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Posted: 10/22/2016 1:53:28 PM EDT
[#1]
I stacked up on the 64g gd when it was on sale for $9.99.
I would think the ballistics with the 55 would be close to the 64 and better than any ball round for sd. |
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Posted: 10/22/2016 2:23:56 PM EDT
[#2]
As far as I am aware, nothing drastically outperforms M193 and is also close in price/round. Gotta spend more for large performance increases.
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Posted: 10/22/2016 2:57:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Wolf Gold performs on par with M193 and is very well priced. You can stack it deep.
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Posted: 10/22/2016 4:10:50 PM EDT
[#4]
I buy IMI 193 then reload the cases with 62 fusions. I figure either will work fine if the clowns show up.
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Posted: 10/22/2016 4:23:06 PM EDT
[#5]
All of the gold dots are goid options. I recently picked up some 55gr gold dot to use with my 1:14 barrel.
Another budget option for fragmenting designs is the 75gr Privi. |
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Posted: 10/22/2016 5:21:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Some of the best prices/variety I have found are at SGAmmo.com. PMC Bronze 55gr. FMJ for $309.99 on sale, regularly $329.99. Shipping is reasonable as well. I get great accuracy at 100yds and still holds well out to 200yds. I havent shot any further but SHTF will probly be closer than that anyway.
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Posted: 10/22/2016 6:41:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Looks like prices are starting to spike on some ammo. Some deals are still out there, but it appears to be getting tighter.
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Posted: 10/22/2016 8:35:40 PM EDT
[#8]
You'll be fine with the. 55gr GD. The low 60s seems to be the sweet spot for bonded loads but 55gr GD has excellent ballistics. Search Speer LE and check out the gel photos they post.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:18:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'll be fine with the. 55gr GD. The low 60s seems to be the sweet spot for bonded loads but 55gr GD has excellent ballistics. Search Speer LE and check out the gel photos they post. If only it were also boat-tail. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:52:32 AM EDT
[#10]
wolf gold
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:22:23 AM EDT
[#11]
223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel....
About .36 cents a round. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:23:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 2:31:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If only it were also boat-tail. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You'll be fine with the. 55gr GD. The low 60s seems to be the sweet spot for bonded loads but 55gr GD has excellent ballistics. Search Speer LE and check out the gel photos they post. If only it were also boat-tail. This isn't ammunition you'll be firing over 300yds and looking for less drag, it's a soft-point for crying out loud. If you want long-range stuff by MK262 clones. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 3:00:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 3:11:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. It's not the same projectile or velocity as T2. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 3:33:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. Provided He has a faster Twist. He didn't mention what He's running. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 3:35:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not the same projectile or velocity as T2. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. It's not the same projectile or velocity as T2. Projectile difference is irrelevant; T1, T1(c), and T2 all perform about the same. Only point to T2 was better full-auto feeding with M4 ramps. At self-defense range the velocity difference doesn't matter either. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 9:11:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Depends on how much you wanna purchase? I stick with mostly 55gr (for fun) and 75/77gr varieties for most everything else. I've got some BH 77gr TMK 5.56 and 5.56 T2 75gr Hornady as my PD choices currently
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Posted: 10/23/2016 9:29:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Guys, thanks so much for the replies, sorry for taking so long to respond but it has been a busy week. I have read your replies and feel comfortable with the Gold Dot 55 grain loads, however I am thinking of purchasing some M193 ball loads to supplement my Gold Dot's and for range ammo if prices go way up. I noticed a few of you mentioned Wolf Gold, I have heard good things about them but I wasn't aware they were loaded to M193 specs. If the stuff performs like M193, both in reliability and terminal performance, I would rather stock up on Wolf due to the cost savings.
By the way, I own a Colt 6920 and a Daniel Defense mid-length rifle (The model escapes my mind at the moment) and both have a 1:7 twist. I plan on buying some lowers and building out a few more AR's in the coming years. AR's with a 10.5 inch barrel in a pistol configuration, a M16A4 clone, a few more carbines that have a "pinned" 14.5 inch barrel, a MK-12 "like" DMR build and maybe a M16A1 retro build if I find the right parts. They will all be 1:7 twist barrels, except the M16A1 clone which I plan on building with a 1:12 inch barrel but they work well with 55 grain loads. I am also aware that I will probably have to invest in 69-77 grain loads for DMR build but that's for when I have more money... |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 9:32:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Honestly, I would like to get 3000 rounds stocked away, right now I only have 500 rounds of Federal M193 ball and maybe 200 rounds of Tula steel cased for the range. Again, terminal performance is important while keeping the price low.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 9:34:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, I would like to get 3000 rounds stocked away, right now I only have 500 rounds of Federal M193 ball and maybe 200 rounds of Tula steel cased for the range. Again, terminal performance is important while keeping the price low. Wolf Gold will be the most economical choice, I think I have 5-7K of it right now and always looking to free up some $$ to order some more. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:34:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guys, thanks so much for the replies, sorry for taking so long to respond but it has been a busy week. I have read your replies and feel comfortable with the Gold Dot 55 grain loads, however I am thinking of purchasing some M193 ball loads to supplement my Gold Dot's and for range ammo if prices go way up. I noticed a few of you mentioned Wolf Gold, I have heard good things about them but I wasn't aware they were loaded to M193 specs. If the stuff performs like M193, both in reliability and terminal performance, I would rather stock up on Wolf due to the cost savings. I think you're on the right track. 
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:59:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Projectile difference is irrelevant; T1, T1(c), and T2 all perform about the same. Only point to T2 was better full-auto feeding with M4 ramps. At self-defense range the velocity difference doesn't matter either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. It's not the same projectile or velocity as T2. Projectile difference is irrelevant; T1, T1(c), and T2 all perform about the same. Only point to T2 was better full-auto feeding with M4 ramps. At self-defense range the velocity difference doesn't matter either. Thanks Eric802. Everything Eric said is accurate. IMHO... The Hornady SM 75gr is a great "rainy day" round. |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 2:19:17 AM EDT
[#24]
The US military and the nuclear industry are using M855. Why can't you?
I'd stock Wolf Gold away by the case. If you have to have an AR for home defense... I'd probably use Wolf Gold still. It isn't quite up to par with M193 ammo, as it's 100-200 fps too low, but otherwise totally great stuff. Can be submerged for three weeks and fire without issue, very reliable, cycles easy, etc. |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 3:18:21 AM EDT
[#25]
The projectile is fine it's the case that gives me pause. I've had SM stick in the chamber requiring a rod to clear.
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Posted: 10/24/2016 10:09:25 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The US military and the nuclear industry are using M855. Why can't you? Because they have to, and we don't? |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 5:16:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because they have to, and we don't? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The US military and the nuclear industry are using M855. Why can't you? Because they have to, and we don't? QFT |
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Posted: 10/24/2016 11:14:38 PM EDT
[#28]
at .40 a round, 55gr GD is awfully nice. just have to purchase in quantities of 500, but we are talking about shtf and you want to stack deep,so win win.
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Posted: 10/25/2016 9:26:03 AM EDT
[#29]
i dont understand why WOLF wont load their 62g soft points that they load in the military classic steel cases in the brass they use for gold.
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Posted: 10/25/2016 9:29:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i dont understand why WOLF wont load their 62g soft points that they load in the military classic steel cases in the brass they use for gold. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 9:36:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because it's coming from two different plants in two different countries. Steel cased 62gr soft point loads are coming from Russia. Wolf Gold is coming from Taiwan. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: i dont understand why WOLF wont load their 62g soft points that they load in the military classic steel cases in the brass they use for gold. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 11:46:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. If the 64 gr Gold Dot (or the 62 gr fusion MSR) was available for a good price I would buy that, but only the 55gr Gold Dot is on sale now. Which would you guys choose for 11.5" barrel, SD/SHTF, 55gr Gold Dot or the 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel ? |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 11:50:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the 64 gr Gold Dot (or the 62 gr fusion MSR) was available for a good price I would buy that, but only the 55gr Gold Dot is on sale now. Which would you guys choose for 11.5" barrel, SD/SHTF, 55gr Gold Dot or the 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. If the 64 gr Gold Dot (or the 62 gr fusion MSR) was available for a good price I would buy that, but only the 55gr Gold Dot is on sale now. Which would you guys choose for 11.5" barrel, SD/SHTF, 55gr Gold Dot or the 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel ? |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 12:00:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the 64 gr Gold Dot (or the 62 gr fusion MSR) was available for a good price I would buy that, but only the 55gr Gold Dot is on sale now. Which would you guys choose for 11.5" barrel, SD/SHTF, 55gr Gold Dot or the 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. If the 64 gr Gold Dot (or the 62 gr fusion MSR) was available for a good price I would buy that, but only the 55gr Gold Dot is on sale now. Which would you guys choose for 11.5" barrel, SD/SHTF, 55gr Gold Dot or the 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel ? Not even a contest between the two, definitely GD. The fact that the Hornady is steel case completely preclude it from consideration for me. Even if the 75gr is brass cased I'd choose Gold Dot. SP/BSP are where it's at in .223... |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 12:05:42 PM EDT
[#35]
I was faced with the same decision and went with Wolf Gold. I do have a nice stash of 855 and 193 also. Even got a few boxes of Sierra Match King to test the accuracy capability of my builds.
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Posted: 10/25/2016 12:08:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the 64 gr Gold Dot (or the 62 gr fusion MSR) was available for a good price I would buy that, but only the 55gr Gold Dot is on sale now. Which would you guys choose for 11.5" barrel, SD/SHTF, 55gr Gold Dot or the 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. If the 64 gr Gold Dot (or the 62 gr fusion MSR) was available for a good price I would buy that, but only the 55gr Gold Dot is on sale now. Which would you guys choose for 11.5" barrel, SD/SHTF, 55gr Gold Dot or the 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel ? Gold Dot. It'll perform as advertised and well against any medium, whereas the heavy 75/77s only perform well within certain parameters. |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 12:48:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Wolf gold 55 FMJ/Black hills 77 combo
Or Hornady 55 SP for a one-round do-all |
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Posted: 10/25/2016 11:25:39 PM EDT
[#38]
I run Federal Lake City
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Posted: 10/26/2016 4:58:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gold Dot. It'll perform as advertised and well against any medium, whereas the heavy 75/77s only perform well within certain parameters. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel.... About .36 cents a round. Completely senseless with Gold Dot being .50 per round right now. Why? Nothing wrong with the terminal performance of the 75gr BTHP. If the 64 gr Gold Dot (or the 62 gr fusion MSR) was available for a good price I would buy that, but only the 55gr Gold Dot is on sale now. Which would you guys choose for 11.5" barrel, SD/SHTF, 55gr Gold Dot or the 223 REM 75GR Hornady BTHP Training Steel ? Gold Dot. It'll perform as advertised and well against any medium, whereas the heavy 75/77s only perform well within certain parameters. I followed the ARFCOM motto, "Get Both!" |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 5:05:12 PM EDT
[#40]
I just ordered 1800rds of M855A1. Looks like it will be my new go to SD/HD round. Should work very nice against anyone wearing AR500 plates.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 5:11:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just ordered 1800rds of M855A1. Looks like it will be my new go to SD/HD round. Should work very nice against anyone wearing AR500 plates. link? |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 6:02:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just ordered 1800rds of M855A1. Looks like it will be my new go to SD/HD round. Should work very nice against anyone wearing AR500 plates. Where did you possibly get that? |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 1:56:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just ordered 1800rds of M855A1. Looks like it will be my new go to SD/HD round. Should work very nice against anyone wearing AR500 plates. Where did you order that? |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 5:53:27 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just ordered 1800rds of M855A1. Looks like it will be my new go to SD/HD round. Should work very nice against anyone wearing AR500 plates. Lol...link? I gave you one... |
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Posted: 11/13/2016 11:37:36 PM EDT
[#45]
For SHTF its pretty simple to nail down reasonable requirements:
The most affordable round that will still do the job, ie decent effect and high reliability. Since for our purposes any rifle round has enough effect to be useful it comes down to buying the cheapest round that will function 100% with your rifles. For me that's any Barnaul made 62gr. ie Wolf MC, Brown Bear or Silver Bear in 62gr or Colt 62gr. These are all made on the same production line, other than the box the only differences are the coatings used. Shoots around 1.5 MOA from a benchrest out of a non chrome (melonited) 20 inch barrel.. YMMV ..have had 100% reliability in my LWRC, my SIg516 and my Troy. 100%, as in no failures ever in 15,000+ rds shot. I found any cheaper rounds such as Tula, will give me occasional issues... more expensive rounds give me no measurable reliability or accuracy benefit ( though in theory of course steel case will always be inferior to brass due to different coefficents of expansion and contraction... but this seems to make no measurable difference in my rifles. ......Interestingly had a FTF in my LWRC on Saturday in a course using a factory new brass round(!).... I would replace any rifle that needs only high end ammo to run reliably) |
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Posted: 11/14/2016 1:19:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For SHTF its pretty simple to nail down reasonable requirements: The most affordable round that will still do the job, ie decent effect and high reliability. Since for our purposes any rifle round has enough effect to be useful it comes down to buying the cheapest round that will function 100% with your rifles. For me that's any Barnaul made 62gr. ie Wolf MC, Brown Bear or Silver Bear in 62gr or Colt 62gr. These are all made on the same production line, other than the box the only differences are the coatings used. Shoots around 1.5 MOA from a benchrest out of a non chrome (melonited) 20 inch barrel.. YMMV ..have had 100% reliability in my LWRC, my SIg516 and my Troy. 100%, as in no failures ever in 15,000+ rds shot. I found any cheaper rounds such as Tula, will give me occasional issues... more expensive rounds give me no measurable reliability or accuracy benefit ( though in theory of course steel case will always be inferior to brass due to different coefficents of expansion and contraction... but this seems to make no measurable difference in my rifles. ......Interestingly had a FTF in my LWRC on Saturday in a course using a factory new brass round(!).... I would replace any rifle that needs only high end ammo to run reliably) I'd love to see some 1.5 MOA groups from the steel-cased ammo you're talking about. |
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Posted: 11/15/2016 12:36:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For SHTF its pretty simple to nail down reasonable requirements: The most affordable round that will still do the job, ie decent effect and high reliability. Since for our purposes any rifle round has enough effect to be useful it comes down to buying the cheapest round that will function 100% with your rifles. For me that's any Barnaul made 62gr. ie Wolf MC, Brown Bear or Silver Bear in 62gr or Colt 62gr. These are all made on the same production line, other than the box the only differences are the coatings used. Shoots around 1.5 MOA from a benchrest out of a non chrome (melonited) 20 inch barrel.. YMMV ..have had 100% reliability in my LWRC, my SIg516 and my Troy. 100%, as in no failures ever in 15,000+ rds shot. I found any cheaper rounds such as Tula, will give me occasional issues... more expensive rounds give me no measurable reliability or accuracy benefit ( though in theory of course steel case will always be inferior to brass due to different coefficents of expansion and contraction... but this seems to make no measurable difference in my rifles. ......Interestingly had a FTF in my LWRC on Saturday in a course using a factory new brass round(!).... I would replace any rifle that needs only high end ammo to run reliably) maybe all that steel cased ammo is taking its toll on your chamber? IMO, you should seriously consider NOT shooting that crap through your expensive barrels, for multiple reasons. steel makes a good training round for a dedicated blaster barrel though. i'm not sure steel jacketed bullets are the most effective projo for defending your life with either. and 62gr? what is the love fest with 855 and other fmj 62's? just about the worst bullet you can use. any quality made m193 clone ammo will be about your best bang for the buck on stock piling for the zombie apocalypse. |
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