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Posted: 12/26/2016 2:10:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Why not buy a couple different gr. And see what the new rifle likes before you buy 200 rounds?
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Posted: 12/26/2016 2:17:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not buy a couple different gr. And see what the new rifle likes before you buy 200 rounds? I am going to, I am asking for actual experience with these rounds on flesh. I can test them on other media but do not hunt. I did not make that clear, sorry. |
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Posted: 12/26/2016 2:25:51 PM EDT
[#3]
If it's just for defense, I'd have a 14.5 pinned and welded to 16 LR308 carbine and get some Federal Fusion 150 or Speer Gold Dots 150.
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Posted: 12/26/2016 2:41:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it's just for defense, I'd have a 14.5 pinned and welded to 16 LR308 carbine and get some Federal Fusion 150 or Speer Gold Dots 150. Not if you wanted to be traveling North America including Canada without legal problems you wouldn't> This isn't about gun choices, I have lots of guns including AR's, it is an ammunition question. I suspect Gold Dots would suck prolific nuts as a moose defense round. |
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Posted: 12/26/2016 3:00:33 PM EDT
[#5]
The sst is definitely a good round for deer as long as you keep velocity under 2600. Either choice will be fine for all around rifle bullets. I like Sierra Game Kings myself, but have run the hornady super with sst from a 30-06, ruined meat if I hit bone but was not bad for a clean double lung.
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Posted: 12/26/2016 3:51:21 PM EDT
[#6]
If worry about adequate penetration with the larger game animals up north. If I had to pick one do-all bullet I'd be looking at something monometal copper or bonded. Barnes TSX would likely do pretty well.
Hornady's new ELDX is loaded into their precision hunter line, and may frag a little up close but has quite a bit of range to it. |
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Posted: 12/26/2016 3:57:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If worry about adequate penetration with the larger game animals up north. If I had to pick one do-all bullet I'd be looking at something monometal copper or bonded. Barnes TSX would likely do pretty well. Hornady's new ELDX is loaded into their precision hunter line, and may frag a little up close but has quite a bit of range to it. The GMX is monolithic copper alloy, and is currently in the lead for that reason. I would not expect to ever need this outside of 200yds and realistically probably never over 50 yds. ETA: Hornady makes 180gr and also a 220gr GMX round nose in their International line, which according to their website is not available in the USA |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 4:45:11 AM EDT
[#8]
180gr. Nosler Partition or Swift A-Frame.
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Posted: 12/27/2016 9:00:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Why not ask on a cad, AK, or traditional hunting forum???
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Posted: 12/27/2016 5:51:12 PM EDT
[#10]
I would go, if my rifle liked it, with a 165 grain gameking.
Fusions, interlocks, etc are all fine. I just found that gamekings hit the same poi as 168grain fgmm. |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 6:25:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Nothing wrong with your choice. Can't find any reason to suggest another choice. I think any good bonded or mono metal projectile will be just fine. Even an SST in heavier grain would probley work fine.
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Posted: 12/27/2016 9:11:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
180gr. Nosler Partition or Swift A-Frame. Link to factory loading? |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 9:16:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not ask on a cad, AK, or traditional hunting forum??? Because I am not and have not been a member of any of those forums for 13 years, and have come to respect the opinion and depth of knowledge that is ARFCOM. I am asking a question pertinent to North America. |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 9:51:48 PM EDT
[#14]
If you need to defend yourself against a moose attack, you want something to destroy bone. Expansion won't mean shit without the ability to penetrate bone. I've vaporized the heart of an excited moose and he kept on trucking for quite some time. CNS hits or front shoulder destruction are the only things that will stop one in their tracks. That might mean a bullet that won't be particularly good for your other uses.
Realistically, unless you go around intentionally pissing them off, the chance of a moose attack is pretty slim. |
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Posted: 12/27/2016 10:32:22 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 12/28/2016 8:22:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you need to defend yourself against a moose attack, you want something to destroy bone. Expansion won't mean shit without the ability to penetrate bone. I've vaporized the heart of an excited moose and he kept on trucking for quite some time. CNS hits or front shoulder destruction are the only things that will stop one in their tracks. That might mean a bullet that won't be particularly good for your other uses. Realistically, unless you go around intentionally pissing them off, the chance of a moose attack is pretty slim. That role will be filled with a Ruger Alaskan .375 Ruger when we are in bear/moose country. Our place in AK is thick with alders and moose/bear scat all about. The .308 will never be my first choice for mega-fauna but that is why I am leaning toward a solid for an all around cartridge. |
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Posted: 12/28/2016 8:22:59 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 12/28/2016 9:44:47 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I am not and have not been a member of any of those forums for 13 years, and have come to respect the opinion and depth of knowledge that is ARFCOM. I am asking a question pertinent to North America. that's like asking your grandfather about the ignition system on your new corvette because you respect his opinion and depth of knowledge from working on cars his whole life that have ZERO to do with modern ignition systems simple, you join one of those forums in fraction of the time it took you to refute the first couple of suggestions here. you want a round for the bush of NA, you go to hunting forum. I can provide you with several having done AK 3 years. It's quite easy and I can assure you, the depth of knowledge you will get there FAR surpasses what you'll get here |
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Posted: 12/28/2016 9:45:40 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you need to defend yourself against a moose attack, you want something to destroy bone. Expansion won't mean shit without the ability to penetrate bone. I've vaporized the heart of an excited moose and he kept on trucking for quite some time. CNS hits or front shoulder destruction are the only things that will stop one in their tracks. That might mean a bullet that won't be particularly good for your other uses. Realistically, unless you go around intentionally pissing them off, the chance of a moose attack is pretty slim. they can be downright scary when that snorting/breathing starts |
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Posted: 12/28/2016 10:08:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that's like asking your grandfather about the ignition system on your new corvette because you respect his opinion and depth of knowledge from working on cars his whole life that have ZERO to do with modern ignition systems simple, you join one of those forums in fraction of the time it took you to refute the first couple of suggestions here. you want a round for the bush of NA, you go to hunting forum. I can provide you with several having done AK 3 years. It's quite easy and I can assure you, the depth of knowledge you will get there FAR surpasses what you'll get here I'm simply not interested in arguing with you, I asked a question of the people I would like to hear from, and regrettably that includes some people like you. So if you have some pertinent information specific to the loads I asked about tell me about it. If all you are here for is to question why I asked a question, go find something else to do. Did I accidentally post this in GD? |
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Posted: 12/28/2016 10:45:26 AM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 12/28/2016 4:09:25 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 12/28/2016 5:54:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm simply not interested in arguing with you, I asked a question of the people I would like to hear from, and regrettably that includes some people like you. So if you have some pertinent information specific to the loads I asked about tell me about it. If all you are here for is to question why I asked a question, go find something else to do. Did I accidentally post this in GD? whoa, slow down there sport. what I said is PERFECTLY valid and strongly encouraged and especially since I've hunted in AK and went through ammo analysis. This is a great forum but you are in the wrong place for your questions your trip however, enjoy |
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Posted: 12/28/2016 6:58:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Mk. 319, if you can find any. Good expansion on front half for wounding, solid copper back half penetrates better than M80 ball. All-purpose, and effective on pretty much everything. 130gr, works extremely well out of any barrel from 16" up. Reasonable accurate.
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Posted: 12/28/2016 8:19:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mk. 319, if you can find any. Good expansion on front half for wounding, solid copper back half penetrates better than M80 ball. All-purpose, and effective on pretty much everything. 130gr, works extremely well out of any barrel from 16" up. Reasonable accurate. Sounds a little light, but I will add it to the list. |
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Posted: 12/28/2016 10:43:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds a little light, but I will add it to the list. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Mk. 319, if you can find any. Good expansion on front half for wounding, solid copper back half penetrates better than M80 ball. All-purpose, and effective on pretty much everything. 130gr, works extremely well out of any barrel from 16" up. Reasonable accurate. Sounds a little light, but I will add it to the list. I've always liked using heavier bullets when hunting but there's some modern stuff like this and Barnes that work really well. I'd love to see some direct comparisons |
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Posted: 12/28/2016 11:14:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would go, if my rifle liked it, with a 165 grain gameking. Fusions, interlocks, etc are all fine. I just found that gamekings hit the same poi as 168grain fgmm. 2nd the 165 Gamekings. The federal premium loading of this bullet consistently shoots sub MOA in my 700P and about 1.1 MOA in my buddy's LTR. |
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Posted: 12/29/2016 6:12:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Gameking orFusion for a 1 load fifle. end thread
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Posted: 12/29/2016 11:44:46 AM EDT
[#29]
I've often contemplated this same question, as an outdoorsman and hunter. My go-to do-it-all North America rifle is a Tikka T3 stainless .30-06, and my do-it-all NA round is the 180 grain Partition. However, that's with a bit more oomph in the cartridge and a longer barrel than you're contemplating.
For the rifle you are considering, I'd say top out your bullet weight at 165 grains. With a short barrel, that's your optimal performance weight. I've always been dubious about the 180 grain rounds out of the .308 anyway (velocity does matter), and with that short Ruger barrel you just are losing enough velocity that I think the heavyweights need to be ruled out. So I'd say go with a 150 grain Barnes TTSX (which will penetrate like a 180+ grain cup and core) or a 165 grain Partition or Swift A-Frame. The GMX in middle-weight/165 is also a good choice. While there are some fine cup and core type bullets out there (like the Sierra GameKing/SST/Ballistic Tips), I think something a bit more sturdy will give you better performance if the excrement hits the fan. And while I like the Fusion round against deer and similar sized targets (zombies, gangsters, serial killers), it's just too soft for heavy game. If you should have a defensive encounter with a grizz or moose, a Partition/mono-type round will work much more consistently than a cup n' core. And they'd certainly do fine against two-legged varmints, too. Have fun on your adventures! |
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Posted: 12/29/2016 2:18:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've often contemplated this same question, as an outdoorsman and hunter. My go-to do-it-all North America rifle is a Tikka T3 stainless .30-06, and my do-it-all NA round is the 180 grain Partition. However, that's with a bit more oomph in the cartridge and a longer barrel than you're contemplating. For the rifle you are considering, I'd say top out your bullet weight at 165 grains. With a short barrel, that's your optimal performance weight. I've always been dubious about the 180 grain rounds out of the .308 anyway (velocity does matter), and with that short Ruger barrel you just are losing enough velocity that I think the heavyweights need to be ruled out. So I'd say go with a 150 grain Barnes TTSX (which will penetrate like a 180+ grain cup and core) or a 165 grain Partition or Swift A-Frame. The GMX in middle-weight/165 is also a good choice. While there are some fine cup and core type bullets out there (like the Sierra GameKing/SST/Ballistic Tips), I think something a bit more sturdy will give you better performance if the excrement hits the fan. And while I like the Fusion round against deer and similar sized targets (zombies, gangsters, serial killers), it's just too soft for heavy game. If you should have a defensive encounter with a grizz or moose, a Partition/mono-type round will work much more consistently than a cup n' core. And they'd certainly do fine against two-legged varmints, too. Have fun on your adventures! Thanks for the thought(s) NH |
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Posted: 12/29/2016 2:36:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds a little light, but I will add it to the list. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Mk. 319, if you can find any. Good expansion on front half for wounding, solid copper back half penetrates better than M80 ball. All-purpose, and effective on pretty much everything. 130gr, works extremely well out of any barrel from 16" up. Reasonable accurate. Sounds a little light, but I will add it to the list. Mk 319, is basically a non bonded crappy version of the trophy bonded bear claw made for the military. It''s a great round for military use, but actualtrophy bonded bear claws will work better, and you can get them in 165 or 180gr. If you wanted the 308 to truly be a do all I'd say go heavy with 180gr, but since you have a separate bear/moose gun. 165gr is a great overall weight for everything else. |
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Posted: 12/29/2016 5:35:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mk 319, is basically a non bonded crappy version of the trophy bonded bear claw made for the military. It''s a great round for military use, but actualtrophy bonded bear claws will work better, and you can get them in 165 or 180gr. If you wanted the 308 to truly be a do all I'd say go heavy with 180gr, but since you have a separate bear/moose gun. 165gr is a great overall weight for everything else. I think I agree on the 165's, and really do like the idea of monolithic, I think I'll order some of those A Frames and the GMX and see if the gun likes them. |
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Posted: 12/29/2016 8:22:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Consider these:
10 FCP-SR Savage http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FCPSR http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/BAStealth Tikka Compact Tactical Rifle http://www.tikka.fi/rifles/tikka-t3x/t3x-compact-tactical-rifle Savage or a Tikka with about a 20 in barrel is a better choice than the ruger gunsight rifle these both shoot very well where the Ruger will not group nearly as well. If you must go Ruger go with the Ruger Precision Rifle http://ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/models.html the up side to the Ruger Precision Rifle is that it uses both styles of magazines the Accuracy International Mags OR the PMAGS. Barnes Bullets tipped 168 gr Note these are copper no lead and some areas do not allow lead. Everything I have shot with Barnes bullets the bullet has expanded very well and been very high quality. Really if you don't hunt and it's just for self defense from man or beast one rifle is plenty but accuracy is more important than other features and personally I would run something heavier than a .308 The best guns to stop a bear would be a 45-70 Marlin lever action Model 1895GBL or a .375 H&H but a .338 Win Mag in a Tikka or a 300 Win Mag or 300 WSM has a lot of knockdown. The general rule is don't go into bear country with less than a 30-06. ( The longer the barrel the higher the velocity.) I would use a Trijicon Accupoint scope with a Red illuminated post reticle probably the 1-4x |
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Posted: 12/29/2016 10:06:08 PM EDT
[#34]
The GSR is bought, I like it. The back up irons work good, the trigger is good, I added a KVP linear compensator and a 1-5x24 Weaver Dangerous game with a duplex reticle . The polymer mags are very nice easy to load and feed reliably with what I have shot through it to this point (147,150 ball, and 168 bthp), also the proprietary mags are an advantage in Canada, as AR pattern mags over 5 rounds could potentially be an issue.
The Alaskan model is also bought and the .375 Ruger ballistically is slightly superior to the H&H. |
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Posted: 12/30/2016 4:41:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
180gr. Nosler Partition or Swift A-Frame. This or 150gr. Nosler Partition Loaded near the high side for a bolt gun. |
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Posted: 12/30/2016 4:58:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This or 150gr. Nosler Partition Loaded near the high side for a bolt gun. I ordered some Hornady GMX 165gr, and Swift 165gr A Frames. The gun likes 168gr bthp FGMM, we'll see how it likes the 165's. I'm thinking I'll lose too much velocity in the 18.7" barrel to make the 180's valuable. But, we'll see at $2 a round for .308 I may not conduct extensive testing. |
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Posted: 1/2/2017 3:54:42 PM EDT
[#37]
180 grain Accubonds loaded warm.
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Posted: 1/3/2017 11:16:01 PM EDT
[#38]
I suggest the 150g GMX (or TSX) especially from that short barrel. Just think of it as a 200 grain bullet with 75% weight retention. I have shot 5 deer with the 150GMX with impact velocity 2500-2600fps with great penetration and modest expansion (based on exit wounds).
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Posted: 1/4/2017 12:44:38 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 1/4/2017 8:15:40 AM EDT
[#40]
I would not take my guns to Canada.
My aunt and uncle have a motorhome and make several trips a year around the US. They used to go to Canada and Alaska. A few years ago the Canadian LE searched and confiscated all their guns at a border crossing. He lost a couple/three nice guns he'd carried in/out of Canada several times over the years. The no longer travel to Canada or Alaska. Canada is not the USA (neither is California or New York, these days). |
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Posted: 1/4/2017 8:53:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would not take my guns to Canada. My aunt and uncle have a motorhome and make several trips a year around the US. They used to go to Canada and Alaska. A few years ago the Canadian LE searched and confiscated all their guns at a border crossing. He lost a couple/three nice guns he'd carried in/out of Canada several times over the years. The no longer travel to Canada or Alaska. Canada is not the USA (neither is California or New York, these days). I have friends who travel to Canada every year to hunt, and for the last several years they have had to obtain some paperwork from DHS that they provide the Canadian border agents, as well as US Customs on the return and they have had no problems. Not withstanding that, it is difficult to get to Alaska from Texas without going through Canada (unless you want to ferry which I do not), I understand there is a wide variance in laws by state and country and have made some effort to compensate for that in gun choices. But at the end of the day I would rather lose a gun or three to a petty tyrant somewhere than travel without them. |
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Posted: 1/8/2017 6:59:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Had a buddy take a decent sized Alaska bear with this stuff from 550 yards this fall from a Rem 700 16" gun:
DRT 150 gr .308 |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 6:08:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
That rifle will serve the all purpose category and targets could fall in a wide spectrum of self defense human or animal and all the conditions those can bring. I do not hunt. Be very careful what you put on import forms and what you say to the Customs/Immigration Officer in Canada. I can assure you that if you mention to a Canadian official that you are bringing in firearms for the purpose of protecting yourself from humans, you will have a very hard time. As odd as it may seem, the Canadian government does NOT view this as a valid reason to possess a firearm in Canada. |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 7:52:30 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Be very careful what you put on import forms and what you say to the Customs/Immigration Officer in Canada. I can assure you that if you mention to a Canadian official that you are bringing in firearms for the purpose of protecting yourself from humans, you will have a very hard time. As odd as it may seem, the Canadian government does NOT view this as a valid reason to possess a firearm in Canada. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That rifle will serve the all purpose category and targets could fall in a wide spectrum of self defense human or animal and all the conditions those can bring. I do not hunt. Be very careful what you put on import forms and what you say to the Customs/Immigration Officer in Canada. I can assure you that if you mention to a Canadian official that you are bringing in firearms for the purpose of protecting yourself from humans, you will have a very hard time. As odd as it may seem, the Canadian government does NOT view this as a valid reason to possess a firearm in Canada. I'm aware of that, but a valid and useful piece of information, thank you |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 9:11:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had a buddy take a decent sized Alaska bear with this stuff from 550 yards this fall from a Rem 700 16" gun: DRT 150 gr .308 That actually might be last on my list of .308 rounds I'd use for hunting anything except maybe coyotes. |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 1:44:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The sst is definitely a good round for deer as long as you keep velocity under 2600. Either choice will be fine for all around rifle bullets. I like Sierra Game Kings myself, but have run the hornady super with sst from a 30-06, ruined meat if I hit bone but was not bad for a clean double lung. |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 5:21:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I suggest the 150g GMX (or TSX) especially from that short barrel. Just think of it as a 200 grain bullet with 75% weight retention. I have shot 5 deer with the 150GMX with impact velocity 2500-2600fps with great penetration and modest expansion (based on exit wounds). My thoughts as well. For a shorter barrel it'd be good to keep some speed and make up penetration with the copper bullet rather than weight. If your were to haul around a 22" barrel I would say 180gr partitions or Aframes. |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 9:26:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That actually might be last on my list of .308 rounds I'd use for hunting anything except maybe coyotes. Well, it worked well on a really, really big coyote then... |
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Posted: 1/28/2017 6:58:54 PM EDT
[#49]
I've got A 16" Ruger Scout that does house duty loaded with mk318, sounds like you might want some overlap for your ammo choice though. I've never shot the 165 GMX but bet it would give good performance at close range on animals two legged or four.
Love my scout rifle and I'd like one of those .375's for no other reason than just because! Good Luck! |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 3:19:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, it worked well on a really, really big coyote then... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That actually might be last on my list of .308 rounds I'd use for hunting anything except maybe coyotes. Well, it worked well on a really, really big coyote then... Im actually really surprised his guide let him use that set up and allowed him to take a 550 yard shot with it. If he's an AK resident I'm shocked he though that it was a good idea to try. Infact, I have a hard time believing it at all. |
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