ Wholesale

Same info available in http://www.heraldtribune.com/

So while Larry Panka "sold" the company to Adel and Carol Jamil, he is still the president and involved in their operations.

Posted: 4/20/2012 6:50:22 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If this doesn't stir up more confusion on who makes what different mags and when, I don't know what will.
Best of luck to them, but I would've changed the company name.

ACR = Finishing Co. that took CP's tooling in lawsuit = bad mag finish and quality.

CProd = Old CP owner.

LCJ Wholesale = Also owned by old CP owner. All this was explained in this thread.

The gentleman I talked to specifically identified himself as the owner of C Products Defense, Inc. and it was NOT Larry Panka.

Adel Jamil is the sole owner of C Products Defense. If he had owned the original C Products LLC it would have been the best manufacturer of magazines. He now will make CPD the best!

But Larry was the owner and is still a corporate officer?

So Larry, what position or legal relationship, if any, do you presently have with C Products Defense?

Posted: 4/20/2012 8:29:21 AM EDT

[#10]

I did not sell anything to Adel. He purchased the assets of C Products from the bank. I had nothing to do with the sale.

Aimless....I am doing what I enjoy most that is selling. I represent a number of companies including CPD. I have no ownership, no legal position with any company other than promoting sales for some companies and moving on with my life.

Posted: 4/20/2012 9:28:24 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Aimless, I am quite shocked at your responses on this forum. You don't have enough information or background on what really happened to comment. If you ever want the TRUTH give me a call, everything I will tell you can easily be checked and verified. I have nothing to hide.

My original post was to make sure everyone understood that Adel owns CPD and he gets all the credit for what he is building. I did not post to bicker over the past and I can assure the Beekeeper I will not be a problem on this forum.

Larry, what happened to the $6.99 30rd mags that we used to know and love? Why are they now double?

Posted: 4/20/2012 9:29:40 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

I did not sell anything to Adel. He purchased the assets of C Products from the bank. I had nothing to do with the sale.

Aimless....I am doing what I enjoy most that is selling. I represent a number of companies including CPD. I have no ownership, no legal position with any company other than promoting sales for some companies and moving on with my life.

Good for you, good luck

Posted: 4/20/2012 10:37:08 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I did not sell anything to Adel. He purchased the assets of C Products from the bank. I had nothing to do with the sale.

Aimless....I am doing what I enjoy most that is selling. I represent a number of companies including CPD. I have no ownership, no legal position with any company other than promoting sales for some companies and moving on with my life.

Good for you, good luck

You should be sending mags out to everyone you screwed over as business picks up. Untill that process begins you shouldnt be allowed to post.

Posted: 4/20/2012 11:08:26 AM EDT

[#14]

I like there 10 round SS mags.

Posted: 4/20/2012 11:34:32 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Aimless, I am quite shocked at your responses on this forum. You don't have enough information or background on what really happened to comment. If you ever want the TRUTH give me a call, everything I will tell you can easily be checked and verified. I have nothing to hide.

My original post was to make sure everyone understood that Adel owns CPD and he gets all the credit for what he is building. I did not post to bicker over the past and I can assure the Beekeeper I will not be a problem on this forum.

Larry, what happened to the $6.99 30rd mags that we used to know and love? Why are they now double?

I would seriously like to hear about the "contract" to make 40 round mags for the military. What happened to that???

Posted: 4/20/2012 1:55:20 PM EDT

[#16]

meisha11-
You probably should have started with: "I am Larry Panka." Just an observation.

I've never had a problem with any of my old CProducts mags, and will buy some of the new ones, especially the new 6.8 mags.
I never bought the mags because they were cheap, I bought them because they were stainless steel and worked very well for me.

Quoted:
There were unfilled orders they took money for and did not fill.

Did they get their money back? Genuinely curious, I didn't follow the thread.

Posted: 4/20/2012 2:09:49 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
meisha11-
You probably should have started with: "I am Larry Panka." Just an observation.

I've never had a problem with any of my old CProducts mags, and will buy some of the new ones, especially the new 6.8 mags.
I never bought the mags because they were cheap, I bought them because they were stainless steel and worked very well for me.

Quoted:
There were unfilled orders they took money for and did not fill.

Did they get their money back? Genuinely curious, I didn't follow the thread.

That is an excellent question.

Posted: 4/20/2012 2:23:42 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I did not sell anything to Adel. He purchased the assets of C Products from the bank. I had nothing to do with the sale.

Aimless....I am doing what I enjoy most that is selling. I represent a number of companies including CPD. I have no ownership, no legal position with any company other than promoting sales for some companies and moving on with my life.

Good for you, good luck

You should be sending mags out to everyone you screwed over as business picks up. Untill that process begins you shouldnt be allowed to post.

Posted: 4/20/2012 4:28:53 PM EDT

[#19]

Just got an email from aimsurplus $9.95 for CProducts aluminum mags, $8.95 is you buy 10. They are not called CProducts Defense, not sure why. LINK

Personally I would rather get....These I can understand the Stainless ones being more expensive, but D&H mags with magpul followers for the same price is a no brainer IMHO.

Posted: 4/20/2012 4:43:48 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Just got an email from aimsurplus $9.95 for CProducts aluminum mags, $8.95 is you buy 10. They are not called CProducts Defense, not sure why. LINK

Personally I would rather get....These I can understand the Stainless ones being more expensive, but D&H mags with magpul followers for the same price is a no brainer IMHO.

If they aren't C Products Defense marked, then the are the old stock from the old company. All of the new stock is C Products Defense marked.

Posted: 4/20/2012 5:40:17 PM EDT

[#21]

I have a feeling the guys at aimsurplus just "reactivated" the old pageand didnt realize the change. I can ask them about it.

Posted: 4/20/2012 6:20:47 PM EDT

[#22]

Yay more Cproducts crap.

Posted: 4/20/2012 6:58:37 PM EDT

[#23]

It will take more than special prices to sway me. I will stick with my D&H, Colt and Magpul mags.

Posted: 4/20/2012 7:01:50 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
The big deal with the new ones is that they are making a 6.8 mag that will allow 2.3 inches or slightly better COAL, they are far superior to the old ones, and on par and possibly better than the PRI and Barrett mags, all while coming in a around $12-$14 bucks.
Right now the only mag that allows the longer COAL is the PRI, and it's right at $40.

I hope to get a couple of the new 6.8 mags soon. When I do I will do a write up on them for you guys

Interesting. I have a couple of "6.8" C Products mags that feed my Grendel slick as a gut.

Posted: 4/20/2012 7:40:41 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The big deal with the new ones is that they are making a 6.8 mag that will allow 2.3 inches or slightly better COAL, they are far superior to the old ones, and on par and possibly better than the PRI and Barrett mags, all while coming in a around $12-$14 bucks.
Right now the only mag that allows the longer COAL is the PRI, and it's right at $40.

I hope to get a couple of the new 6.8 mags soon. When I do I will do a write up on them for you guys

Interesting. I have a couple of "6.8" C Products mags that feed my Grendel slick as a gut.

You'll still need the follower for it to function 100%.

The only reason I know that they are the same mag bodies is that we had this discussion over on 68furms a while back.

It was discussed here as well.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ar15.com%2Farchive%2Ftopic.html%3Fb%3D3%26f%3D121%26t%3D339169&ei=6iuST8CzH5P46QGppbiTBA&usg=AFQjCNHeooVvHpXmIG4SzSUTOUFY8Ee90w

Posted: 4/22/2012 5:50:31 AM EDT

[#26]

Posted by meisha11:
Aimless....I am doing what I enjoy most that is selling. I represent a number of companies including CPD. I have no ownership, no legal position with any company other than promoting sales for some companies and moving on with my life.

So, how do you explain the references in this thread that identify you as the President of CPD?

Posted: 4/22/2012 8:20:35 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The big deal with the new ones is that they are making a 6.8 mag that will allow 2.3 inches or slightly better COAL, they are far superior to the old ones, and on par and possibly better than the PRI and Barrett mags, all while coming in a around $12-$14 bucks.
Right now the only mag that allows the longer COAL is the PRI, and it's right at $40.

I hope to get a couple of the new 6.8 mags soon. When I do I will do a write up on them for you guys

Interesting. I have a couple of "6.8" C Products mags that feed my Grendel slick as a gut.

You'll still need the follower for it to function 100%.

The only reason I know that they are the same mag bodies is that we had this discussion over on 68furms a while back.

It was discussed here as well.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ar15.com%2Farchive%2Ftopic.html%3Fb%3D3%26f%3D121%26t%3D339169&ei=6iuST8CzH5P46QGppbiTBA&usg=AFQjCNHeooVvHpXmIG4SzSUTOUFY8Ee90w

Do you realize that your link contradicts what you said? I got CP 6.8 and 6.5 mags, the followers are identical other than the color.

Posted: 4/22/2012 9:43:19 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The big deal with the new ones is that they are making a 6.8 mag that will allow 2.3 inches or slightly better COAL, they are far superior to the old ones, and on par and possibly better than the PRI and Barrett mags, all while coming in a around $12-$14 bucks.
Right now the only mag that allows the longer COAL is the PRI, and it's right at $40.

I hope to get a couple of the new 6.8 mags soon. When I do I will do a write up on them for you guys

Interesting. I have a couple of "6.8" C Products mags that feed my Grendel slick as a gut.

You'll still need the follower for it to function 100%.

The only reason I know that they are the same mag bodies is that we had this discussion over on 68furms a while back.

It was discussed here as well.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ar15.com%2Farchive%2Ftopic.html%3Fb%3D3%26f%3D121%26t%3D339169&ei=6iuST8CzH5P46QGppbiTBA&usg=AFQjCNHeooVvHpXmIG4SzSUTOUFY8Ee90w

Do you realize that your link contradicts what you said? I got CP 6.8 and 6.5 mags, the followers are identical other than the color.

I did after I read the whole link. Either way, I provided good information. So enjoy.

Posted: 4/22/2012 2:11:34 PM EDT

[#29]

All the soap opera crap aside, I truly hope that there will be a cheap, RELIABLE, 5.45x39 and 6.8 mag source that evolves out of this confusing mess.

I have some old C Products 6.8 mags that work fine but crappy finish, and some old 5.45x39 mags that work ok when downloaded a bit. Ok for range practice but thats it. An improved version of the above would be great.

I hope the parties involved with accepting money for nothing delivered get in a position to right that wrong. That would be great too.

Posted: 4/22/2012 4:51:27 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I did not sell anything to Adel. He purchased the assets of C Products from the bank. I had nothing to do with the sale.

Aimless....I am doing what I enjoy most that is selling. I represent a number of companies including CPD. I have no ownership, no legal position with any company other than promoting sales for some companies and moving on with my life.

Hi Larry, So you come here and post, not really lying, but certainly not being honest. Welcome back, just like old times! You certainly are a talented salesperson as you still have a few fans here after all you've done.

I won't buy anything with the C products name on it in any way, because I don't want to be reminded of the hassle it was to get 6 mags that worked right.

Posted: 4/22/2012 4:58:16 PM EDT

[#31]

I never knew there was so much drama with cproducts. I have 3 40 rounders that work great and 10 30s also.

Posted: 4/23/2012 4:14:57 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How things have turned. I thought everyone was mad at Chad and Larry a few months ago because they left people high and dry, holding empty bags?

There were unfilled orders they took money for and did not fill. They also lied about what happened when they lost their company through that lawsuit. They made posts here acting as it there was some new owner they were working with.

C Products were a constant source of problems, mags that did not work, mags that wre paid for and not delivered.

Took the words right out of my mouth. People got burned with the old Cproducts mags (me included). Remember, a warranty is only as good as the company behind it. When they are gone, so is your warranty on your mags. Me, I stick with proven magazines and will NEVER invest my time and money in unproven mags. Why reinvent the wheel?

Posted: 4/23/2012 8:57:03 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

I never knew there was so much drama with cproducts.

<imaged removed, save it for the GD not here in the tech forums.............dpmmn>

ETA: I just noticed your username and thought OMG, maybe you were aware of it, but forgot...

Posted: 4/23/2012 10:40:33 AM EDT

[#34]

They made shit before, and I have no reason to think its any different now. Coupled with their complete lack of business ethics, i think I will pass.

Posted: 4/23/2012 12:46:09 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Posted by meisha11:
Aimless....I am doing what I enjoy most that is selling. I represent a number of companies including CPD. I have no ownership, no legal position with any company other than promoting sales for some companies and moving on with my life.

So, how do you explain the references in this thread that identify you as the President of CPD?

And the addresses are the same LOL.

After reading the BS this Larry guy is posting here I won't be buying any of the new mags.

Posted: 4/25/2012 6:21:24 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
I had the good fortune to notice the C-Products booth at the NRA Convention last Saturday. I scurried over and spent a considerable amount of time talking to the two gentleman there. After a bit the gentleman I wasn't talking to was introduced to me as the new owner of the company. He is a VERY nice man, and he was very kind and informative. I learned he bought the company's assets last August, spent considerable money retooling, then went into production two weeks ago.

He was offering a "show special" on magazines, so we talked about his new mags. They are stainless steel bodies and springs, with a REALLY nice anti-tilt follower (orange or black), and a super-duper coating (black) that is truly amazing. He said it's from Japan, expensive, and very, very durable. You cannot gouge it off with a knife. Not kidding. He had one that someone had tried and it was just a shiny spot, but no loss of finish.

He offered a "show special" at $10 each, so I bought two. I listened to his description, then bought two more. Now I'm kicking myself for not buying as many as I had funds to pay for.

These are the nicest mags I've ever handled. They are remniscent of the HK ones in appearance and feel. Mr. Adel Jamil told me he personally loaded a mag to capacity, then drove his car (4400#) over it four times, then stopped the front wheel on the mag (on pavement), then put it in a rifle and fired all 30 rounds. He then reloaded it, dropped it four times on the feed lips from as high as he could reach, and in four attempts had ONE round pop out. He then fired the remaining 29 rounds successfully.

He said they shipped thousands of mags to distributors last week, so stand by for their availability. Hopefully we will see them as site sponsors at some point.

For the non-believers:

http://i39.tinypic.com/11lle2g.jpg

Mr. Jamil asked me to "take them home and abuse them" and then report back my experience. He said all his mags are guaranteed for life, no questions asked, and he strongly desires to have feedback from customers. It was obvious his heart and soul is in this and he wants to build a top-quality product and stand behind them.

#####

hello,

on april 20, 2012
read your post and than went window shopping at AIM.
Looking for a sling and the SLAP.

AIM had the mags listed for $7.95 each.
so i ordered 6 and one SLAP.
received the mags today and they are really nice.
went back to AIM and the price has gone up.

thanks for the heads up.
e5i5o

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/corvettebear13/ar15/P1180722.jpg

Posted: 4/25/2012 6:42:47 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
.

#####

hello,

on april 20, 2012
read your post and than went window shopping at AIM.
Looking for a sling and the SLAP.

AIM had the mags listed for $7.95 each.
so i ordered 6 and one SLAP.
received the mags today and they are really nice.
went back to AIM and the price has gone up.

thanks for the heads up.
e5i5o

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/corvettebear13/ar15/P1180722.jpg

That's how mine were packaged, but that price had to have been a mistake.

Do the floor plates say "CProducts Defense" and not just "C Products, Inc."? Also, "Made in USA" under that.

If so, I'm glad you got a deal.

Edit to trim the quote.

Posted: 4/25/2012 7:47:41 PM EDT

[#38]

hi,

my mag floor plates have:

C PRODUCTS DEFENSE

MADE IN USA [smaller font]

so do i have the new company mags or old?

thanks
e5i5o

Posted: 4/25/2012 8:00:41 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
hi,

my mag floor plates have:

C PRODUCTS DEFENSE

MADE IN USA [smaller font]

so do i have the new company mags or old?

thanks
e5i5o

I would say you have the new ones, as that is exactly what mine have. You did good!!

Mr. Jamil said to break them in by pushing the follower down several times with a ruler. He did it quite vigorously to illustrate, and even pushed near the edge, and they are very good about not tilting. He also said to "abuse them." He really meant ABUSE, not just hard use. I can't bring myself to do that, but I'm glad he is willing to stand behind them "no matter what," because so many companies deny warranties for "abuse." This man encourages it.

Posted: 4/25/2012 8:28:11 PM EDT

[#40]

I have C Products mags that have some kind of burr on the feed lips of the magazine from the stamping/forming process, it was a marked resistance you could feel against the round as it was pushed out of magazine. And then there was the fact that the case mouth would then hit the front of the magazine(not likely a problem given the bullet starts to tip into the feed ramps of the barrel extension). However my impression of those C Product mags is that they were just not as smooth as I was accustomed to with things like Colt, Okay, Labelle, or even D&H.

Will it go away with a couple hundred rounds through each magazine? Probably, but they aren't in the same league as D&H magazines when I could and did buy the hell out of those for 8 dollars a pop. All my C Products mags are range mags at best.

Not impressed with the old C Products mags and hesitant as hell to try the new ones

Posted: 4/25/2012 8:44:12 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
hi,

my mag floor plates have:

C PRODUCTS DEFENSE

MADE IN USA [smaller font]

so do i have the new company mags or old?

thanks
e5i5o

I would say you have the new ones, as that is exactly what mine have. You did good!!

Mr. Jamil said to break them in by pushing the follower down several times with a ruler. He did it quite vigorously to illustrate, and even pushed near the edge, and they are very good about not tilting. He also said to "abuse them." He really meant ABUSE, not just hard use. I can't bring myself to do that, but I'm glad he is willing to stand behind them "no matter what," because so many companies deny warranties for "abuse." This man encourages it.

Yeah that was a mistake. They were $9.95 each or $8.95 each if you order more then 10. They used the page for the old mags and they must not have switched the price right away.

Posted: 4/25/2012 9:29:23 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
I have C Products mags that have some kind of burr on the feed lips of the magazine from the stamping/forming process, it was a marked resistance you could feel against the round as it was pushed out of magazine. And then there was the fact that the case mouth would then hit the front of the magazine(not likely a problem given the bullet starts to tip into the feed ramps of the barrel extension). However my impression of those C Product mags is that they were just not as smooth as I was accustomed to with things like Colt, Okay, Labelle, or even D&H.

Will it go away with a couple hundred rounds through each magazine? Probably, but they aren't in the same league as D&H magazines when I could and did buy the hell out of those for 8 dollars a pop. All my C Products mags are range mags at best.

Not impressed with the old C Products mags and hesitant as hell to try the new ones

They are a completely and totally different animal made on different machinery, from a different material, with a different process, and with a totally newly designed follower. From what I understand, standard followers and the Magpul followers will not work with these, and the followers from these will not work in other mags. Something to the way the legs under the follower are made. Supposedly you will find it nearly impossible to make them tilt, while they are smooth inside the mag at all depths.

The new 6.8 mags are going into the stamper today I think ( Thursday ) or maybe Friday. I hope I will be getting one or two as a sample, and will do a report on them when I do.

On any of the things that I may be wrong on regarding the followers, I apologize, since I'm going from memory, but the statements on the brand new machinery, materials etc, are 100 % correct. I don't think you can go wrong with the 5.56 mags.
I'm hoping that the 6.8 mags are as good. That will be a wonderful thing with the coal being 2.32. If they work, and are all 2.32, I will be shedding the PRI mags and stocking up.

Posted: 4/26/2012 5:29:32 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
.

They are a completely and totally different animal made on different machinery, from a different material, with a different process, and with a totally newly designed follower. From what I understand, standard followers and the Magpul followers will not work with these, and the followers from these will not work in other mags. Something to the way the legs under the follower are made. Supposedly you will find it nearly impossible to make them tilt, while they are smooth inside the mag at all depths.

The new 6.8 mags are going into the stamper today I think ( Thursday ) or maybe Friday. I hope I will be getting one or two as a sample, and will do a report on them when I do.

On any of the things that I may be wrong on regarding the followers, I apologize, since I'm going from memory, but the statements on the brand new machinery, materials etc, are 100 % correct. I don't think you can go wrong with the 5.56 mags.
I'm hoping that the 6.8 mags are as good. That will be a wonderful thing with the coal being 2.32. If they work, and are all 2.32, I will be shedding the PRI mags and stocking up.

Mention of the new tooling and machinery WAS told to me by Mr. Jamil. He said he bought the assets last August, but it took until just a few weeks ago to begin production due to the retooling and new stuff in the factory. This is NOT the old C-Products company!

Posted: 4/26/2012 7:38:24 AM EDT

[#44]

I ordered three mags from LCJ on the 16th and just got notice that they had shipped them. I am looking forward to getting them but I think it is taking them too long to get them out the door.

Bill

Posted: 4/26/2012 8:22:10 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
.

They are a completely and totally different animal made on different machinery, from a different material, with a different process, and with a totally newly designed follower. From what I understand, standard followers and the Magpul followers will not work with these, and the followers from these will not work in other mags. Something to the way the legs under the follower are made. Supposedly you will find it nearly impossible to make them tilt, while they are smooth inside the mag at all depths.

The new 6.8 mags are going into the stamper today I think ( Thursday ) or maybe Friday. I hope I will be getting one or two as a sample, and will do a report on them when I do.

On any of the things that I may be wrong on regarding the followers, I apologize, since I'm going from memory, but the statements on the brand new machinery, materials etc, are 100 % correct. I don't think you can go wrong with the 5.56 mags.
I'm hoping that the 6.8 mags are as good. That will be a wonderful thing with the coal being 2.32. If they work, and are all 2.32, I will be shedding the PRI mags and stocking up.

Mention of the new tooling and machinery WAS told to me by Mr. Jamil. He said he bought the assets last August, but it took until just a few weeks ago to begin production due to the retooling and new stuff in the factory. This is NOT the old C-Products company!

I wish they would have changed the name of the company. It is just far too confusing for some, and it will always have negative connotations associated with the demise of the old company. There will be people who will avoid them due to that, and on the 6.8 side, there will be people who avoid them due to some quality issues that were had, as well as the big group buy fiasco on 68forums.

I understand that sometimes, it is very aggravating to change a company name. My family bought out the Cooper Furniture Company chain of stores back when my Grandfather and his brothers got back from WWI. Marshal Jewelers was in there too, but they only bought the furniture stores. The company had a good reputation though. So they kept the name. All of my life I have been called Mr. Cooper, or Mr. Cooper's son even though that isn't my last name. Mr. Cooper died in the 1930s. My family said it was just too much aggravation to change it, and since it was a respected name, they kept it. Now that's way different than what we have going on here. The C Products name is not respected, and adding defense isn't going to help.

I know that under court order when the whole debacle of the takeover was going on, their hands were tied as to what they could or couldn't do, or say, and that left a lot of people under the impression that they were sleazy. I know Chad went out of his way to make everything right for me. Sometimes unfortunately, you can only do what the Judge in your case says you can do, and it isn't always the right thing, or the best thing. But, that is the reality of it all.

I would offer two pieces of advice to Mr. Jamil and Larry and Chad here, that I think will go a long way to make this new venture a success.

1. Change the name of the company to something else, and not to LJC, Jamil's mags, or any other combination of letters. Change it to something catchy, easy to remember, and easy to design a simple and recognizable logo.

2. Set up the tooling so that your logo can be stamped into the side, and floorplate of the magazines, so that they are easily identified, unique, and desirable.

3. If you have the list of orders that were never filled from the last company, ( don't know if they can legally have access to that ), go down that list and contact each person on it and fill the order that was paid for with your new mags. It might hurt a bit to begin with, but it will prove that you are a legitimate company that cares for it's customers, and one that will go to great lengths for customer service. This may be something you will have to do after you sell a batch or two to get finances in order to handle the loss. But, you will, by doing this, not only resolve the trust issue, which is, in my opinion, the most important thing in business, ( been in retail for my entire life, and a top salesman and manager at every level in local and national chains of all sorts, merchandise is merchandise ). You can have the best product in the world, but if the consumer doesn't trust you, you're out of business.

Do these three things, be innovative, and continue to produce an outstanding product, and you will be a leader in this business.

Posted: 4/26/2012 8:52:19 AM EDT

[#46]

Who owned Creative Products when they were in Murrels Inlet, SC in the early 2000's? They had some mag issues back then and I believe that ultimately led Brownells to drop them. Not long after, they moved to CT, or perhaps always had a place in CT, and then we all started hearing about new CProducts mags from CT in 2005 or so, and it didn't take all that long for that to fall apart. Now we have another iteration of the same company, with presumably the same principles involved according to business filings and newspaper articles/interviews.

The storyline kind of reminds me of Todd Bailey and all of his various HK clone companies that have come and gone, and those gypsy driveway sealcoating businesses you sometimes hear about on Dateline...

Posted: 4/26/2012 12:16:02 PM EDT

[#47]

I don't like how the guy said he has nothing to do with the new company, yet there are links in this thread that indicate otherwise. Something stinks here.

Posted: 4/26/2012 5:18:17 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If this doesn't stir up more confusion on who makes what different mags and when, I don't know what will.

Best of luck to them, but I would've changed the company name.

+1 as up until now I thought C Products was C Products and ASC had ALL the old tooling.

The WTF factor is certainly skyrocketing.

So how many Cproducts are there now? 3 or more?
LJC
Cproducts A
Cproducts B
ASC

Am I missing any? What a clusterfuck.

Posted: 4/27/2012 2:22:10 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Who owned Creative Products when they were in Murrels Inlet, SC in the early 2000's? They had some mag issues back then and I believe that ultimately led Brownells to drop them. Not long after, they moved to CT, or perhaps always had a place in CT, and then we all started hearing about new CProducts mags from CT in 2005 or so, and it didn't take all that long for that to fall apart. Now we have another iteration of the same company, with presumably the same principles involved according to business filings and newspaper articles/interviews.

Thought I read the same on the net over the years. I thought there was a partner in CT also? I'm kind of confused about the part of some coating company supposedly taking the assets in court and how now someone else bought them and is starting up in Fl.?

Posted: 4/27/2012 6:11:13 AM EDT

[#50]

I've got a half dozen crappy 5.45 mags that were supposed to WORK...and never did.What a waste of money and my time.

C Products reminds me of the Crooks who start a business...run it into the ground...then start ANOTHER business under a new name...etc....etc.

FN in MT

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The new C-Products Defense, Inc. (Page 2 of 3)

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