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Basic
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Posted: 4/27/2009 12:14:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2009 5:43:49 AM EST by lamarbrog]
I got my first TangoDown ARC magazine today... Just going to put my observations out there.



It arrived in the mail from Palmetto State Armory. Cost was about $25. Shipping took about two weeks (I think).

The first thing I noticed was the packaging... In a nice zip lock bag like PMag once came in, with an insert telling me how great the magazine is.

I opened the bag, and quickly noticed the smell of this thing... It stinks... It smells kind of like burning rubber. The base section seems to smell worse than the feed lip section. The smell is gradually getting weaker... I can't smell it if I am about 2 feet away now.

I pull the magazine out of the bag, immediately feeling how incredibly stiff it is. This mag is rigid. It hardly flexes at all, and doesn't flex if the follower is not depressed. It feels really sturdy.

It is very square... A PMag is kind of rounded at the front, this is boxy. It is different, I am not sure if I like it or not. I don't think it matters for function.

The follower looks cool. It tilts a little more than I would like, but it is much sturdier than a green USGI follower.

The feed lips are very thick... I like them a lot. As long as there are no bolt-over issues as a result... I think the feed lips are a real winner. (Edit: One observation I neglected to mention, is that the follower is backwards... The last cartridge ends on the left side... Why do they do this? MSAR and ARC both have this funky feature.)

Then, tragedy struck, my bubble was burst. It appears the magazine cracked during manufacturing. On the front, right connection point... the bottom section split where it meets the top section. It appears they went ahead and glued it anyway. Since there is glue in there, I don't think it will compromise it structurally... still, $25 for a magazine and you sort of expect it to not be cracked. This has also caused me to question the overall strength of the bottom section of the magazine. It feels more rigid, less flexible... but is it stronger? Maybe it is brittle? I don't know... and I'm not going to drive over it to find out because I am rather fond of this magazine and I only have one. I wouldn't send it back over this... because I don't feel like waiting two weeks for a new one. I will try not to pass judgement based on one little hairline crack on one magazine.

I put a little sharpie on the crack, and rubbed it in... now, it is blackish too, and is hardly visible even if you are looking for it... yay!

(Rant: Why am I so unlucky when it comes to magazines? The last two magazines I have gotten have had problems. Lancer L5 with too long of a follower. And a TangoDown ARC with a crack. ... I need to get a rabbit foot.) (By the way, I am happy with both of these magazines, despite the minor flaws... gives them character.)

Edit: It Works Now! Double Star lower, CMMG upper.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 12:28:48 PM EST
thank you for the review.

when you take it to the range and run some rounds through it, please update us again
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 12:41:06 PM EST
put some rounds through it and let us know how it works. Sucks that it was cracked out of the package
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 12:44:14 PM EST
I probably won't be going to the range for a while (at least until the weekend) but I did a test in the rifle and feeding was 100%.

It isn't a live fire test... but it didn't have any failing there... good sign.

See...It's NOT poo.
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 1:19:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 1:21:30 PM EST by ecgRN]
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
thank you for the review.

when you take it to the range and run some rounds through it, please update us again


Yeah..."smells bad" and is "square" is a little lacking.

I was nice of you to point out the difference between the odor of the base a compared to the feed lips. That may be a deal breaker for me. Is there no QC in the olfactory department. Jeeze.
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 2:05:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By ecgRN:
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
thank you for the review.

when you take it to the range and run some rounds through it, please update us again


Yeah..."smells bad" and is "square" is a little lacking.

I was nice of you to point out the difference between the odor of the base a compared to the feed lips. That may be a deal breaker for me. Is there no QC in the olfactory department. Jeeze.

What did you want me to tell you?

It is what I noticed... I said the same thing when I got my first PMag20... it smells noticeably different than a PMag30. Actually, the PMag20 smells a lot this ARC magazine. I don't care, the smell has dissipated fast and was never a big deal from the start. But, maybe that means something to someone... maybe someone here is a polymer engineer and a "burnt rubber" smell means something important to them, that it doesn't mean to you or me. I don't know... I am just telling you what I am seeing.

The difference in odor gives me a hint that maybe they are two different types of polymer... but again, I don't know and as long as it works I don't care. Maybe someone knows or cares... so I put it out there.


I told you about a manufacturing defect on this magazine... and what I thought about it.

What did you want me to tell you?

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 2:32:53 PM EST
He might have been ribbing you from the looks of the post

Thanks for the review. Don't forget to update us once you shoot it. Any pics.............of the smell , just kidding, but does the follower tilt like the Lancer?
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 2:40:32 PM EST
It isn't as "bad" as the Lancer... but it isn't as smooth as PMag, Cammenga, CProducts w/ orange/gray follower...

Kind of in the middle... I would call it above satisfactory.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 2:48:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
It isn't as "bad" as the Lancer... but it isn't as smooth as PMag, Cammenga, CProducts w/ orange/gray follower...

Kind of in the middle... I would call it above satisfactory.

Cool, as long as it works though. Haven't had a prob with the Lancers yet even though it dives pretty well, so I guess these should be problem free as well.
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 2:51:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By LCPL4ever:

Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
It isn't as "bad" as the Lancer... but it isn't as smooth as PMag, Cammenga, CProducts w/ orange/gray follower...

Kind of in the middle... I would call it above satisfactory.

Cool, as long as it works though. Haven't had a prob with the Lancers yet even though it dives pretty well, so I guess these should be problem free as well.

As you know, I have not done a live fire test...

But it is smooth enough that I don't think you will be seeing any problems related to this follower.
My manual test didn't reveal any nose dives, etc.

I wish a range was closer, and not such a hassle... I would like to give you guys a good, thorough report...

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 3:03:11 PM EST
Wow.... New development during manual testing.

Bolt over from hell.... Was cycling through a little more ammo... Then, I realize I lacked an ejection....

Checked the action... making sure I had not messed up and failed to lock the bolt into battery and clamp onto the cartridge. The chamber was clear, I released the bolt. Again, no ejection.

Did this about 5 more times, and removed the magazine. (I was trying to see if the working of the action might knock it into place... no such luck)



Let's just say I have one less usable cartridge than when I started.



I'll load it up and cycle a few more times... see if it happens again.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 3:09:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:21:20 PM EST by dpmmn]
I forgot to mention... there were about 4 cartridges left when I had my previous failure.

Loaded to about 10 this time... and tried gain.

Had about 3 or 4 function normally.

Then, double feed.

Cleared it.

Followed by, another bolt over.



It seems that it works 100%... except around cartridges #3 and #4.

It is just manual testing... So it isn't a nail in the coffin or anything.

Manual test #3.... bolt over on cartridge #4.
Manual test #4.... bolt over on cartridge #5.

Manual test #5.... bolt over on cartridge #4.


.... I normally attribute a failure during manual cycling as operator error....

It is just too uniform though... I am loading to 12-15 cartridges each time... and every failure is cartridges #4, and sometimes #5.



A live fire test will reveal all... but I'm not holding my breath at this point.

Manual test #6.... bolt over on cartridge #5.
Manual test #7.... Bolt over on cartridge #4.

I'm tired of this... I already know what is going to happen.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++­+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah... That's one positive thing.

I think I might call tomorrow to return this.



For $25.... I expect a magazine that is not cracked. In addition, even though it is manual cycling, bolt overs this consistent can not be attributed to mere operator error. I don't even really want to waste the time live fire testing this magazine... I have zero confidence in it... I have no failures even similar to this hand cycling other magazines.


So, maybe I got a bad egg... If I decide to trade this in, I will do a review of the next one and see if it is any better. As of now... I am not impressed.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 3:12:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:14:39 PM EST by dpmmn]
<Edited spammnig................dpmmn>


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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 3:14:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:15:04 PM EST by dpmmn]
<Edited spammnig................dpmmn>

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 3:17:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:15:20 PM EST by dpmmn]
<Edited spammnig................dpmmn>

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 3:18:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:15:42 PM EST by dpmmn]
<Edited spammnig................dpmmn>

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 3:21:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:16:02 PM EST by dpmmn]
<Edited spammnig................dpmmn>

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 3:24:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:19:43 PM EST by dpmmn]
<Edited spamming.......dpmmn>


See...It's NOT poo.
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:00:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:02:16 PM EST by ecgRN]
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
I already know what is going to happen.


Your post count will go up...


Originally Posted By LCPL4ever:
He might have been ribbing you from the looks of the post


Yeah I was. Sucks about the feeding issue. You only got one, correct? I wonder if this is just a "lemon mag"...

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:05:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:17:57 PM EST by dpmmn]
<Edited spammnig................dpmmn>

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:10:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:10:15 PM EST by lamarbrog]
To test myself... I got out a CProducts magazine, and a PMag...

I hand cycled both with zero malfunctions.

PS: My arm is getting tired.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:11:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
For $25.... I expect a magazine that is not cracked.


You should have returned it before futzing with it. Now it's "used". Good luck.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:14:48 PM EST
Ok then, forget the crack (although it is obviously a manufacturing defect). It still has terrible feeding issues. Kind of hard to know something doesn't work, unless you try using it.

I have done the distributor and the company a favor, by overlooking the defect. I did the same with Lancer, declined a replacement even though it was offered. I will hope that they return the favor... based on my understanding of the reputation of the companies involved, I believe they will take care of me in the end.


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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:18:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:20:11 PM EST by 87GN]
weird...you have the worst luck dude, I get my ARC mags from the reject pile (that is, the ones that are cracked) at TD, and they work great...

You loading manually or with a loader?
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:23:03 PM EST
Loading manually... But loading carefully, and I have unloaded completely and loaded again to make sure the stack wasn't screwed up.

I can go load it with stripper clips, and try again if you think that will change anything... I doubt it will, but who knows... I'll go do that.

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:23:15 PM EST
<font color=red><font size=3>IYAOYAS</font id=s3></font id=red>
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:26:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:28:44 PM EST by 87GN]
Originally Posted By lamarbrog:
Loading manually... But loading carefully, and I have unloaded completely and loaded again to make sure the stack wasn't screwed up.

I can go load it with stripper clips, and try again if you think that will change anything... I doubt it will, but who knows... I'll go do that.


Nah, that wouldn't make a difference.

If you call TD in the morning, I can pretty much guarantee that a new mag will be on its way tomorrow...

Only thing I could think of that might help is to cycle the follower with a stick, with anger... Don't tire yourself out though
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:27:51 PM EST
Loaded with stripper clips.

Functioned 100%.... until round #4, when there was another bolt over. Cleared it and continued.... round #2, bolt over.


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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:29:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:31:02 PM EST by lamarbrog]

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Please use your Edit option, there is no need for you to make a sperate post each time you pull on your charging handle

Spamming is a waste of bandwidth

Sorry... not sure why I did that...

No idea what I was thinking...

Edit: You could delete those posts if you want... I don't care and would encourage it. It probably uses the same bandwidth to have your edit in there, as my normal writing. It would certainly look like less of an edit-fest that way...

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:31:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2009 7:30:19 AM EST by 87GN]
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:34:52 PM EST


Looks like this...

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:36:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2009 7:30:29 AM EST by 87GN]
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:38:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2009 10:55:56 AM EST by lamarbrog]




Edit: Why yes, I did just realize it takes less than 3 minutes to take and upload a photograph... how did you guess?

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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:44:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2009 7:32:45 AM EST by 87GN]
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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:47:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/28/2009 10:55:16 AM EST by lamarbrog]
Opsec



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Link Posted: 4/27/2009 4:58:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2009 4:59:12 PM EST by 87GN]
Well, I think I know the issue you are encountering....It's unfortunate that you got stuck with a bad one.

Like I said, it shouldn't be too hard to get a new one sent out to you. Though I don't speak for TD.

Call TD...it's an hour earlier here anyway.
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Link Posted: 4/28/2009 8:33:02 PM EST
got mine from brownells and my LMT does not like it...

No, I don't think we can
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Link Posted: 4/28/2009 8:45:57 PM EST
i fudged around with an arc mag today.. it felt pretty solid, though $24 dollars is a bit steep
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Link Posted: 4/29/2009 11:18:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
i fudged around with an arc mag today.. it felt pretty solid, though $24 dollars is a bit steep

I really like the feel of them...

I just wish there was some way to take them apart, and that this one had been reliable.

$24 is a little much... I could get a Cammenga EZ mag for the same price. I could get a Lancer L5 for 5 bucks less. I could get two CProducts SS for that price. I hope they become more cost efficient, because I think they feel really solid.

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Link Posted: 4/29/2009 11:40:54 AM EST

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Link Posted: 4/29/2009 12:24:34 PM EST
Right, I had no intention of returning the magazine because of the tiny crack. I don't like it, I would prefer my expensive magazine not to be cracked when it is new from the factory, but, like you, I didn't see it threatening the structural integrity of the unit...


The feeding issues are a bit more of a problem though... We're working on that.

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Link Posted: 4/30/2009 12:57:58 PM EST
another feeding problem,,,ARC mags will not feed at all in my sabre. same mag shot fine in a 6920 and a smith 15a.––––so––- i gave that 25$ sucker away. lancers, pmags, NHMTG, and SS cprocucts shoot fine in the sabre. only problem ever, is with ARC's..––––––––––––-what do you make of this????[bolt out-runs the mag, catching the shell before it chambers, and jams up fairly tight, bending the case badly.] i tried 2 seperate ARC's, neither would feed over 2-3 shots.

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Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:02:22 PM EST
Can you describe your failure in more detail? I'm not sure I understand.

Kind of like what mine is doing, it sounds like. Except there is no "out running" going on... the cartridges just do not advance in the magazine.

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Link Posted: 5/2/2009 4:15:54 AM EST
i'm not real sure what is happening, i just thought the bolt was going back into battery, before the mag could feed a round. the end result is a bullet is trying to come out of the mag, but only gets part-way out before the bolt traps it,,tightly. usually i had to "bump" the but-stock on bench, while pulling on the charge handle. the case was usually bent up pretty good. the sabre has an ar-15 BCG, and a standard buffer, thought about trying an h-buffer with m-16 weight carrier and see if that would make any difference. as stated the mag ran fine in two other m-4's

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Link Posted: 5/2/2009 5:53:31 AM EST
Call Tango Down, get a new mag.
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Link Posted: 5/2/2009 5:57:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By 87GN:
Call Tango Down, get a new mag.

Both contact I've had with them has been to go shoot it...

I will do it... Even if it is just to show them that I don't fail at hand cycling.

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Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:38:26 AM EST
i bought 4, tried the first,,4-5 shots and jam...tried another,,,2-3 shots and jam. didn't try the others. i'm not fooling with calling tango,also not buying anymore.i'll save "more for everyone else", and hog lancers and pmags.

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Link Posted: 5/2/2009 7:32:42 AM EST
I would certainly call over $100 worth of magazines...

I'm calling over $25.

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Link Posted: 5/2/2009 1:41:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By leswill:
i bought 4, tried the first,,4-5 shots and jam...tried another,,,2-3 shots and jam. didn't try the others. i'm not fooling with calling tango,also not buying anymore.i'll save "more for everyone else", and hog lancers and pmags.


So, bash the company, and don't give them a chance to fix it...
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Link Posted: 5/2/2009 1:47:35 PM EST
My Arc mags (only two) work perfect in 3 different rifles and have no odor at all. I wish they were cheaper I would get 20 of them.

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Link Posted: 5/2/2009 6:29:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/2/2009 6:33:43 PM EST by lamarbrog]
I went and shot the thing finally.

I tested it 4 times... zero failures.

I got home and hand cycled it some more... twice I had no failures.


Maybe it was a burr, I don't know... Before there was 100% fail, now it is 100% success.



I can't say I would trust my life to it yet... but I am definitely happier. I never would have guessed they would have worked after the difficulties I initially had... I was proven wrong.

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