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Posted: 7/6/2016 6:05:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMI USA finally got back to me. I forwarded them pictures and info so they can get with their QC in Israel. Will post when I hear back Any word back from them yet? |
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Posted: 7/6/2016 10:30:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do not recall seeing the mentioned email above but just saw this post. I never had a single complaint about this ammo when I had it. We have a shipment coming in about 20 days of this same stuff, not sure what lot # it will be Thanks sam http://www.SGAmmo.com Well, I'm glad to know that. I can't wait to pick some up in a couple of weeks and test some primers myself. |
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Posted: 7/7/2016 1:00:15 AM EDT
[#3]
No word yet. I just sent another email asking for an update
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Posted: 7/20/2016 11:45:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Finally spoke with their guys in Israel- organized through their US office. They are concerned and want to rectify this. They are getting the spent cases with issues along with the remainder of the ammo unfired in this lot ( they will replace with a different lot ) I'm curious what they come up with. Will update as I get more info
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Posted: 7/20/2016 11:50:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Finally spoke with their guys in Israel- organized through their US office. They are concerned and want to rectify this. They are getting the spent cases with issues along with the remainder of the ammo unfired in this lot ( they will replace with a different lot ) I'm curious what they come up with. Will update as I get more info Thanks for update |
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Posted: 7/21/2016 1:38:13 PM EDT
[#6]
This is what I get for not reading the Ammo section in a while. Was just in Cabela's yesterday and purchased five boxes of this stuff, same lot number.
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Posted: 7/21/2016 1:41:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what I get for not reading the Ammo section in a while. Was just in Cabela's yesterday and purchased five boxes of this stuff, same lot number. well then get out there and shoot some it and let us know... |
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Posted: 7/21/2016 5:41:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
well then get out there and shoot some it and let us know... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is what I get for not reading the Ammo section in a while. Was just in Cabela's yesterday and purchased five boxes of this stuff, same lot number. well then get out there and shoot some it and let us know... No kidding. No issues here. Have fired over 120rds of iit so far. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 1:47:32 AM EDT
[#9]
I have just run through 200 rounds of IMI 77gr 00229/F and no problems to report.
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Posted: 7/22/2016 10:31:45 AM EDT
[#10]
Used another 160 rds of this lot this week with no blown primers or pressure signs. I hope your incident was an isolated incident.
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Posted: 7/26/2016 5:29:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Update - all remaining ammo from this lot sent back to IMI along with a couple cases with blown primers. I think they are sending back to Israel for their engineers to check out. They are supposedly sending me replacement along with reimbursing for shippi cost back to them ( they only have a FedEx account and can't ship live ammo on FedEx - as per IMI rep in MD)
There is also another post with similar issues concerning IMI 5.56 M193 55gr. I'm in contact with that member and have already given IMI a heads up I will be putting him in touch with the IMI reps I'm dealing with |
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Posted: 8/5/2016 1:56:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Shot some 77 grain IMI lot #00229F today and randomly picked it out of a 500 round case. It gave light ejector swipes on some cases and light extractor pulls on most all cases in one particular rifle. It has a new and unfired (but clean) 14.5" Colt govt. profile barrel. All primers looked ok and none were flattened beyond normal or backed out. This rifle is the only one that ejected cases out at 4:00. All others ejected at 2-3:00, where they normally eject at 3-4:00 with my handloads. This ammo is definitely higher pressure than my handloads but still acceptable. Outside temps were about 85 degrees. I used an Oehler 35P chronograph.
The other barrels, chambers and velocities I shot- Bushmaster 7 twist carbine length gas, 16", 5.56 chamber-2720 fps (control lot #00235D gave 2740 fps) Krieger 7.7 twist mid-gas, 16", Wylde chamber-2705 fps WOA (Wilson) 7 twist mid-gas, 16", Wylde chamber-2726 fps Suppressed Colt 7 twist SOCOM, carbine length gas, 14.5", 5.56 chamber-2612 fps Colt govt profile, carbine length gas, 7 twist 14.5 ", 5.56 chamber-2606 fps (this barrel showed the pressure signs but I think it is more the rifle than the ammo) FNMI govt profile, rifle length gas, 7 twist, 20", 5.56 chamber-2762 fps Long story short, my ammo seems to be ok but I am hesitant to buy any more. |
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Posted: 8/5/2016 5:17:23 PM EDT
[#13]
It is being sent back to Israel for their engineers to do some testing on remaining lot and look at recovered brass/primers that showed issues
I'm seeing other issues with IMI M193 from another member on this board, along with some 7.62 X 51 issues ( tracer ammo mixed in regular ball) I am following up with these members and IMI to sort through all issues |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 2:37:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Even Federal Gold Medal ammo has experienced the same problem in the past in some rifles.
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Posted: 8/11/2016 4:03:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even Federal Gold Medal ammo has experienced the same problem in the past in some rifles. What was the outcome? |
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Posted: 8/14/2016 4:31:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is being sent back to Israel for their engineers to do some testing on remaining lot and look at recovered brass/primers that showed issues I'm seeing other issues with IMI M193 from another member on this board, along with some 7.62 X 51 issues ( tracer ammo mixed in regular ball) I am following up with these members and IMI to sort through all issues Thank you for following up on this with IMI!! |
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Posted: 8/14/2016 11:03:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shot some 77 grain IMI lot #00229F today and randomly picked it out of a 500 round case. It gave light ejector swipes on some cases and light extractor pulls on most all cases in one particular rifle. It has a new and unfired (but clean) 14.5" Colt govt. profile barrel. All primers looked ok and none were flattened beyond normal or backed out. This rifle is the only one that ejected cases out at 4:00. All others ejected at 2-3:00, where they normally eject at 3-4:00 with my handloads. This ammo is definitely higher pressure than my handloads but still acceptable. Outside temps were about 85 degrees. I used an Oehler 35P chronograph. The other barrels, chambers and velocities I shot- Bushmaster 7 twist carbine length gas, 16", 5.56 chamber-2720 fps (control lot #00235D gave 2740 fps) Krieger 7.7 twist mid-gas, 16", Wylde chamber-2705 fps WOA (Wilson) 7 twist mid-gas, 16", Wylde chamber-2726 fps Suppressed Colt 7 twist SOCOM, carbine length gas, 14.5", 5.56 chamber-2612 fps Colt govt profile, carbine length gas, 7 twist 14.5 ", 5.56 chamber-2606 fps (this barrel showed the pressure signs but I think it is more the rifle than the ammo) FNMI govt profile, rifle length gas, 7 twist, 20", 5.56 chamber-2762 fps Long story short, my ammo seems to be ok but I am hesitant to buy any more. i wouldnt worry. i have this same lot and shot without issues and have some of the IMI m193 suspect lot and fired it without issues. has anyone else been able to reproduce the problem with razor 77gr or the m193? |
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Posted: 8/20/2016 6:21:43 PM EDT
[#18]
I am running low on CBC 77grain which is what I have been using in 20 inch Wylde chamber Lothar Walther 1:8 twist barrel.
Do any of you guys see a problem using IMI Razor Core in a Wylde chamber? Depending on temperature the CBC is only needing 37 MOA come up for 1,000 yard zero. |
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Posted: 8/20/2016 6:35:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am running low on CBC 77grain which is what I have been using in 20 inch Wylde chamber Lothar Walther 1:8 twist barrel. Do any of you guys see a problem using IMI Razor Core in a Wylde chamber? Depending on temperature the CBC is only needing 37 MOA come up for 1,000 yard zero. Not sure when or if any CBC is going to show up, so was looking at the Razor, but now not sure.. maybe if SGA gets more in with a different lot number.. |
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Posted: 8/25/2016 5:49:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Just figured I'd post up some more data here, I was shooting the same lot a weekend ago and let the ammo bake in the sunlight for awhile, 86* weather.
Using a magnetospeed v3 chronograph I had the ammo spike from 2780s (5rd avg) to 2880s from an 18" barrel! Blackhills did not exhibit this behavior. I'll have to do more testing but I have not noticed this before. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 12:54:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just figured I'd post up some more data here, I was shooting the same lot a weekend ago and let the ammo bake in the sunlight for awhile, 86* weather. Using a magnetospeed v3 chronograph I had the ammo spike from 2780s (5rd avg) to 2880s from an 18" barrel! Blackhills did not exhibit this behavior. I'll have to do more testing but I have not noticed this before. that seems like pretty pertinent info! did you notice any primer flatness changes in those spiked rounds? |
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Posted: 8/27/2016 2:49:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that seems like pretty pertinent info! did you notice any primer flatness changes in those spiked rounds? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just figured I'd post up some more data here, I was shooting the same lot a weekend ago and let the ammo bake in the sunlight for awhile, 86* weather. Using a magnetospeed v3 chronograph I had the ammo spike from 2780s (5rd avg) to 2880s from an 18" barrel! Blackhills did not exhibit this behavior. I'll have to do more testing but I have not noticed this before. that seems like pretty pertinent info! did you notice any primer flatness changes in those spiked rounds? I couldn't tell any difference in primers, the only change I found on the brass was a heavier case head swipe. If I can find the brass I'll post up some pics. I'm also going to go out sometime soon and see if It's repeatable, although I don't believe it was a fluke. |
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Posted: 8/31/2016 11:11:09 AM EDT
[#23]
UPDATE 8-31-16
IMI is sending me new ammo. They are supposedly sending me a little more then I returned to them for my troubles- will see when it arrives The ammo in question is still waiting at IMI's US office to go back to Israel. They are awaiting ITAR clearance from the State Dept which I'm told can take several months. They did send me a check to cover shipping the ammo back to their US office I know there were some similar issues with a lot of IMI M193- I put the OP in contact with IMI and haven't heard anymore / not in a position to be uodated. Maybe he can post a status update here or in his thread? |
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Posted: 10/11/2016 1:41:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Updates?
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Posted: 10/13/2016 12:38:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
UPDATE 8-31-16 IMI is sending me new ammo. They are supposedly sending me a little more then I returned to them for my troubles- will see when it arrives The ammo in question is still waiting at IMI's US office to go back to Israel. They are awaiting ITAR clearance from the State Dept which I'm told can take several months. They did send me a check to cover shipping the ammo back to their US office I know there were some similar issues with a lot of IMI M193- I put the OP in contact with IMI and haven't heard anymore / not in a position to be uodated. Maybe he can post a status update here or in his thread? Ummm, aren't you the OP? 
And I second the "any updates?" |
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Posted: 10/13/2016 5:35:38 AM EDT
[#26]
No updates from IMI. As posted previously from IMI, will take months before going back to Israel ( waiting on ITAR approval ) before the engineers there can start testing
I am the OP for the issues with 77 gr razor core. I am NOT the OP for the issues with the 5.56 M193 ammo- that is someone else that I put in touch with my POC at IMI . There is a different thread for that |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 10:49:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Picked up a 500 case of the 77gr Razor Core a few months ago. After shooting about half of it, I've had a bunch of blown primers and other pressure sign. I've used this ammo (different lots) in the past and never had any issues whatsoever in my Mk12 Mod 1. After first noticing this, I went over the rifle, cleaned out chamber really well, etc. Again, blown primers. Wanted to try some other ammo, so I shot up the last of my CBC 77gr and half a box of Black Hills 5.56 Nato spec 77 OTM. These all shot well with no signs of pressure. Looks like my lot of 77gr Razor Core has some issues as well. Anyone else??
OP- thanks for the updates. I might save the rest of this lot and send it back.. LOT 00225/G 
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Posted: 10/28/2016 11:57:54 PM EDT
[#28]
I have a pile of 77 Gr razor core. Shot my first 20 with no issues. Lot 0239.
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Posted: 10/29/2016 8:37:09 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Picked up a 500 case of the 77gr Razor Core a few months ago. After shooting about half of it, I've had a bunch of blown primers and other pressure sign. I've used this ammo (different lots) in the past and never had any issues whatsoever in my Mk12 Mod 1. After first noticing this, I went over the rifle, cleaned out chamber really well, etc. Again, blown primers. Wanted to try some other ammo, so I shot up the last of my CBC 77gr and half a box of Black Hills 5.56 Nato spec 77 OTM. These all shot well with no signs of pressure. Looks like my lot of 77gr Razor Core has some issues as well. Anyone else??
OP- thanks for the updates. I might save the rest of this lot and send it back.. LOT 00225/G http://i.imgur.com/RKG8psLh.jpg As a reloader those cases are very concerning. Not a chance in hell I'd be shooting that stuff. Better bullets than the 77 SMK out there anyway IMO. |
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Posted: 10/29/2016 10:06:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Anybody else with problems with lot 00225G? I just ordered some from SGammo.
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Posted: 10/29/2016 1:02:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Well that sucks ! I just got a case this week same lot# and my other case that I have also same lot# anybody else have problems with LOT 00225/G
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Posted: 10/29/2016 1:42:53 PM EDT
[#32]
I just got a case of it too. I thought they were over the problems.
Cheap ammo is cheap. 
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Posted: 10/29/2016 2:33:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a reloader those cases are very concerning. Not a chance in hell I'd be shooting that stuff. Better bullets than the 77 SMK out there anyway IMO. I agree, the pressure signs are concerning. I've always thought these IMI 77s were pretty hot, even previous lots I've used. Last time I checked, I think they were averaging 2815+ fps out of my 18" Douglas (suppressed). Up until now, I've never had them blowing primers like this. Maybe a few almost flattened primers and case head swipes here and there. There may be better bullets than the 77 SMK out there, but they group extremely well out of my particular barrel, so I'm sticking with them.. maybe just atop my own handloads from here on out. |
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Posted: 10/29/2016 2:47:34 PM EDT
[#34]
I think SGammo reads this thread. Can you comment on any reported problems with 225G, SG? Thanks.
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Posted: 10/29/2016 2:53:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Lot 00239F has been great for me
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Posted: 10/29/2016 4:35:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lot 00239F has been great for me Me too. Great ammo and the one my 1:7 barrel likes best. |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 8:06:35 PM EDT
[#37]
I think this thread has had a beneficial effect on amno suppliers. SGA identifies lot number. 00225/G.
Target Sports and Cabellas do not ID lot # that I could find. |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 8:48:29 PM EDT
[#38]
May or may not matter...
In my experience, IMI ammo is loaded to full power/velocity Mil Spec. It is 5.56 and is designed to be fired in a mil spec 5.56 chamber. I burned through a lot of it some years back and it was good ammo but was not tollerant of any variation in chamber or gas system. It ran great in my Colt factory 14.4 inch gun. It was giving pressure signs in my home built Recce rifle with a CLE chamber. Keep in mind...unless you have gauged it, it may or may not actually be the chamber that is marked on the barrel. YMMV, just food for thought. |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 11:47:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Anyone had issues with the IMI 69 otm? I plan to pick up 1000 rounds this week since I'm stocked up on plinking ammo and my guns love most 69 otm.
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Posted: 10/31/2016 9:58:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone had issues with the IMI 69 otm? I plan to pick up 1000 rounds this week since I'm stocked up on plinking ammo and my guns love most 69 otm. I'd go with ADI Outback 69gr SMK. Super accurate and never any trouble out of ADI at all. |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 10:50:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Does IMI repeat lot #'s year after year?
I have a few cases from a few years ago (head stamp is '13) but the Lot # is 00235/D. They were purchased back a few years when this load first came out. The few hundred rounds that I have shot all worked great with no issued. Are the problem (suspected) lots of this ammo from 2016 or some previous year? |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 11:14:47 PM EDT
[#42]
SGAMMO has a post from Sept. 20 in their industry forum regarding razorcore that I had not previously seen. The basics are razorcore is hot, some rifles have "pre-existing conditions" making them more prone to failure with razorcore, this is not symptomatic of any specific razorcore lot, and this is not solely a characteristic of razorcore; any hot ammo has risks. This seems like a fair statement to me.
Then my question for the industry is, can primers be attached to the case in a more secure manner that doesn't significantly impede manufacturing, significantly increase cost, and prevent easy primer removal for reloading. I'm guessing they've already said no. Is Berdan the economical answer to primers popping out and reloading is just very difficult? |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 12:52:19 AM EDT
[#43]
I'm not buying SGs post. My issues occurred in colt and LMT M4s- all very low round count rifles and several of each. No issues with 75 gr hirnady or BH MK262 in these rifles Other lots of same IMI fired in these and other ( similar ) rifles with no issues
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Posted: 11/1/2016 10:38:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not buying SGs post. My issues occurred in colt and LMT M4s- all very low round count rifles and several of each. No issues with 75 gr hirnady or BH MK262 in these rifles Other lots of same IMI fired in these and other ( similar ) rifles with no issues i'd believe them. i have barrels that have no problems with both IMI types that are popping primers (77 razor and m193) and i have barrels that wont tollerate it. i'd agree that some chambers are not cut to mil spec dimensions. probably not intentionally but due to wore out chamber reamers. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 7:37:56 PM EDT
[#45]
I could shoot it all through my bolt action.
If it's loaded that hot, it'll be smokin' from a 26" bolt gun. 
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Posted: 11/5/2016 9:58:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Is 77 grain lot number 00229/F the only IMI that has shown excessive pressure?
I have a Wylde 1:8 chamber and wanted to stock up on long range ammo but like many of us here are a little gunshy of doing so without checking lot numbers in our rifles first. |
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Posted: 11/5/2016 10:35:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Also possibly 225G. See upwards 10 or so posts.
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Posted: 11/6/2016 4:27:29 AM EDT
[#48]
I'm about to order some of this to try out of my 1:8 barrels, they have all ran fine with hot ammo so I'll report back if I have pressure signs.
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Posted: 11/7/2016 12:56:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Zero issues with the lot 00239/F That's good to hear. |
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Posted: 11/7/2016 8:48:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Well..... Not the same ammo, but same issues. I ran a two day tactical rifle course and had three blown primers with IMI 69 gr. Razor core, out of 600 rounds. I'm running it out of a Daniel defense contract barreled MK18 suppressed and unsuppresed. Lot # 00217/G. I have 1000 rounds left of the ammo, same lot. I wish I had kept the brass, but it was a pretty intense course with dark room shooting. I wasnt able to get my hands on the brass as I had to egress after the malfunctions. Got pretty good at pulling the mangled primers out of the barrel extension though.
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