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Posted: 9/18/2016 2:29:19 PM EDT
So, let's say all you reload for your Target AR is 40 grain Nosler tipped bullets and 75 grain Hornady BTHPs. You have to choose the better round for personnel defense in your 7.5" AR.
Which is better at ranges out to 50 yards? Sorry if 
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Posted: 9/18/2016 3:24:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Given those choices... My vote goes with the 75gr.
The 40gr is a varmint bullet with little meaningful penetration. |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 3:53:06 PM EDT
[#2]
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Given those choices... My vote goes with the 75gr. The 40gr is a varmint bullet with little meaningful penetration. would you consider 19 inches meaningful penetration? |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 3:55:24 PM EDT
[#3]
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Given those choices... My vote goes with the 75gr. The 40gr is a varmint bullet with little meaningful penetration. would you consider 19 inches meaningful penetration? My wife does! |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 4:01:33 PM EDT
[#4]
^ tech forum
not quite apples to apples but I would check your twist rate before going with the 75gr round |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 4:01:38 PM EDT
[#5]
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My wife does! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Given those choices... My vote goes with the 75gr. The 40gr is a varmint bullet with little meaningful penetration. would you consider 19 inches meaningful penetration? My wife does! Grrrr, I want to hit that obvious softball by confirming this.... but I wont 
Very interesting vid on that. Am I in before clear gel vs ballistic gel? Txl |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 4:12:19 PM EDT
[#6]
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Given those choices... My vote goes with the 75gr. The 40gr is a varmint bullet with little meaningful penetration. would you consider 19 inches meaningful penetration? In "Clear Ballistic Gel" .... a proven inaccurate ballistic media. |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 4:33:53 PM EDT
[#7]
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Given those choices... My vote goes with the 75gr. The 40gr is a varmint bullet with little meaningful penetration. would you consider 19 inches meaningful penetration? For starters, that isn't the 40 grain V-MAX in the video; it's the 55 grain V-MAX. Secondly, that video is another demonstration of why results from "Clear Ballistics" gel are pure BS. Professional testing using the scientific standard of 10% ordnance gelatin shows that the 40 grain V-MAX penetrates less than 6" and the 55 grain penetrates only 8"; both well below the FBI and IWBA penetration standard of 12" to 18" in bare 10% ordnance gel. 40 grain TAP (V-MAX) 
55 grain TAP (V-MAX) 
... |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 4:38:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Good info everyone. So, thinking the 75 BTHPs.
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Posted: 9/18/2016 4:40:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Molon, would the slower velocity of the pistol increase penetration due to lack of expansion energy?
Same as how some higher velocity pistol hollow points lose penetration at higher velocity due to rapid expansion? Txl |
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Posted: 9/18/2016 8:14:51 PM EDT
[#10]
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Molon, would the slower velocity of the pistol increase penetration due to lack of expansion energy? Txl Fired from an HK-53, with an 8.3" barrel, the 40 grain V-MAX penetrates less than 5" in bare 10% ordnance gel. The 40 grain V-MAX is one of the most piss-poor choices in 5.56mm/223 that a person could make for defending their life, or the lives of their loved ones. ... |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 6:14:06 PM EDT
[#11]
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Given those choices... My vote goes with the 75gr. The 40gr is a varmint bullet with little meaningful penetration. would you consider 19 inches meaningful penetration? clear gel====yeah no 
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Posted: 9/19/2016 6:35:50 PM EDT
[#12]
I really don't think you are going to get to fragmentation threshold on a 75gr with a 7.5".
Maybe look at the 62gr Fusion or Gold Dot. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 6:43:29 PM EDT
[#13]
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I really don't think you are going to get to fragmentation threshold on a 75gr with a 7.5". Maybe look at the 62gr Fusion or Gold Dot. Or a 55-65gr non-bonded soft point. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 6:53:32 PM EDT
[#14]
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Or a 55-65gr non-bonded soft point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I really don't think you are going to get to fragmentation threshold on a 75gr with a 7.5". Maybe look at the 62gr Fusion or Gold Dot. Or a 55-65gr non-bonded soft point. Yeah Hornady 55gr SP would be my choice after the Fusion. I asked Hornady they said it will expand down to 1800fps. Chopping block on YouTube got the Fusion to expand at 1700 and on TOS a guy reported the 62gr bonded avg. 1920fps in a 7.5". That should get you to 50. The 75gr needs like 2250 you are not going anywhere near that in that barrel even right at the muzzle. |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 7:01:14 PM EDT
[#15]
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Fired from an HK-53, with an 8.3" barrel, the 40 grain V-MAX penetrates less than 5" in bare 10% ordnance gel. The 40 grain V-MAX is one of the most piss-poor choices in 5.56mm/223 that a person could make for defending their life, or the lives of their loved ones. ... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Molon, would the slower velocity of the pistol increase penetration due to lack of expansion energy? Txl Fired from an HK-53, with an 8.3" barrel, the 40 grain V-MAX penetrates less than 5" in bare 10% ordnance gel. The 40 grain V-MAX is one of the most piss-poor choices in 5.56mm/223 that a person could make for defending their life, or the lives of their loved ones. ... Well said. But man it is awesome at blowing up watermelons! |
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Posted: 9/19/2016 11:32:46 PM EDT
[#16]
The 7.5" barrel is generally a poor choice in 5.56mm, however if it must be used I'd suggest the Blackhills 5.56mm 50gr TSX which will perform well in your extremely short barrel at short ranges.
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Posted: 9/20/2016 9:02:52 AM EDT
[#17]
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The 7.5" barrel is generally a poor choice in 5.56mm, however if it must be used I'd suggest the Blackhills 5.56mm 50gr TSX which will perform well in your extremely short barrel at short ranges. I'd suggest the regular 50gr TSX over the BH version, as the regular version has a lower threshold for expansion. |
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Posted: 9/20/2016 10:57:04 AM EDT
[#18]
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In "Clear Ballistic Gel" .... a proven inaccurate ballistic media. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Given those choices... My vote goes with the 75gr. The 40gr is a varmint bullet with little meaningful penetration. would you consider 19 inches meaningful penetration? In "Clear Ballistic Gel" .... a proven inaccurate ballistic media. Doesn't the clear gel give results that are fairly close to 10% OG regarding expansion and temp/perm cavity? Just gives weird penetration numbers. Kind of like water jugs give you a decent representation of expansion but penetration not so much. Is clear gel a legitimate replacement for ordnance? Not even close. But it's the next best thing for regular folks like us IMO. |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 12:46:12 PM EDT
[#19]
I'd go with the lightest bullet the pistol shoots well. A 75 grain bullet out of a 7.5" with standard powder meant for the 223 rifle would be a 22 magnum with a heavier bullet. A well built 40 grain that you could find a powder to get i moving at 2700 would be my chose. Velocity is what Stoner used as the greatest asset for the AR design, at under 2400 fps it's little more than a ice pick. I'd check the reloading manuals for 223 for a TC Contender or similar pistol would be a great place to start.
I always wondered how well H110 would preform in a pistol length barrel AR. It's standard powder for the 300 BO. |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 1:51:34 PM EDT
[#20]
OMG, NOT THIS AGAIN
varmint loads are for varmints. Use a SD load for SD. |
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Posted: 9/21/2016 6:22:56 PM EDT
[#21]
It's refreshing to see all the pleasant people are still here. I gave my opinion on what I have done loading many thousands of rounds of 223 in a 6 year period.. Along with that many days at the range with a crono and varying test media. I have done extensive research, use proven load data, many different powders and bullets. I have also had several conversations with a major who grew up with my oldest son and has turned 4 tours in the middle east and expressed his concerns with the shortcomings of the 14.5" M4. That is a whole page in itself from someone with first hand knowledge and why the bullet design has been changed instead of going with the 6,8 SPC (which would be my pick for a SBR, since it was designed for a SBR). This is what I base my opinions on, if you don't agree fine. I'm sure you have a firm basis of your opinion too. There a 3 things I know for certain, these will not over penetrate in a house, I would hate to be any creature that catches one and I would bet my life on them.
Might I also add I see no practical use for a 7.5" AR but some do. Roll your own and try what you can to make it work for you, but stick to proven load data from manufactures. Anyone who will take as gospel reloading data off a forum should defiantly keep up the umbrella liability insurance policy on their home owners insurance up to date. |
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Posted: 9/22/2016 8:13:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Thanks everyone.
I have many more options for ammo and firearms that make much more sense. Just curious if that was all I had access to...which would be better. |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 10:17:00 AM EDT
[#23]
You should really consider looking at the ballistics for some of the 62/64gr bonded stuff. Federal Fusion 62 still expands and penetrates well down to 1700 fps from some of the videos i've seen out on Youtube. I'm more than happy to use 55gr or 62/64gr bonded bullets out of my 7.5" as long as the range is 100yds and in.
ETA already posted above. But still inside conversational ranges, from what i've seen i feel well off with 55gr Speer Gold Dot coming out of a 7.5". |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 10:40:01 AM EDT
[#24]
I couldn't get full expansion of the 50gr TSX at 15yds with my 7.5 so I went to 45gr TSX and they worked great.
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Posted: 9/23/2016 11:32:32 AM EDT
[#25]
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I couldn't get full expansion of the 50gr TSX at 15yds with my 7.5 so I went to 45gr TSX and they worked great. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/glock2027/CIMG2123_zps4hnxjw6v.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/glock2027/4b1e86c3-6df5-4037-aae5-3e6f9ea8a4a3_zpsebhbg5rx.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/glock2027/CIMG2113_zpsxwhq5b85.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/glock2027/CIMG2112_zpsy3tk6mbs.jpg Very nice, thank you. |
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Posted: 9/23/2016 12:19:36 PM EDT
[#26]
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Very nice, thank you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I couldn't get full expansion of the 50gr TSX at 15yds with my 7.5 so I went to 45gr TSX and they worked great. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/glock2027/CIMG2123_zps4hnxjw6v.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/glock2027/4b1e86c3-6df5-4037-aae5-3e6f9ea8a4a3_zpsebhbg5rx.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/glock2027/CIMG2113_zpsxwhq5b85.jpg http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/glock2027/CIMG2112_zpsy3tk6mbs.jpg Very nice, thank you. Big +1 |
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Posted: 9/26/2016 3:24:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Really what it boils down to is how long would you fight with a base ball size hole on any part of your person. Not to mention the softball hydro logic shock wound. Micro shock
of instant energy transfer is my option. Yours may be something else. Bring what you have, the rest is BS.. |
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Posted: 9/26/2016 12:33:35 PM EDT
[#28]
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Really what it boils down to is how long would you fight with a base ball size hole on any part of your person. Not to mention the softball hydro logic shock wound. Micro shock of instant energy transfer is my option. Yours may be something else. Bring what you have, the rest is BS.. please dont kill this thread with your nonsense too. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 12:31:26 AM EDT
[#29]
This is almost getting fun. A pencil size hole through and through or a pencil size hole with everything within 8 to 10 inches of it turned into jello.
Seems you feel I'm just some yokel, well this yokel has dressed 70 deer, 12 hogs and a bear in the last 10 years. All shot with many different calibers, 30/30, 30/06, 35 rem, 243, 308, 444 marlin, 44 mag and 300 win mag and granted not a 223 but at least a dozen with a 243 with 90 grain core locs and at least 25 with a 300 win mag with 150 core locs. All shot with light bullets going very fas were all bang flops stave one. One deer was recovered with a flesh wound from the 300 and only made it 100 yards The hit was mid rear ham, exit other rear ham. Not one vital hit. but the bowling ball size exit said dead deer. BTW it was one of 3 my friend shot with a Rem 700 under a apple tree on a lease we had at the time. The deer was at a dead run after it's 2 pals were twitching on the ground. Has any of you seen the inside of a deer hit by a bullet going 30000 fps. If hit above the diagram the entire chest cavity is a med-evil soup. Keep up the good work fellas, I really hope none of us ever have to put it to use. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 2:20:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Done.
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