77gr SMK ---- what am I missing? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 77gr SMK ---- what am I missing? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 4/25/2017 4:51:15 PM EDT

[#1]

I think the better choice for terminal ballistics will be either monolithic hollow points bullets like the Barnes TXS 62 and 70, or bonded soft point bullets like Speer's Gold Dot 64 or 75.

I've taken quite a few deer with Barnes TSX bullets in many different calibers and find their terminal performance on deer sized game animals to be exceptional. They are very accurate, almost match grade. They open rapidly to about 2x caliber size, but hold together, shedding almost no weight. They crash through bone. I deliberately shoot for the shoulder, if possible, on broad side shots. They break the shoulder, expand reliably, really tear up the lungs and heart, continue on and have always left an exit wound. Most of the time the deer simply drop dead right there at ethical 5.56 distances (under 150 yards). If the shoulder is broken, even if they try to run, as with some heart shots, they really can't and a second shot is easy and final.

Just a hunter's perspective.

Posted: 4/29/2017 8:50:45 AM EDT

[#2]

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Idk how to quote you Rictus, but if it wasn't a huge violation of HIPPA, i would definitely pull her CT abdomen w/ contrast for you to see! I was a non-believer myself until i saw it. It went through the left pelvis, bounced off the right pelvis up into the liver. I do also believe it's a rare circumstance, which is why i even brought it up. Alas, it can happen. This took place in a living room due to a negligent discharge from an estimated (by the PD) 10m. Very interesting case.

edit: PT was over 140kg

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10m in the living room?

Like Rictus says. Outliers exist.

Posted: 4/29/2017 7:05:44 PM EDT

[#3]

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Sometimes I just don't understand. I know we tend to get caught up in "testing" and I certainly want the most devastating round I can get but I think people tend to get carried away.

For instance, most people can get incapacitated from a variety things, let alone a wad of lead, traveling at a very high rate of speed, going 7 inches into your body.

Again, I understand the end goal and maybe I just need to loosen up because people say things and generalize.

But I get a lot of this with the 380 cartridge too. A well placed shot with any billet can kill you and definitely incapacitate you.

Poor shit placement is guaranteed to incapacitate someone too. It's just a matter of time. Eventually the wound will need to be looked at. Obviously that's not optimal to stop an attack but you guys get what I'm saying. Maybe. I'm rambling lol.

I don't want something going into me 7 inches. Or 5. Or 2. Lol. Or 1.

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Damned right, but when my time comes, I hope I'm at home and not at work, or that I was forward thinking and wore my Depends that day, or something!

Posted: 4/29/2017 8:17:26 PM EDT

[#4]

@03RN i can only tell you what i know from the patient care perspective. I was not present for the accident. I do not know ammo was used though i do know it was a police officers weapon. lol

Posted: 4/29/2017 8:49:47 PM EDT

[#5]

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@03RN i can only tell you what i know from the patient care perspective. I was not present for the accident. I do not know ammo was used though i do know it was a police officers weapon. lol

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I wasn't calling you out or anything. A 10m shot in a living room just seems long. But my house is tiny so my perspective may be off

Bullets do weird things.

Did the PT tell you?

Posted: 4/29/2017 9:26:25 PM EDT

[#6]

Time to reread the Ammo Oracle. In a nutshell.... gel is used because it can be produced repeatedly and consistently ... and will mimic flesh, not lung tissue or less dense material...

So ballistic gel is a test media, not a two footed recipient. So believe the real world results.... and not the ballistic gel results

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/test_geltesta.html

Posted: 4/30/2017 10:40:18 AM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:

I wasn't calling you out or anything. A 10m shot in a living room just seems long. But my house is tiny so my perspective may be off

Bullets do weird things.

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Haven't you heard??? Everything's bigger in Texas (even living rooms).

Posted: 4/30/2017 11:06:38 AM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
Haven't you heard??? Everything's bigger in Texas (even living rooms).

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I wasn't calling you out or anything. A 10m shot in a living room just seems long. But my house is tiny so my perspective may be off

Bullets do weird things.

Haven't you heard??? Everything's bigger in Texas (even living rooms).

Mine might be 10M from one corner to the other (front door area), but alas I'm not in as large of a place as many

Posted: 5/2/2017 6:46:51 PM EDT

[#9]

All I know is said person was "cleaning" his duty rifle, wife was in the living room. Perhaps it penetrated a barrier before the woman. I really do not know. All I know is the results of the incident. Had a gnarly bilateral .308 leg wound. Blew out 4" of femur. Replaced the entire blood volume in ER before moving to the OR. Exit wound the size of a softball. The bullet lodged in the other knee joint. Mad props to the medics. Time from incident to ER was approximated at 7 minutes. Dude was one lucky SOB.

Posted: 5/4/2017 4:02:00 AM EDT

[#10]

The SMK does not do 7" through 4 layer denim. It does more than that through a IIIA vest. It is quite obvious that is a shot through laminated glass... look at the shape of the wound channel. Its not indicative of denim Federal really needs to fix that. Federal and Speer do ballistics testing demos for LE every year. That's not what 77 grain SMK does in 4 layer denim unless the round exited the side of the block. I will see if they can do rifle demos this year with the HST 2.0 demo next month and 77 grain SMK specifically. I cant take pictures unfortunately.

Posted: 5/4/2017 3:46:38 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
All I know is said person was "cleaning" his duty rifle, wife was in the living room. Perhaps it penetrated a barrier before the woman. I really do not know. All I know is the results of the incident. Had a gnarly bilateral .308 leg wound. Blew out 4" of femur. Replaced the entire blood volume in ER before moving to the OR. Exit wound the size of a softball. The bullet lodged in the other knee joint. Mad props to the medics. Time from incident to ER was approximated at 7 minutes. Dude was one lucky SOB.

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and that was what bullet...a 77gr OTM? but you said 308 wound so i'm confused but that happens easily haha.

either way...yikes.

Posted: 5/7/2017 7:41:26 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
The SMK does not do 7" through 4 layer denim. It does more than that through a IIIA vest. It is quite obvious that is a shot through laminated glass... look at the shape of the wound channel. Its not indicative of denim Federal really needs to fix that. Federal and Speer do ballistics testing demos for LE every year. That's not what 77 grain SMK does in 4 layer denim unless the round exited the side of the block. I will see if they can do rifle demos this year with the HST 2.0 demo next month and 77 grain SMK specifically. I cant take pictures unfortunately.

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That would be awesome. Just post some #'s for us.
And HST 2.0 --- is that real? Sounds great if so!

Posted: 5/8/2017 1:30:12 AM EDT

[#13]

Yes I just went off topic about a separate case we had. ADHD was in full effect, my apologies. Totally different person, and time. haha

Posted: 5/8/2017 8:47:13 AM EDT

[#14]

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That would be awesome. Just post some #'s for us.
And HST 2.0 --- is that real? Sounds great if so!

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Yeah, just improved core jacket joining, didn't go as far as to call it "bonded" but we will see.

Posted: 5/8/2017 10:16:30 AM EDT

[#15]

So I've got 77gr SMK ammo because I thought it would kill baddies the best within 300m from a 16"-18" barrel. Now do I get rid of it in favor of M193 or in favor of M855?

Posted: 5/8/2017 10:19:58 AM EDT

[#16]

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So I've got 77gr SMK ammo because I thought it would kill baddies the best within 300m from a 16"-18" barrel. Now do I get rid of it in favor of M193 or in favor of M855?

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Well you can send it to me for disposal, or the better idea is to use it as you intended.

Posted: 5/8/2017 11:42:35 AM EDT

[#17]

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So I've got 77gr SMK ammo because I thought it would kill baddies the best within 300m from a 16"-18" barrel. Now do I get rid of it in favor of M193 or in favor of M855?

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No, it's great ammo.

Posted: 5/8/2017 11:44:04 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
So I've got 77gr SMK ammo because I thought it would kill baddies the best within 300m from a 16"-18" barrel. Now do I get rid of it in favor of M193 or in favor of M855?

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WHAT? do be so dramatic. 77gr OTM is better than those any day, IMO.

Posted: 5/8/2017 1:45:09 PM EDT

[#19]

77 SMK is my choice for SD. We can always find a gel test to back our claims, but i have seen a lot of tests with 77 SMK and almost all look better than the teat you show.

I like all the energy being dispersed throughout the bad guy. Bullets that penetrate through, carry some energy with rhem

Posted: 5/16/2017 5:58:26 PM EDT

[#20]

So whats the most effective distances for 77gr OTM out of an 11.5" or 14.5" barrel?

I bought some for SD and want to make sure that it performs well at closer distances, ie home defense.

Just listened to one of the most recent Primary & Secondary podcasts, and opinions were mixed about the 77gr OTM, with Roland saying he'd rather have SOST (62gr OTM?) or TAP (didn't specify Weight).

Posted: 5/16/2017 6:06:25 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

So whats the most effective distances for 77gr OTM out of an 11.5" or 14.5" barrel?

I bought some for SD and want to make sure that it performs well at closer distances, ie home defense.

Just listened to one of the most recent Primary & Secondary podcasts, and opinions were mixed about the 77gr OTM, with Roland saying he'd rather have SOST (62gr OTM?) or TAP (didn't specify Weight).

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SOST sucks. 3 Moa accuracy - good luck past 100 yards.

Posted: 5/16/2017 6:31:19 PM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:

SOST sucks. 3 Moa accuracy - good luck past 100 yards.

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M855A1 was another round he said he preferred over 77gr OTM.

Both of those choices seemed odd to me, but he has better knowledge of bullet performance than I do.

Posted: 5/16/2017 6:38:07 PM EDT

[#23]

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M855A1 was another round he said he preferred over 77gr OTM.

Both of those choices seemed odd to me, but he has better knowledge of bullet performance than I do.

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Confidence is key, although not necessarily to ballistic performance

I'd take 77gr OTM over those, except maybe 5.56 TAP (75gr OTM)

Posted: 5/16/2017 7:35:57 PM EDT

[#24]

Does anybody know the fragmentation threshold of the MK262/77gr OTM ?
The only one I've found says 2300fps, but I see some people say 1900fps...

Below is the 'source' I've found:

Posted: 5/22/2017 10:18:16 AM EDT

[#25]

I think what we are all missing is the caliber not the bullet.You just can't make it do everything you want.There just not enough of everything to make it fool proof.It is not a 30/06 and you can't make a m4 in 30/06 that will act like one in 5.56.

Posted: 5/22/2017 4:11:05 PM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:

SOST sucks. 3 Moa accuracy - good luck past 100 yards.

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mk 318 sost?

not in my most of my barrels. in fact i have one that prints 1.5" with it but i do have another barrel that is closer to 3 so its a weird bullet.

Posted: 5/22/2017 4:12:38 PM EDT

[#27]

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Quoted:

M855A1 was another round he said he preferred over 77gr OTM.

Both of those choices seemed odd to me, but he has better knowledge of bullet performance than I do.

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is there any testing on how 855a1 performs in gel at cqb distances? i was under the impression it was a perpetrator round and might not be so great on soft tissue.

oh nevermind...just watched the chopping block gel test from an SBR at 2800 fps. nasty little bullet!

now we just need molon to check the accuracy from some chromelined barrels.

Posted: 5/24/2017 2:36:00 PM EDT

[#28]

KDSSF,

That looks right based on my use of it on coyotes. Hard hit out to 150 yds or so but effect drops off rapidly past 200.

Posted: 5/29/2017 9:38:43 PM EDT

[#29]

One more believer. I've shot a little over a half dozen small Southern deer with CBC Mk262, and every one has dropped in its tracks. That's better results than most hunters around here have with .30-06's and such.

Posted: 5/31/2017 1:47:08 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

SOST sucks. 3 Moa accuracy - good luck past 100 yards.

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Shoot's 1.5-2 MOA from my barrels, no problem smoking coyotes past 100 yards. I quit using 77gr loads out where I am. Other loads like the TSX and Fusion/GD have provided much better consistent results on various game.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 77gr SMK ---- what am I missing? (Page 2 of 2)

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