Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » Ammunition
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Page / 2
Next Page Arrow Left
Link Posted: 6/11/2017 3:59:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


knowing velocity alone tells you nothing about a round's effectiveness at different ranges.  you also have to know the round's expansion/fragmentation threshold

Luckily for M193, M855 and Mk262, ARFCOM members have already done the work years ago:
View Quote
Yes, of course...I'm not done with my thread yet.
Link Posted: 6/11/2017 9:23:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Did some testing with the Fusion 62g MSR and 64g Gold Dots today.

Average (4 shot) velocity out of a CL 14.5" barrel, 83* at sea level.

MSR: 2,766fps

GD: 2,673fps

Shot a few water jugs (I know..TIFWIW) and the GD's average size was .54" and the MSR was .49".

Also chronoed some 77g IMI Razorcore at an average of 2613fps.
Link Posted: 6/11/2017 9:30:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


knowing velocity alone tells you nothing about a round's effectiveness at different ranges.  you also have to know the round's expansion/fragmentation threshold

Luckily for M193, M855 and Mk262, ARFCOM members have already done the work years ago:
View Quote
Well, we have The Chopping Block's test of the Fusion 62gr, so we know that the Fusion expands down to 1700fps. Since ATK owns Federal and Speer, and the Fusion and Gold Dot are both Bonded JSP's made by the same parent company, it's reasonable to assume that the Gold Dot also expands down to 1700fps. Ideally we will confirm this later with Gel Testing, but it's a working answer.

With a 0.27 G1 BC the results are:
@ 3,000fps 5.56 velocity = 1700fps @ 425yd
@ 2,700fps .223 Velocity = 1724fps @ 325yd
@ 2,360fps 11.5" velocity = 1700fps @ 215yd

But that doesn't tell all of the story. At 2,700fps from an 16" barrel, the 64gr is hitting at point blank with the power 16" 5.56 Gold Dot hits at 100 yards. And the 11.5" at the muzzle is the equivalent of the 5.56 16" at 200 yards.
Link Posted: 6/11/2017 9:38:56 PM EDT
[#4]
With the MSR I chronoed today (2,766fps) and a .31 BC, Im seeing 1724fps @ 400yrds.
Link Posted: 6/12/2017 3:26:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
With the MSR I chronoed today (2,766fps) and a .31 BC, Im seeing 1724fps @ 400yrds.
View Quote
The 64gr Gold Dot's final insult - not only is it a good bit slower then the Fusion, but it has a significantly worse BC (0.27) despite being heavier then the Fusion and being made by the same parent company.
Link Posted: 6/13/2017 12:43:44 AM EDT
[#6]
So many to choose from.  I have a 10.5 LMT SBR that I've shot MK262 Mod 1, Magtech 77 grain OTM, Hornady TAP T2, and TAP SBR. Hornady SBR has been the least accurate.

MK262/Magtech 77 grain OTM have been the most accurate.  I'm thinking of just stocking up on those and calling it a day.

Not sure I wanna bother trying out gold dots, fusion or Hornady black.
Link Posted: 6/13/2017 1:25:02 AM EDT
[#7]
If I remember correctly it seemed like Molon's testing of the 64gr Gold Dots, and Gold Dots in general, resulted in somewhat better accuracy than many of the other bonded/barrier blind options out there.
Perhaps Speer loaded these Gold Dot LE loads for better accuracy, rather than maximum velocity.  Maybe Gold Dots don't react well, accuracy wise, when pushed hard.
Just some random thoughts...correct me if I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 6/13/2017 3:52:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If I remember correctly it seemed like Molon's testing of the 64gr Gold Dots, and Gold Dots in general, resulted in somewhat better accuracy than many of the other bonded/barrier blind options out there.
Perhaps Speer loaded these Gold Dot LE loads for better accuracy, rather than maximum velocity.  Maybe Gold Dots don't react well, accuracy wise, when pushed hard.
Just some random thoughts...correct me if I'm wrong.
View Quote
The best explanation I've heard was that they released a 5.56 version originally, but some LEO departments had cheap ass AR's that couldn't handle 5.56. So now we have a slow round that any rifle of any quality could handle. Basically we are a victim of the lowest common denominator.
Link Posted: 6/13/2017 8:39:55 PM EDT
[#9]
I just picked up some Gold Dots from PSA with the deal they got going. I'll most likely use them in a home defense situation at less than 50 feet. They should be fine at that distance. Plus, if they're a little more accurate, that may keep me from shooting some of my wife's good dishes in the china cabinet. Gotta keep momma happy
Link Posted: 6/13/2017 9:11:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
MK262/Magtech 77 grain OTM have been the most accurate.  I'm thinking of just stocking up on those and calling it a day.

Not sure I wanna bother trying out gold dots, fusion or Hornady black.
View Quote
I've tried Gold Dot, Fusion, Fusion MSR, IMI Razor Core, Black Hills 77gr OTM, Black Hills 77gr TMK, and CBC/Magtech 77gr OTM...
Similarly to your own findings, the BH 77gr OTM and Magtech 77gr OTM have the best accuracy in my SR15 Mod1 LW CHF CL 16", and SR15 LPR Krieger SS 18"

I do think for most people, in the HD scenario, distance and accuracy of the round won't be much of a factor, and most should find the most effective round.

However, I've been stocking up on Magtech 77gr OTM as the bullet had been proven to perform well enough for close to medium(200 yards-300 yards) ranges.
Link Posted: 6/15/2017 1:19:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well, we have The Chopping Block's test of the Fusion 62gr, so we know that the Fusion expands down to 1700fps. Since ATK owns Federal and Speer, and the Fusion and Gold Dot are both Bonded JSP's made by the same parent company, it's reasonable to assume that the Gold Dot also expands down to 1700fps.
View Quote
No, it is not reasonable to assume that for those reasons. Every round, in every caliber, and every weight is an animal unto itself. Such generalizations should not and cannot be made. For example a 75 grain BTHP Hornady and a 75 grain BTHP Hornady TAP T2 are nothing alike. Different BC, different twist to stabilise, different powder, different neck length in gel, etc.
Link Posted: 6/15/2017 2:27:43 PM EDT
[#12]
This video shows the GD opening up at 1930fps.

Speer Gold dot .223 64g SP from 7.5 in. barrel


It's not 1700fps, and a bit of a long neck, but not bad expansion.
Link Posted: 6/16/2017 2:14:40 AM EDT
[#13]
From reading thru this, I kinda get the feeling the 77 OTM is the better choice for 11.5 barrels. Anyone know what the approximate fragmentation distance is with an 11.5 with either Magtech or IMI?

EDIT to add.....
I read IMI 69 OTM is the better choice out to 200 yards, and that is where the 77 OTM takes over. If this is true, I presume out of a 11.5 at 200 yards, neither one will fragment.
So is the 69 gr a good choice?
Link Posted: 6/16/2017 9:37:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From reading thru this, I kinda get the feeling the 77 OTM is the better choice for 11.5 barrels. Anyone know what the approximate fragmentation distance is with an 11.5 with either Magtech or IMI?

EDIT to add.....
I read IMI 69 OTM is the better choice out to 200 yards, and that is where the 77 OTM takes over. If this is true, I presume out of a 11.5 at 200 yards, neither one will fragment.
So is the 69 gr a good choice?
View Quote
Well, I've asked many many times on the forum here about the actual fragmentation threshold of the SMK 77gr OTM, and no one seems to know.
From the ammo oracle, the Nosler 77gr OTM(very early Mk262) has a frag threshold of 2100fps, and from the only image I found about the SMK, it says 2300fps, which is about 175 yards from a 16" barrel with 2650fps muzzle velocity.

Now, from what I gathered about the SMK 77gr OTM effectiveness...

From what I learned in the Clear Ballistic Gel vs. Real Ballistic Gel video, Clear Ballistic Gel will penetrate further, about 20% further, than the Real Ballistic Gel. So if you take the video below, and multiple all the measurement by 0.80, you get results that could be found as if it was tested in a Real Ballistic Gel, which is the industry standard, and what was used in labs.

Here is a video showing BH SMK 77gr OTM, at 2050fps, in Clear Ballistic Gel
IMO it preformed pretty good. The bullet created tissue damage/cavity from 2.4"-5.6", and another cavity at 8"-10.4". (after the measurement conversion from Clear Gel to Real Ballistic Gel)
At 2050fps, it is about 275yards from a 16" barrel, doing 2650 fps at muzzle, and I think the bullet will perform similar at 300 yards.

So, IMHO, the SMK 77gr OTM is still a good round if the intention is for both close and medium range shooting.
From 0 to 175 yards, it will fragment. From 175-300 yards, the round will yaw and create tissue damage from 2.4"-10.4"

Below image is the only 'information' I can find about the SMK 77gr OTM fragmentation threshold:
Please keep in mind IMO the muzzle velocity is wrong, as almost everyone who tested BH 77gr OTM shows 2600-2650fps muzzle velocity from a 16" barrel.


Page / 2
Next Page Arrow Left
Page AR-15 » Ammunition
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top